NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[PlatinumState]

I said 100% of players will be vaxxed a month into the season. Looks like that might happen even faster
Worst case scenario 99%. Leaving 4-5 players who really dont wanna get it

[FNQ]

Yes but the drugs on hand do NOT stop transmission. So that's the major lie being told by vax fundamentalists here. If the drugs stopped transmission I would condemn Kyrie etc. But the pro vaccine caucus keeps lying about this point!

No, they don't. Vaccines, if deployed to a vast majority of the people, would eradicate COVID the same way we eradicated other diseases using the same modality. The vaccines now are less effective because of... well.. your mentality, and resistance to getting them. Prior vaccines would have failed the exact same way.

Is what it is

Not even close to true. This vaccine is arguably “leaky” and only addresses the spike protein mechanism. Delta for example and Lambda, Mu etc mutated to get around as much dependence on the spike protein apparently, which is why they decimated vaccine efficacy, and dropped it from 95% of Alpha to now 40-60% area. That’s in just 8 months dude.

The only way to eradicate it would be to be constantly tweaking/improving this vaccine and get very lucky with your educated guesses on the next mutation. Considering much less dangerous flu’s vaccines average like 40% efficacy or less now, what makes you think they will figure this one out?

lol not close to true

Ok, so tell me how the Delta variant occurred - how did we change from Alpha to Delta? And why? And be technical if you can, I'm very familiar

[FNQ]

Yeah, that's just a straightup lie. Fact is, even if we had near total vaccination there would STILL be covid and still be hospitalizations. I looked at the data, you did not. These vaccines are not sterilizing, that's science.

Proof? Look at Israel's data. They have near total vaccination yet a massive surge.

Here's another fact, Israeli studies showed that having recovered from covid like Beale has, gives 6 to 12x more protection than the "vaccines that are really immune boosters". The Karen community keeps ignoring this fact that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

"I looked at the data, you did not". Unreal. Looking at medical data was my job

Yeah, its not a lie actually. If we got to total vaccination NOW there still would be COVID because we now have a main variant, as well as side variants. However if we acted swiftly and avoided these nonsensical ramblings that have minimal understanding of how vaccines work and why they work, we'd be in way better shape. We might not have COVID entirely eradicated, but we'd have less variants and the variants we do have would be less prominent.

Here's an actual fact: immune systems vary from person to person, and the reason why studies are not used on this is because the variation from case to case makes an "average" guess irrelevant to the individual, while providing no useful data for solutions. But I'm starting to see where your anger is coming from, its just that you will distrust anything that comes from an established medical company in the US and are willing to believe incomplete data.

Thats not gonna work with me man, sorry

[Black Jack]

This is such an important issue and I know people want to talk about it. People should feel free to give differing opinions but I'd love it if we could avoid putting out misinformation. It doesn't help anything at all. Just because you heard something doesn't make it true, and I doubt many of us on this basketball site are true experts on the subject.

So please help us out and avoid sayings things you're not 100% sure about, and please don't exaggerate in order to make points. Sometimes it's nice to listen and learn instead of giving strong opinions on complicated matters you aren't fully versed in.

I just feel like the MRNA technology is still experimental. It never was approved for use before covid. Suddenly it gets emergency approval and all the liberal do gooders are trying to push for 100% vaccination in the US. Seems crazy considering US borders aren't closed. So vaxed and unvaxed will be passing viral variants around, forever. The vax doesn't kill the virus.

It's the religious certainty that sets me off. If you want to get vaxed, fine. But don't force it on everyone when it doesn't even kill the virus.

[Black Jack]

Yeah, that's just a straightup lie. Fact is, even if we had near total vaccination there would STILL be covid and still be hospitalizations. I looked at the data, you did not. These vaccines are not sterilizing, that's science.

Proof? Look at Israel's data. They have near total vaccination yet a massive surge.

Here's another fact, Israeli studies showed that having recovered from covid like Beale has, gives 6 to 12x more protection than the "vaccines that are really immune boosters". The Karen community keeps ignoring this fact that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

"I looked at the data, you did not". Unreal. Looking at medical data was my job

Yeah, its not a lie actually. If we got to total vaccination NOW there still would be COVID because we now have a main variant, as well as side variants. However if we acted swiftly and avoided these nonsensical ramblings that have minimal understanding of how vaccines work and why they work, we'd be in way better shape. We might not have COVID entirely eradicated, but we'd have less variants and the variants we do have would be less prominent.

Here's an actual fact: immune systems vary from person to person, and the reason why studies are not used on this is because the variation from case to case makes an "average" guess irrelevant to the individual, while providing no useful data for solutions. But I'm starting to see where your anger is coming from, its just that you will distrust anything that comes from an established medical company in the US and are willing to believe incomplete data.

Thats not gonna work with me man, sorry

Tell the truth: what is the real risk of Kyrie, Isaac, and a few others being unvaxed. You think we need 100% forced coverage in the entire country, really?

[jbk1234]

The Karen community has gone overboard. ITS A FACT that these immune boosters that are mislabeled as vaccines do not stop transmission. What they claim to do is boost your immune system. So Kyrie, Isaac etc. not taking the jab is NO THREAT to anyone else.

Covid "vaccines" are not sterilizing. It's not like the smallpox vaccine that kills the virus. Guess what folks, you take the jab, you can STILL GET COVID. and yes, people with strong immune systems, like pro athletes, get it and recover quickly by and large. Yes the threat of long covid or even death exists; but the statistical risk of a Beale or Kyrie dying of covid incredibly small.

Sure, your grandma's immune system probably can use a boost from these vaccines. Pro athletes? gimme a break.

All the righteousness is a joke given these facts. Just read the freaking studies and research.

Guys like Fauci straight up lie on camera. He said he wasn't funding gain of function research in Wuhan, turns out he did. Guys like Scott Gottlieb are straight up corrupt, going straight from high govt office to the Pfizer board, openly advocating for kids to take the vax when they likely don't need it.

This whole thing is a liberal freakout. It's become total orthodoxy and 99% of the people commenting haven't taken the time to study the issue and just repeat the word "vaccine" over and over.

Newsflash, science doesn't know how to kill coronaviruses. Sure it would be nice. But the Pfizer / Moderna CEOs are straight up criminals, selling drugs as vaccines that aren't really vaccines, to the point of lobbying for kids to take them when studies aren't showing a need.

Big pharma is a big scam.

Basically everything you've written here is erroneous.

You're 11 times more likely to die from Delta if you're unvaccinated. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-10/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid

You're 29 times more likely to be hospitalized if you're unvaccinated and 5 times more likely to catch Delta. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

Rural areas, which have a higher percentage of unvaccinated people, are in real trouble despite having less social interaction:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

You didn't address my points. I decribed what the vaccines do and don't do, to be precies:
- They DO boost immune response
- They DO NOT stop transmission
- They DO NOT stop re-infection

One more time: pro athletes have tip top immune systems. Rural America - I've been there. They're all fat and sick. Yeah they are getting tore up because they eat like crap, they're fat, they drink and do drugs. Sorry that's the truth.

Old, fat, sick, immune compromised people absolutely should take the Covid vax. Kyrie Irving? He's not at much risk. and here's the REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, don't skip over this: not taking these covid vaxes is NOT a threat to others! Kyrie and Isaac and Beale and Wiggins aren't risking anybody else's health!

Still waiting for someone to credibly dispute above.

No vaccine kills the virus. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines introduce dead virus strains which allows your immune system to develop antibodies in response. When they encounter a live virus strain you've already got the blueprint. No vaccine provides 100% immunity forever. Natural immunity doesn't give you 100% immunity forever. But hey, if you're good being 11 times more likely to die, 29 times more likely to be hospitalized, more likely to catch and more likely to transmit it, because it's not perfect, you do you. Just wear one of those *pure blood* shirts so I can cross the street.

[FNQ]

Yeah, that's just a straightup lie. Fact is, even if we had near total vaccination there would STILL be covid and still be hospitalizations. I looked at the data, you did not. These vaccines are not sterilizing, that's science.

Proof? Look at Israel's data. They have near total vaccination yet a massive surge.

Here's another fact, Israeli studies showed that having recovered from covid like Beale has, gives 6 to 12x more protection than the "vaccines that are really immune boosters". The Karen community keeps ignoring this fact that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

"I looked at the data, you did not". Unreal. Looking at medical data was my job

Yeah, its not a lie actually. If we got to total vaccination NOW there still would be COVID because we now have a main variant, as well as side variants. However if we acted swiftly and avoided these nonsensical ramblings that have minimal understanding of how vaccines work and why they work, we'd be in way better shape. We might not have COVID entirely eradicated, but we'd have less variants and the variants we do have would be less prominent.

Here's an actual fact: immune systems vary from person to person, and the reason why studies are not used on this is because the variation from case to case makes an "average" guess irrelevant to the individual, while providing no useful data for solutions. But I'm starting to see where your anger is coming from, its just that you will distrust anything that comes from an established medical company in the US and are willing to believe incomplete data.

Thats not gonna work with me man, sorry

Tell the truth: what is the real risk of Kyrie, Isaac, and a few others being unvaxed. You think we need 100% forced coverage in the entire country, really?

What is the risk of them being unvaccinated? As public people, more than you or I. However on a surface level, and to answer your next question, its minimal at the individual level. However, we're not at the individual level. And more importantly, having an opinion on COVID is all fine and dandy, but putting in public leaves it available for scrutiny.

I understand what you're saying, I do. But if you want to chide public response because those guys are making decisions that are not supported by the numerous studies out there, then you are farting into the wind man. These guys will be rightly criticized for not following the science that the vaccines are safe, and are effective. And as vaccines, they are most effective when they are applied quickly and in great number.

Now if you're talking about the NBA boxing them out, that's absolutely the NBA's prerogative in trying to create an area with the least amount of health risk possible. And its certainly the prerogative of local authorities to do what they see is necessary to stem this issue for the sake of local health. Thats a whole other ball of wax though

[ShootersShoot]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sfgate.com/coronavirus/amp/Boise-woman-forced-Bay-Area-hospitals-COVID-16497266.php

No offense but you have absolutely no idea how the real world works. The best way to not cause these issues is to be proactive, which the vaccine allows for. It is not economically viable or sustainable to magically have enough resources appear every time a surge of covid, or any other disease/event requiring excess number of hospitalization happens. Sure, most medical facilities have protocols for such situations, but they are not meant to sustain surges lasting months or longer, and certainly not designed for crisis happening on a national or worldwide scale. What you are suggesting is that the world or even a nation, with a finite amount of resources available, can somehow ensure that we will always have enough to provide care at any and all times is a hypothetical that is not rooted in reality.

These horror stories are so common now they hardly get any press. This one is from Alabama, that bastion of "FREEDOMS."

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID

"Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.," the last paragraph of DeMonia's obituary reads...

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

That horror story is obviously not true.

The guy's literal obituary said that and it was linked in the article.

[FNQ]

This is such an important issue and I know people want to talk about it. People should feel free to give differing opinions but I'd love it if we could avoid putting out misinformation. It doesn't help anything at all. Just because you heard something doesn't make it true, and I doubt many of us on this basketball site are true experts on the subject.

So please help us out and avoid sayings things you're not 100% sure about, and please don't exaggerate in order to make points. Sometimes it's nice to listen and learn instead of giving strong opinions on complicated matters you aren't fully versed in.

I just feel like the MRNA technology is still experimental. It never was approved for use before covid. Suddenly it gets emergency approval and all the liberal do gooders are trying to push for 100% vaccination in the US. Seems crazy considering US borders aren't closed. So vaxed and unvaxed will be passing viral variants around, forever. The vax doesn't kill the virus.

It's the religious certainty that sets me off. If you want to get vaxed, fine. But don't force it on everyone when it doesn't even kill the virus.

Ok this is good, I've had this convo many many times.

Now mRNA has been toyed with since the 1970s, and has gone through long-term rigorous testing. You are correct - never in humans - but it has checked off every box along the way. Even if COVID never happened, mRNA vaccines were being tested and were coming soon. Thing was, the need wasn't there to hustle it through. This one was hustled through, and is now DFA approved. Is there anything specific about mRNA stuff that concerns you? Long term issues, short term issues, etc?

[Black Jack]

Basically everything you've written here is erroneous.

You're 11 times more likely to die from Delta if you're unvaccinated. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-10/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid

You're 29 times more likely to be hospitalized if you're unvaccinated and 5 times more likely to catch Delta. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

Rural areas, which have a higher percentage of unvaccinated people, are in real trouble despite having less social interaction:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

You didn't address my points. I decribed what the vaccines do and don't do, to be precies:
- They DO boost immune response
- They DO NOT stop transmission
- They DO NOT stop re-infection

One more time: pro athletes have tip top immune systems. Rural America - I've been there. They're all fat and sick. Yeah they are getting tore up because they eat like crap, they're fat, they drink and do drugs. Sorry that's the truth.

Old, fat, sick, immune compromised people absolutely should take the Covid vax. Kyrie Irving? He's not at much risk. and here's the REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, don't skip over this: not taking these covid vaxes is NOT a threat to others! Kyrie and Isaac and Beale and Wiggins aren't risking anybody else's health!

Still waiting for someone to credibly dispute above.

No vaccine kills the virus. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines introduce dead virus strains which allows your immune system to develop antibodies in response. When they encounter a live virus strain you've already got the blueprint. No vaccine provides 100% immunity forever. Natural immunity doesn't give you 100% immunity forever. But hey, if you're good being 11 times more likely to die, 29 times more likely to be hospitalized, more likely to catch and more likely to transmit it, because it's not perfect, you do you. Just wear one of those *pure blood* shirts so I can cross the street.

I had the virus, it took me 3 days to fight it off. Turns out all the vitamin D, zinc etc. I take worked.

I hope you enjoy booster shots every 8 moths, Pfizer's daily pill etc. Pretty sure the Pfizer and Moderna CEOs will roll out an implant that drips their MRNA love into your bloodstream every second soon too. As for me... I'm fine with not being on the iPhone subscription model for immune system boosters. I'll go with 2 million years of evolution over this experimental MRNA crap.

[bisme37]

This is such an important issue and I know people want to talk about it. People should feel free to give differing opinions but I'd love it if we could avoid putting out misinformation. It doesn't help anything at all. Just because you heard something doesn't make it true, and I doubt many of us on this basketball site are true experts on the subject.

So please help us out and avoid sayings things you're not 100% sure about, and please don't exaggerate in order to make points. Sometimes it's nice to listen and learn instead of giving strong opinions on complicated matters you aren't fully versed in.

I just feel like the MRNA technology is still experimental. It never was approved for use before covid. Suddenly it gets emergency approval and all the liberal do gooders are trying to push for 100% vaccination in the US. Seems crazy considering US borders aren't closed. So vaxed and unvaxed will be passing viral variants around, forever. The vax doesn't kill the virus.

It's the religious certainty that sets me off. If you want to get vaxed, fine. But don't force it on everyone when it doesn't even kill the virus.

Well I don't think anyone anywhere has said the vaccine kills the virus in all cases. It doesn't. The benefits are it reduces your chance of getting covid, which in turn reduces your chance of spreading covid, and it also significantly reduces your chance of being hospitalized or dying because of covid. So that's why so many people advocate for getting vaccinated. It's not a magic bullet but it makes a lot of sense if you stop getting hung up on minor points of the debate. Imo.

[OkcSinceSGA]

No, they don't. Vaccines, if deployed to a vast majority of the people, would eradicate COVID the same way we eradicated other diseases using the same modality. The vaccines now are less effective because of... well.. your mentality, and resistance to getting them. Prior vaccines would have failed the exact same way.

Is what it is

Not even close to true. This vaccine is arguably “leaky” and only addresses the spike protein mechanism. Delta for example and Lambda, Mu etc mutated to get around as much dependence on the spike protein apparently, which is why they decimated vaccine efficacy, and dropped it from 95% of Alpha to now 40-60% area. That’s in just 8 months dude.

The only way to eradicate it would be to be constantly tweaking/improving this vaccine and get very lucky with your educated guesses on the next mutation. Considering much less dangerous flu’s vaccines average like 40% efficacy or less now, what makes you think they will figure this one out?

lol not close to true

Ok, so tell me how the Delta variant occurred - how did we change from Alpha to Delta? And why? And be technical if you can, I'm very familiar

I don’t know exactly what is responsible. Nobody does right? There are various theories. I do believe from the studies I’ve read that it’s plausible that both vaccines, and the unvaccinated, are creating viral escape, and mutations.

I also know from even brief study of all major plagues/pandemics going back to ancient history they typically become less virulent for the sake of more contagion to improve their replication chances. Yet we continue acting like putting everyone on lockdown and eradicating covid is the best strategy.

Even very pro vax scientists have questioned the methods of our government right now. Hell the FDA panel just recommended against boosters in a conference because the data didn’t support it, and the White House ignored that. I don’t need to know virology precise mechanisms to know a lot of money is on the line for politicians linked to Pfizer (whom have literally been fined billions for paying off scientists and studies).

[FNQ]

Pretty sure the Pfizer and Moderna CEOs will roll out an implant that drips their MRNA love into your bloodstream every second soon too. As for me... I'm fine with not being on the iPhone subscription model for immune system boosters. I'll go with 2 million years of evolution over this experimental MRNA crap.

On second thought, nevermind my offer, best of luck

[W_HAMILTON]

Spoiler:

It’s not an article, it’s their data sheet they update. But they put vaccinated percentage to the right of hospitalized and death tallies, which led me to believe that was referring to those categories, could just be the way the chart is. Regardless we’ve seen plenty of breakthrough recently in other highly vaxxed countries (Israel and Australia being most popular) and even states here.

Vermont is more vaxxed than anyone lately and they still saw a big spike recently. My overall point being breakthrough cases are happening at a higher rate potentially than they know (because they aren’t counting them). So forcing one to vaccinate or not in the NBA isn’t necessarily gonna stop a bunch of guys from ending up in protocols.

I personally think at this point 20 players in the NBA being unvaxxed won’t have much impact. These are pro athletes usually under 30, with no commorbidities. The number of American’s in the under 39 group that have died from Covid contributed situations (not even necessarily FROM Covid, some WITH) covid is less than 20k. The average number of commorbidities in people dying is between 3-4.

Covid is not a threat to these players. It’s not statistically a threat to their young children either. The CDC death count by age is available online. It isn’t me being a “conspiracy theorist”.

So, you were absolutely, entirely, utterly wrong -- and you just spouted off your wrongness like it was nothing.

"""Internet experts""" like yourself are the problem.

[Black Jack]

This is such an important issue and I know people want to talk about it. People should feel free to give differing opinions but I'd love it if we could avoid putting out misinformation. It doesn't help anything at all. Just because you heard something doesn't make it true, and I doubt many of us on this basketball site are true experts on the subject.

So please help us out and avoid sayings things you're not 100% sure about, and please don't exaggerate in order to make points. Sometimes it's nice to listen and learn instead of giving strong opinions on complicated matters you aren't fully versed in.

I just feel like the MRNA technology is still experimental. It never was approved for use before covid. Suddenly it gets emergency approval and all the liberal do gooders are trying to push for 100% vaccination in the US. Seems crazy considering US borders aren't closed. So vaxed and unvaxed will be passing viral variants around, forever. The vax doesn't kill the virus.

It's the religious certainty that sets me off. If you want to get vaxed, fine. But don't force it on everyone when it doesn't even kill the virus.

Well I don't think anyone anywhere has said the vaccine kills the virus in all cases in all cases. It doesn't. The benefits are it reduces your chance of getting covid, which in turn reduces your chance of spreading covid, and it also significantly reduces your chance of being hospitalized or dying because of covid. So that's why so many people advocate for getting vaccinated. It's not a magic bullet but it makes a lot of sense if you stop getting hung up on minor points of the debate. Imo.

There needs to be some reality i this discussion though: pro athletes, who probably had the virus already like Beale....don't have the same risk profile. If you're 300 pounds get the vax. If you're in tip top shape you have minimal risk either way. The mass media message to get vaxed isn't realistic on this point.

[jbk1234]

You didn't address my points. I decribed what the vaccines do and don't do, to be precies:
- They DO boost immune response
- They DO NOT stop transmission
- They DO NOT stop re-infection

One more time: pro athletes have tip top immune systems. Rural America - I've been there. They're all fat and sick. Yeah they are getting tore up because they eat like crap, they're fat, they drink and do drugs. Sorry that's the truth.

Old, fat, sick, immune compromised people absolutely should take the Covid vax. Kyrie Irving? He's not at much risk. and here's the REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, don't skip over this: not taking these covid vaxes is NOT a threat to others! Kyrie and Isaac and Beale and Wiggins aren't risking anybody else's health!

Still waiting for someone to credibly dispute above.

No vaccine kills the virus. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines introduce dead virus strains which allows your immune system to develop antibodies in response. When they encounter a live virus strain you've already got the blueprint. No vaccine provides 100% immunity forever. Natural immunity doesn't give you 100% immunity forever. But hey, if you're good being 11 times more likely to die, 29 times more likely to be hospitalized, more likely to catch and more likely to transmit it, because it's not perfect, you do you. Just wear one of those *pure blood* shirts so I can cross the street.

I had the virus, it took me 3 days to fight it off. Turns out all the vitamin D, zinc etc. I take worked.

I hope you enjoy booster shots every 8 moths, Pfizer's daily pill etc. Pretty sure the Pfizer and Moderna CEOs will roll out an implant that drips their MRNA love into your bloodstream every second soon too. As for me... I'm fine with not being on the iPhone subscription model for immune system boosters. I'll go with 2 million years of evolution over this experimental MRNA crap.

Fun fact, only the survivors of plagues passed along their DNA to continue the evolutionary process. There were millions who didn't.

[OkcSinceSGA]

I just feel like the MRNA technology is still experimental. It never was approved for use before covid. Suddenly it gets emergency approval and all the liberal do gooders are trying to push for 100% vaccination in the US. Seems crazy considering US borders aren't closed. So vaxed and unvaxed will be passing viral variants around, forever. The vax doesn't kill the virus.

It's the religious certainty that sets me off. If you want to get vaxed, fine. But don't force it on everyone when it doesn't even kill the virus.

Well I don't think anyone anywhere has said the vaccine kills the virus in all cases in all cases. It doesn't. The benefits are it reduces your chance of getting covid, which in turn reduces your chance of spreading covid, and it also significantly reduces your chance of being hospitalized or dying because of covid. So that's why so many people advocate for getting vaccinated. It's not a magic bullet but it makes a lot of sense if you stop getting hung up on minor points of the debate. Imo.

There needs to be some reality i this discussion though: pro athletes, who probably had the virus already like Beale....don't have the same risk profile. If you're 300 pounds get the vax. If you're in tip top shape you have minimal risk either way. The mass media message to get vaxed isn't realistic on this point.

That’s how I feel. If you’re 40 and younger without co morbidities the benefit is less and you should be allowed to chose. If you’re a senior or have a bunch of commorbidities I recommend the vaccine. It should be an individual thing with your Dr, not a government imposed mandate.

I’m 35 and don’t have health conditions. I’ve had covid. My 3 year old daughter has an even less chance than me of ending up sick or dead from it.

[FNQ]

Not even close to true. This vaccine is arguably “leaky” and only addresses the spike protein mechanism. Delta for example and Lambda, Mu etc mutated to get around as much dependence on the spike protein apparently, which is why they decimated vaccine efficacy, and dropped it from 95% of Alpha to now 40-60% area. That’s in just 8 months dude.

The only way to eradicate it would be to be constantly tweaking/improving this vaccine and get very lucky with your educated guesses on the next mutation. Considering much less dangerous flu’s vaccines average like 40% efficacy or less now, what makes you think they will figure this one out?

lol not close to true

Ok, so tell me how the Delta variant occurred - how did we change from Alpha to Delta? And why? And be technical if you can, I'm very familiar

I don’t know exactly what is responsible. Nobody does right? There are various theories. I do believe from the studies I’ve read that it’s plausible that both vaccines, and the unvaccinated, are creating viral escape, and mutations.

I also know from even brief study of all major plagues/pandemics going back to ancient history they typically become less virulent for the sake of more contagion to improve their replication chances. Yet we continue acting like putting everyone on lockdown and eradicating covid is the best strategy.

Even very pro vax scientists have questioned the methods of our government right now. Hell the FDA panel just recommended against boosters in a conference because the data didn’t support it, and the White House ignored that. I don’t need to know virology precise mechanisms to know a lot of money is on the line for politicians linked to Pfizer (whom have literally been fined billions for paying off scientists and studies).

Evolution / fight for survival is a pretty good guess. (I was looking for generals, not specifics on that. If you do ever figure that one out though..)

But it seems like you're trying to tie this back to Big Pharma (and by that end, politicians) as a scheme to profit tremendously off this while there's a better way to handle it. If I'm wrong there let me know, could be more nuanced than that, but thats what it sounds like. If so, I really cant see the point of going further. It sounded like to me that you had some really indepth knowledge about virology, vaccines, biology etc..

I will say this though: what's the timeline on the virus becoming less virulent over time of their own accord? Because history has some *really* troubling timelines in those cases

[BoatsNZones]

Basically everything you've written here is erroneous.

You're 11 times more likely to die from Delta if you're unvaccinated. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-09-10/cdc-finds-unvaccinated-11-times-more-likely-to-die-of-covid

You're 29 times more likely to be hospitalized if you're unvaccinated and 5 times more likely to catch Delta. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

Vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus. https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/

Rural areas, which have a higher percentage of unvaccinated people, are in real trouble despite having less social interaction:

Read on Twitter

?s=20

You didn't address my points. I decribed what the vaccines do and don't do, to be precies:
- They DO boost immune response
- They DO NOT stop transmission
- They DO NOT stop re-infection

One more time: pro athletes have tip top immune systems. Rural America - I've been there. They're all fat and sick. Yeah they are getting tore up because they eat like crap, they're fat, they drink and do drugs. Sorry that's the truth.

Old, fat, sick, immune compromised people absolutely should take the Covid vax. Kyrie Irving? He's not at much risk. and here's the REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, don't skip over this: not taking these covid vaxes is NOT a threat to others! Kyrie and Isaac and Beale and Wiggins aren't risking anybody else's health!

Still waiting for someone to credibly dispute above.

No vaccine kills the virus. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines introduce dead virus strains which allows your immune system to develop antibodies in response. When they encounter a live virus strain you've already got the blueprint. No vaccine provides 100% immunity forever. Natural immunity doesn't give you 100% immunity forever. But hey, if you're good being 11 times more likely to die, 29 times more likely to be hospitalized, more likely to catch and more likely to transmit it, because it's not perfect, you do you. Just wear one of those *pure blood* shirts so I can cross the street.

Just for clarity, mRNA vaccines work differently. There's no actual viral load given to your body, just "instructions" for your cells to create spike proteins that replicate Covid's, and in turn create B cells (and eventually T "memory" cells... more so when it is reintroduced in short order with a second shot) for protection. The mRNA is then killed (it never actually enters a cell membrane and cannot effect a persons DNA... for those still out there who may think that) and you're left with the antibodies (hopefully as many T's as possible for longer lasting effects). They've been working on mRNA vaccines for decades and the quick introduction of it finally during Covid was due in large part to the fact that it was during a pandemic and the amount of test subjects (relative to prior viruses being studied) were readily available (plus the funding for it was predictably massive relative to priors).

While it's not a perfect solution by any means, it is proving to be extremely safe and relatively effective. The counter that these players are extremely low-risk from Covid is also correct, but it's still far higher than any side effects they would have to worry about concerning the vaccine (which is why the concern is so strange to me).

Large groups of people opposing vaccines dates back to all countries since the inception of vaccines, though. The fact that it is occurring with Covid as well should shock no one. The fact of the matter is that those on the side of vaccine (and predominance of science) have been proven correct in every situation to date.

[Pointgod]

This is such an important issue and I know people want to talk about it. People should feel free to give differing opinions but I'd love it if we could avoid putting out misinformation. It doesn't help anything at all. Just because you heard something doesn't make it true, and I doubt many of us on this basketball site are true experts on the subject.

So please help us out and avoid sayings things you're not 100% sure about, and please don't exaggerate in order to make points. Sometimes it's nice to listen and learn instead of giving strong opinions on complicated matters you aren't fully versed in.

Well that’s the problem with being an antivaxxer. None of the data, science or facts really support the position. So the only way to justify their own personal decision not to get vaxxed is lie and push misinformation. There’s a perverse thinking behind vaccines are a personal choice, not let me post of a bunch of lies and misinterpret data to discourage others from making their own personal choice.