NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[FNQ]

And I just told you what that was because its been a very common occurrence the past 18 months

The spokesman can obviously not give personal medical details about the patient, even post mortem, and saying that it was due to respiratory ICU capacity would indicate what kind of disease he had, and thus violate his rights, which would be legally actionable by his family.

[jbk1234]

Here's what's actually going on Israel since it's become an antivax talking point:
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/08/20/1029628471/highly-vaccinated-israel-is-seeing-a-dramatic-surge-in-new-covid-cases-heres-why

[Pointgod]

Link?

I just scrolled through the New York Times Twitter feed. I didn’t see this anywhere.

Even if that 55 was true, which given multiple people can't prove it, the numbers speak for themselves with Proper math.

Where I live in Canada, about 33% of cases and 10-15% of hospitalizations are in fully vaxxed people. 80% of the population is vaxxed. I keep hearing people say look the vaccine isn't effective because "half of infections" (I guess they like to round way up) are in vaxxed people. But here's the math part, look at the population sizes..... 20% of the population is accounting for 67% of cases and 85-90% of hospitalizations.

So basically if the unvaxxed population is getting seriously infected requiring hospitalization at 8-9 times the rate of vaxxed and the population size is 4 times smaller that's 32 times (8times4) more likely to be seriously sick due to being unvaxxed. Case wise it'd be 2x4=8 times more likely to be infected. The vaccines aren't perfect eliminator, but clearly are very effective at reducing serious health problems.

Edit: I just saw jbk post on the previous page with the stats about delta with the unvaxxed from a study. My basic raw math based on the approximate numbers I saw over the past few days, look really close to those. I just did a basic math on a single population area and turns out it's similar to the actual numbers from an actual study, which just further demonstrates the efficacy

Oh yeah there’s a big problem and lack of comprehension about percentages and proportions. It’s actually a huge indictment on the educational system. At some point we’ll see breakthrough cases in populations that are 99% vaxxed and antivaxxers will point to those as to why vaccines don’t work but completely ignore the low numbers of hospitalizations, ICUs and deaths.

[xdrta+]

That horror story is obviously not true.

Besides NPR the story was reported in the Washington Post, NBC News, USA Today, and dozens of other news outlets. But I'm sure in your view these are all full of FAKE NEWS, that makes it obviously not true.

Each source you listed cites only the obituary. Be smarter. The hospital he was moved from said he needed specialized care.

Patients get transferred to more specialized hospitals all the time.

Well, the patient died Sep 1. At the time, Danne Howard, the Alabama Hospital Association deputy director, said the state is in a dire place. The COVID-19 surge began in mid-august and has now reached its highest point ever during the pandemic...

Although hospitals do have the capability to expand capacity, Howard said there’s a lack of staff to handle that change adequately.

“That’s why we’re so aggressively trying to find additional resources, so those decisions don’t have to be made, so those types of life-or-death situations are not something that have to be faced,” Howard explained.

On Tuesday [a week later], Alabama saw 83 more ICU patients than ICU beds open statewide. On Wednesday, there were 94 more ICU patients than beds available.

“We’re not throwing in the towel, but it is a dire and serious situation,” she said.
https://www.wreg.com/news/alabama-man-dies-after-43-hospitals-with-full-icus-turned-him-away-family-urges-covid-19-vaccines/

From 2 weeks ago:

Alabama hospitals have been maxed out in recent weeks, with half of ICU beds occupied by patients with the coronavirus, according to NPR, which cited Johns Hopkins University.

Georgia hospitals are 96% occupied, with over half of ICU beds occupied by patients with the coronavirus, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

Mississippi hospitals are 93% occupied, with more than half of ICU beds occupied by patients with the coronavirus, according to data from Johns Hopkins University.

So keep downplaying it all you want if it helps you sleep at night. Just hope that someone you know doesn't have a stroke or a heart attack and there's just no room for them in the ICU. Because (mostly) unvaccinated Covid patients are taking all the ICU beds.

[NyKnicks1714]

Anyway, I’m out. Not gonna risk a ban like others have gotten for dissenting, even though I’m posting respectfully and haven’t said not to vaccinate etc.

You posted a fake statistic, then when asked for a link you refused to provide one.

[Dominator83]

Yes but the drugs on hand do NOT stop transmission. So that's the major lie being told by vax fundamentalists here. If the drugs stopped transmission I would condemn Kyrie etc. But the pro vaccine caucus keeps lying about this point!

No, they don't. Vaccines, if deployed to a vast majority of the people, would eradicate COVID the same way we eradicated other diseases using the same modality. The vaccines now are less effective because of... well.. your mentality, and resistance to getting them. Prior vaccines would have failed the exact same way.

Is what it is

Yeah, that's just a straightup lie. Fact is, even if we had near total vaccination there would STILL be covid and still be hospitalizations. I looked at the data, you did not. These vaccines are not sterilizing, that's science.

Proof? Look at Israel's data. They have near total vaccination yet a massive surge.

Here's another fact, Israeli studies showed that having recovered from covid like Beale has, gives 6 to 12x more protection than the "vaccines that are really immune boosters". The Karen community keeps ignoring this fact that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

What exactly is the Karen community?

[xdrta+]

Each source you listed cites only the obituary. Be smarter. The hospital he was moved from said he needed specialized care.

Patients get transferred to more specialized hospitals all the time.

Specialized care = the respiratory ICU

This isn't common in the bay area anymore, but was, and still is in several states. And I just know that passively. New Mexico and Arizona are having issues with it too. I dont really follow the eastern side of the country, so cant speak to that.

Just wish people would stop talking about things they don't know about, and then going into full blown denial when called out

A spokesperson for Cullman Regional Medical Center, who declined to give specifics of Ray DeMonia's case, citing privacy concerns, confirmed to NPR that he was transferred from the hospital but said the reason was that he required "a higher level of specialized care not available" there.

Of course it was not available, all the ICU beds were filled.

[Hsker4Life]

And I just told you what that was because its been a very common occurrence the past 18 months

The spokesman can obviously not give personal medical details about the patient, even post mortem, and saying that it was due to respiratory ICU capacity would indicate what kind of disease he had, and thus violate his rights, which would be legally actionable by his family.

What you’re doing is talking out of your rear. You have no idea what the specialized care was that he required. But you are an even more clueless than originally thought if you truly think he as turned away by 43 hospitals in/near Alabama due to COVID numbers. Alabama’s hospital numbers aren’t there, and if they were, you’d be hearing about more than one death from several weeks ago.

[michaelm]

Ok, and here are some other studies that have shown significant decline due to school mask mandates.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e3.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7012e3.htm

(There are plenty others but these 2 were catalogued so close together)

Note that these studies had the same variables as the one you presented: spacing where available, higher ventilation, etc etc

And since we do know that masking does help prevent the spread of COVID in general, the burden of proof would be to show that masks are actually ineffective. While there have been a couple outlier cases where they determined there was no effective change, EVERY ONE of those studies relayed in their notes that the "control" group often times had masks and still had the same amounts of ventilation and spacing.

“ Among 17 rural Wisconsin schools, reported student mask-wearing was high, and the COVID-19 incidence among students and staff members was lower than in the county overall (3,453 versus 5,466 per 100,000). Among 191 cases identified in students and staff members, only seven (3.7%) cases, all among students, were linked to in-school spread.”

That’s quite weak.

Reported mask wearing is high
Rates of COVID 19 amonst the staff and students was low
Your analysis: students shouldn't need to wear masks.

... really?

I'm really starting to suspect that you don't understand how studies work. You certainly don't understand how questions work:

Again, source? I'm sure its legitimate, not like some random substack or something.

Also, your image from before? Its not listed there. Whered you get it?

But look, there's obviously no way you were gonna admit you were wrong, just moving the goalposts from the flu being stronger than COVID to now kids shouldnt have to wear masks... you do whatever you need to. I'll just pop up when you start making inaccurate claims. It just makes no sense to me why someone would continuously make incorrect assertions when your research consists of substack posts and google searching. I'd wager that your search was something along the lines of "which study proves masks in schools dont work" because it sure would be a lot tougher to find that study you found if you put in "are masks in schools effective?"

No one has ever said masks, particularly ordinary surgical masks, were a panacea for Covid, but there is considerable evidence, most of which is for a stronger effect on spread than protection of the mask wearer from infection. 200 is nowhere near enough to show anything even if it was a controlled trial which I suspect it wasn’t.

[Yallbecrazy]

The Karen community has gone overboard. ITS A FACT that these immune boosters that are mislabeled as vaccines do not stop transmission.

Strike: Derailing (Political rhetoric)

Your whole post is wrong and full of misinformation, but I will just point out this part is extremely wrong. Studies show you are around 85% less likely to contract covid if you are vaxxed and 50-60% less likely to spread it if you do get a breakthrough case. Add that together and you are 93%+ less likely to contribute to the spread of the disease by being vaccinated.

[infinite11285]

No, they don't. Vaccines, if deployed to a vast majority of the people, would eradicate COVID the same way we eradicated other diseases using the same modality. The vaccines now are less effective because of... well.. your mentality, and resistance to getting them. Prior vaccines would have failed the exact same way.

Is what it is

Yeah, that's just a straightup lie. Fact is, even if we had near total vaccination there would STILL be covid and still be hospitalizations. I looked at the data, you did not. These vaccines are not sterilizing, that's science.

Proof? Look at Israel's data. They have near total vaccination yet a massive surge.

Here's another fact, Israeli studies showed that having recovered from covid like Beale has, gives 6 to 12x more protection than the "vaccines that are really immune boosters". The Karen community keeps ignoring this fact that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

What exactly is the Karen community?

Let it go.

Google the term if you require a point of reference and please stay on topic.

[FNQ]

And I just told you what that was because its been a very common occurrence the past 18 months

The spokesman can obviously not give personal medical details about the patient, even post mortem, and saying that it was due to respiratory ICU capacity would indicate what kind of disease he had, and thus violate his rights, which would be legally actionable by his family.

What you’re doing is talking out of your rear. You have no idea what the specialized care was that he required. But you are an even more clueless than originally thought if you truly think he as turned away by 43 hospitals in/near Alabama due to COVID numbers. Alabama’s hospital numbers aren’t there, and if they were, you’d be hearing about more than one death from several weeks ago.

2 posts after the article that stated Alabama was in dire straits with ICU beds

Save some Ls for the rest of the forum, jeez. This place is gonna be ReaGM before you’re done today

[Optms]

Again, we dont need everyone to vaccinate. And historically in the past, Americans were smart enough as a group to all but eradicate some terrible diseases via the same methods. This one was politicized and thus many people will use any flimsy excuse to not take it, so they align with their political side.

However there are some people who have honest hesitations and those people are fantastic to talk to

This isn't about politics though. One of the highest demographic of groups who are choosing not to take the vaccine come from Black communities and Hispanic communities. 2 sides that have historically leaned to the side that is pushing these vaccines.

It isn't just stars like Kyrie or Beal in the NBA that are expressing pro-choice beliefs. Other Black influencers have also come out against taking it for their personal selves.

We're also living in 2021, America doesn't have the leadership that it once did and it is more diverse then ever. People have the information about COVID. Its literately everywhere. Its like Religion and Science. Not everyone is religious and not everyone is an ashiest. The science clearly suggests different but that doesn't stop people from having their own beliefs.

I know all this, I'm struggling with why you're telling me.. regardless of what you're saying (again, I agree), those people are ignoring the scientific evidence, are they not? Those people are pushing very easily debunked things, are they not?

Beliefs are what you have when you dont know the answer. The simple fact is, we had enough to eradicate COVID, and we failed because people chose their easily debunked answers over the truth. We can dissect why, but the simple fact is that if people will dismiss facts for crazy reasons, that's a problem. And you can say its societal, or racial, or educational, or whatever.. but the instant you just pick and choose which facts you want to believe based on your pre-determined preferred answer, then you are being willfully ignorant. And thats why the vaccine didnt work as well as it could have, thats why we failed at containment, and thats why this will likely go on for a couple years

Finding out why they did it... doesnt really matter at this stage. It cant be corrected, its on them to have the personal growth to understand that this situation now is bigger than their personal feelings. That said, they are free to remain unvaxxed. They are not free from the social consequences of that

This is where I disagree. Unless you can provide me with concrete proof that COVID could have been eradicated, I call baloney.

COVID is here to stay along the lines of other viruses such as the flu. It is too easily transmittable and contagious to ever eradicate once and for all. It isn't even a National issue, it is a global one. Even if everyone gets vaccinated within the US, you still have other nations who don't take vaccination seriously. Getting everyone on the same page is virtually impossible. Greenhouse gases have been a thing for decades but good luck getting all Americans to agree on it, let alone surging nations like China or India.

But for arguments sake though, lets ignore other countries. Lets say you have everyone who is a US citizen vaccinated. Great? But what do you do about the illegal or undocumented workers pouring into the US that are being given a pass by this president from being vaccinated. (Which still confuses me as the virus does not see skin color). Along with people who can hide behind it with Religious exemptions and refugees from other nations. What's the point of pushing it if not everyone falls under the same mandate?

Like I said, I have both vaccines and at some point in the future I expect this government to push another vaccine out because the previous 2 aren't enough. This thing isn't going away anytime soon. Will I get vaccinated a third time? Sure why not. But I'm not going to sit there and pressure friends or family to do so just to validate my own positions on it. That's up to them.

[AussieCeltic]

Anyway, I’m out. Not gonna risk a ban like others have gotten for dissenting, even though I’m posting respectfully and haven’t said not to vaccinate etc.

You posted a fake statistic, then when asked for a link, you refused to provide one.

They never provide links. It always the same excuse. “I’ve done my research, you can do yours”.

[Pointgod]

Anyway, I’m out. Not gonna risk a ban like others have gotten for dissenting, even though I’m posting respectfully and haven’t said not to vaccinate etc.

You posted a fake statistic, then when asked for a link, you refused to provide one.

It’s amazing that for guys that always tout that they do their own research they easily crumble when that research is scrutinized or asked for sources.

[FNQ]

This isn't about politics though. One of the highest demographic of groups who are choosing not to take the vaccine come from Black communities and Hispanic communities. 2 sides that have historically leaned to the side that is pushing these vaccines.

It isn't just stars like Kyrie or Beal in the NBA that are expressing pro-choice beliefs. Other Black influencers have also come out against taking it for their personal selves.

We're also living in 2021, America doesn't have the leadership that it once did and it is more diverse then ever. People have the information about COVID. Its literately everywhere. Its like Religion and Science. Not everyone is religious and not everyone is an ashiest. The science clearly suggests different but that doesn't stop people from having their own beliefs.

I know all this, I'm struggling with why you're telling me.. regardless of what you're saying (again, I agree), those people are ignoring the scientific evidence, are they not? Those people are pushing very easily debunked things, are they not?

Beliefs are what you have when you dont know the answer. The simple fact is, we had enough to eradicate COVID, and we failed because people chose their easily debunked answers over the truth. We can dissect why, but the simple fact is that if people will dismiss facts for crazy reasons, that's a problem. And you can say its societal, or racial, or educational, or whatever.. but the instant you just pick and choose which facts you want to believe based on your pre-determined preferred answer, then you are being willfully ignorant. And thats why the vaccine didnt work as well as it could have, thats why we failed at containment, and thats why this will likely go on for a couple years

Finding out why they did it... doesnt really matter at this stage. It cant be corrected, its on them to have the personal growth to understand that this situation now is bigger than their personal feelings. That said, they are free to remain unvaxxed. They are not free from the social consequences of that

This is where I disagree. Unless you can provide me with concrete proof that COVID could have been eradicated, I call baloney.

We had a vaccine. We had several informal methods. We had lockdowns. We had early knowledge. We previously had a task force for such an occasion. And we have historical data of viruses being all but eradicated when vaccine levels hit a certain plateau

Dude I'm not going into this with you. You are on a wavelength where you want to talk about something else go for it. If you have any questions about the efficacy, the side effects, the other potential scare tactics, I'll help. I really dont care what you do with your family or anything like that. Thats entirely your business, and if they want to be part of the problem, they will be subject to the same criticism as anyone else.

[Hsker4Life]

And I just told you what that was because its been a very common occurrence the past 18 months

The spokesman can obviously not give personal medical details about the patient, even post mortem, and saying that it was due to respiratory ICU capacity would indicate what kind of disease he had, and thus violate his rights, which would be legally actionable by his family.

What you’re doing is talking out of your rear. You have no idea what the specialized care was that he required. But you are an even more clueless than originally thought if you truly think he as turned away by 43 hospitals in/near Alabama due to COVID numbers. Alabama’s hospital numbers aren’t there, and if they were, you’d be hearing about more than one death from several weeks ago.

2 posts after the article that stated Alabama was in dire straits with ICU beds

Save some Ls for the rest of the forum, jeez. This place is gonna be ReaGM before you’re done today

No one would deny hospitals are being taxed heavily right now. But you’re just foolish if you’re buying the story that this man died after 43 hospitals turned him away due to COVID numbers.

Alabama has open ICU beds. Less than 35% of ICU beds are occupied by COVID patients, and less than 15% of hospital beds are occupied by COVID patients. He wasn’t turned away by 43 hospitals because they couldn’t take him. He was transferred to an appropriate medical facility that could provide him with the special care he required.

[Pharmcat]

That's actually much higher than what I expected.

Me too, I'm actually pleased with it. Way higher than the general population

I’m extremely surprised too. I wonder if hearing from players like Kat and his mom (may she rip) and Tatum needing an inhaler before games help convince players to take it

[Pharmcat]

Anyway, I’m out. Not gonna risk a ban like others have gotten for dissenting, even though I’m posting respectfully and haven’t said not to vaccinate etc.

You posted a fake statistic, then when asked for a link, you refused to provide one.

It’s amazing that for guys that always tout that they do their own research they easily crumble when that research is scrutinized or asked for sources.

That’s why I’ve basically stopped engaging , it’s not done in good faith and the data isn’t provided. And I would love to see the data from their (reputable) sources.

[FNQ]

What you’re doing is talking out of your rear. You have no idea what the specialized care was that he required. But you are an even more clueless than originally thought if you truly think he as turned away by 43 hospitals in/near Alabama due to COVID numbers. Alabama’s hospital numbers aren’t there, and if they were, you’d be hearing about more than one death from several weeks ago.

2 posts after the article that stated Alabama was in dire straits with ICU beds

Save some Ls for the rest of the forum, jeez. This place is gonna be ReaGM before you’re done today

No one would deny hospitals are being taxed heavily right now. But you’re just foolish if you’re buying the story that this man died after 43 hospitals turned him away due to COVID numbers.

Alabama has open ICU beds. Less than 35% of ICU beds are occupied by COVID patients, and less than 15% of hospital beds are occupied by COVID patients. He wasn’t turned away by 43 hospitals because they couldn’t take him. He was transferred to an appropriate medical facility that could provide him with the special care he required.

I mean the deputy director of the biggest congolomerate of Alabama hospitals literally said that they couldnt staff enough people to open enough beds in Alabama.

Its 4 posts above.

Your ability to just swat away facts and repeat the same nonsense is just staggering. At what point should this be flagged as blatant misinformation?