Official Trade Thread - Part XLII

[payitforward]

You're probably right. Yet, a contract is an agreement between parties. One side can't simply fail to fulfill.

But my guess is there will be some way out of this problem found.

[Ruzious]

They can simply not pay him. If he wants to take them to court, we can see how this adjudicates. The answer won't be simple.

&, here too, we get into the business of "killing the goose that lays the golden eggs." I wouldn't call this a scenario with a big upside for the players' association, would you? The guy has said, "I will never play for you again." Only... I still want my $33m? I don't think so.

With respect, I think it would be the players union that would take Philly to court. And that would be material.

Not to mention, Philly is in the business of competing to win an NBA championship this season; not so much in the business of trying to teach lessons to players who don't want to be there. At some point this season, they'll trade him.

[nate33]

Been looking around at ways to alleviate our log jam at PF. Ideally we trade a PF for a true SF.

One team that interests me as a trading partner is Golden State. They have a bunch of SF's (Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody, Juan Toscano-Anderson, plus veterans Iguadola and Otto Porter) but have very few true PF's except Draymond (who will mostly play center this year) and Bjelica.

Would they be interested in trading one of their young SF's for one of our young PF's?

Ideally, we trade Rui for Kuminga. Rui is really a good fit for them as a strong, athletic and defensively versatile forward who has 2 years of seasoning and will be useful for the remaining championship window of Curry, Draymond and Klay. Kuminga is a raw 19-year-old who has star potential, but in the distant future.

Another possibility is Avdija for Moody. Avdija would thrive in Golden State's passing and cutting system, and Moody is the 3 and D wing we lack. I'm not sure I want to give up on the higher ceiling of Avdija for the higher floor of Moody though.

I'd also trade Avdija for Kuminga.

[payitforward]

I wouldn't trade Avdija for Moody. You don't mention a Rui for Moody deal, but I'll note it just to complete the picture you were drawing. I wouldn't do that deal either.

OTOH, I doubt they'd give us Kuminga for either Rui or Deni straight up. What would/could we give along with Rui to make a deal for Kuminga work?

Rui plus Todd for Kuminga? Seems unlikely....

Rui plus Kispert? (makes me wonder... what if we'd taken Sengun? Would they have given Kuminga for Rui plus him? Or, just Rui plus the #15 pick?)

Alternatively, would we give them both Rui & Deni for Kuminga & Moody? &, vice versa, would that deal interest them?

[nate33]

I wouldn't trade Avdija for Moody. You don't mention a Rui for Moody deal, but I'll note it just to complete the picture you were drawing. I wouldn't do that deal either.

OTOH, I doubt they'd give us Kuminga for either Rui or Deni straight up. What would/could we give along with Rui to make a deal for Kuminga work?

Rui plus Todd for Kuminga? Seems unlikely....

Rui plus Kispert? (makes me wonder... what if we'd taken Sengun? Would they have given Kuminga for Rui plus him? Or, just Rui plus the #15 pick?)

Alternatively, would we give them both Rui & Deni for Kuminga & Moody? &, vice versa, would that deal interest them?

Yeah, generally speaking, it's really hard to engineer a trade involving first-year or second-year players because everyone always overvalues the upside of their guys.

[DCZards]

We ain’t getting Kuminga. His upside is huge…and that was apparent during summer league play. Kid has a lot of Giannis in him.

I liked Moody prior to the draft. He was one of the best 3pt shooters in the draft and looks to me like a prototypical 3&D. I’d probably trade either Deni or Rui for Moody.

[Ruzious]

We ain’t getting Kuminga. His upside is huge…and that was apparent during summer league play. Kid has a lot of Giannis in him.

I liked Moody prior to the draft. He was one of the best 3pt shooters in the draft and looks to me like a prototypical 3&D. I’d probably trade either Deni or Rui for Moody.

I could be completely wrong, but I don't think there's much chance Kuminga turns out anything like Giannis. He's much smaller and - at least from what I saw - doesn't see the floor anywhere near as well. Like Giannis, he's not much of a shooter. Sure, he'll add some weight, but I'd guess he'll end up maybe 6'8 and 225ish and just solid length - nothing like Giannis'. Giannis was also much smaller when drafted, but he was the exception - not the rule - as far as growing. And Kuminga really didn't do particularly well in the G League - didn't shoot well, rebounded just ok, had just ok defensive stats, and a bad +/-. Granted, he was 18, but I think he should spend most of next season in the G League. I do like Moody - seems like a good solid player but without all-star potential.

[Ruzious]

I wouldn't trade Avdija for Moody. You don't mention a Rui for Moody deal, but I'll note it just to complete the picture you were drawing. I wouldn't do that deal either.

OTOH, I doubt they'd give us Kuminga for either Rui or Deni straight up. What would/could we give along with Rui to make a deal for Kuminga work?

Rui plus Todd for Kuminga? Seems unlikely....

Rui plus Kispert? (makes me wonder... what if we'd taken Sengun? Would they have given Kuminga for Rui plus him? Or, just Rui plus the #15 pick?)

Alternatively, would we give them both Rui & Deni for Kuminga & Moody? &, vice versa, would that deal interest them?

Yeah, generally speaking, it's really hard to engineer a trade involving first-year or second-year players because everyone always overvalues the upside of their guys.

Exactly. And it's sometimes viewed as an admission of a mistake - which people just don't like to do - especially when it comes to their jobs. It's almost better to replace GM's every few years, so the new one isn't beholden to the mistakes of the old one.

[payitforward]

There needs to be a period every year when the players on a team would be able to get together & put the GM up for trade.

You know... if you had a good one, you get someone else's GM plus a couple of up-and-coming young guys in their FO. Like that.

Of course, if your FO really sucked, you'd say "I'll give you my GM & 2 assistant coaches for the guy who manages your locker room."

It'd be like the Roman holiday that was called Saturnalia, where masters & slaves changed places for a week or so....

[CntOutSmrtCrazy]

Embiid has had enough Klutch leaks.

[pcbothwel]

"Is Due" is the key word. Philly isnt paying him a damn thing. They'll take him to arbitration and draw this out until he is traded.

Show me the provision under which they would be able to withhold the second part of the payment.

Per CBA they can fine him for missed practices and 1/145th of his base compensation for each exhibition, regular season game or playoff game.

The 76ers are starting camp out today and have their first preseason game October 5th.

That’s a max 4 practices missed before he is die another $8.5 million,and based on the CBA I don’t see what Philadelphia can do but fine him for missed practices up until that point.

Told ya

Watch on YouTube

[queridiculo]

"Is Due" is the key word. Philly isnt paying him a damn thing. They'll take him to arbitration and draw this out until he is traded.

Show me the provision under which they would be able to withhold the second part of the payment.

Per CBA they can fine him for missed practices and 1/145th of his base compensation for each exhibition, regular season game or playoff game.

The 76ers are starting camp out today and have their first preseason game October 5th.

That’s a max 4 practices missed before he is die another $8.5 million,and based on the CBA I don’t see what Philadelphia can do but fine him for missed practices up until that point.

Told ya

Watch on YouTube

There's really not much of a difference between what I said and what is happening.

The 76ers still paid the $8.25 million, but they simply put in escrow and will use to satisfy the fines that will accumulate.

[payitforward]

They put the money in escrow, which means they didn't pay him. I think you may have to recognize being incorrect on this occasion, queridiculo. Believe me, I know how difficult that is!

[queridiculo]

They put the money in escrow, which means they didn't pay him. I think you may have to recognize being incorrect on this occasion, queridiculo. Believe me, I know how difficult that is!

They put the money in escrow hoping they won't have to pay him.

That's quite a bit different than a flat out refusal to pay him or the assertion that the Sixers won't have to pay him.

Arbitration will determine whether my take was incorrect, and based on what is known about the various failure to render services clauses in the CBA I still fully expect that the Sixers will be forced to pay the remainder of the salary minus any fines accrued up to that point.

[payitforward]

this is not worth much more slicing/dicing, & it certainly isn't material for an argument. But...

I didn't (would never) make "the assertion that the Sixers won't have to pay him." Nor did I mention "a flat out refusal to pay him."

Nor did they "...put the money in escrow hoping they won't have to pay him." In fact, I rather imagine they hope he comes back to the team, & the do have to pay him.

Meanwhile, they didn't pay him. They put the money in escrow instead of paying him.

[payitforward]

Here's what I did say:

They can simply not pay him. If he wants to take them to court, we can see how this adjudicates. The answer won't be simple.

&, here too, we get into the business of "killing the goose that lays the golden eggs." I wouldn't call this a scenario with a big upside for the players' association, would you? The guy has said, "I will never play for you again." Only... I still want my $33m? I don't think so.

...& that's how it's going down. Have you read that Simmons is taking them to court to get his $8m payment? I didn't think so....

[payitforward]

Here's what you wrote:

Show me the provision under which they would be able to withhold the second part of the payment.....

They withheld the the second part of the payment. Are you really sure, good buddy, that you want to claim that you got this one right?

...a max 4 practices missed before he is die another $8.5 million,and based on the CBA I don’t see what Philadelphia can do but fine him for missed practices up until that point.

Is that what they did?

Again... are you really sure you want to make a point of somehow being "right" despite the above? Nah, I didn't think so....

[queridiculo]

Here's what you wrote:

Show me the provision under which they would be able to withhold the second part of the payment.....

They withheld the the second part of the payment. Are you really sure, good buddy, that you want to claim that you got this one right?

...a max 4 practices missed before he is die another $8.5 million,and based on the CBA I don’t see what Philadelphia can do but fine him for missed practices up until that point.

Is that what they did?

Again... are you really sure you want to make a point of somehow being "right" despite the above? Nah, I didn't think so....

I am not claiming I am right, I am saying it's still up in the air and there is a chance an arbitrator will rule that they will have to make the second payment.

[payitforward]

That is certainly correct. Nor, from my side, would I claim that if "an arbitrator" (i.e. someone put in place by terms of the CBA, which also granted "binding" power to such an arbitrator) came to a decision -- any decision, in favor of either party -- that either party would fail to act on that decision.

Then again, nobody would make that claim. & in fact, nobody did make it.

However, that was not what you were claiming, is it? Not close for that matter. You can read your own posts and admit to that, can't you?

Or can you not have been mistaken? Wrong? Is that not allowed? Even though those words are such anodyne descriptors?

I can illustrate what I mean quite easily by using my own case. When Chandler Hutchison came into the league in '18, I thought he was likely to become quite a solid player. I believe I said so at the time.

I was mistaken. Wrong. Now, come on, mon cher ami, join the party. It only hurts for a little while!

[gambitx777]

What are they chances Ben Simmons is to k solid in his resolve. His pride fully in control and he is perfectly willing to light 30 plus mill on fire.

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