Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[KGdaBom]

I cant find the source it was probably someone on twitter. It also might be an error in measurements, but my eye test that Jaden is tall enough to play PF full time

Tall enough has never been the problem. He's not big enough or strong enough to do it.

We have multiple issues in defense (in order of priority):

1) transition defense. Right now McDaniels is the best option at PF to stop opponent in transtition. His mobility combined with size/wingspan is a weapon. Simply playing a traditional big wont solve this issue

2) defensive rebounding. Here, I agree we could use someone like Larry Nance Jr., however because of more perimeter oriented modern NBA, defensive rebounding must be a collective effort from all positions. Also last year this issues was aggrevitated without Towns who is our best rebounder.

3) giving up open corner 3s. Again McDaniels is our best choice if we need someone able to rotate to stop rolling man and then recover and contest corner 3s.

I agree that MCD needs to put 10-15lbs to be effective against traditional PFs. I just think that MCD+Vando+Reid might be a decent workaround this year to solve our problems at PF

He needs to put on 30 pounds of muscle to be effective against true PFs. Also even if he does some things well it sets a bad tone when your PF is getting physically punked all day long.

[TaylorTag]

OK here me out...

Regarding this "stepping stone" trade people have been throwing out there.. I'm in the camp that a Beverley, McDaniels, Beasely plus 2F FRPs would be plausible.

But in the tier of trades thrown out there, that package is definitely near the bottom, the best being an All-Star player like Dame or Beal, LaVine would be a tier below that, Brogdon and Russell a tier below that.

When you get to the Beasley/McDaniels package, the problem is that if Morey wants a stepping stone trade, then it is unlikely that McDaniels and Beasely and 2 FRPs are enough to get a Dame-level player. Sure, the 76ers could offer some of their other young intriguing assets, so the trade could be something like Thybull, Maxey, McDaniels plus a trove of FRPs -- which isn't that bad of a package actually if you look at it closely. But is it actually enough to get someone like Dame? There is risk because another team could potentially beat that say at the trade deadline, and with no other All-Star player on the trade block, the 76ers are left with Beasely for one more year, Beverley's contract expiring, and McDaniels as a solid asset, but with only 2 FRPs that are likely to be nonlottery picks considering what our roster would look like after such a trade.

I write all this because I wonder if Morey would prefer a package that completely cleans the slate next offseason for him.

A package of Beverley, Prince, Layman and every FRP and pick swap we are allowed to give would give the 76ers 3 expiring contracts worth around $32M. With Simmons off the books, the 76ers still have an awful max contract in Tobias Harris. But with all of the Wolves picks for the foreseeable future, and cap space to boot, I would think the 76ers would be able to figure out way to get the right player next to Embiid, whether that's someone they sign in free agency, or get in a trade (they could even use Tobias' contract to match, which would be attractive).

I guess I am just throwing out the idea that maybe Morey would prefer to just take back expirings and a team's entire draft capital. Question becomes why wouldn't every other team in the NBA just offer expirings to do that, but, and I have to give it to Rosas, the Wolves are uniquely positioned to trade two players in Beverley and Prince that can contribute on a playoff team this season and then become free agents next offseason, giving Morey a lot of flexibility GMs crave.

[Krapinsky]

Sure feels like everyone is dug in and this is going to drag out into the season at this point.

[TaylorTag]

How crazy is this?

MIN OUT: Beverley, Prince, Layman, Okogie, Bolmaro
MIN IN: Ben Simmons, Shake Milton, Isaiah Joe, Charles Bassey

That trade would net us +$1.3M in terms of cap impact, giving us around $1.8 million under the luxury tax to sign a player to the roster to have a minimum of 13 players.

EDIT: Easier fix would be to add Charles Bassey who makes about $1M bucks -- 76ers are already at 15 players, so any Simmons trade needs to take that into account. We would likely have to find a third team dump on of Layman and Okogie so that the 76ers remain at or below 15 players. Okogie might be able to next us a 2nd round pick swap a couple of years from now or something, giving he is on an expiring.

From the 76ers perspective, this trade sucks. But if you really look at it, that is $36M in expiring contracts for them, plus Bolmaro who many said would have been a Top 10 pick in this year's draft, plus all the draft capital we are allowed by the rules to give them.

Is that worse then having Ben sit at home and being without a key player on your roster for a whole season?

[Krapinsky]

How crazy is this?

MIN OUT: Beverley, Prince, Layman, Okogie, Bolmaro
MIN IN: Ben Simmons, Shake Milton, Isaiah Joe

That trade would net us +$1.3M in terms of cap impact, giving us around $1.8 million under the luxury tax to sign a player to the roster to have a minimum of 13 players.

Philadelphia says no.

[Note30]

OK here me out...

Regarding this "stepping stone" trade people have been throwing out there.. I'm in the camp that a Beverley, McDaniels, Beasely plus 2F FRPs would be plausible.

But in the tier of trades thrown out there, that package is definitely near the bottom, the best being an All-Star player like Dame or Beal, LaVine would be a tier below that, Brogdon and Russell a tier below that.

When you get to the Beasley/McDaniels package, the problem is that if Morey wants a stepping stone trade, then it is unlikely that McDaniels and Beasely and 2 FRPs are enough to get a Dame-level player. Sure, the 76ers could offer some of their other young intriguing assets, so the trade could be something like Thybull, Maxey, McDaniels plus a trove of FRPs -- which isn't that bad of a package actually if you look at it closely. But is it actually enough to get someone like Dame? There is risk because another team could potentially beat that say at the trade deadline, and with no other All-Star player on the trade block, the 76ers are left with Beasely for one more year, Beverley's contract expiring, and McDaniels as a solid asset, but with only 2 FRPs that are likely to be nonlottery picks considering what our roster would look like after such a trade.

I write all this because I wonder if Morey would prefer a package that completely cleans the slate next offseason for him.

A package of Beverley, Prince, Layman and every FRP and pick swap we are allowed to give would give the 76ers 3 expiring contracts worth around $32M. With Simmons off the books, the 76ers still have an awful max contract in Tobias Harris. But with all of the Wolves picks for the foreseeable future, and cap space to boot, I would think the 76ers would be able to figure out way to get the right player next to Embiid, whether that's someone they sign in free agency, or get in a trade (they could even use Tobias' contract to match, which would be attractive).

I guess I am just throwing out the idea that maybe Morey would prefer to just take back expirings and a team's entire draft capital. Question becomes why wouldn't every other team in the NBA just offer expirings to do that, but, and I have to give it to Rosas, the Wolves are uniquely positioned to trade two players in Beverley and Prince that can contribute on a playoff team this season and then become free agents next offseason, giving Morey a lot of flexibility GMs crave.

Dame isn't on the table ever for Portland (unless Dame demands a trade which could happen next year). Morey is nuts if he thinks he can get him.

Beal is the only realistic target for PHI.

So what could we offer plus Maxey or Thybulle, and a PHI pick, to get Beal?

[Merc_Porto]

The problem is you want to conflate usage and offensive opinion which I covered...so there is nothing more to say...

Your opinion was either wrong or incomplete.

People on here are smart enough to understand your point even though it isn't articulated the best. Move on and save your sarcastic emojis.

Not at all, I was discussing basketball.
If you don't want to discuss basketball that's up to you.

If you want to come up with
"Your opinion was either wrong or incomplete."
"There is no response to what I said, it is 100% accurate, so I didn't bother reading your post because it would only be to argue something that has been covered, correctly."

But again, this is something that I'm getting used to you. I come with numbers and facts and you come with that.
Enough said.

[SO_MONEY]

The problem is you want to conflate usage and offensive opinion which I covered...so there is nothing more to say...

Your opinion was either wrong or incomplete.

People on here are smart enough to understand your point even though it isn't articulated the best. Move on and save your sarcastic emojis.

Not at all, I was discussing basketball.
If you don't want to discuss basketball that's up to you.

If you want to come up with
"Your opinion was either wrong or incomplete."
"There is no response to what I said, it is 100% accurate, so I didn't bother reading your post because it would only be to argue something that has been covered, correctly."

But again, this is something that I'm getting used to you. I come with numbers and facts and you come with that.
Enough said.

Your opinion was addressed, it was shown to be incorrect. In a nutshell, Simmons usage rate and what offensive option he is are not the same and neither impacts the other. Simmons would be the 4th option, behind DLo, KAT and ANT, yet offense might flow through him and he may have a decent usage rate...TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!!! Please just stop. There is no argument to have here.

[Tomjas]

Sixers fan here who thinks that Morey is an idiot who has completely stuffed up Simmons situation after completely botching Chris Paul trade

So ….

Sixers get John Wall, KPJ and boatload of picks

Timberwolves get Simmons and Korkmaz

Rockets get Beverley, Prince and Beasley

Your picks are going to be worth way less with that core

Rockets get off Wall & will need to throw picks in

Morey can spin it as being an AS, massively underpaid scorer plus lots of picks

Any interest?

[TheProdigy]

Sixers fan here who thinks that Morey is an idiot who has completely stuffed up Simmons situation after completely botching Chris Paul trade

So ….

Sixers get John Wall, KPJ and boatload of picks

Timberwolves get Simmons and Korkmaz

Rockets get Beverley, Prince and Beasley

Your picks are going to be worth way less with that core

Rockets get off Wall & will need to throw picks in

Morey can spin it as being an AS, massively underpaid scorer plus lots of picks

Any interest?

Maybe. We would need to have "boatload of picks" defined in order to say with certainty. I would probably do 3 FRPs + 2 swaps, but nothing more than that. The idea of having a KAT-Simmons-McD-Edwards-DLo core is very interesting.

[shrink]

Your picks are going to be worth way less with that core

We’re the Timberwolves. Something always happens, every year. If I remember right, we have failed to meet Vegas’ preseason win prediction 13 of the last 16 years.

I don’t think we can go down a one-way street with Simmons without a safety net.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Your picks are going to be worth way less with that core

We’re the Timberwolves. Something always happens, every year. If I remember right, we have failed to meet Vegas’ preseason win prediction 13 of the last 16 years.

I don’t think we can go down a one-way street with Simmons without a safety net.

That’s it? Well I’m sure one year was butlers year when we won 48…the other 2 were probably winning 18-20 games when we were slated to win 16.5

[Note30]

Sixers fan here who thinks that Morey is an idiot who has completely stuffed up Simmons situation after completely botching Chris Paul trade

So ….

Sixers get John Wall, KPJ and boatload of picks

Timberwolves get Simmons and Korkmaz

Rockets get Beverley, Prince and Beasley

Your picks are going to be worth way less with that core

Rockets get off Wall & will need to throw picks in

Morey can spin it as being an AS, massively underpaid scorer plus lots of picks

Any interest?

Done

[fattymcgee]

Sixers fan here who thinks that Morey is an idiot who has completely stuffed up Simmons situation after completely botching Chris Paul trade

So ….

Sixers get John Wall, KPJ and boatload of picks

Timberwolves get Simmons and Korkmaz

Rockets get Beverley, Prince and Beasley

Your picks are going to be worth way less with that core

Rockets get off Wall & will need to throw picks in

Morey can spin it as being an AS, massively underpaid scorer plus lots of picks

Any interest?

Done

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

[TheProdigy]

Sixers fan here who thinks that Morey is an idiot who has completely stuffed up Simmons situation after completely botching Chris Paul trade

So ….

Sixers get John Wall, KPJ and boatload of picks

Timberwolves get Simmons and Korkmaz

Rockets get Beverley, Prince and Beasley

Your picks are going to be worth way less with that core

Rockets get off Wall & will need to throw picks in

Morey can spin it as being an AS, massively underpaid scorer plus lots of picks

Any interest?

Done

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

Milwaukee traded 3 FRPs and 2 swaps to get Jrue Holiday which is what I based my opinion on. Maybe that's too much but it's in the ball park.

[BlacJacMac]

Sixers fan here who thinks that Morey is an idiot who has completely stuffed up Simmons situation after completely botching Chris Paul trade

So ….

Sixers get John Wall, KPJ and boatload of picks

Timberwolves get Simmons and Korkmaz

Rockets get Beverley, Prince and Beasley

Your picks are going to be worth way less with that core

Rockets get off Wall & will need to throw picks in

Morey can spin it as being an AS, massively underpaid scorer plus lots of picks

Any interest?

Done

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

I do it in a heartbeat.

Player-wise, Beverley, Prince and Beasley is a very, very small price to pay. And Korkmaz is a career 38% shooter from 3.

[jpatrick]

Done

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

I do it in a heartbeat.

Player-wise, Beverley, Prince and Beasley is a very, very small price to pay. And Korkmaz is a career 38% shooter from 3.

Yup. Absolutely I’m in. You get Simmons without giving up McDaniels, DLo, or even Bolmaro? I’ll go to California to pick up Simmons myself.

[BlacJacMac]

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

I do it in a heartbeat.

Player-wise, Beverley, Prince and Beasley is a very, very small price to pay. And Korkmaz is a career 38% shooter from 3.

Yup. Absolutely I’m in. You get Simmons without giving up McDaniels, DLo, or even Bolmaro? I’ll go to California to pick up Simmons myself.

I'm not really that worried about the picks. Jake Layman (27) would be the only player on our roster over 25. And I really think there is a good chance the swaps wouldn't even happen.

[_AIJ_]

Its awfully quiet. I thinks theres a trade happening today

[shrink]

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

Milwaukee traded 3 FRPs and 2 swaps to get Jrue Holiday which is what I based my opinion on. Maybe that's too much but it's in the ball park.

That wasn’t the price for Jrue alone. That was the price for Jrue plus the more important “get Giannis to stay” price. David Griffin knew that there weren’t many All Stars likely to be available for trade, and Giannis needed incentive, and wisely asked for, and received, far more than Jrue was worth.

This is comparable to the situation where LAC overpaid for Paul George, but most of the price was to get Kawhi to sign.

Neither should be used as a comp (unless we also get an MVP candidate with Simmons …?).