NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[Da ThRONe]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretend

ing it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

Ughhj i dont see such an article, you mean their article today that said 'mandate on vaccinations largely working ' lol.

The only data i found was about IRELAND where 54% hospitalized were vaxed but the country is 90%+ vaxed so clearly it helps reduce hospitalizations- if the other 10% accounts for half of hospitalizations.

Cite your 55% in america. Maybe you misread bc 55% americans are vaccinated. Otherwise dont spread misinformation.

It’s not an article, it’s their data sheet they update. But they put vaccinated percentage to the right of hospitalized and death tallies, which led me to believe that was referring to those categories, could just be the way the chart is. Regardless we’ve seen plenty of breakthrough recently in other highly vaxxed countries (Israel and Australia being most popular) and even states here.

Vermont is more vaxxed than anyone lately and they still saw a big spike recently. My overall point being breakthrough cases are happening at a higher rate potentially than they know (because they aren’t counting them). So forcing one to vaccinate or not in the NBA isn’t necessarily gonna stop a bunch of guys from ending up in protocols.

I personally think at this point 20 players in the NBA being unvaxxed won’t have much impact. These are pro athletes usually under 30, with no commorbidities. The number of American’s in the under 39 group that have died from Covid contributed situations (not even necessarily FROM Covid, some WITH) covid is less than 20k. The average number of commorbidities in people dying is between 3-4.

Covid is not a threat to these players. It’s not statistically a threat to their young children either. The CDC death count by age is available online. It isn’t me being a “conspiracy theorist”.

Add Singapore to that list. High vaccination something like 90% and are seeing a spike in "cases".

[Black Jack]

No vaccine kills the virus. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines introduce dead virus strains which allows your immune system to develop antibodies in response. When they encounter a live virus strain you've already got the blueprint. No vaccine provides 100% immunity forever. Natural immunity doesn't give you 100% immunity forever. But hey, if you're good being 11 times more likely to die, 29 times more likely to be hospitalized, more likely to catch and more likely to transmit it, because it's not perfect, you do you. Just wear one of those *pure blood* shirts so I can cross the street.

I had the virus, it took me 3 days to fight it off. Turns out all the vitamin D, zinc etc. I take worked.

I hope you enjoy booster shots every 8 moths, Pfizer's daily pill etc. Pretty sure the Pfizer and Moderna CEOs will roll out an implant that drips their MRNA love into your bloodstream every second soon too. As for me... I'm fine with not being on the iPhone subscription model for immune system boosters. I'll go with 2 million years of evolution over this experimental MRNA crap.

Fun fact, only the survivors of plagues passed along their DNA to continue the evolutionary process. There were millions who didn't.

The black plague's death rate was comically higher than covid. This isn't the apocalyptic virus you're looking for - but give Fauci and his mad scientist buddies time, if they get to keep doing research INTENDED TO CREATE superviruses*, one will indeed emerge.

* see https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/

[MoneyTalks41890]

New data, so we can retire the talking point that vaccinated folks spread at the same rate, they don’t.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[haosmoove]

You didn't address my points. I decribed what the vaccines do and don't do, to be precies:
- They DO boost immune response
- They DO NOT stop transmission
- They DO NOT stop re-infection

The rate of transmission and re-infection is much lower if you can vaccinated. You seem to conveniently leave that part out.

Rural America - I've been there. They're all fat and sick. Yeah they are getting tore up because they eat like crap, they're fat, they drink and do drugs. Sorry that's the truth.

People in rural American are all fat and sick? How did you come up with that conclusion? Oh right, you've been there. Apparently you've been to every part of rural America, whatever census data published is lying to us for no reason.

and here's the REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, don't skip over this: not taking these covid vaxes is NOT a threat to others! Kyrie and Isaac and Beale and Wiggins aren't risking anybody else's health!

What? How are they not a threat to others? Even vaccinated players are threats to transmit, just much lower threat.

Still waiting for someone to credibly dispute above.

I just did, but I suspect that I am wasting my time here.

[Pointgod]

Not even close to true. This vaccine is arguably “leaky” and only addresses the spike protein mechanism. Delta for example and Lambda, Mu etc mutated to get around as much dependence on the spike protein apparently, which is why they decimated vaccine efficacy, and dropped it from 95% of Alpha to now 40-60% area. That’s in just 8 months dude.

The only way to eradicate it would be to be constantly tweaking/improving this vaccine and get very lucky with your educated guesses on the next mutation. Considering much less dangerous flu’s vaccines average like 40% efficacy or less now, what makes you think they will figure this one out?

lol not close to true

Ok, so tell me how the Delta variant occurred - how did we change from Alpha to Delta? And why? And be technical if you can, I'm very familiar

I don’t know exactly what is responsible. Nobody does right? There are various theories. I do believe from the studies I’ve read that it’s plausible that both vaccines, and the unvaccinated, are creating viral escape, and mutations.

I also know from even brief study of all major plagues/pandemics going back to ancient history they typically become less virulent for the sake of more contagion to improve their replication chances. Yet we continue acting like putting everyone on lockdown and eradicating covid is the best strategy.

Even very pro vax scientists have questioned the methods of our government right now. Hell the FDA panel just recommended against boosters in a conference because the data didn’t support it, and the White House ignored that. I don’t need to know virology precise mechanisms to know a lot of money is on the line for politicians linked to Pfizer (whom have literally been fined billions for paying off scientists and studies).

Lol you’d know the answer to that if you actually did deep research instead of looking at sources that confirm your bias. Seriously can you provide that New York Times link to the data table? I want to see the numbers you quoted.

[jbk1234]

You didn't address my points. I decribed what the vaccines do and don't do, to be precies:
- They DO boost immune response
- They DO NOT stop transmission
- They DO NOT stop re-infection

One more time: pro athletes have tip top immune systems. Rural America - I've been there. They're all fat and sick. Yeah they are getting tore up because they eat like crap, they're fat, they drink and do drugs. Sorry that's the truth.

Old, fat, sick, immune compromised people absolutely should take the Covid vax. Kyrie Irving? He's not at much risk. and here's the REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, don't skip over this: not taking these covid vaxes is NOT a threat to others! Kyrie and Isaac and Beale and Wiggins aren't risking anybody else's health!

Still waiting for someone to credibly dispute above.

No vaccine kills the virus. That's not how vaccines work. Vaccines introduce dead virus strains which allows your immune system to develop antibodies in response. When they encounter a live virus strain you've already got the blueprint. No vaccine provides 100% immunity forever. Natural immunity doesn't give you 100% immunity forever. But hey, if you're good being 11 times more likely to die, 29 times more likely to be hospitalized, more likely to catch and more likely to transmit it, because it's not perfect, you do you. Just wear one of those *pure blood* shirts so I can cross the street.

Just for clarity, that is not how mRNA vaccines work. There's no actual viral load given to your body, just "instructions" for your cells to create spike proteins that replicate Covid's, and in turn create B cells (and eventually T "memory" cells... more so when it is reintroduced in short order with a second shot) for protection. They've been working on mRNA vaccines for decades and the quick introduction of it finally during Covid was due in large part to the fact that it was during a pandemic and the amount of test subjects (relative to prior viruses being studied) were readily available (plus the funding for it was predictably massive relative to priors).

While it's not a perfect solution by any means, it is proving to be extremely safe and relatively effective. The counter that these players are extremely low-risk from Covid is also correct, but it's still far higher than any side effects they would have to worry about concerning the vaccine (which is why the concern is so strange to me).

Large groups of people opposing vaccines dates back to all countries since the inception of vaccines, though. The fact that it is occurring with Covid as well should shock no one.

Traditionally, antivax groups have not been *large.* They've been pretty fringe historically. The league isn't mandating that players get vaccinated. What they're saying is that if you're decision not to get vaccinated causes you to miss games, that's coming out of your paycheck. That's a better deal than a professionals are getting right now.

[Black Jack]

You didn't address my points. I decribed what the vaccines do and don't do, to be precies:
- They DO boost immune response
- They DO NOT stop transmission
- They DO NOT stop re-infection

The rate of transmission and re-infection is much lower if you can vaccinated. You seem to conveniently leave that part out.

Rural America - I've been there. They're all fat and sick. Yeah they are getting tore up because they eat like crap, they're fat, they drink and do drugs. Sorry that's the truth.

People in rural American are all fat and sick? How did you come up with that conclusion? Oh right, you've been there. Apparently you've been to every part of rural America, whatever census data published is lying to us for no reason.

and here's the REALLY CRUCIAL POINT, don't skip over this: not taking these covid vaxes is NOT a threat to others! Kyrie and Isaac and Beale and Wiggins aren't risking anybody else's health!

What? How are they not a threat to others? Even vaccinated players are threats to transmit, just much lower threat.

Still waiting for someone to credibly dispute above.

I just did, but I suspect that I am wasting my time here.

Willing to debate transmission risk of vaxed vs unvaxed but overall since Israel / Singapore are so highly vaxed and still have outbreaks...real world evidence seems in my favor.

Yes rural Americans are fat, out of shape etc. Yes I've been around the US. It's actually been studied. I think San Francisco is the most in shape metro area. Have you even been to the south? LOL. cmon.

OK sure unvaxed and vaxed can pass the virus. That's my point. Nothing is risk free. Sorry but Kyrie is not some crazy risk.

SF's policy not letting Wiggins play but letting unvaxed visiting players play - is flat out nuts given that this is an airborne virus. Literal liberal hysteria.

[OkcSinceSGA]

lol not close to true

Ok, so tell me how the Delta variant occurred - how did we change from Alpha to Delta? And why? And be technical if you can, I'm very familiar

I don’t know exactly what is responsible. Nobody does right? There are various theories. I do believe from the studies I’ve read that it’s plausible that both vaccines, and the unvaccinated, are creating viral escape, and mutations.

I also know from even brief study of all major plagues/pandemics going back to ancient history they typically become less virulent for the sake of more contagion to improve their replication chances. Yet we continue acting like putting everyone on lockdown and eradicating covid is the best strategy.

Even very pro vax scientists have questioned the methods of our government right now. Hell the FDA panel just recommended against boosters in a conference because the data didn’t support it, and the White House ignored that. I don’t need to know virology precise mechanisms to know a lot of money is on the line for politicians linked to Pfizer (whom have literally been fined billions for paying off scientists and studies).

Evolution / fight for survival is a pretty good guess. (I was looking for generals, not specifics on that. If you do ever figure that one out though..)

But it seems like you're trying to tie this back to Big Pharma (and by that end, politicians) as a scheme to profit tremendously off this while there's a better way to handle it. If I'm wrong there let me know, could be more nuanced than that, but thats what it sounds like. If so, I really cant see the point of going further. It sounded like to me that you had some really indepth knowledge about virology, vaccines, biology etc..

I will say this though: what's the timeline on the virus becoming less virulent over time of their own accord? Because history has some *really* troubling timelines in those cases

I know you’re being a bit sarcastic but again, I don’t need to be a virologist to disagree with the dangers of Covid or the imposing of vaccine mandates. I love science, I love vaccines overall.

For my particular situation, I don’t believe in taking it and trying to mandate it doesn’t seem right. I’ve been very supportive in all of my family and friends for the most part wanting it. I didn’t discourage them once. It’s their choice made with their doctor.


Disclaimer: this is nothing I’m claiming as factual, just my own suspicions of the handling of the pandemic.


Maybe it’s nothing, but during the pandemic we just saw one of the biggest wealth transfers In history out of the middle/lower class and small business to the wealthy, and big corporations/pharma. Pfizer now stands to make something like 10x it’s original profit projection from this vaccine. First it was a couple to few billion, then 15, then 26, now 33 and rising fast. Multiple politicians (GOP and dems) have been tied to Pfizer.

So yes, I see the handling of this pandemic being a power play by the elites in the country, and not having an ounce to do with protecting us from Covid. I frankly don’t believe they give a **** about that.

As for timeline my guess is as good as the “experts” or yours based on the track record they’ve had predicting covid so far

[haosmoove]

Ughhj i dont see such an article, you mean their article today that said 'mandate on vaccinations largely working ' lol.

The only data i found was about IRELAND where 54% hospitalized were vaxed but the country is 90%+ vaxed so clearly it helps reduce hospitalizations- if the other 10% accounts for half of hospitalizations.

Cite your 55% in america. Maybe you misread bc 55% americans are vaccinated. Otherwise dont spread misinformation.

It’s not an article, it’s their data sheet they update. But they put vaccinated percentage to the right of hospitalized and death tallies, which led me to believe that was referring to those categories, could just be the way the chart is. Regardless we’ve seen plenty of breakthrough recently in other highly vaxxed countries (Israel and Australia being most popular) and even states here.

Vermont is more vaxxed than anyone lately and they still saw a big spike recently. My overall point being breakthrough cases are happening at a higher rate potentially than they know (because they aren’t counting them). So forcing one to vaccinate or not in the NBA isn’t necessarily gonna stop a bunch of guys from ending up in protocols.

I personally think at this point 20 players in the NBA being unvaxxed won’t have much impact. These are pro athletes usually under 30, with no commorbidities. The number of American’s in the under 39 group that have died from Covid contributed situations (not even necessarily FROM Covid, some WITH) covid is less than 20k. The average number of commorbidities in people dying is between 3-4.

Covid is not a threat to these players. It’s not statistically a threat to their young children either. The CDC death count by age is available online. It isn’t me being a “conspiracy theorist”.

Add Singapore to that list. High vaccination something like 90% and are seeing a spike in "cases".

You seem pretty clueless in the way statistics work. Not every single data point needs to be positively correlated for the hypothesis to hold. This is especially true when there are other factors that can impact the results (lifestyle, weather, medical system, etc) You guys keep picking on outlier data to prove your point. Guess what? For every Israel or Singapore, there are 20 other countries with low case / high vax or high case / low vax rate.

[art_tatum]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretending it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

Ughhj i dont see such an article, you mean their article today that said 'mandate on vaccinations largely working ' lol.

The only data i found was about IRELAND where 54% hospitalized were vaxed but the country is 90%+ vaxed so clearly it helps reduce hospitalizations- if the other 10% accounts for half of hospitalizations.

Cite your 55% in america. Maybe you misread bc 55% americans are vaccinated. Otherwise dont spread misinformation.

It’s not an article, it’s their data sheet they update. But they put vaccinated percentage to the right of hospitalized and death tallies, which led me to believe that was referring to those categories, could just be the way the chart is. Regardless we’ve seen plenty of breakthrough recently in other highly vaxxed countries (Israel and Australia being most popular) and even states here.

Vermont is more vaxxed than anyone lately and they still saw a big spike recently. My overall point being breakthrough cases are happening at a higher rate potentially than they know (because they aren’t counting them). So forcing one to vaccinate or not in the NBA isn’t necessarily gonna stop a bunch of guys from ending up in protocols.

I personally think at this point 20 players in the NBA being unvaxxed won’t have much impact. These are pro athletes usually under 30, with no commorbidities. The number of American’s in the under 39 group that have died from Covid contributed situations (not even necessarily FROM Covid, some WITH) covid is less than 20k. The average number of commorbidities in people dying is between 3-4.

Covid is not a threat to these players. It’s not statistically a threat to their young children either. The CDC death count by age is available online. It isn’t me being a “conspiracy theorist”.

Well the thing about spikes, its always going to happen, its the nature of things, but you have to look at how many and what % of the population. 1 to 50 spike is still better and more manageable than 100 to 5000.
West virginia has the lowest % of vaccinated and highest % of covid hospitalizations.

As for the nba almost hard lining vaccines, well its not really about the 20 players left. If they didnt hardline it, and have these conditions/refuse pay, nba vaccinations wouldnt be 95%. If the nba said they dont care if you are vaxxed since you all are physical specimens, maybe the % would be 55% like the rest of the population (but probably higher). That would be a problem for the nba and their bottomline. They cant just change course now bc theres so few left unvaxxed. Regardless of what you believe, the point is that the nba believe vaccinations help reduce risk/transmission, thus they are doing this, and thats just on the assumption they only care about $$$.

[haosmoove]

Willing to debate transmission risk of vaxed vs unvaxed but overall since Israel / Singapore are so highly vaxed and still have outbreaks...real world evidence seems in my favor.

Real world evidence is NOT in your favor. Cherry picking 2 outlier data points does not prove your point. I addressed this in my previous post.

[Da ThRONe]

I just feel like the MRNA technology is still experimental. It never was approved for use before covid. Suddenly it gets emergency approval and all the liberal do gooders are trying to push for 100% vaccination in the US. Seems crazy considering US borders aren't closed. So vaxed and unvaxed will be passing viral variants around, forever. The vax doesn't kill the virus.

It's the religious certainty that sets me off. If you want to get vaxed, fine. But don't force it on everyone when it doesn't even kill the virus.

Well I don't think anyone anywhere has said the vaccine kills the virus in all cases in all cases. It doesn't. The benefits are it reduces your chance of getting covid, which in turn reduces your chance of spreading covid, and it also significantly reduces your chance of being hospitalized or dying because of covid. So that's why so many people advocate for getting vaccinated. It's not a magic bullet but it makes a lot of sense if you stop getting hung up on minor points of the debate. Imo.

There needs to be some reality i this discussion though: pro athletes, who probably had the virus already like Beale....don't have the same risk profile. If you're 300 pounds get the vax. If you're in tip top shape you have minimal risk either way. The mass media message to get vaxed isn't realistic on this point.

This has been one of the most disturbing things about this "casedemic". The idea that every humanbeing all fit into one box and therefore should be all vaxxed regardless of circumstances and/or personal choice has been one the most anti-scientific displays I have ever seen. People have completely over looked the data that shows if you aren't elderly or have MULTIPLE commorbidities covid is less deadly than the flu. Just saying it in some people's minds make you so kind of wack job or somehow less caring about life.

[Black Jack]

Willing to debate transmission risk of vaxed vs unvaxed but overall since Israel / Singapore are so highly vaxed and still have outbreaks...real world evidence seems in my favor.

Real world evidence is NOT in your favor. Cherry picking 2 outlier data points does not prove your point. I addressed this in my previous post.

I just received a strike so just gonna leave this alone. It's like 9/11, American society doesn't tolerate dissent in the middle of a panic.

[Da ThRONe]

It’s not an article, it’s their data sheet they update. But they put vaccinated percentage to the right of hospitalized and death tallies, which led me to believe that was referring to those categories, could just be the way the chart is. Regardless we’ve seen plenty of breakthrough recently in other highly vaxxed countries (Israel and Australia being most popular) and even states here.

Vermont is more vaxxed than anyone lately and they still saw a big spike recently. My overall point being breakthrough cases are happening at a higher rate potentially than they know (because they aren’t counting them). So forcing one to vaccinate or not in the NBA isn’t necessarily gonna stop a bunch of guys from ending up in protocols.

I personally think at this point 20 players in the NBA being unvaxxed won’t have much impact. These are pro athletes usually under 30, with no commorbidities. The number of American’s in the under 39 group that have died from Covid contributed situations (not even necessarily FROM Covid, some WITH) covid is less than 20k. The average number of commorbidities in people dying is between 3-4.

Covid is not a threat to these players. It’s not statistically a threat to their young children either. The CDC death count by age is available online. It isn’t me being a “conspiracy theorist”.

Add Singapore to that list. High vaccination something like 90% and are seeing a spike in "cases".

You seem pretty clueless in the way statistics work. Not every single data point needs to be positively correlated for the hypothesis to hold. This is especially true when there are other factors that can impact the results (lifestyle, weather, medical system, etc) You guys keep picking on outlier data to prove your point. Guess what? For every Israel or Singapore, there are 20 other countries with low case / high vax or high case / low vax rate.

The point is inoculation doesn't stop transmission at nearly a high enough rate to justify mandates. Even if were to agree "public health" supercedes individual freedom.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Anyway, I’m out. Not gonna risk a ban like others have gotten for dissenting, even though I’m posting respectfully and haven’t said not to vaccinate etc.

[jbk1234]

I had the virus, it took me 3 days to fight it off. Turns out all the vitamin D, zinc etc. I take worked.

I hope you enjoy booster shots every 8 moths, Pfizer's daily pill etc. Pretty sure the Pfizer and Moderna CEOs will roll out an implant that drips their MRNA love into your bloodstream every second soon too. As for me... I'm fine with not being on the iPhone subscription model for immune system boosters. I'll go with 2 million years of evolution over this experimental MRNA crap.

Fun fact, only the survivors of plagues passed along their DNA to continue the evolutionary process. There were millions who didn't.

The black plague's death rate was comically higher than covid. This isn't the apocalyptic virus you're looking for - but give Fauci and his mad scientist buddies time, if they get to keep doing research INTENDED TO CREATE superviruses*, one will indeed emerge.

* see https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/

That's not what gain of function research is about but I'm really tired of correcting you. I would note that the reason you're inventing these future dystopian scenarios involving the vaccine, is that because on some level you know that the risks of not taking the vaccine clearly outweigh the risks of taking it. So you're inventing these future apocalyptic fantasies to rationalize a decision you previously committed in order to make that decision seem more rational to yourself.

[FNQ]

I know you’re being a bit sarcastic but again, I don’t need to be a virologist to disagree with the dangers of Covid or the imposing of vaccine mandates. I love science, I love vaccines overall.

Honestly wasn't. We dont have the exact nature of how or why the viruses evolve on the paths they do. I was saying if you do figure it out.. let the whole world know. We know the general "fight for survival" part, but if we could start mapping out the why, we'd be unlocking something incredibly impactful.

For my particular situation, I don’t believe in taking it and trying to mandate it doesn’t seem right. I’ve been very supportive in all of my family and friends for the most part wanting it. I didn’t discourage them once. It’s their choice made with their doctor.


Disclaimer: this is nothing I’m claiming as factual, just my own suspicions of the handling of the pandemic.


Maybe it’s nothing, but during the pandemic we just saw one of the biggest wealth transfers In history out of the middle/lower class and small business to the wealthy, and big corporations/pharma. Pfizer now stands to make something like 10x it’s original profit projection from this vaccine. First it was a couple to few billion, then 15, then 26, now 33 and rising fast. Multiple politicians (GOP and dems) have been tied to Pfizer.

So yes, I see the handling of this pandemic being a power play by the elites in the country, and not having an ounce to do with protecting us from Covid. I frankly don’t believe they give a **** about that.

Ok but can both be true? Can the vaccine be potent, can lockdowns be useful, and can masks be effective while some companies really feasted? Because a lot of the companies, and individuals, who did really well, did so because their industries were either unaffected or accelerated (Bezos) by the reaction to the pandemic. But the most troubling part for me is that the lockdowns wouldnt have been necessary, most likely, if we didnt have people denying it at first, refusing to wear masks, refusing to socially distance, etc etc. It may be a pipe dream to get people to act a certain way as a group, so maybe it was doomed to fail regardless. But the lockdowns occurred because we couldn't adhere to that effectively... combine that with many people losing their jobs (while the companies kept chugging away) and that would likely explain the majority of a wealth transfer.

Without going too far down that road, wealth disparity was a huge problem before COVID and will be worse after. I hope people remember that when its voting season..

[Ballerhogger]

Only 5% to go.. We know the popular ones who arent vaxxed. wonder who else isnt?

[Hsker4Life]

These horror stories are so common now they hardly get any press. This one is from Alabama, that bastion of "FREEDOMS."

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

That horror story is obviously not true.

The guy's literal obituary said that and it was linked in the article.

And? I can send off one with just about anything written in it.

I don’t want to sound callous, but it just did not go down like that.

The hospital he was transferred said he was transferred for more specialized treatment.

If people with medical emergencies like dire heart issues were legit dying because hospitals were turning them away due to COVID, this would just be in one man’s obituary.

[infinite11285]

Willing to debate transmission risk of vaxed vs unvaxed but overall since Israel / Singapore are so highly vaxed and still have outbreaks...real world evidence seems in my favor.

Real world evidence is NOT in your favor. Cherry picking 2 outlier data points does not prove your point. I addressed this in my previous post.

I just received a strike so just gonna leave this alone. It's like 9/11, American society doesn't tolerate dissent in the middle of a panic.

You've overrun this thread with more political catchphrases and "arguing points" than a Tucker Carlson segment, loaded with offensive generalizations, misleading information, and bickering. It's obvious you're passionate, which is fine, but in a thread about the overall vaccination rate, you chose to take a sledgehammer to it with unrelated opinions. All for what? Turn down the volume a notch. Is that too much to ask?

Anyway, I’m out. Not gonna risk a ban like others have gotten for dissenting, even though I’m posting respectfully and haven’t said not to vaccinate etc.

As a reminder to all, please review and abide by the Policy on COVID Discussions on the GB. There's a distinct difference between dissenting and violating the Rules of the Forum. Your posts in this thread have been fine.