Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[Macwolf527]

I believe it’s important to roll into the season with the current players. Both sides have dug in on this Simmons fiascal and I would rather the Wolves not become a third party to the circus. Wherever Simmons goes, he’s bringing the circus with him. Void of us getting a deal where we dump newly acquired players (Prince and Beverly) and expiring contracts (Layman and Okogie), I don’t want to upset the chemistry until we see what type of noise our core can make together. Give me 15-20 games, then we can revisit going after Simmons with deals that may include some of our core pieces.

[jpatrick]

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

Milwaukee traded 3 FRPs and 2 swaps to get Jrue Holiday which is what I based my opinion on. Maybe that's too much but it's in the ball park.

That wasn’t the price for Jrue alone. That was the price for Jrue plus the more important “get Giannis to stay” price. David Griffin knew that there weren’t many All Stars likely to be available for trade, and Giannis needed incentive, and wisely asked for, and received, far more than Jrue was worth.

This is comparable to the situation where LAC overpaid for Paul George, but most of the price was to get Kawhi to sign.

Neither should be used as a comp (unless we also get an MVP candidate with Simmons …?).

I know that everyone is saying all is good with Towns. But if we don’t make a huge jump, I wouldn’t be surprised if KAT started asking out. I feel like the front office privately should have a good idea where KAT’s head is at, I don’t think it necessarily lines up with what either side says publicly, as that does not do either side any good.

[Dosadi]

Only one Instagram post so far today (P.Bev) from the T-wolves official account. If they only do one today, my spidey senses will be on alert....

[shrink]

That wasn’t the price for Jrue alone. That was the price for Jrue plus the more important “get Giannis to stay” price. David Griffin knew that there weren’t many All Stars likely to be available for trade, and Giannis needed incentive, and wisely asked for, and received, far more than Jrue was worth.

This is comparable to the situation where LAC overpaid for Paul George, but most of the price was to get Kawhi to sign.

Neither should be used as a comp (unless we also get an MVP candidate with Simmons …?).

I know that everyone is saying all is good with Towns. But if we don’t make a huge jump, I wouldn’t be surprised if KAT started asking out. I feel like the front office privately should have a good idea where KAT’s head is at, I don’t think it necessarily lines up with what either side says publicly, as that does not do either side any good.

That was the reason we had to get Russell, wasn’t it?

[jpatrick]

That wasn’t the price for Jrue alone. That was the price for Jrue plus the more important “get Giannis to stay” price. David Griffin knew that there weren’t many All Stars likely to be available for trade, and Giannis needed incentive, and wisely asked for, and received, far more than Jrue was worth.

This is comparable to the situation where LAC overpaid for Paul George, but most of the price was to get Kawhi to sign.

Neither should be used as a comp (unless we also get an MVP candidate with Simmons …?).

I know that everyone is saying all is good with Towns. But if we don’t make a huge jump, I wouldn’t be surprised if KAT started asking out. I feel like the front office privately should have a good idea where KAT’s head is at, I don’t think it necessarily lines up with what either side says publicly, as that does not do either side any good.

That was the reason we had to get Russell, wasn’t it?

Bringing buddies doesn’t keep players happy for long, only winning does that. Maybe the FO is confident they we’re a playoff team this year. I’m not as confident, especially given the absolute lack of PF or any toughness in the front court.

[moonpie]

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[Klomp]

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I tweeted this out as well, but two things struck me about this:

1. Interesting that Joel Embiid will likely get no backlash for saying that letting go his good friend was a mistake, when that’s the exact type of comment that small-market stars such as Karl-Anthony Towns would be criticized for making.

2. Embiid is correct about the 3-point shooting around Simmons if looking only at percentages, but the 4 other starters combined for 17.6 3-point attempts per game (as a team, 76ers ranked 26th in 3PA). Green averaged 6.3 attempts per game, Curry 4.9, Harris 3.3, Embiid 3.0. The volume just isn’t there, which is an indictment more on the coaches than the teammates. That’s why Simmons wants out.

[shrink]

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1. He sounds bitter, and this won’t encourage Simmons to rejoin. He should have apologized if he wanted Ben back.

2. Lies. PHI didn’t lost Jimmy to help Ben. Jimmy wanted to go to Miami. The team is built around Embiid, not Ben.

3. How young/dumb do you have to be, as a Philly player, to keep calling Andre Iguodala “AI”?

[Klomp]

3. How young/dumb do you have to be, as a Philly player, to keep calling Andre Iguodala “AI”?

I thought that too at first. Must be the font. He's talking about when they brought in Al Horford.

[shrink]

3. How young/dumb do you have to be, as a Philly player, to keep calling Andre Iguodala “AI”?

I thought that too at first. Must be the font. He's talking about when they brought in Al Horford.

Thanks Klomp. That makes much more sense.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

On paper that’s a monster line up of BS/Jimmy/TH/AH and Biid. But I’d be hard pressed to believe Jimmy staying in Philly if Thibs isn’t there. So he chose south beach. Which who can blame him?


I would say biids quote pretty much cements any chance BS never plays for Philly ever again

[Note30]

Done

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

Milwaukee traded 3 FRPs and 2 swaps to get Jrue Holiday which is what I based my opinion on. Maybe that's too much but it's in the ball park.

Wasn't it 2 unprotected picks?

[TheProdigy]

Depends on how many picks we give up. Houston would have to give up a **** for moving Wall.
One of the posters above suggested 3 FRP and 2 swaps which is way too much.

Milwaukee traded 3 FRPs and 2 swaps to get Jrue Holiday which is what I based my opinion on. Maybe that's too much but it's in the ball park.

Wasn't it 2 unprotected picks?

They also traded the 24th pick in the draft to Denver as part of the 4 team trade.

[zimpy27]

DLo+McDaniels+FRP for Simmons+Milton

Do you guys like that trade?

IMO the starting 5 you want is:
Beverley, Beasley, Edwards, Simmons, KAT

[Domejandro]

DLo+McDaniels+FRP for Simmons+Milton

Do you guys like that trade?

IMO the starting 5 you want is:
Beverley, Beasley, Edwards, Simmons, KAT

You are going to receive a substantial amount of pushback. Ultimately I think the value is roughly in the correct ballpark, but Minnesota's goal is likely to combine Simmons, Russell, and Towns.

Something important with Ben Simmons trade scenarios is that the "if this was on the table, would Philadelphia have taken it by now"-question is important. If the answer is "yes", then it probably is not on the table.

[shrink]

Something important with Ben Simmons trade scenarios is that the "if this was on the table, would Philadelphia have taken it by now"-question is important. If the answer is "yes", then it probably is not on the table.

This is a really interesting point.

Let’s keep in mind that from PHI’s end, Simmons’ value has gone through three transformations:

1. For the first six weeks of the summer, Morey thinks he may get Lillard or Beal. While other teams make offers, he will accept a package worth nothing less than Lillard or Beal. Inside reports from about ten local reporters and every national reporter is that Morey is asking for a ridiculous amount. One front office insider laughs at the amount and says, “I don’t think he really wants to trade him.” This level ended about four weeks ago, when Lillard and Beal again reinforced they wanted to stay with their current team. Morey knows he’s not getting these guys or an equivalent package.

2. About three weeks ago, Morey, Doc, and even the owner, fly to Los Angeles to try to convince Ben Simmons to return to the Sixers. Simmons tells them to their face he’s never going to play again for PHI, even if it costs him his salary. Jon Krawczinski calls this the moment MIN has been waiting for, His value to PHI drops farther, but Morey still hopes he’s bluffing.

3. Earlier this week, Simmons refused to show up for Media Day, and hasn’t been at training camp. Doc and Embiid refuse to apologize for throwing him under the bus, He’s told other Sixer players on the team not to bother coming out there to try to change his mind. His threat of not receiving salary seems deadly serious. National reporters say this is when legitimate trading for Simmons starts. His value to PHI drops even farther - as long as they have him on the team, he’s a $32 mil hole in their team production.

It’s all about timing, There are deals that PHI wouldn’t have accepted at a previous date, that may look much better now.

[Baseline81]

DLo+McDaniels+FRP for Simmons+Milton

Do you guys like that trade?

IMO the starting 5 you want is:
Beverley, Beasley, Edwards, Simmons, KAT

As Domejandro said, the Wolves ideally want to pair Simmons with Edwards, Russell and Towns.

You'll likely see groans over the inclusion of McDaniels. Many here, and in the state, have called him the steal of the 2020 draft (redrafts have him as a lottery pick). He compliments the three I mentioned above. Better yet, McDaniels recently turned 21 years of age and is on a rookie salary (28th pick) through the 2024-25 season. Not only did he show improvement over the summer, but he also legitimately grew an inch. In all, his value to the Wolves is likely higher than that of any other team.

[shrink]

My other point is about what a buyer would offer now. Every team sees the situation PHI is in, which I addressed in my last post. Historically, teams rarely receive full value back when trading a star, and even less for a player that demands a trade. No player has even went this far in demanding a trade (Steve Francis is the closest I can think of). His value to PHI is negative right now, but they have to hope they can still generate an auction. However, every day they wait decreases Simmons value

1. Waiting doesn’t fix his intrinsic problems. He never shown the ability to develop his weak areas when he’s working with his team. His shooting is not going to be better. And avoiding the Sixers situation doesn’t demonstrate his confidence issue is gone.

2. If you consider Simmons to be on a good contract, every day Morey waits shortens the contract.

3. Moreso than virtually any player in the NBA, Simmons great strengths and great weaknesses require a GM to build a team around him that fits. Morey waited all summer long, while other teams built their teams to get ready for the season.

4. Right now, Simmons is not at any team’s training camp. Coaches want to implement and practice strategies that play to the strengths of their players. Every day he misses training camp with his new team doesn’t help.

5. Every day Simmons refuses to honor his contract, he is showing his NEXT team that his own happiness trumps getting paid. GM’s need to assess all the risks of acquiring a player, and when a healthy player won’t honor a contract for personal reasons, that is a risk that hurts his value.

Some of these fan-based trade offers seem to believe that Simmons has the same value he did six months ago, not just before the playoffs, but also below all the events since then that have lowered his value even further.

[shrink]

DLo+McDaniels+FRP for Simmons+Milton

Do you guys like that trade?

IMO the starting 5 you want is:
Beverley, Beasley, Edwards, Simmons, KAT

1. Personally, I don’t think Simmons has this much value at this moment. Maybe six months ago (read my post above)

2. You can improve the trade for both sides by replacing McDaniels with Layman and a Top 8 protected 1st.

3. We don’t know what Gupta thinks about Simmons, and I’m sure he knows him well when he worked at PHI. But nobody was interviewing Gupta on this - we only know how Rosas felt. He said KAT and Ant were “off the table” and insiders all feel Rosas would prefer to pair the high school teammates rather than swap one for the other. However, Rosas may like Russell more than the rest of the front office. Last week, we learned that Rosas gave up more in the Wiggins-Russell trade than the front office expected. Keeping Towns happy is also an issue, but he and Simmons are close friends as well.

4. Personally, I don’t think a Russell trade is off the table, because it leaves the team with the financial flexibility to build around Simmons, rather than be hampered with three max deals. Flexibility would be needed, because MIN would need to find a starting PG that could operate at the end of games if they lost DLo.

5. I am no fan of DLo either, but I will give credit to Klomp for showing me a need he fills, that should make him more appealing to analytics-driven Morey than PHI posters here.

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[D1SGRUNTL3D]

Trading Russell would be insanely stupid and I don’t believe is in the books.

Hold strong. Philly can wilt away with the BS distractions for all I care. A 37,000,000 empty seat on the bench is tough to look at.