Political Roundtable Part XXX

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Good tank the infrastructure bill and pass the reconciliation bill. 99% of the Dems in Congress have been negotiating in good faith, especially the Progressive caucus who have made concessions. It’s the morons like Manchin and Sinema and other unnamed slimeballs that are the problem.

[Pointgod]

Wisconsin Assembly Flagrantly Violates 1st Amendment

https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-assembly-passes-ban-on-teaching-critical-race-theory/article_1e53044a-8047-58c7-9560-368ae54fb588.html

I wish I was a schoolteacher in Milwaukee so I could be the first to violate this law and get it to the Supreme Court. I don't think even Kavanaugh would fall for this. Thomas probably will, that idiot.

Although I think you have to violate the law and then get punished for it, maybe they're just not going to enforce it.

Oh it hasn't passed the Senate yet. Well but the Senate is Republican controlled so it'll probably pass. They're enforcing it by docking your funding by 10%, so yeah. All it takes is one schoolteacher to teach CRT or one of the related thoughtcrime, not get punished by the school district, and then the legislature tries to punish them by reducing their funding, and bam lawsuit.

I wonder how the 1a works for government employees like teachers. Surely this has been litigated before.

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/973/rights-of-teachers

Oh no!

"Teachers asserting a First Amendment violation must now clear an additional hurdle, as a result of the Supreme Court’s decision in Garcetti v. Ceballos (2006). In Garcetti the Court ruled that public employees do not retain First Amendment protection for speech as part of their official job duties."

The Governor will veto it unless they have a veto proof majority in both chambers. This is an empty gesture because Republicans are trash and have nothing to run on other than trolling. The Republican Party is possibly filled with the biggest collection of idiots on the country

[Zonkerbl]

Oh the Wisconsin gov is Democrat? so this is just authoritarian grandstanding. I'm both relieved and aggravated.

[Zonkerbl]

My gut feeling is the Democrats, stumbling from crisis to crisis, will somehow manage to get the BIF and the reconciliation bill and the debt ceiling all passed. It's the message discipline that bothers me, I'm sure there's just as much infighting on the GOP side but they manage to keep it quiet.

[Pointgod]

My gut feeling is the Democrats, stumbling from crisis to crisis, will somehow manage to get the BIF and the reconciliation bill and the debt ceiling all passed. It's the message discipline that bothers me, I'm sure there's just as much infighting on the GOP side but they manage to keep it quiet.

If Democrats manage to pass all 3 then they’re way more competent than anyone gives them credit for. I don’t think the infighting matters if they manage to pass everything, they can go back to their district with their respective talking points. Yes their message discipline sucks, but the failure is not passing the reconciliation bill. Who cares about the BIF.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[verbal8]

Wisconsin Assembly Flagrantly Violates 1st Amendment

I wish I was a schoolteacher in Milwaukee so I could be the first to violate this law and get it to the Supreme Court. I don't think even Kavanaugh would fall for this. Thomas probably will, that idiot.

Alito and Amy Covid Barrett aren't too far behind Thomas in terms of being partisan hacks.

[verbal8]

My gut feeling is the Democrats, stumbling from crisis to crisis, will somehow manage to get the BIF and the reconciliation bill and the debt ceiling all passed. It's the message discipline that bothers me, I'm sure there's just as much infighting on the GOP side but they manage to keep it quiet.

If Democrats manage to pass all 3 then they’re way more competent than anyone gives them credit for. I don’t think the infighting matters if they manage to pass everything, they can go back to their district with their respective talking points. Yes their message discipline sucks, but the failure is not passing the reconciliation bill. Who cares about the BIF.

The GOP might be getting too "friendly" in their party - e.g. Noem and Corey Lewandowski.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[Zonkerbl]

Oh the Wisconsin gov is Democrat? so this is just authoritarian grandstanding. I'm both relieved and aggravated.

I mean, I'm the idiot for falling for this but you know I'd appreciate it if, in the FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THE PIECE, the reporter would mention if the legislation has a chance of passing.

"Republican house in Wisconsin passes "Government Censorship of Certain Thoughtcrimes in Education Act." This bill, which will likely face a veto from the Dem gov if it comes to his desk, is a slap in the face to liberals, since the targeted thoughtcrimes are core elements of progressive thinking, and the very act of banning them is flagrantly racist, and moderate conservatives, who sometimes claim to be against heavy handed govt interventions. Nevertheless the proponents feel that the Government has the right to censor the speech of government employees like elementary school educators in the performance of their actual duties, an issue that has never been tested in the Supreme Court."

There, that's everything you need to know in one fricking paragraph. Why are journalists such crappy writers?

[bsilver]

Oh the Wisconsin gov is Democrat? so this is just authoritarian grandstanding. I'm both relieved and aggravated.

I mean, I'm the idiot for falling for this but you know I'd appreciate it if, in the FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THE PIECE, the reporter would mention if the legislation has a chance of passing.

"Republican house in Wisconsin passes "Government Censorship of Certain Thoughtcrimes in Education Act." This bill, which will likely face a veto from the Dem gov if it comes to his desk, is a slap in the face to liberals, since the targeted thoughtcrimes are core elements of progressive thinking, and the very act of banning them is flagrantly racist, and moderate conservatives, who sometimes claim to be against heavy handed govt interventions. Nevertheless the proponents feel that the Government has the right to censor the speech of government employees like elementary school educators in the performance of their actual duties, an issue that has never been tested in the Supreme Court."

There, that's everything you need to know in one fricking paragraph. Why are journalists such crappy writers?

I'm on your side, but not completely convinced about the absoluteness of free speech by teachers. What if teachers in a blue state were prohibited from teaching stuff like:
the election was stolen from Trump
anti-vax theory
Is all speech protected? The link below discusses the current state of court opinions, and it seems like there is no absolute standard for allowable speech by teachers.
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/973/rights-of-teachers

[Zonkerbl]

I wonder if the gop would then somehow use this to finally sneak in creationism

[bsilver]

I wonder if the gop would then somehow use this to finally sneak in creationism

This is not allowed, according to many court cases.
Also, teachers can’t teach creationism on their own, and cite first amendment protection.
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/article/53/8/766/269665

The current Supreme Court seems like it could do almost anything when it comes to upended precedent. But they didn’t agree to overturn the last election so there is some limitation to what there willing to do. In the cases before the court, the states didn’t want to change election results. In the next election the cases may be different. New election laws allow the states to change election results in some situations.

[Zonkerbl]

Everything is allowed now. The Constitution has zero meaning. The law is whatever Trump says it is.

[pancakes3]

It feels dumb to even type this out but teachers have to teach to a curriculum, and that curriculum is based on state-mandated standards. A teacher has a certain level of individual freedom in deciding what topics to delve into when teaching say... civics or American history and in building their lesson plans tailored to say... Jim Crow, or American post-war imperialism (topics that were overlooked during my time in k12 education) but mostly it's just going along the chapters of whatever textbook is used.

the need for teachers to start teaching CRT is that (a) the existing curriculum is undeniably whitewashed and ignores the historical atrocities committed by the white ruling power on minorities; and (b) has not been updated to acknowledge the continuing acts of racism through history as we lived through it.

additionally, CRT is an academically recognized and researched field of study. Trump winning the election is baseless, and is opinion at best. Teachers cannot be teaching based on opinion. We're all working in our respective professions. We all have our personal opinions on work matters, but our opinions must be informed by fact and expertise. A doctor can't prescribe medicine based on his personal political opinion no more than a lawyer offer advice based on his politics. a builder can't build a condo by the coastline and ignore that climate change requires that it be built to account for increased frequency/intensity of weather events.

there is a blurring between objective facts and personal opinion as the GOP continues to take positions that are not based in objective fact. however, just because there's overlap between the party alignments and objective fact, we shouldn't lose sight on that our society obligations are still grounded in objective fact. climate change is the obvious manifestation of this overlap.

there's one party that says: "the science says its real and we need to spend money on it" and the other is saying "well i don't believe it" or "the science doesn't sufficiently prove it" or "even if it's happening, we have no obligation to spend money on it." there's no rational basis for that because again, we all need to do our jobs: a) grounded in fact; and b) continually being informed by new research. you'll hear arguments from the Right claiming that there's no consensus, or that the research doesn't back it, and cite random figures that are found in polls and studies conducted in the 90's. There's been 20 years of additional research since then. Better research. We're literally lobsters being boiled in a pot and some are saying "well we've been in this pot this long, and nobody's been boiled alive, plus the temperature has only increased 1 degree in the last 20 minutes"

[dobrojim]

This touched me/made my day. From today's WaPo Hints from Heloise.

Dear Heloise, I am 13 years old and attend school in my hometown in Wyoming. Everyone in our class had to do a report on the coronavirus outbreak and its effect on America. I got an A on my report, but in doing research, I wondered why people listen to gossip on the internet instead of listening to the people at the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, or to the scientists who study this terrible disease. I know it's hard sometimes to tell the difference between what is true and what is not, but it's always best to listen to common sense and read up on everything you can about this disease. I think you'll find that wearing a mask isn't so bad after all. And while I really hate shots, I got vaccinated at the same time my mother was vaccinated, because I would never want to bring home a disease that would harm my 8-year old brother. I love him too much to put him at risk for covid.

Anyway, this is my view of coronavirus, I believe we need to look out for one another, and in doing so, we'll come out of this time of stress and fear a much stronger nation. (signed) Meghan B Wyoming

This kid is so much smarter than many 'grown-ups' it boggles the mind. It's also clear that she has more empathy towards others than we often observe in the behavior of many adults of late. I applaud and congratulate her, her parents and teachers for all of this.

[Zonkerbl]

It feels dumb to even type this out but teachers have to teach to a curriculum, and that curriculum is based on state-mandated standards. A teacher has a certain level of individual freedom in deciding what topics to delve into when teaching say... civics or American history and in building their lesson plans tailored to say... Jim Crow, or American post-war imperialism (topics that were overlooked during my time in k12 education) but mostly it's just going along the chapters of whatever textbook is used.

the need for teachers to start teaching CRT is that (a) the existing curriculum is undeniably whitewashed and ignores the historical atrocities committed by the white ruling power on minorities; and (b) has not been updated to acknowledge the continuing acts of racism through history as we lived through it.

additionally, CRT is an academically recognized and researched field of study. Trump winning the election is baseless, and is opinion at best. Teachers cannot be teaching based on opinion. We're all working in our respective professions. We all have our personal opinions on work matters, but our opinions must be informed by fact and expertise. A doctor can't prescribe medicine based on his personal political opinion no more than a lawyer offer advice based on his politics. a builder can't build a condo by the coastline and ignore that climate change requires that it be built to account for increased frequency/intensity of weather events.

there is a blurring between objective facts and personal opinion as the GOP continues to take positions that are not based in objective fact. however, just because there's overlap between the party alignments and objective fact, we shouldn't lose sight on that our society obligations are still grounded in objective fact. climate change is the obvious manifestation of this overlap.

there's one party that says: "the science says its real and we need to spend money on it" and the other is saying "well i don't believe it" or "the science doesn't sufficiently prove it" or "even if it's happening, we have no obligation to spend money on it." there's no rational basis for that because again, we all need to do our jobs: a) grounded in fact; and b) continually being informed by new research. you'll hear arguments from the Right claiming that there's no consensus, or that the research doesn't back it, and cite random figures that are found in polls and studies conducted in the 90's. There's been 20 years of additional research since then. Better research. We're literally lobsters being boiled in a pot and some are saying "well we've been in this pot this long, and nobody's been boiled alive, plus the temperature has only increased 1 degree in the last 20 minutes"

What's the penalty for ignoring facts? If Trump has taught us anything in the last four years, facts don't actually matter. There's no way to punish someone from the other party for lying, so if they don't do it, nobody will.

[Pointgod]

This touched me/made my day. From today's WaPo Hints from Heloise.

Dear Heloise, I am 13 years old and attend school in my hometown in Wyoming. Everyone in our class had to do a report on the coronavirus outbreak and its effect on America. I got an A on my report, but in doing research, I wondered why people listen to gossip on the internet instead of listening to the people at the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, or to the scientists who study this terrible disease. I know it's hard sometimes to tell the difference between what is true and what is not, but it's always best to listen to common sense and read up on everything you can about this disease. I think you'll find that wearing a mask isn't so bad after all. And while I really hate shots, I got vaccinated at the same time my mother was vaccinated, because I would never want to bring home a disease that would harm my 8-year old brother. I love him too much to put him at risk for covid.

Anyway, this is my view of coronavirus, I believe we need to look out for one another, and in doing so, we'll come out of this time of stress and fear a much stronger nation. (signed) Meghan B Wyoming

This kid is so much smarter than many 'grown-ups' it boggles the mind. It's also clear that she has more empathy towards others than we often observe in the behavior of many adults of late. I applaud and congratulate her, her parents and teachers for all of this.

Fake news. This 13 year old is obviously a Democratic plant and crisis writer.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

[Ruzious]

Read on Twitter

?s=19

I just don't get her not being willing to answer questions. That's what she signed up for when she became a politician who the people put their trust in. Not only that, it would make her job easier if she answered them. The only conclusion I can see is that she knows her own positions are unreasonable.