Patrick Williams out 4-6 weeks UPDATE since Sept 15

[CaPiTanAK]

Mild to moderate ankle sprain. Just mild to moderate activity with rest/icing/heat/Ibuprofen will get that ankle 100% soon.

Basically, nobody in the medical community cares. Non-story.

[chefo]

I'm actually not losing any sleep over PaW missing some time... and potentially having to earn back his starting spot. This team is built to compete now.

Patrick may have a bright future, but he was a high minute -7 net player on a -0.9 team. Yeah, I know young guys don't do well, but as we have discussed ad nauseum, the Bulls did him no favors starting him and asking him to defend the other team's best player (because he couldn't) and sit on the wing, picking his nose for much of the time on O.

He wasn't good enough on D, or active enough on O, to make any kind of positive impact most games in shows both in the raw and advanced numbers. Again, super-young, but with these guys, it's better not to project too far into the future because who the hell knows if they'll pan out. If he has another stinker of a season on a good, playoff-bound Bulls team, how long before we start calling for him to be moved while other teams still believe he has some upside?

[d boy gentleman]

Huh, I figured it was amputated by now.

That would have been with the old medical staff

They would have amputated his arm for a sprained ankle

No, they would have recommended a triple bypass for a sprained ankle

[madvillian]

Mild to moderate ankle sprain. Just mild to moderate activity with rest/icing/heat/Ibuprofen will get that ankle 100% soon.

Basically, nobody in the medical community cares. Non-story.

it was bizarre the headline was "severe" like it was the dreaded high ankle sprain and timetable would be 8-10 weeks and not 4-6 at worst. Sound like Pat might miss a few games at most and at least is able to start jogging already.

[HomoSapien]

Huh, I figured it was amputated by now.

That would have been with the old medical staff

They would have amputated his arm for a sprained ankle

Would have preventatively taken Zach's arm too, just to be safe.

[gobullschi]

Not sure if anyone caught the Thaddeus Young interview on the Gimme the Hot Sauce podcast, but he specifically talked about how the Bulls playing Patrick as a power forward is a mistake that will hurt his development.

He didn’t get into the details though.

[WookieOnRitalin]

Imo, they are going to tape the hell out of his ankle and have him on the floor for walkthroughs and shooting. What he misses in camp won’t be too terrible. Its not like he is in a coma.

This is actually not with conventional wisdom these days. Taping is beginning to work its way out of most protocols for how to handle sprains.

They may put him in a boot (he probably is already in one) and he will likely be able to do shooting and walkthroughs without any support or a limited brace that controls the amount of motion available at the ankle.

I did a small case study on this not too long ago after a class 3 sprain. Jumping activities can resume in around 25 days. I would not introduce high level playing at that time, but certain function is beginning to restore itself by then.

[Axl Rose]

Not sure if anyone caught the Thaddeus Young interview on the Gimme the Hot Sauce podcast, but he specifically talked about how the Bulls playing Patrick as a power forward is a mistake that will hurt his development.

He didn’t get into the details though.

Well that is kinda something you go into detail about I mean no one asked him why he thinks that?

[HomoSapien]

Not sure if anyone caught the Thaddeus Young interview on the Gimme the Hot Sauce podcast, but he specifically talked about how the Bulls playing Patrick as a power forward is a mistake that will hurt his development.

He didn’t get into the details though.

Well that is kinda something you go into detail about I mean no one asked him why he thinks that?

I also prefer him as a 3/4 and know on this roster he's going to end up having to play most of his minutes at the 4, but in this positionless era it's only going to be an issue against traditional fours.

[coldfish]

Imo, they are going to tape the hell out of his ankle and have him on the floor for walkthroughs and shooting. What he misses in camp won’t be too terrible. Its not like he is in a coma.

This is actually not with conventional wisdom these days. Taping is beginning to work its way out of most protocols for how to handle sprains.

They may put him in a boot (he probably is already in one) and he will likely be able to do shooting and walkthroughs without any support or a limited brace that controls the amount of motion available at the ankle.

I did a small case study on this not too long ago after a class 3 sprain. Jumping activities can resume in around 25 days. I would not introduce high level playing at that time, but certain function is beginning to restore itself by then.

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

[Grodoboldo]

That would have been with the old medical staff

They would have amputated his arm for a sprained ankle

Would have preventatively taken Zach's arm too, just to be safe.

And because of that, the season would have been ruined, so they would trade Zach and a 2nd rounder for Schroeder, Langford and a pick swap.

[sco]

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/09/28/some-positive-updates-on-patrick-williams-and-coby-white-on-day-1-of-training-camp/

[Michael Jackson]

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2021/09/28/some-positive-updates-on-patrick-williams-and-coby-white-on-day-1-of-training-camp/

All good news as said though nothing really special, just that the timeline looks correct on the recovery. Obviously no injury and fully playing would be better but it is still good to see that they aren't just stuck not working on anything basketball related.

[Stratmaster]

Not sure if anyone caught the Thaddeus Young interview on the Gimme the Hot Sauce podcast, but he specifically talked about how the Bulls playing Patrick as a power forward is a mistake that will hurt his development.

He didn’t get into the details though.

I agree with Thad. I hope he and I are wrong.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[sco]

Not sure if anyone caught the Thaddeus Young interview on the Gimme the Hot Sauce podcast, but he specifically talked about how the Bulls playing Patrick as a power forward is a mistake that will hurt his development.

He didn’t get into the details though.

I agree with Thad. I hope he and I are wrong.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

I do find it interesting. Thad has spent much of his career as a tweener forward and I think we wanted to be more of a SF than PF, and was projecting that on Pat. That said, I think the role of PF has become much more of a ball-handling wing role in the past couple of years such that, other than who you guard, the position isn't much different than SF for those guys who have those skills.

[DuckIII]

Not sure if anyone caught the Thaddeus Young interview on the Gimme the Hot Sauce podcast, but he specifically talked about how the Bulls playing Patrick as a power forward is a mistake that will hurt his development.

He didn’t get into the details though.

Well that is kinda something you go into detail about I mean no one asked him why he thinks that?

I also prefer him as a 3/4 and know on this roster he's going to end up having to play most of his minutes at the 4, but in this positionless era it's only going to be an issue against traditional fours.

He needs to be developed as both. So it works out. Two more things:

1. He’ll also be playing the 3 a reasonable number of minutes.

2. Even at the 4 the offense is likely to often be 4-out-1-in, so he’ll be developing his perimeter offensive skills regardless (which I assume was Thad’s concern moreso than defense).

[madvillian]

Imo, they are going to tape the hell out of his ankle and have him on the floor for walkthroughs and shooting. What he misses in camp won’t be too terrible. Its not like he is in a coma.

This is actually not with conventional wisdom these days. Taping is beginning to work its way out of most protocols for how to handle sprains.

They may put him in a boot (he probably is already in one) and he will likely be able to do shooting and walkthroughs without any support or a limited brace that controls the amount of motion available at the ankle.

I did a small case study on this not too long ago after a class 3 sprain. Jumping activities can resume in around 25 days. I would not introduce high level playing at that time, but certain function is beginning to restore itself by then.

what is the theory on why not to tape? hinders healing by restricting blood flow? that would be my layman's guess. that said, sounds more like Pat had a grade 2 sprain thankfully.

[fleet]

Right, despite the sprain being called by the everyone besides the Bulls as “severe”, appears not.

[kodo]

I would be surprised if anything about Patrick's development changes. I don't think we'll be seeing Patrick used like Thad, setting up in low or high post position, backing in, throwing hook shots, etc.. Or even like Theis, who was mainly a screen & roll lob target / screen & roll mid range shooter. I assume Patrick will still be receiving the ball at the 3 point line and making decisions to shoot / pass / slash.

The best PFs in the EC are guys who are basically SFs in playstyle like Durant & Tobias Harris (as for Giannis, in an offensive scheme he's a center while Lopez is the stretch 4). Tatum also plays almost half his minutes at the 4.

Thad & Theis being traded says they're prioritizing a more modern 4 vs the the two traditional 4s we had. It should leave the paint empty on a Vuc screen up top, where when you play Thad or Theis it's easy for the defending PF to cheat heavily one foot in the paint.

[WookieOnRitalin]

Imo, they are going to tape the hell out of his ankle and have him on the floor for walkthroughs and shooting. What he misses in camp won’t be too terrible. Its not like he is in a coma.

This is actually not with conventional wisdom these days. Taping is beginning to work its way out of most protocols for how to handle sprains.

They may put him in a boot (he probably is already in one) and he will likely be able to do shooting and walkthroughs without any support or a limited brace that controls the amount of motion available at the ankle.

I did a small case study on this not too long ago after a class 3 sprain. Jumping activities can resume in around 25 days. I would not introduce high level playing at that time, but certain function is beginning to restore itself by then.

what is the theory on why not to tape? hinders healing by restricting blood flow? that would be my layman's guess. that said, sounds more like Pat had a grade 2 sprain thankfully.

If you need an athlete to perform in a specific situation for a short period of time, then taping could be used as a tool to limit motion at the joint to not increase the severity of the already injured ligament. Think of a splint. If you're in the middle of the woods and need to get to safety, a splint is an excellent idea. If you're talking about the best healing strategy, it is not. Taping's main goal is to limit motion. Your body loves to problem solve, so if it loses motion at one joint, it begins to increase motion demand elsewhere because it is not getting it where it is supposed to get it OR it just creates in an improper loading mechanic leading to another area of the body compensating.

Joint restriction is one of the worst things you can do in a healing process because of how the body lays down new collagen and creates scar tissue to repair an injured area. You want that new tissue to lay in the length demand for the joint in question. For example, the ankle.

Most common motions
-Eversion vs Inversion (lateral/medial rotation)
-Pronation vs Supination (lateral/medial roll)
-P. Flexion vs D. Flexion (foot point vs foot pull)

All of these motions at the ankle have degrees of normal. It is essential to maintain their normal ROM during healing as to preserve full function of the joint after injury.

Depending on the type of sprain and its severity, one if not many of these motions can become compromised. Consistent immobilization leads to poor restoration of normal ROM unless there are ROM protocols included with the immobilization protocol. The main reason for using a boot is for load absorption, but if you have ever walked in a boot, you know how awkward the gait mechanics are and should be discarded quickly for walking as soon as the ankle can bear full weight.

A dysfunction or limitation in the ankle can also lead to improper kinematics at the knee and hip joint as well leading to problems upstream or on the other leg due to compensation.

So we have to shift priorities.

An injured ligament means you know have a joint with a load bearing problem. So your first priority is to offset the loading problem with crutches or a boot. Then, as soon as the acute stage concludes, begin remodeling and reloading immediately engaging in as much low pain ROM (RPE <3) as possible while using E-stim to control swelling and facilitate regeneration.

Load bearing is a matter of progression through time looking at limiting volume in the beginning then adding volume as the weeks increase, say walking 1/4 mile every day after day 7 assuming pain levels are low, then gradually adding volume as time progresses.