Joel Embiid: “We got rid of Jimmy, just to make sure he needed the ball in his hands”

[TheNewEra]

Sixers didn't get rid of Jimmy.

Jimmy left.

Because the Sixers wouldn't pay him.

Simmons went to Brett Brown after the playoffs when the Sixers had given more of the playmaking duties over to Jimmy Butler and told Brett Brown he was 'troubled' by not having the ball in his hands.

If anyone thinks that the Sixers simply moved Jimmy Butler because they didn't want to pay him and not because they were factoring in potential 'conflict' with Simmons they're delusional.

Jimmy said Simmons was upset and rightfully so about the situation. How are you going to twist what he said to push this narrative when he told you the truth from his perspective?

[eyeatoma]

You can come up with other narratives. Maybe Jimmy left because of aliens and now he's covering it up. All you have is the truth Jimmy has given here, Jimmy of all players is going to give you the truth. If you choose not to believe what jimmy is saying then you want to have a pretty solid line of evidence to refute it.

That feels like a weirdly defensive and dismissive response, but okay I can explain it again and in more detail if you want. Butler says in the video that he left because he heard the team was concerned about 'controlling' him, he doesn't explain why but you're right we should start with that. First what would have caused that feeling? Brett Brown is known as a particularly democratic and non-heavy-handed coach, and Redick in the video confirms that Butler didn't seem to be that difficult a guy to work with on the Sixers. So what would the Sixers be controlling, what tension would they be concerned about? Butler doesn't say and doesn't give us much to work with, the narrative he gives skips over it.

In the video the only tensions Butler talks about were Ben being heated about losing touches in the PO, and him saying TJ McConnell also wanted some more touches. Both those seem like they're more incidental things that came up in the flow of the conversation so I don't think they're giving you a clear answer. But even if you want them to they're both pointing towards some ongoing tensions with the Sixers around spreading out the ball on offense. Sure it's speculating to say that's the main reason there was tension, but Butler doesn't contradict that and there's clearly a TON of info and stories that aren't mentioned here. Then we also have Embiid's story, so I'm not sure why we think that Butler saying nothing about Simmons' feelings means that what Embiid says about it is false.

Also my point about how we reframe things isn't that JB (or I) make things up or make up fake narratives, it's that after the fact we all tell a simpler story to make sense of a more complicated heap of things. Like if at work I have 10 months worth of tension with someone about 50 things, most of it minor but some if it spilling into the open, and then that person finally quits over a small final argument--I'm not going to tell a story that goes into detail about every little disagreement or anything else. You just end up saying 'that person always had a serious attitude' or 'we were never in agreement about basic strategy.' (Clearer example might be breaking up with an ex, we can all remember multiple versions of stories we've told and re-told people over time about what happened there.) JB here said that he never felt quite right about the Sixers FO and his role there, and that they seemed to be inventing tension that he didn't think was there. But that leaves out many months of the individual arguments, grumblings, side-conversations, etc, plus a bunch of stuff the FO and other guys were talking about that didn't include him. Jimmy's story isn't about that cuz why would it be? End of the day, he didn't feel respected there or like he was a good fit so it didn't work out. Perfectly reasonable short narrative but it doesn't tell us the what and why at all.

Jimmy highlighted the issue was a lack of leadership and a lack of communication in the locker room. I think Brown was the main problem here but apparently none of the guys spoke up.

He states that he wasn't played on ball enough during RS and that it caused a lot of tension between him and Brown. Then he said that switching himself on the ball in the playoffs was also a mistake. Not enough was developed to blend Jimmy into the team.

I think it's pretty obvious why Jimmy left, he'd also long been interested in Miami since sparking up a friendship with Wade in Chicago.

Sixers didn't get rid of Jimmy because of Ben.. it sounds like you agree with this too in your post.. therefore Joel's statement is untrue no matter how we slice it.

It's clear you have a narrative in your head already, and are being stubborn, just because it didn't come from Jimmy's mouth. You realize people can still withhold information. Politicians do it all the time. Doctor's sugarcoat medical results often. Just because Jimmy didn't actually say it doesn't mean Ben wasn't the main reason he wasn't signed. Maybe Jimmy didn't want to say it, because Joel told him not to. He knew that if Jimmy said that it would create a rift that would make Joel upset even more (because you know the media would ask for comment from Joel), and then it would make the last two seasons more awkward. Jimmy, JJ and Joel are good friends. You don't' think friends will protect Joel, so as not to make his life harder in a season where the media was questioning Joel's commitment, and when he came out multiple times saying he wasn't having fun. A true friend isn't going to make it harder but coming out and creating a rift between his friend and the other star on the team. I feel like it's pretty easy to read the tea leaves here.

[TheNewEra]

I get where you're going but I don't think it's that simple, for two reasons. First I've had plenty of work drama over the years and I definitely reframe narratives about what happened to make them simpler and more about my own values and control. I'm someone who's pretty low-ego and generally very honest with myself but still try to do that to make it seem like my principled disagreement about something was why something happened, rather than a more complicated chain of things. Butler also seems like someone who's really into that type of thing (in a good way).

Second, in this video Butler specifically mentions both a) Simmons being very upset about losing touches and b) him leaving because the team wasn't sure about him and was worried he wouldn't fit their personnel experiments. Both of those point directly to the Sixers being concerned about the fit of the 3 all-star guys that year. So the root cause could easily be that question of Simmons and touches.

You can come up with other narratives. Maybe Jimmy left because of aliens and now he's covering it up. All you have is the truth Jimmy has given here, Jimmy of all players is going to give you the truth. If you choose not to believe what jimmy is saying then you want to have a pretty solid line of evidence to refute it.

That feels like a weirdly defensive and dismissive response, but okay I can explain it again and in more detail if you want. Butler says in the video that he left because he heard the team was concerned about 'controlling' him, he doesn't explain why but you're right we should start with that. First what would have caused that feeling? Brett Brown is known as a particularly democratic and non-heavy-handed coach, and Redick in the video confirms that Butler didn't seem to be that difficult a guy to work with on the Sixers. So what would the Sixers be controlling, what tension would they be concerned about? Butler doesn't say and doesn't give us much to work with, the narrative he gives skips over it.

In the video the only tensions Butler talks about were Ben being heated about losing touches in the PO, and him saying TJ McConnell also wanted some more touches. Both those seem like they're more incidental things that came up in the flow of the conversation so I don't think they're giving you a clear answer. But even if you want them to they're both pointing towards some ongoing tensions with the Sixers around spreading out the ball on offense. Sure it's speculating to say that's the main reason there was tension, but Butler doesn't contradict that and there's clearly a TON of info and stories that aren't mentioned here. Then we also have Embiid's story, so I'm not sure why we think that Butler saying nothing about Simmons' feelings means that what Embiid says about it is false.

Also my point about how we reframe things isn't that JB (or I) make things up or make up fake narratives, it's that after the fact we all tell a simpler story to make sense of a more complicated heap of things. Like if at work I have 10 months worth of tension with someone about 50 things, most of it minor but some if it spilling into the open, and then that person finally quits over a small final argument--I'm not going to tell a story that goes into detail about every little disagreement or anything else. You just end up saying 'that person always had a serious attitude' or 'we were never in agreement about basic strategy.' (Clearer example might be breaking up with an ex, we can all remember multiple versions of stories we've told and re-told people over time about what happened there.) JB here said that he never felt quite right about the Sixers FO and his role there, and that they seemed to be inventing tension that he didn't think was there. But that leaves out many months of the individual arguments, grumblings, side-conversations, etc, plus a bunch of stuff the FO and other guys were talking about that didn't include him. Jimmy's story isn't about that cuz why would it be? End of the day, he didn't feel respected there or like he was a good fit so it didn't work out. Perfectly reasonable short narrative but it doesn't tell us the what and why at all.

Instead of blaming Simmons you could of taken his word and summed up the issue that he didn’t trust Brown as a leader

[TheNewEra]

That feels like a weirdly defensive and dismissive response, but okay I can explain it again and in more detail if you want. Butler says in the video that he left because he heard the team was concerned about 'controlling' him, he doesn't explain why but you're right we should start with that. First what would have caused that feeling? Brett Brown is known as a particularly democratic and non-heavy-handed coach, and Redick in the video confirms that Butler didn't seem to be that difficult a guy to work with on the Sixers. So what would the Sixers be controlling, what tension would they be concerned about? Butler doesn't say and doesn't give us much to work with, the narrative he gives skips over it.

In the video the only tensions Butler talks about were Ben being heated about losing touches in the PO, and him saying TJ McConnell also wanted some more touches. Both those seem like they're more incidental things that came up in the flow of the conversation so I don't think they're giving you a clear answer. But even if you want them to they're both pointing towards some ongoing tensions with the Sixers around spreading out the ball on offense. Sure it's speculating to say that's the main reason there was tension, but Butler doesn't contradict that and there's clearly a TON of info and stories that aren't mentioned here. Then we also have Embiid's story, so I'm not sure why we think that Butler saying nothing about Simmons' feelings means that what Embiid says about it is false.

Also my point about how we reframe things isn't that JB (or I) make things up or make up fake narratives, it's that after the fact we all tell a simpler story to make sense of a more complicated heap of things. Like if at work I have 10 months worth of tension with someone about 50 things, most of it minor but some if it spilling into the open, and then that person finally quits over a small final argument--I'm not going to tell a story that goes into detail about every little disagreement or anything else. You just end up saying 'that person always had a serious attitude' or 'we were never in agreement about basic strategy.' (Clearer example might be breaking up with an ex, we can all remember multiple versions of stories we've told and re-told people over time about what happened there.) JB here said that he never felt quite right about the Sixers FO and his role there, and that they seemed to be inventing tension that he didn't think was there. But that leaves out many months of the individual arguments, grumblings, side-conversations, etc, plus a bunch of stuff the FO and other guys were talking about that didn't include him. Jimmy's story isn't about that cuz why would it be? End of the day, he didn't feel respected there or like he was a good fit so it didn't work out. Perfectly reasonable short narrative but it doesn't tell us the what and why at all.

Jimmy highlighted the issue was a lack of leadership and a lack of communication in the locker room. I think Brown was the main problem here but apparently none of the guys spoke up.

He states that he wasn't played on ball enough during RS and that it caused a lot of tension between him and Brown. Then he said that switching himself on the ball in the playoffs was also a mistake. Not enough was developed to blend Jimmy into the team.

I think it's pretty obvious why Jimmy left, he'd also long been interested in Miami since sparking up a friendship with Wade in Chicago.

Sixers didn't get rid of Jimmy because of Ben.. it sounds like you agree with this too in your post.. therefore Joel's statement is untrue no matter how we slice it.

It's clear you have a narrative in your head alreayd, and are being stubborn, just because it didn't come from Jimmy's mouth. You realize people can still withhold information. Politicians do it all the time. Doctor's sugarcoat medical results often. Just because Jimmy didn't actually say it doesn't make it true. Maybe Jimmy didn't want to say it, because Joel told him not to. He knew that if Jimmy said that it would create a rift that would make Joel upset even more (because you know the media would ask for comment from Joel), and then it would make the last two seasons more awkward. Jimmy, JJ and Joel are good friends. You dont' think friends will protect Joel, so as not to make his life harder?

So it’s more logical to push your anti-Simmons narrative than take the words of someone that was there and spoke about the issue openly?

This is just like the Kyrie stuff lol when the media or fans hate you then anything can be twisted into a story.

[TheNewEra]

I get where you're going but I don't think it's that simple, for two reasons. First I've had plenty of work drama over the years and I definitely reframe narratives about what happened to make them simpler and more about my own values and control. I'm someone who's pretty low-ego and generally very honest with myself but still try to do that to make it seem like my principled disagreement about something was why something happened, rather than a more complicated chain of things. Butler also seems like someone who's really into that type of thing (in a good way).

Second, in this video Butler specifically mentions both a) Simmons being very upset about losing touches and b) him leaving because the team wasn't sure about him and was worried he wouldn't fit their personnel experiments. Both of those point directly to the Sixers being concerned about the fit of the 3 all-star guys that year. So the root cause could easily be that question of Simmons and touches.

You can come up with other narratives. Maybe Jimmy left because of aliens and now he's covering it up.

All you have is the truth Jimmy has given here, Jimmy of all players is going to give you the truth.nhes saying some very controversial things here, why would he say them? He doesn't have to speak at all.

If you choose not to believe what Jimmy is saying on the topic of why he left then you want to have a pretty solid line of evidence to refute it.

What exactly did you hear in that interview?

Butler said he was upset about someone asking if he could be controlled.

If that's what you heard, then what do you think was the reason behind whoever asking about whether he can be controlled? Either you think that came up because of stuff in Minnesota and Chicago, in which case, why do you think Philly would care about that since he's in Philly now and they should have been able to judge for themselves, or you think it came up because of friction between Butler and one or more other Sixers players, in which case you agree with the person you just disagreed with.

He just came off a season clashing with a coach and his decision making and you’re still looking for the target for what that really means? Even if the 76ers kept Butler and fired Brown due to the lack of leadership and direction they would still want someone who can keep Butler “under control”. Butler even snapped back that no one can control him clearly a shot at leadership

[jokeboy86]

The 76ers are a s**** at the moment but the thing is the GM and coach just got there so they can't be fired no matter what happens this season. I wonder does Embiid already regret signing that supermax last month.

[eyeatoma]

Jimmy highlighted the issue was a lack of leadership and a lack of communication in the locker room. I think Brown was the main problem here but apparently none of the guys spoke up.

He states that he wasn't played on ball enough during RS and that it caused a lot of tension between him and Brown. Then he said that switching himself on the ball in the playoffs was also a mistake. Not enough was developed to blend Jimmy into the team.

I think it's pretty obvious why Jimmy left, he'd also long been interested in Miami since sparking up a friendship with Wade in Chicago.

Sixers didn't get rid of Jimmy because of Ben.. it sounds like you agree with this too in your post.. therefore Joel's statement is untrue no matter how we slice it.

It's clear you have a narrative in your head alreayd, and are being stubborn, just because it didn't come from Jimmy's mouth. You realize people can still withhold information. Politicians do it all the time. Doctor's sugarcoat medical results often. Just because Jimmy didn't actually say it doesn't make it true. Maybe Jimmy didn't want to say it, because Joel told him not to. He knew that if Jimmy said that it would create a rift that would make Joel upset even more (because you know the media would ask for comment from Joel), and then it would make the last two seasons more awkward. Jimmy, JJ and Joel are good friends. You dont' think friends will protect Joel, so as not to make his life harder?

So it’s more logical to push your anti-Simmons narrative than take the words of someone that was there and spoke about the issue openly?

This is just like the Kyrie stuff lol when the media or fans hate you then anything can be twisted into a story.

You know you're doing the same thing by not believing the other person in Joel right? Joel held back for the betterment of the team all this time. Now that Ben has started saying he can't play with Jo, Jo is telling the truth about what actually happened. If Ben was still on the team, this information would never have gotten out.

Anti Simmons? Please tell me, are the majority of people pro Simmons at this point? Do you see anything in Simmons character, or ability as a player right now, for people to be pro Simmons? Everything he has done this summer paints him in a terrible light. When he was on the team, all I wanted was for him to get better as a player. To be more assertive, to take a few jumpers. Every time he would have a 25+ point game I was excited, but over the years I came to realize that he didn't' have it in him. I bought those summer videos the first few years hook, line and sinker. I then noticed, that it was all a ploy to change the narrative and get the media off his back. I gave Ben every chance he needed, and so did the Sixers as an organization. That includes Joel changing his game, the team not signing ball handlers because it would alienate Ben, and the previous regime **** on Joel, and siding with Ben.

[zimpy27]

That feels like a weirdly defensive and dismissive response, but okay I can explain it again and in more detail if you want. Butler says in the video that he left because he heard the team was concerned about 'controlling' him, he doesn't explain why but you're right we should start with that. First what would have caused that feeling? Brett Brown is known as a particularly democratic and non-heavy-handed coach, and Redick in the video confirms that Butler didn't seem to be that difficult a guy to work with on the Sixers. So what would the Sixers be controlling, what tension would they be concerned about? Butler doesn't say and doesn't give us much to work with, the narrative he gives skips over it.

In the video the only tensions Butler talks about were Ben being heated about losing touches in the PO, and him saying TJ McConnell also wanted some more touches. Both those seem like they're more incidental things that came up in the flow of the conversation so I don't think they're giving you a clear answer. But even if you want them to they're both pointing towards some ongoing tensions with the Sixers around spreading out the ball on offense. Sure it's speculating to say that's the main reason there was tension, but Butler doesn't contradict that and there's clearly a TON of info and stories that aren't mentioned here. Then we also have Embiid's story, so I'm not sure why we think that Butler saying nothing about Simmons' feelings means that what Embiid says about it is false.

Also my point about how we reframe things isn't that JB (or I) make things up or make up fake narratives, it's that after the fact we all tell a simpler story to make sense of a more complicated heap of things. Like if at work I have 10 months worth of tension with someone about 50 things, most of it minor but some if it spilling into the open, and then that person finally quits over a small final argument--I'm not going to tell a story that goes into detail about every little disagreement or anything else. You just end up saying 'that person always had a serious attitude' or 'we were never in agreement about basic strategy.' (Clearer example might be breaking up with an ex, we can all remember multiple versions of stories we've told and re-told people over time about what happened there.) JB here said that he never felt quite right about the Sixers FO and his role there, and that they seemed to be inventing tension that he didn't think was there. But that leaves out many months of the individual arguments, grumblings, side-conversations, etc, plus a bunch of stuff the FO and other guys were talking about that didn't include him. Jimmy's story isn't about that cuz why would it be? End of the day, he didn't feel respected there or like he was a good fit so it didn't work out. Perfectly reasonable short narrative but it doesn't tell us the what and why at all.

Jimmy highlighted the issue was a lack of leadership and a lack of communication in the locker room. I think Brown was the main problem here but apparently none of the guys spoke up.

He states that he wasn't played on ball enough during RS and that it caused a lot of tension between him and Brown. Then he said that switching himself on the ball in the playoffs was also a mistake. Not enough was developed to blend Jimmy into the team.

I think it's pretty obvious why Jimmy left, he'd also long been interested in Miami since sparking up a friendship with Wade in Chicago.

Sixers didn't get rid of Jimmy because of Ben.. it sounds like you agree with this too in your post.. therefore Joel's statement is untrue no matter how we slice it.

It's clear you have a narrative in your head alreayd, and are being stubborn, just because it didn't come from Jimmy's mouth. You realize people can still withhold information. Politicians do it all the time. Doctor's sugarcoat medical results often. Just because Jimmy didn't actually say it doesn't make it true. Maybe Jimmy didn't want to say it, because Joel told him not to. He knew that if Jimmy said that it would create a rift that would make Joel upset even more (because you know the media would ask for comment from Joel), and then it would make the last two seasons more awkward. Jimmy, JJ and Joel are good friends. You dont' think friends will protect Joel, so as not to make his life harder?

No I'm trying to clear up the narrative by giving Jimmy's actual reason for leaving.

You're narrative appears to be that Embiid doesn't like awkward things and that Jimmy had to change his story to protect his friend Embiid from making a comment.

That feels completely out of character for both guys.

[gipper08]

Sixers didn't get rid of Jimmy.

Jimmy left.

Wow. What a horrifically bad take. You really think you have more info than Joel???what arrogance.

They put Jimmy on the back of the bus during the season and then wouldn’t offer him max. That is getting rid of him.

[eyeatoma]

Jimmy highlighted the issue was a lack of leadership and a lack of communication in the locker room. I think Brown was the main problem here but apparently none of the guys spoke up.

He states that he wasn't played on ball enough during RS and that it caused a lot of tension between him and Brown. Then he said that switching himself on the ball in the playoffs was also a mistake. Not enough was developed to blend Jimmy into the team.

I think it's pretty obvious why Jimmy left, he'd also long been interested in Miami since sparking up a friendship with Wade in Chicago.

Sixers didn't get rid of Jimmy because of Ben.. it sounds like you agree with this too in your post.. therefore Joel's statement is untrue no matter how we slice it.

It's clear you have a narrative in your head alreayd, and are being stubborn, just because it didn't come from Jimmy's mouth. You realize people can still withhold information. Politicians do it all the time. Doctor's sugarcoat medical results often. Just because Jimmy didn't actually say it doesn't make it true. Maybe Jimmy didn't want to say it, because Joel told him not to. He knew that if Jimmy said that it would create a rift that would make Joel upset even more (because you know the media would ask for comment from Joel), and then it would make the last two seasons more awkward. Jimmy, JJ and Joel are good friends. You dont' think friends will protect Joel, so as not to make his life harder?

No I'm trying to clear up the narrative by giving Jimmy's actual reason for leaving.

You're narrative appears to be that Embiid doesn't like awkward things and that Jimmy had to change his story to protect his friend Embiid from making a comment.

That feels completely out of character for both guys.

NOpe that's not what I said. I said that Jo was already dealing with his best friend leaving the team, and Jimmy being an actual friend, knew that if he said the reason he left was Ben, it would make Jo's life harder. You can paint it however you like, but it's weird that you don't acknowledge that people can hold back on what they say and not be completely truthful. Joel has no problem with things being awkward. But he's not going to torpedo his team even more and say, hey Jimmy left because of you Ben. He knows if he said that, than any semblance of building a team around Jo and Ben would be a disaster. Jimmy also wouldn't do it, unless he was really mad at an organization (see the Wolves). Jimmy held back to make Jo's life easier. It happens all the time, why you're dismissing it in this case, is odd.

[Lalouie]

thats three seasons ago. it's a decision they had to make at the time.

did anyone back then think simmons was going to bypass a dunk?

[zimpy27]

It's clear you have a narrative in your head alreayd, and are being stubborn, just because it didn't come from Jimmy's mouth. You realize people can still withhold information. Politicians do it all the time. Doctor's sugarcoat medical results often. Just because Jimmy didn't actually say it doesn't make it true. Maybe Jimmy didn't want to say it, because Joel told him not to. He knew that if Jimmy said that it would create a rift that would make Joel upset even more (because you know the media would ask for comment from Joel), and then it would make the last two seasons more awkward. Jimmy, JJ and Joel are good friends. You dont' think friends will protect Joel, so as not to make his life harder?

So it’s more logical to push your anti-Simmons narrative than take the words of someone that was there and spoke about the issue openly?

This is just like the Kyrie stuff lol when the media or fans hate you then anything can be twisted into a story.

You know you're doing the same thing by not believing the other person in Joel right? Joel held back for the betterment of the team all this time. Now that Ben has started saying he can't play with Jo, Jo is telling the truth about what actually happened. If Ben was still on the team, this information would never have gotten out.

Anti Simmons? Please tell me, are the majority of people pro Simmons at this point? Do you see anything in Simmons character, or ability as a player right now, for people to be pro Simmons? Everything he has done this summer paints him in a terrible light. When he was on the team, all I wanted was for him to get better as a player. To be more assertive, to take a few jumpers. Every time he would have a 25+ point game I was excited, but over the years I came to realize that he didn't' have it in him. I bought those summer videos the first few years hook, line and sinker. I then noticed, that it was all a ploy to change the narrative and get the media off his back. I gave Ben every chance he needed, and so did the Sixers as an organization. That includes Joel changing his game, the team not signing ball handlers because it would alienate Ben, and the previous regime **** on Joel, and siding with Ben.

Actually. The best thing Joel could have done for them team would be to have these conversations with Ben and the team.

The worst thing Joel could do for the betterment for the team is publicly create problems between him and the player while the Sixers are trying to trade that player.

If Joel really cared about the team and not just himself then he'd make these comments after Simmons was traded.

[IAMZOOTED2]

FACTSFACTSFACTS. Joel spitting that fire. Burns like a mofo cause it's FACTS

[gipper08]

Jimmy tells you candidly why he left.. from his own mouth...

I get where you're going but I don't think it's that simple, for two reasons. First I've had plenty of work drama over the years and I definitely reframe narratives about what happened to make them simpler and more about my own values and control. I'm someone who's pretty low-ego and generally very honest with myself but still try to do that to make it seem like my principled disagreement about something was why something happened, rather than a more complicated chain of things. Butler also seems like someone who's really into that type of thing (in a good way).

Second, in this video Butler specifically mentions both a) Simmons being very upset about losing touches and b) him leaving because the team wasn't sure about him and was worried he wouldn't fit their personnel experiments. Both of those point directly to the Sixers being concerned about the fit of the 3 all-star guys that year. So the root cause could easily be that question of Simmons and touches.

You can come up with other narratives. Maybe Jimmy left because of aliens and now he's covering it up.

All you have is the truth Jimmy has given here, Jimmy of all players is going to give you the truth.nhes saying some very controversial things here, why would he say them? He doesn't have to speak at all.

If you choose not to believe what Jimmy is saying on the topic of why he left then you want to have a pretty solid line of evidence to refute it.

I hope you don’t really believe this. Did you even watch that year? Butler was standing in the corner warming his thumbs half the time. He was 5th option much of the time.

[flranger]

While I can blame Simmons the player, it's hard for me to blame him for how he has handled this after the season. He went through his representation to explain he was not playing in Philly any longer. He has (for now) been consistent. Once you have made that decision, and confirmed that decision to your employer, what is the value in further discussion. He's home chilling, right where he said he would be.

[eyeatoma]

So it’s more logical to push your anti-Simmons narrative than take the words of someone that was there and spoke about the issue openly?

This is just like the Kyrie stuff lol when the media or fans hate you then anything can be twisted into a story.

You know you're doing the same thing by not believing the other person in Joel right? Joel held back for the betterment of the team all this time. Now that Ben has started saying he can't play with Jo, Jo is telling the truth about what actually happened. If Ben was still on the team, this information would never have gotten out.

Anti Simmons? Please tell me, are the majority of people pro Simmons at this point? Do you see anything in Simmons character, or ability as a player right now, for people to be pro Simmons? Everything he has done this summer paints him in a terrible light. When he was on the team, all I wanted was for him to get better as a player. To be more assertive, to take a few jumpers. Every time he would have a 25+ point game I was excited, but over the years I came to realize that he didn't' have it in him. I bought those summer videos the first few years hook, line and sinker. I then noticed, that it was all a ploy to change the narrative and get the media off his back. I gave Ben every chance he needed, and so did the Sixers as an organization. That includes Joel changing his game, the team not signing ball handlers because it would alienate Ben, and the previous regime **** on Joel, and siding with Ben.

Actually. The best thing Joel could have done for them team would be to have these conversations with Ben and the team.

The worst thing Joel could do for the betterment for the team is publicly create problems between him and the player while the Sixers are trying to trade that player.

If Joel really cared about the team and not just himself then he'd make these comments after Simmons was traded.

Yet Ben can say all he wants about the team and Joel right? But Joel needs to take the high road? WTF?

[Jadoogar]

Elton Brand catching strays
Letting Jimmy walk was a mistake. People were just too enamored with Simmons' youth, this is why you don't assume that a young player will continue to improve just because they're young.

[zimpy27]

I get where you're going but I don't think it's that simple, for two reasons. First I've had plenty of work drama over the years and I definitely reframe narratives about what happened to make them simpler and more about my own values and control. I'm someone who's pretty low-ego and generally very honest with myself but still try to do that to make it seem like my principled disagreement about something was why something happened, rather than a more complicated chain of things. Butler also seems like someone who's really into that type of thing (in a good way).

Second, in this video Butler specifically mentions both a) Simmons being very upset about losing touches and b) him leaving because the team wasn't sure about him and was worried he wouldn't fit their personnel experiments. Both of those point directly to the Sixers being concerned about the fit of the 3 all-star guys that year. So the root cause could easily be that question of Simmons and touches.

You can come up with other narratives. Maybe Jimmy left because of aliens and now he's covering it up.

All you have is the truth Jimmy has given here, Jimmy of all players is going to give you the truth.nhes saying some very controversial things here, why would he say them? He doesn't have to speak at all.

If you choose not to believe what Jimmy is saying on the topic of why he left then you want to have a pretty solid line of evidence to refute it.

I hope you don’t really believe this. Did you even watch that year? Butler was standing in the corner warming his thumbs half the time. He was 5th option much of the time.

Just doubling down on what Jimmy said.

This is Jimmy vs Embiid. Sounds like you're saying Jimmy lied about his own reasoning for leaving.

[eyeatoma]

You can come up with other narratives. Maybe Jimmy left because of aliens and now he's covering it up.

All you have is the truth Jimmy has given here, Jimmy of all players is going to give you the truth.nhes saying some very controversial things here, why would he say them? He doesn't have to speak at all.

If you choose not to believe what Jimmy is saying on the topic of why he left then you want to have a pretty solid line of evidence to refute it.

I hope you don’t really believe this. Did you even watch that year? Butler was standing in the corner warming his thumbs half the time. He was 5th option much of the time.

Just doubling down on what Jimmy said.

This is Jimmy vs Embiid. Sounds like you're saying Jimmy lied about his own reasoning for leaving.

Yup, that;'s exactly what happened. Althought I wouldn't go as far as saying he was lying. He just didn't say the whole truth. Which you know, people do. Apparently in your world you only deal in absolutes. It's either the full truth, or nothing at all.

[DreamTeam09]

To say they built the team around Ben Simmons is a little false in my yes because if you wanted to build around Ben you would definitely be looking for a stretch 5 who you don't mind jacking up shots on the perimeter. Embiid can shoot but everyone on earth wants him to play inside more.

Ben has to be treated kinda like Westbrook where the team has to play 5 out when the ball is in his hands. Kinda like how Houston did when they got rid of capella and now over in LA, and AD being full time C, they'll be okay with Davis out on the perimeter a little bit more.

But I get how embidd can say hey we got rid of Jimmy for you, I'm sure that's validated in his and the teams eyes somehow

Again, any deal they get for Ben Simmons is probably a good deal for them. They can use the depth.

Heild + PG
Brogdon + wing
Ingram + filler