NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[Da ThRONe]

New data, so we can retire the talking point that vaccinated folks spread at the same rate, they don’t.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2017/02/secondhand-smoke-isnt-as-bad-as-we-thought.amp

New data so now we can stop acting like 2nd hand smoke is dangerous.

[xdrta+]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID

"Due to COVID 19, CRMC emergency staff contacted 43 hospitals in 3 states in search of a Cardiac ICU bed and finally located one in Meridian, MS.," the last paragraph of DeMonia's obituary reads...

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

That horror story is obviously not true.

Besides NPR the story was reported in the Washington Post, NBC News, USA Today, and dozens of other news outlets. But I'm sure in your view these are all full of FAKE NEWS, that makes it obviously not true.

[FNQ]

New data, so we can retire the talking point that vaccinated folks spread at the same rate, they don’t.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2017/02/secondhand-smoke-isnt-as-bad-as-we-thought.amp

New data so now we can stop acting like 2nd hand smoke is dangerous.

That's 4 years old and the smear campaign on secondhand smoke has been known for a lot longer than that...

FWIW: Its still not good and can be dangerous, for context and accuracy. But it was overstated when imposing certain laws. I'm just amazed sometimes at the logical patterns of some

[MoneyTalks41890]

Never doubt the ability of people to attempt to justify their own narratives in the face of evidence to the contrary

[Da ThRONe]

New data, so we can retire the talking point that vaccinated folks spread at the same rate, they don’t.

Read on Twitter

?s=21

https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2017/02/secondhand-smoke-isnt-as-bad-as-we-thought.amp

New data so now we can stop acting like 2nd hand smoke is dangerous.

That's 4 years old and the smear campaign on secondhand smoke has been known for a lot longer than that...

The point is data can be manipulate. Like the data that said 99% of people who have been hospitalized are unvaccinated. But they failed to mention that that was since the beginning of the year when only a tiny percentage of the population was eligible for the shot.

[RyderMike]

NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated.

Link?

I just scrolled through the New York Times Twitter feed. I didn’t see this anywhere.

Even if that 55 was true, which given multiple people can't prove it, the numbers speak for themselves with Proper math.

Where I live in Canada, about 33% of cases and 10-15% of hospitalizations are in fully vaxxed people. 80% of the population is vaxxed. I keep hearing people say look the vaccine isn't effective because "half of infections" (I guess they like to round way up) are in vaxxed people. But here's the math part, look at the population sizes..... 20% of the population is accounting for 67% of cases and 85-90% of hospitalizations.

So basically if the unvaxxed population is getting seriously infected requiring hospitalization at 8-9 times the rate of vaxxed and the population size is 4 times smaller that's 32 times (8times4) more likely to be seriously sick due to being unvaxxed. Case wise it'd be 2x4=8 times more likely to be infected. The vaccines aren't perfect eliminator, but clearly are very effective at reducing serious health problems.

Edit: I just saw jbk post on the previous page with the stats about delta with the unvaxxed from a study. My basic raw math based on the approximate numbers I saw over the past few days, look really close to those. I just did a basic math on a single population area and turns out it's similar to the actual numbers from an actual study, which just further demonstrates the efficacy

[Optms]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretending it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

The vaccine is not being pushed to eradicate. It is being pushed so because it slows the spread and allows hospitals to operate under maximum capacity. It could have eradicated if we saw a very high vaccination rate with some urgency, but as evidenced in other threads, evidence does not mean much to some

That stuff you think will beat this? Secondary to having available hospital capacity for those affected by COVID, and frankly, those with other respiratory illnesses that also require beds in respiratory ICU

We live in a melting pot of 350+ million people of all sorts of backround and cultures and you are surprised that not everyone agrees with you or the CDC, or the government about putting something into their bodies?

[FNQ]

Gonna be hilarious this season when the NBA experiences a ton of breakthrough cases... and we realize a “mandate” is worthless (I didn’t say vaccine is worthless). NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated. Let them start counting breakthrough cases again (not just hospitalized or dead) so we can get a more complete picture of where it’s spreading.

I strongly believe this is already endemic (most scientists at minimum seem to agree it will become endemic soon). This thing is here to stay forever now. Learning to cope with it is far more viable than pretending it can be eradicated. Better therapeutics, better health. That’s how we will “beat” this IMO.

The vaccine is not being pushed to eradicate. It is being pushed so because it slows the spread and allows hospitals to operate under maximum capacity. It could have eradicated if we saw a very high vaccination rate with some urgency, but as evidenced in other threads, evidence does not mean much to some

That stuff you think will beat this? Secondary to having available hospital capacity for those affected by COVID, and frankly, those with other respiratory illnesses that also require beds in respiratory ICU

We live in a melting pot of 350+ million people of all sorts of backround and cultures and you are surprised that not everyone agrees with you or the CDC, or the government about putting something into their bodies?

Again, we dont need everyone to vaccinate. And historically in the past, Americans were smart enough as a group to all but eradicate some terrible diseases via the same methods. This one was politicized and thus many people will use any flimsy excuse to not take it, so they align with their political side.

However there are some people who have honest hesitations and those people are fantastic to talk to

[FNQ]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate.com/technology/2017/02/secondhand-smoke-isnt-as-bad-as-we-thought.amp

New data so now we can stop acting like 2nd hand smoke is dangerous.

That's 4 years old and the smear campaign on secondhand smoke has been known for a lot longer than that...

The point is data can be manipulate. Like the data that said 99% of people who have been hospitalized are unvaccinated. But they failed to mention that that was since the beginning of the year when only a tiny percentage of the population was eligible for the shot.

Ok.
So what data do you think is being manipulated here? Do you think the vaccination is unsafe? Do you think unvaccinated people spread the virus less or equal to vaccinated people? And what reasoning or data do you have?

[Black Jack]

Fun fact, only the survivors of plagues passed along their DNA to continue the evolutionary process. There were millions who didn't.

The black plague's death rate was comically higher than covid. This isn't the apocalyptic virus you're looking for - but give Fauci and his mad scientist buddies time, if they get to keep doing research INTENDED TO CREATE superviruses*, one will indeed emerge.

* see https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/

That's not what gain of function research is about but I'm really tired of correcting you. I would note that the reason you're inventing these future dystopian scenarios involving the vaccine, is that because on some level you know that the risks of not taking the vaccine clearly outweigh the risks of taking it. So you're inventing these future apocalyptic fantasies to rationalize a decision you previously committed in order to make that decision seem more rational to yourself.

Just one more comment, that's incorrect. I follow these things and the risk of a virus created in a lab leaking out has been openly discussed for decades. The GoF debate is ongoing and I side with caution not the Faucis of the world. And yes I read the writeup on what Fauci's buddy Dazsak was funded and it explicitly was creating a more virulent version of a virus that could spillover from bats to humans. That's crazy and should be stopped.

Hey you want to hear some more risks to civilization like a virus leaking from a lab? Try runaway global warming, due to begin around 2030 at current rates of fossil fuel burning, and nuclear war, risk of which is much higher than the man on the street realizes.

Obama banned GoF research so Fauci and Dazsak made an end run and funded it in Wuhan. That's clear. Further, the CCP blocked WHO doing a serious investigation into the virus's origins AND Wuhan institute staff started getting sick with flu like symtoms in 2019 so barring a real investigation, occam's razor indicates Covid19 was a lab leak.

OK I'm done.

[jbk1234]

Well I don't think anyone anywhere has said the vaccine kills the virus in all cases in all cases. It doesn't. The benefits are it reduces your chance of getting covid, which in turn reduces your chance of spreading covid, and it also significantly reduces your chance of being hospitalized or dying because of covid. So that's why so many people advocate for getting vaccinated. It's not a magic bullet but it makes a lot of sense if you stop getting hung up on minor points of the debate. Imo.

There needs to be some reality i this discussion though: pro athletes, who probably had the virus already like Beale....don't have the same risk profile. If you're 300 pounds get the vax. If you're in tip top shape you have minimal risk either way. The mass media message to get vaxed isn't realistic on this point.

I'm deleting this. I went to respond and it somehow showed up as my post.

[Hsker4Life]

A Man Died After Being Turned Away From 43 ICUs At Capacity Due To COVID

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/09/13/1036593269/coronavirus-alabama-43-icus-at-capacity-ray-demonia

That horror story is obviously not true.

Besides NPR the story was reported in the Washington Post, NBC News, USA Today, and dozens of other news outlets. But I'm sure in your view these are all full of FAKE NEWS, that makes it obviously not true.

Each source you listed cites only the obituary. Be smarter. The hospital he was moved from said he needed specialized care.

Patients get transferred to more specialized hospitals all the time.

[BBallFreak]

Add Singapore to that list. High vaccination something like 90% and are seeing a spike in "cases".

You seem pretty clueless in the way statistics work. Not every single data point needs to be positively correlated for the hypothesis to hold. This is especially true when there are other factors that can impact the results (lifestyle, weather, medical system, etc) You guys keep picking on outlier data to prove your point. Guess what? For every Israel or Singapore, there are 20 other countries with low case / high vax or high case / low vax rate.

The point is inoculation doesn't stop transmission at nearly a high enough rate to justify mandates. Even if were to agree "public health" supercedes individual freedom.

We disagree there. If the rate of transmission were reduced by just one percent due to the vaccine, that would make a drastic difference. I believe 43 million Americans have had COVID (myself included). If 1% of us hadn't gotten it, that would be 430,000 Americans. If we assume the same death rate of 1.6%, then 68,800 of those 430,000 human beings would still be alive, and that's just in the United States. That's not including severe cases or long-termers, either. Think about the numbers, consider that each one is a human being, and tell me again why the transmission rate being less than perfect matters again.

What you neglect to point out here is the lessening of the severity of symptoms and the lightening of the burden on the hospital system.

I will never understand why anyone would oppose the best way to fight a potentially deadly disease.

[FNQ]

That horror story is obviously not true.

Besides NPR the story was reported in the Washington Post, NBC News, USA Today, and dozens of other news outlets. But I'm sure in your view these are all full of FAKE NEWS, that makes it obviously not true.

Each source you listed cites only the obituary. Be smarter. The hospital he was moved from said he needed specialized care.

Patients get transferred to more specialized hospitals all the time.

Specialized care = the respiratory ICU

This isn't common in the bay area anymore, but was, and still is in several states. And I just know that passively. New Mexico and Arizona are having issues with it too. I dont really follow the eastern side of the country, so cant speak to that.

Just wish people would stop talking about things they don't know about, and then going into full blown denial when called out

[Optms]

The vaccine is not being pushed to eradicate. It is being pushed so because it slows the spread and allows hospitals to operate under maximum capacity. It could have eradicated if we saw a very high vaccination rate with some urgency, but as evidenced in other threads, evidence does not mean much to some

That stuff you think will beat this? Secondary to having available hospital capacity for those affected by COVID, and frankly, those with other respiratory illnesses that also require beds in respiratory ICU

We live in a melting pot of 350+ million people of all sorts of backround and cultures and you are surprised that not everyone agrees with you or the CDC, or the government about putting something into their bodies?

Again, we dont need everyone to vaccinate. And historically in the past, Americans were smart enough as a group to all but eradicate some terrible diseases via the same methods. This one was politicized and thus many people will use any flimsy excuse to not take it, so they align with their political side.

However there are some people who have honest hesitations and those people are fantastic to talk to

This isn't about politics though. One of the highest demographic of groups who are choosing not to take the vaccine come from Black communities and Hispanic communities. 2 sides that have historically leaned to the side that is pushing these vaccines.

It isn't just stars like Kyrie or Beal in the NBA that are expressing pro-choice beliefs. Other Black influencers have also come out against taking it for their personal selves.

We're also living in 2021, America doesn't have the leadership that it once did and it is more diverse then ever. People have the information about COVID. Its literately everywhere and not everyone is going to choose the same path that you or me will take. Its like Religion and Science. Not everyone is religious and not everyone is an ashiest. The science clearly suggests different but that doesn't stop people from having their own beliefs.

[Da ThRONe]

You seem pretty clueless in the way statistics work. Not every single data point needs to be positively correlated for the hypothesis to hold. This is especially true when there are other factors that can impact the results (lifestyle, weather, medical system, etc) You guys keep picking on outlier data to prove your point. Guess what? For every Israel or Singapore, there are 20 other countries with low case / high vax or high case / low vax rate.

The point is inoculation doesn't stop transmission at nearly a high enough rate to justify mandates. Even if were to agree "public health" supercedes individual freedom.

We disagree there. If the rate of transmission were reduced by just one percent due to the vaccine, that would make a drastic difference. I believe 43 million Americans have had COVID (myself included). If 1% of us hadn't gotten it, that would be 430,000 Americans. If we assume the same death rate of 1.6%, then 68,800 of those 430,000 human beings would still be alive, and that's just in the United States. That's not including severe cases or long-termers, either. Think about the numbers, consider that each one is a human being, and tell me again why the transmission rate being less than perfect matters again.

What you neglect to point out here is the lessening of the severity of symptoms and the lightening of the burden on the hospital system.

I will never understand why anyone would oppose the best way to fight a potentially deadly disease.

Because this assumes zero risk from the vaccine themselves which isn't true. And that's just the known side effects as of today. There's literally no telling what type of long term effects that could be later associated with these jabs.

Again anybody who decides for themselves the risk of the vaccines are worth any side effects should take it without any judgment or penalties. Like wise any of us who don't want to assume any long term risk with the jab should be entitled to the same lack of judgment and penalties. Especially since these jabs are so leaky that such a high percentage of people are still being infected and transmitting the virus anyways.

[DonaldSanders]

Anyway, I’m out. Not gonna risk a ban like others have gotten for dissenting, even though I’m posting respectfully and haven’t said not to vaccinate etc.

Ahh the victim card, your favorite as an anti-science person.

[Hsker4Life]

Besides NPR the story was reported in the Washington Post, NBC News, USA Today, and dozens of other news outlets. But I'm sure in your view these are all full of FAKE NEWS, that makes it obviously not true.

Each source you listed cites only the obituary. Be smarter. The hospital he was moved from said he needed specialized care.

Patients get transferred to more specialized hospitals all the time.

Specialized care = the respiratory ICU

This isn't common in the bay area anymore, but was, and still is in several states. And I just know that passively. New Mexico and Arizona are having issues with it too. I dont really follow the eastern side of the country, so cant speak to that.

Just wish people would stop talking about things they don't know about, and then going into full blown denial when called out

A spokesperson for Cullman Regional Medical Center, who declined to give specifics of Ray DeMonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to NPR that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there.

[FNQ]

We live in a melting pot of 350+ million people of all sorts of backround and cultures and you are surprised that not everyone agrees with you or the CDC, or the government about putting something into their bodies?

Again, we dont need everyone to vaccinate. And historically in the past, Americans were smart enough as a group to all but eradicate some terrible diseases via the same methods. This one was politicized and thus many people will use any flimsy excuse to not take it, so they align with their political side.

However there are some people who have honest hesitations and those people are fantastic to talk to

This isn't about politics though. One of the highest demographic of groups who are choosing not to take the vaccine come from Black communities and Hispanic communities. 2 sides that have historically leaned to the side that is pushing these vaccines.

It isn't just stars like Kyrie or Beal in the NBA that are expressing pro-choice beliefs. Other Black influencers have also come out against taking it for their personal selves.

We're also living in 2021, America doesn't have the leadership that it once did and it is more diverse then ever. People have the information about COVID. Its literately everywhere. Its like Religion and Science. Not everyone is religious and not everyone is an ashiest. The science clearly suggests different but that doesn't stop people from having their own beliefs.

I know all this, I'm struggling with why you're telling me.. regardless of what you're saying (again, I agree), those people are ignoring the scientific evidence, are they not? Those people are pushing very easily debunked things, are they not?

Beliefs are what you have when you dont know the answer. The simple fact is, we had enough to eradicate COVID, and we failed because people chose their easily debunked answers over the truth. We can dissect why, but the simple fact is that if people will dismiss facts for crazy reasons, that's a problem. And you can say its societal, or racial, or educational, or whatever.. but the instant you just pick and choose which facts you want to believe based on your pre-determined preferred answer, then you are being willfully ignorant. And thats why the vaccine didnt work as well as it could have, thats why we failed at containment, and thats why this will likely go on for a couple years

Finding out why they did it... doesnt really matter at this stage. It cant be corrected, its on them to have the personal growth to understand that this situation now is bigger than their personal feelings. That said, they are free to remain unvaxxed. They are not free from the social consequences of that

[SFour]

95% is very impressive....I personally thought it wasn't going to be more than 50-60%