NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[Lalouie]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretending it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

you're missing the ancillary issues, like players feeling COMFORTABLE playing in a safe environment, whether that turns out to be overexaggerrated or not. there's also the issue of erring on the side of safety. yeah so we're in this state forever or until they get it stopped....so what.

as for the 55% thing you said, dollars to donuts you have misread. better put up that link!

if the nba mandated that every player wear the same brand shoes and if they don't they can't play, and 95% wear those shoes, then who is wrong, the nba, the 95%ers, or the dudes who want to wear their own shoes

[Pointgod]

NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated.

Link?

I just scrolled through the New York Times Twitter feed. I didn’t see this anywhere.

[Noodlesoop]

so wiggins and kyrie can take consolation that they remain true to themselves

Let them do their own research man, they know better than all the supposed ‘expert’ scientists. It’s their bodies so they don’t have to care about anybody else, jeez.

they can give the money back and alls well, dude.

"guys, i'll take your 20-30 million this year but i wont play cuz i don't wanna get vaxxed." - what do you think part of this is about anyway,,,,,jeez

I’m being sarcastic, anybody (Beal/flat earther etc) who thinks they know better than the experts is a complete moron.

[xdrta+]

Hospital congestion and unnecessary death seem like pretty good reasons to me.

So your opinion is to use public pressure/coercion to get people that have made a decision to not be vaccinated to be vaccinated?

At what point do you draw a line? At this point it's a personal decision - do you think the govt should have input into dangerous personal decisions? If a guy wants to eat 19 burgers a day and never workout, he's unnecessarily increasing his risk of death/hospitalization. If a school teacher decides to join the military, he increased his risk of death significantly (unless you're a Chicago public school teacher)

If the vaccine works and 99% of new cases are just unvaxxed people, it's not about contagiousness anymore. It's about deciding for oneself the risk they will endure, which coincidentally is how the world has almost always been.

Show me a few examples of someone not receiving emergency care because of a lack of hospital resources (due to unvaxxed covid patients taking up resources) This boogeyman is constantly touted but there's no real evidence. Hospitals routinely work at or near max capacity for profit reasons. It doesn't benefit them to have empty beds and doctors/nurses sitting around.

And okay say you're right and the stress on healthcare resources is the issue - if we could guarantee we had enough ICU beds/staff to ensure no one would go without care, would you still insist people take the vaccine/would you be in favor of lifting all restrictions?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/amp/Boise-woman-forced-Bay-Area-hospitals-COVID-16497266.php

No offense but you have absolutely no idea how the real world works. The best way to not cause these issues is to be proactive, which the vaccine allows for. It is not economically viable or sustainable to magically have enough resources appear every time a surge of covid, or any other disease/event requiring excess number of hospitalization happens. Sure, most medical facilities have protocols for such situations, but they are not meant to sustain surges lasting months or longer, and certainly not designed for crisis happening on a national or worldwide scale. What you are suggesting is that the world or even a nation, with a finite amount of resources available, can somehow ensure that we will always have enough to provide care at any and all times is a hypothetical that is not rooted in reality.

These horror stories are so common now they hardly get any press. This one is from Alabama, that bastion of "FREEDOMS."

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID

"Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.," the last paragraph of DeMonia's obituary reads...

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

[Black Jack]

The Karen community has gone overboard. ITS A FACT that these immune boosters that are mislabeled as vaccines do not stop transmission. What they claim to do is boost your immune system. So Kyrie, Isaac etc. not taking the jab is NO THREAT to anyone else.

Covid "vaccines" are not sterilizing. It's not like the smallpox vaccine that kills the virus. Guess what folks, you take the jab, you can STILL GET COVID. and yes, people with strong immune systems, like pro athletes, get it and recover quickly by and large. Yes the threat of long covid or even death exists; but the statistical risk of a Beale or Kyrie dying of covid incredibly small.

Sure, your grandma's immune system probably can use a boost from these vaccines. Pro athletes? gimme a break.

All the righteousness is a joke given these facts. Just read the freaking studies and research.

Guys like Fauci straight up lie on camera. He said he wasn't funding gain of function research in Wuhan, turns out he did. Guys like Scott Gottlieb are straight up corrupt, going straight from high govt office to the Pfizer board, openly advocating for kids to take the vax when they likely don't need it.

This whole thing is a liberal freakout. It's become total orthodoxy and 99% of the people commenting haven't taken the time to study the issue and just repeat the word "vaccine" over and over.

Newsflash, science doesn't know how to kill coronaviruses. Sure it would be nice. But the Pfizer / Moderna CEOs are straight up criminals, selling drugs as vaccines that aren't really vaccines, to the point of lobbying for kids to take them when studies aren't showing a need.

Big pharma is a big scam.

Strike: Derailing (Political rhetoric)

[Black Jack]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretending it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

The vaccine is not being pushed to eradicate. It is being pushed so because it slows the spread and allows hospitals to operate under maximum capacity. It could have eradicated if we saw a very high vaccination rate with some urgency, but as evidenced in other threads, evidence does not mean much to some

That stuff you think will beat this? Secondary to having available hospital capacity for those affected by COVID, and frankly, those with other respiratory illnesses that also require beds in respiratory ICU

Yes but the drugs on hand do NOT stop transmission. So that's the major lie being told by vax fundamentalists here. If the drugs stopped transmission I would condemn Kyrie etc. But the pro vaccine caucus keeps lying about this point!

[life_saver]

That's actually much higher than what I expected.

[Balls Deep]

NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated.

Link?

Cap.. all cap

[OkcSinceSGA]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretending it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

Ughhj i dont see such an article, you mean their article today that said 'mandate on vaccinations largely working ' lol.

The only data i found was about IRELAND where 54% hospitalized were vaxed but the country is 90%+ vaxed so clearly it helps reduce hospitalizations- if the other 10% accounts for half of hospitalizations.

Cite your 55% in america. Maybe you misread bc 55% americans are vaccinated. Otherwise dont spread misinformation.

It’s not an article, it’s their data sheet they update. But they put vaccinated percentage to the right of hospitalized and death tallies, which led me to believe that was referring to those categories, could just be the way the chart is. Regardless we’ve seen plenty of breakthrough recently in other highly vaxxed countries (Israel and Australia being most popular) and even states here.

Vermont is more vaxxed than anyone lately and they still saw a big spike recently. My overall point being breakthrough cases are happening at a higher rate potentially than they know (because they aren’t counting them). So forcing one to vaccinate or not in the NBA isn’t necessarily gonna stop a bunch of guys from ending up in protocols.

I personally think at this point 20 players in the NBA being unvaxxed won’t have much impact. These are pro athletes usually under 30, with no commorbidities. The number of American’s in the under 39 group that have died from Covid contributed situations (not even necessarily FROM Covid, some WITH) covid is less than 20k. The average number of commorbidities in people dying is between 3-4.

Covid is not a threat to these players. It’s not statistically a threat to their young children either. The CDC death count by age is available online. It isn’t me being a “conspiracy theorist”.

[FNQ]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretending it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

The vaccine is not being pushed to eradicate. It is being pushed so because it slows the spread and allows hospitals to operate under maximum capacity. It could have eradicated if we saw a very high vaccination rate with some urgency, but as evidenced in other threads, evidence does not mean much to some

That stuff you think will beat this? Secondary to having available hospital capacity for those affected by COVID, and frankly, those with other respiratory illnesses that also require beds in respiratory ICU

Yes but the drugs on hand do NOT stop transmission. So that's the major lie being told by vax fundamentalists here. If the drugs stopped transmission I would condemn Kyrie etc. But the pro vaccine caucus keeps lying about this point!

No, they don't. Vaccines, if deployed to a vast majority of the people, would eradicate COVID the same way we eradicated other diseases using the same modality. The vaccines now are less effective because of... well.. your mentality, and resistance to getting them. Prior vaccines would have failed the exact same way.

Is what it is

[FNQ]

That's actually much higher than what I expected.

Me too, I'm actually pleased with it. Way higher than the general population

[NyKnicks1714]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretending it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

Ughhj i dont see such an article, you mean their article today that said 'mandate on vaccinations largely working ' lol.

The only data i found was about IRELAND where 54% hospitalized were vaxed but the country is 90%+ vaxed so clearly it helps reduce hospitalizations- if the other 10% accounts for half of hospitalizations.

Cite your 55% in america. Maybe you misread bc 55% americans are vaccinated. Otherwise dont spread misinformation.

It’s not an article, it’s their data sheet they update.

Post a link to that then. Right now you're just spreading misinformation.

[jbk1234]

The Karen community has gone overboard. ITS A FACT that these immune boosters that are mislabeled as vaccines do not stop transmission. What they claim to do is boost your immune system. So Kyrie, Isaac etc. not taking the jab is NO THREAT to anyone else.

Covid "vaccines" are not sterilizing. It's not like the smallpox vaccine that kills the virus. Guess what folks, you take the jab, you can STILL GET COVID. and yes, people with strong immune systems, like pro athletes, get it and recover quickly by and large. Yes the threat of long covid or even death exists; but the statistical risk of a Beale or Kyrie dying of covid incredibly small.

Sure, your grandma's immune system probably can use a boost from these vaccines. Pro athletes? gimme a break.

All the righteousness is a joke given these facts. Just read the freaking studies and research.

Guys like Fauci straight up lie on camera. He said he wasn't funding gain of function research in Wuhan, turns out he did. Guys like Scott Gottlieb are straight up corrupt, going straight from high govt office to the Pfizer board, openly advocating for kids to take the vax when they likely don't need it.

This whole thing is a liberal freakout. It's become total orthodoxy and 99% of the people commenting haven't taken the time to study the issue and just repeat the word "vaccine" over and over.

Newsflash, science doesn't know how to kill coronaviruses. Sure it would be nice. But the Pfizer / Moderna CEOs are straight up criminals, selling drugs as vaccines that aren't really vaccines, to the point of lobbying for kids to take them when studies aren't showing a need.

Big pharma is a big scam.

Basically everything you've written here is erroneous.

You're 11 times more likely to die from Delta if you're unvaccinated. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-10/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid

You're 29 times more likely to be hospitalized if you're unvaccinated and 5 times more likely to catch Delta. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

Rural areas, which have a higher percentage of unvaccinated people, are in real trouble despite having less social interaction:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Black Jack]

The vaccine is not being pushed to eradicate. It is being pushed so because it slows the spread and allows hospitals to operate under maximum capacity. It could have eradicated if we saw a very high vaccination rate with some urgency, but as evidenced in other threads, evidence does not mean much to some

That stuff you think will beat this? Secondary to having available hospital capacity for those affected by COVID, and frankly, those with other respiratory illnesses that also require beds in respiratory ICU

Yes but the drugs on hand do NOT stop transmission. So that's the major lie being told by vax fundamentalists here. If the drugs stopped transmission I would condemn Kyrie etc. But the pro vaccine caucus keeps lying about this point!

No, they don't. Vaccines, if deployed to a vast majority of the people, would eradicate COVID the same way we eradicated other diseases using the same modality. The vaccines now are less effective because of... well.. your mentality, and resistance to getting them. Prior vaccines would have failed the exact same way.

Is what it is

Yeah, that's just a straightup lie. Fact is, even if we had near total vaccination there would STILL be covid and still be hospitalizations. I looked at the data, you did not. These vaccines are not sterilizing, that's science.

Proof? Look at Israel's data. They have near total vaccination yet a massive surge.

Here's another fact, Israeli studies showed that having recovered from covid like Beale has, gives 6 to 12x more protection than the "vaccines that are really immune boosters". The Karen community keeps ignoring this fact that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

[Hsker4Life]

So your opinion is to use public pressure/coercion to get people that have made a decision to not be vaccinated to be vaccinated?

At what point do you draw a line? At this point it's a personal decision - do you think the govt should have input into dangerous personal decisions? If a guy wants to eat 19 burgers a day and never workout, he's unnecessarily increasing his risk of death/hospitalization. If a school teacher decides to join the military, he increased his risk of death significantly (unless you're a Chicago public school teacher)

If the vaccine works and 99% of new cases are just unvaxxed people, it's not about contagiousness anymore. It's about deciding for oneself the risk they will endure, which coincidentally is how the world has almost always been.

Show me a few examples of someone not receiving emergency care because of a lack of hospital resources (due to unvaxxed covid patients taking up resources) This boogeyman is constantly touted but there's no real evidence. Hospitals routinely work at or near max capacity for profit reasons. It doesn't benefit them to have empty beds and doctors/nurses sitting around.

And okay say you're right and the stress on healthcare resources is the issue - if we could guarantee we had enough ICU beds/staff to ensure no one would go without care, would you still insist people take the vaccine/would you be in favor of lifting all restrictions?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/amp/Boise-woman-forced-Bay-Area-hospitals-COVID-16497266.php

No offense but you have absolutely no idea how the real world works. The best way to not cause these issues is to be proactive, which the vaccine allows for. It is not economically viable or sustainable to magically have enough resources appear every time a surge of covid, or any other disease/event requiring excess number of hospitalization happens. Sure, most medical facilities have protocols for such situations, but they are not meant to sustain surges lasting months or longer, and certainly not designed for crisis happening on a national or worldwide scale. What you are suggesting is that the world or even a nation, with a finite amount of resources available, can somehow ensure that we will always have enough to provide care at any and all times is a hypothetical that is not rooted in reality.

These horror stories are so common now they hardly get any press. This one is from Alabama, that bastion of "FREEDOMS."

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID

"Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.," the last paragraph of DeMonia's obituary reads...

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

That horror story is obviously not true.

[OkcSinceSGA]

The vaccine is not being pushed to eradicate. It is being pushed so because it slows the spread and allows hospitals to operate under maximum capacity. It could have eradicated if we saw a very high vaccination rate with some urgency, but as evidenced in other threads, evidence does not mean much to some

That stuff you think will beat this? Secondary to having available hospital capacity for those affected by COVID, and frankly, those with other respiratory illnesses that also require beds in respiratory ICU

Yes but the drugs on hand do NOT stop transmission. So that's the major lie being told by vax fundamentalists here. If the drugs stopped transmission I would condemn Kyrie etc. But the pro vaccine caucus keeps lying about this point!

No, they don't. Vaccines, if deployed to a vast majority of the people, would eradicate COVID the same way we eradicated other diseases using the same modality. The vaccines now are less effective because of... well.. your mentality, and resistance to getting them. Prior vaccines would have failed the exact same way.

Is what it is

Not even close to true. This vaccine is arguably “leaky” and only addresses the spike protein mechanism. Delta for example and Lambda, Mu etc mutated to get around as much dependence on the spike protein apparently, which is why they decimated vaccine prevention efficacy, and dropped it from 95% of Alpha to now 40-60% area. That’s in just 8 months dude.

The only way to eradicate it would be to be constantly tweaking/improving this vaccine and get very lucky with your educated guesses on the next mutation. Considering much less dangerous flu’s vaccines average like 40% efficacy or less now, what makes you think they will figure this one out?

[OkcSinceSGA]

The Karen community has gone overboard. ITS A FACT that these immune boosters that are mislabeled as vaccines do not stop transmission. What they claim to do is boost your immune system. So Kyrie, Isaac etc. not taking the jab is NO THREAT to anyone else.

Covid "vaccines" are not sterilizing. It's not like the smallpox vaccine that kills the virus. Guess what folks, you take the jab, you can STILL GET COVID. and yes, people with strong immune systems, like pro athletes, get it and recover quickly by and large. Yes the threat of long covid or even death exists; but the statistical risk of a Beale or Kyrie dying of covid incredibly small.

Sure, your grandma's immune system probably can use a boost from these vaccines. Pro athletes? gimme a break.

All the righteousness is a joke given these facts. Just read the freaking studies and research.

Guys like Fauci straight up lie on camera. He said he wasn't funding gain of function research in Wuhan, turns out he did. Guys like Scott Gottlieb are straight up corrupt, going straight from high govt office to the Pfizer board, openly advocating for kids to take the vax when they likely don't need it.

This whole thing is a liberal freakout. It's become total orthodoxy and 99% of the people commenting haven't taken the time to study the issue and just repeat the word "vaccine" over and over.

Newsflash, science doesn't know how to kill coronaviruses. Sure it would be nice. But the Pfizer / Moderna CEOs are straight up criminals, selling drugs as vaccines that aren't really vaccines, to the point of lobbying for kids to take them when studies aren't showing a need.

Big pharma is a big scam.

Basically everything you've written here is erroneous.

You're 11 times more likely to die from Delta if you're unvaccinated. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-10/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid

You're 29 times more likely to be hospitalized if you're unvaccinated and 5 times more likely to catch Delta. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

Rural areas, which have a higher percentage of unvaccinated people, are in real trouble despite having less social interaction:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

What about if you have had covid and have natural immunity? Doesn’t rural community also have way higher obesity, higher smoking rates etc? Correlation?

[Black Jack]

The Karen community has gone overboard. ITS A FACT that these immune boosters that are mislabeled as vaccines do not stop transmission. What they claim to do is boost your immune system. So Kyrie, Isaac etc. not taking the jab is NO THREAT to anyone else.

Covid "vaccines" are not sterilizing. It's not like the smallpox vaccine that kills the virus. Guess what folks, you take the jab, you can STILL GET COVID. and yes, people with strong immune systems, like pro athletes, get it and recover quickly by and large. Yes the threat of long covid or even death exists; but the statistical risk of a Beale or Kyrie dying of covid incredibly small.

Sure, your grandma's immune system probably can use a boost from these vaccines. Pro athletes? gimme a break.

All the righteousness is a joke given these facts. Just read the freaking studies and research.

Guys like Fauci straight up lie on camera. He said he wasn't funding gain of function research in Wuhan, turns out he did. Guys like Scott Gottlieb are straight up corrupt, going straight from high govt office to the Pfizer board, openly advocating for kids to take the vax when they likely don't need it.

This whole thing is a liberal freakout. It's become total orthodoxy and 99% of the people commenting haven't taken the time to study the issue and just repeat the word "vaccine" over and over.

Newsflash, science doesn't know how to kill coronaviruses. Sure it would be nice. But the Pfizer / Moderna CEOs are straight up criminals, selling drugs as vaccines that aren't really vaccines, to the point of lobbying for kids to take them when studies aren't showing a need.

Big pharma is a big scam.

Basically everything you've written here is erroneous.

You're 11 times more likely to die from Delta if you're unvaccinated. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-10/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid

You're 29 times more likely to be hospitalized if you're unvaccinated and 5 times more likely to catch Delta. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

Rural areas, which have a higher percentage of unvaccinated people, are in real trouble despite having less social interaction:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

You didn't address my points. I decribed what the vaccines do and don't do, to be precies:
- They DO boost immune response
- They DO NOT stop transmission
- They DO NOT stop re-infection

One more time: pro athletes have tip top immune systems. Rural America - I've been there. They're all fat and sick. Yeah they are getting tore up because they eat like crap, they're fat, they drink and do drugs. Sorry that's the truth.

Old, fat, sick, immune compromised people absolutely should take the Covid vax. Kyrie Irving? He's not at much risk. and here's the REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, don't skip over this: not taking these covid vaxes is NOT a threat to others! Kyrie and Isaac and Beale and Wiggins aren't risking anybody else's health!

Still waiting for someone to credibly dispute above.

[ANTETOKOUNBROS]

How can this be the case when it is known the vaccine is deadly? So either they are lying or the players have access to the real vaccine, not the one given to the general population who are dying from it. Right? Guys? Guys?

[bisme37]

This is such an important issue and I know people want to talk about it. People should feel free to give differing opinions but I'd love it if we could avoid putting out misinformation. It doesn't help anything at all. Just because you heard something doesn't make it true, and I doubt many of us on this basketball site are true experts on the subject.

So please help us out and avoid sayings things you're not 100% sure about, and please don't exaggerate in order to make points. Sometimes it's nice to listen and learn instead of giving strong opinions on complicated matters you aren't fully versed in.