NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[kdthunderup]

The Karen community has gone overboard. ITS A FACT that these immune boosters that are mislabeled as vaccines do not stop transmission. What they claim to do is boost your immune system. So Kyrie, Isaac etc. not taking the jab is NO THREAT to anyone else.

Covid "vaccines" are not sterilizing. It's not like the smallpox vaccine that kills the virus. Guess what folks, you take the jab, you can STILL GET COVID. and yes, people with strong immune systems, like pro athletes, get it and recover quickly by and large. Yes the threat of long covid or even death exists; but the statistical risk of a Beale or Kyrie dying of covid incredibly small.

Sure, your grandma's immune system probably can use a boost from these vaccines. Pro athletes? gimme a break.

All the righteousness is a joke given these facts. Just read the freaking studies and research.

Guys like Fauci straight up lie on camera. He said he wasn't funding gain of function research in Wuhan, turns out he did. Guys like Scott Gottlieb are straight up corrupt, going straight from high govt office to the Pfizer board, openly advocating for kids to take the vax when they likely don't need it.

This whole thing is a liberal freakout. It's become total orthodoxy and 99% of the people commenting haven't taken the time to study the issue and just repeat the word "vaccine" over and over.

Newsflash, science doesn't know how to kill coronaviruses. Sure it would be nice. But the Pfizer / Moderna CEOs are straight up criminals, selling drugs as vaccines that aren't really vaccines, to the point of lobbying for kids to take them when studies aren't showing a need.

Big pharma is a big scam.

Strike: Derailing (Political rhetoric)

The vaccine decreases your chance of becoming infected and also developing severe symptoms.

This is why the United States is screwed, everyone only thinks selfishly of how it will effect them. Most developed countries have surpassed the US in vaccination coverage despite starting their rollout later and are doing significantly better with hospitalisations and deaths. The more we can slow the spread the more **** lives that are saved. Also AZ is sold at cost which is what a lot of the rest of the world is using to great effect. Put the tin foil hat away you space cadet.

[FNQ]

You have no idea what the specialized care was that he required.

Cardiac ICU. Again, literally in the article.

And yes, I do know all about cardiac ICUs (CCU). The CCU, often times paired with the PCU or CVCU, is where specifically cardiac patients go so that specialists can see all their patients faster, and keep relevant supplies closer. Much like in SF early in the pandemic, some CCU/CVCU's were repurposed for COVID patients because of the dramatic influx and need for a lot of the same equipment.

[Dominator83]

Yeah, that's just a straightup lie. Fact is, even if we had near total vaccination there would STILL be covid and still be hospitalizations. I looked at the data, you did not. These vaccines are not sterilizing, that's science.

Proof? Look at Israel's data. They have near total vaccination yet a massive surge.

Here's another fact, Israeli studies showed that having recovered from covid like Beale has, gives 6 to 12x more protection than the "vaccines that are really immune boosters". The Karen community keeps ignoring this fact that natural immunity is superior to the vaccines.

What exactly is the Karen community?

Let it go.

Google the term if you require a point of reference and please stay on topic.

I get it. It just that when someone takes cheap shots at a group of people, i'd like to know the premise of these insults. Google says it's a group in Minnesota that helps refugees BTW

The funny thing is, I agree with him on a lot of stuff. I too feel this entire pandemic had been WAY overblown and built on fear. Crazy how all it took was for Rudy Gobert to test positive and the whole country went bonkers with overreaction.

I'm not really a pro-vax guy, but i got it. More and more things are requiring it for entry (like soon to be live Nation concerts) and to me it's not THAT big of a deal, so I got the shot. Why people are so hardcore to-the-death against it is beyond me. Especially when it comes to forfeiting jobs and/or salary, it just ain't THAT serious. Just being told I wouldn't be allowed into shows was enough for me to say holding out just ain't worth it lol

[Hsker4Life]

Again, there would be more than one example cited in an obituary if patients were dying because Alabama ICUs were turning away critical care heart patients due to occupancy levels. You're taking something true and concerning (COVID is taxing the medical field), and sensationalizing it into something it isn't: "HORRIFIC STORY! MAN DIES AFTER 43 HOSPITALS TURN HIM AWAY DUE TO COVID!!!!!!"

You're an alarmist and you will not be satisfied until everyone else is in as much fear as you are.

[michaelm]

Again, there would be more than one example cited in an obituary if patients were dying because Alabama ICUs were turning away critical care heart patients due to occupancy levels. You're taking something true and concerning (COVID is taxing the medical field), and sensationalizing it into something it isn't: "HORRIFIC STORY! MAN DIES AFTER 43 HOSPITALS TURN HIM AWAY DUE TO COVID!!!!!!"

You're an alarmist and you will not be satisfied until everyone else is in as much fear as you are.

As someone who together with his wife has been working in the hospital system during the pandemic perhaps he has a different perspective than you do.

[Hsker4Life]

Again, there would be more than one example cited in an obituary if patients were dying because Alabama ICUs were turning away critical care heart patients due to occupancy levels. You're taking something true and concerning (COVID is taxing the medical field), and sensationalizing it into something it isn't: "HORRIFIC STORY! MAN DIES AFTER 43 HOSPITALS TURN HIM AWAY DUE TO COVID!!!!!!"

You're an alarmist and you will not be satisfied until everyone else is in as much fear as you are.

As someone who together with his wife has been working in the hospital system during the pandemic perhaps he has a different perspective than you do.

Of course we all have different perspectives. Mine is partially shaped by my wife being an RN as well.

COVID is a real damn problem. Everyone who is able to, should get vaccinated (should, not shall). It IS taxing on the healthcare system. But sensationalizing things aren't going to benefit anyone. In fact, it's going to make things worse, as it'll likely turn off those sitting on the fence with certain issues. Fat chance that man died because of anything to do with COVID numbers. He had a very serious medical condition. He was receiving medical care at a very well respected medical facility for over a week before he tragically died.

[michaelm]

“ Among 17 rural Wisconsin schools, reported student mask-wearing was high, and the COVID-19 incidence among students and staff members was lower than in the county overall (3,453 versus 5,466 per 100,000). Among 191 cases identified in students and staff members, only seven (3.7%) cases, all among students, were linked to in-school spread.”

That’s quite weak.

Reported mask wearing is high
Rates of COVID 19 amonst the staff and students was low
Your analysis: students shouldn't need to wear masks.

... really?

I'm really starting to suspect that you don't understand how studies work. You certainly don't understand how questions work:

Again, source? I'm sure its legitimate, not like some random substack or something.

Also, your image from before? Its not listed there. Whered you get it?

But look, there's obviously no way you were gonna admit you were wrong, just moving the goalposts from the flu being stronger than COVID to now kids shouldnt have to wear masks... you do whatever you need to. I'll just pop up when you start making inaccurate claims. It just makes no sense to me why someone would continuously make incorrect assertions when your research consists of substack posts and google searching. I'd wager that your search was something along the lines of "which study proves masks in schools dont work" because it sure would be a lot tougher to find that study you found if you put in "are masks in schools effective?"

You continue to be intellectually dishonest.

I switched to kids shouldn’t have to wear masks? That was my whole point. Kids shouldn’t have to be made to wear masks when COVID doesn’t effect them in significant numbers, no more than the flu. I’ve provided studies that support this. You’ve provided studies that suggest otherwise. But both sides of the spectrum should agree that it’s rare for kids to be severely impacted by a COVID infection.

I also provided a very detailed study that showed no evidence of mask mandates slowing the spread of COVID amongst students in a school setting. You don’t like that. You want to be alarmed. And you want others to be just as scared as you are.

You continue with your dishonest ways. You being unable to even admit you were wrong by suggesting I lied proves without any doubt you’re incapable of having an honest discussion.

I can see problems both with kids wearing masks and studying same. Practically I don’t know at what age you could get them to wear masks and/or wear them properly. I don’t think you could ethically undertake a controlled trial which involved removing other measures such as ventilation from a cohort of children. Delta is very different in terms of infectivity so previous data from the initial variant would have limited applicability to the current situation with delta now the dominant strain. From what I have read with the delta variant children thankfully still tend not to get very sick/as sick as adults but are much more likely to both get infected and to spread the virus; they didn’t spread the virus much with the original strain.

[SpreeChokeJob]

The Karen community has gone overboard. ITS A FACT that these immune boosters that are mislabeled as vaccines do not stop transmission. What they claim to do is boost your immune system. So Kyrie, Isaac etc. not taking the jab is NO THREAT to anyone else.

Covid "vaccines" are not sterilizing. It's not like the smallpox vaccine that kills the virus. Guess what folks, you take the jab, you can STILL GET COVID. and yes, people with strong immune systems, like pro athletes, get it and recover quickly by and large. Yes the threat of long covid or even death exists; but the statistical risk of a Beale or Kyrie dying of covid incredibly small.

Sure, your grandma's immune system probably can use a boost from these vaccines. Pro athletes? gimme a break.

All the righteousness is a joke given these facts. Just read the freaking studies and research.

Guys like Fauci straight up lie on camera. He said he wasn't funding gain of function research in Wuhan, turns out he did. Guys like Scott Gottlieb are straight up corrupt, going straight from high govt office to the Pfizer board, openly advocating for kids to take the vax when they likely don't need it.

This whole thing is a liberal freakout. It's become total orthodoxy and 99% of the people commenting haven't taken the time to study the issue and just repeat the word "vaccine" over and over.

Newsflash, science doesn't know how to kill coronaviruses. Sure it would be nice. But the Pfizer / Moderna CEOs are straight up criminals, selling drugs as vaccines that aren't really vaccines, to the point of lobbying for kids to take them when studies aren't showing a need.

Big pharma is a big scam.

Strike: Derailing (Political rhetoric)

The vaccine decreases your chance of becoming infected and also developing severe symptoms.

This is why the United States is screwed, everyone only thinks selfishly of how it will effect them. Most developed countries have surpassed the US in vaccination coverage despite starting their rollout later and are doing significantly better with hospitalisations and deaths. The more we can slow the spread the more **** lives that are saved. Also AZ is sold at cost which is what a lot of the rest of the world is using to great effect. Put the tin foil hat away you space cadet.

That's why in a real zombie apocalypse, people need to bail out of the US. The zombie deniers will deny up to the point they are eaten.

[FNQ]

Again, there would be more than one example cited in an obituary if patients were dying because Alabama ICUs were turning away critical care heart patients due to occupancy levels. You're taking something true and concerning (COVID is taxing the medical field), and sensationalizing it into something it isn't: "HORRIFIC STORY! MAN DIES AFTER 43 HOSPITALS TURN HIM AWAY DUE TO COVID!!!!!!"

You're an alarmist and you will not be satisfied until everyone else is in as much fear as you are.

As someone who together with his wife has been working in the hospital system during the pandemic perhaps he has a different perspective than you do.

Of course we all have different perspectives. Mine is partially shaped by my wife being an RN as well.

COVID is a real damn problem. Everyone who is able to, should get vaccinated (should, not shall). It IS taxing on the healthcare system. But sensationalizing things aren't going to benefit anyone. In fact, it's going to make things worse, as it'll likely turn off those sitting on the fence with certain issues. Fat chance that man died because of anything to do with COVID numbers. He had a very serious medical condition. He was receiving medical care at a very well respected medical facility for over a week before he tragically died.

Sensationalizing by... saying whats happening. The article was clear about it, the family was clear about it.. but nah, they made it all up. I'm making up that it happened in extremely liberal SF. I and numerous reports made up that COVID is more dangerous to children than the flu. When exactly does it end... when does everyone else stop being wrong, and maybe its you?

[FNQ]

Reported mask wearing is high
Rates of COVID 19 amonst the staff and students was low
Your analysis: students shouldn't need to wear masks.

... really?

I'm really starting to suspect that you don't understand how studies work. You certainly don't understand how questions work:




But look, there's obviously no way you were gonna admit you were wrong, just moving the goalposts from the flu being stronger than COVID to now kids shouldnt have to wear masks... you do whatever you need to. I'll just pop up when you start making inaccurate claims. It just makes no sense to me why someone would continuously make incorrect assertions when your research consists of substack posts and google searching. I'd wager that your search was something along the lines of "which study proves masks in schools dont work" because it sure would be a lot tougher to find that study you found if you put in "are masks in schools effective?"

You continue to be intellectually dishonest.

I switched to kids shouldn’t have to wear masks? That was my whole point. Kids shouldn’t have to be made to wear masks when COVID doesn’t effect them in significant numbers, no more than the flu. I’ve provided studies that support this. You’ve provided studies that suggest otherwise. But both sides of the spectrum should agree that it’s rare for kids to be severely impacted by a COVID infection.

I also provided a very detailed study that showed no evidence of mask mandates slowing the spread of COVID amongst students in a school setting. You don’t like that. You want to be alarmed. And you want others to be just as scared as you are.

You continue with your dishonest ways. You being unable to even admit you were wrong by suggesting I lied proves without any doubt you’re incapable of having an honest discussion.

I can see problems both with kids wearing masks and studying same. Practically I don’t know at what age you could get them to wear masks and/or wear them properly. I don’t think you could ethically undertake a controlled trial which involved removing other measures such as ventilation from a cohort of children. Delta is very different in terms of infectivity so previous data from the initial variant would have limited applicability to the current situation with delta now the dominant strain. From what I have read with the delta variant children thankfully still tend not to get very sick/as sick as adults but are much more likely to both get infected and to spread the virus; they didn’t spread the virus much with the original strain.

But the trials werent just for kids wearing masks, they were about mandates and their effect on surrounding areas as well. Great majority of surrounding areas that had mask mandates in schools fared much better than ones that didn't, just as school started. CDC has been clear about it, the data supports it. Which trends toward a simple fact:

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html

The researchers enrolled nearly 350,000 people from 600 villages in rural Bangladesh. Those living in villages randomly assigned to a series of interventions promoting the use of surgical masks were about 11% less likely than those living in control villages to develop COVID-19, which is caused by infection with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, during the eight-week study period. The protective effect increased to nearly 35% for people over 60 years old.

Providing free masks, informing people about the importance of covering both the mouth and nose, reminding people in-person when they were unmasked in public, and role-modeling by community leaders tripled regular mask usage compared with control villages that received no interventions, the researchers found.

Heightened awareness = better results

[FNQ]

Again, there would be more than one example cited in an obituary if patients were dying because Alabama ICUs were turning away critical care heart patients due to occupancy levels. You're taking something true and concerning (COVID is taxing the medical field), and sensationalizing it into something it isn't: "HORRIFIC STORY! MAN DIES AFTER 43 HOSPITALS TURN HIM AWAY DUE TO COVID!!!!!!"

You're an alarmist and you will not be satisfied until everyone else is in as much fear as you are.

https://news.yale.edu/2021/02/01/lack-icu-beds-tied-thousands-excess-covid-19-deaths

Yale is sensationalizing; lying

https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article253761928.html

Sacramento hospital sensationalizing; lying

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/

Texas hospital lying

https://www.necn.com/news/local/maine-tops-1000-covid-deaths-as-delta-variant-fills-hospitals/2558962/

Maine lying

https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/hospitals-fill-up-as-hawaii-sets-new-daily-record-of-covid-cases-and-deaths/

Hawaii dangerously close to hitting their limit a month ago, COVID numbers gone up since

https://pamplinmedia.com/pt/9-news/519451-414842-oregon-hospital-overcrowding-leading-to-patient-deaths

Oregon lying

Read on Twitter

Lady on twitter lies about her father's similar experience in New Mexico

Funny thing is, you won't hear anything about these issues if you don't listen

[michaelm]

Again, there would be more than one example cited in an obituary if patients were dying because Alabama ICUs were turning away critical care heart patients due to occupancy levels. You're taking something true and concerning (COVID is taxing the medical field), and sensationalizing it into something it isn't: "HORRIFIC STORY! MAN DIES AFTER 43 HOSPITALS TURN HIM AWAY DUE TO COVID!!!!!!"

You're an alarmist and you will not be satisfied until everyone else is in as much fear as you are.

As someone who together with his wife has been working in the hospital system during the pandemic perhaps he has a different perspective than you do.

Of course we all have different perspectives. Mine is partially shaped by my wife being an RN as well.

COVID is a real damn problem. Everyone who is able to, should get vaccinated (should, not shall). It IS taxing on the healthcare system. But sensationalizing things aren't going to benefit anyone. In fact, it's going to make things worse, as it'll likely turn off those sitting on the fence with certain issues. Fat chance that man died because of anything to do with COVID numbers. He had a very serious medical condition. He was receiving medical care at a very well respected medical facility for over a week before he tragically died.

Sure, but ICUs nearly being over run is not far short of them being over run, and as you would know from your wife even if you could ramp up iCU acreage and equipment overnight you can’t do the same with ICU staff. Even in Australia, with small numbers by world standards, in the state where I live they have pretty much cancelled elective surgery and the likes of paramedics and ICU staff are to my certain knowledge getting very weary. There is an added problem with Covid patients in that they tend to stay in ICU much longer than regular ICU patients like post surgical patients etc.

At least In Australia we don’t have the added element which I imagine would annoy me were I a health worker in an American ICU that many of the patients wouldn’t need to be there if they had got vaccinated, with vaccination I would venture to suggest looking like a no brainer to many health workers. Our problem here was that we pretty much managed Covid zero in most of Australia with the original virus, and due probably mainly to complacency and lack of urgency, as well as some misfortune with vaccine supply, we didn’t have a high vaccination rate when the delta variant arrived on our shores, although they had managed a high rate in aged care facilities. We look like getting a 90% vaccination rate in those over 16, mainly voluntarily. That nearly all the 80.000 odd cases in Australia since June 2021 have been fairly definitely traced back to one unvaccinated limousine driver who transported an international aircrew is a source of frustration for some, but not so much for me since I think the delta variant was inevitable one way or another.

[Raptors Realtor]

I had the virus, it took me 3 days to fight it off. Turns out all the vitamin D, zinc etc. I take worked.

I hope you enjoy booster shots every 8 moths, Pfizer's daily pill etc. Pretty sure the Pfizer and Moderna CEOs will roll out an implant that drips their MRNA love into your bloodstream every second soon too. As for me... I'm fine with not being on the iPhone subscription model for immune system boosters. I'll go with 2 million years of evolution over this experimental MRNA crap.

Fun fact, only the survivors of plagues passed along their DNA to continue the evolutionary process. There were millions who didn't.

The black plague's death rate was comically higher than covid. This isn't the apocalyptic virus you're looking for - but give Fauci and his mad scientist buddies time, if they get to keep doing research INTENDED TO CREATE superviruses*, one will indeed emerge.

* see https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/

I picture you being like this...

[jbk1234]

There needs to be some reality i this discussion though: pro athletes, who probably had the virus already like Beale....don't have the same risk profile. If you're 300 pounds get the vax. If you're in tip top shape you have minimal risk either way. The mass media message to get vaxed isn't realistic on this point.

This has been one of the most disturbing things about this "casedemic". The idea that every humanbeing all fit into one box and therefore should be all vaxxed regardless of circumstances and/or personal choice has been one the most anti-scientific displays I have ever seen. People have completely over looked the data that shows if you aren't elderly or have MULTIPLE commorbidities covid is less deadly than the flu. Just saying it in some people's minds make you so kind of wack job or somehow less caring about life.

The overwhelming majority of people who die of the flu are elderly and/or have comorbidities though. You can't remove the most vulnerable from one stack of dead bodies, include them in the other, and then claim the stack without the vulnerable people reflects a less deadly virus. Covid, and Delta in particular, is far more deadly than the flu.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Dr Aki]

Are there still people saying it's less deadly than the flu?

I mean, the statistics aren't exactly hard to look up.

[FNQ]

NYT today reporting 55% of those hospitalized now in the USA at this moment are vaccinated.

Link?

Just for fun, I scraped the NYT API for the following 3 word combos, updated within the past 48 hours:
(primer below for anyone who likes programming at all)
https://towardsdatascience.com/scraping-news-and-articles-from-public-apis-with-python-be84521d85b9

"COVID" "breakthrough" "55%"
"COVID" "vaccinated" "55%"
"COVID" "breakthrough" "tracker"
"COVID" "vaccinated" "tracker"

and I also subbed out COVID for COVID-19 and Coronavirus

No hits. Scraping isnt an exact method but it works more often than not. I dont think we should take the above % at face value, I would imagine such a number would be big-time fodder for antivaxxers all over the bird app.

It would also be way out of lockstep with the Bay Area, who leaned heavily towards unvaccinated people being active patients towards end of August, and incredibly so with regards to the ICU

[FNQ]

Are there still people saying it's less deadly than the flu?

I mean, the statistics aren't exactly hard to look up.

Someone earlier was insistent that this was the case in children, even with a comprehensive study showing it to be false. So yeah, still out there unfortunately

[BlackThought]

I'll take pain killers in order to play games and risk perm injury to my body but I won't take a vaccine.

[Dr Aki]

You posted a fake statistic, then when asked for a link, you refused to provide one.

It’s amazing that for guys that always tout that they do their own research they easily crumble when that research is scrutinized or asked for sources.

That’s why I’ve basically stopped engaging , it’s not done in good faith and the data isn’t provided. And I would love to see the data from their (reputable) sources.

+1

If you've ever watched the Netflix doco Behind The Curve about Flat Earthers, there's the bit at the end of the credits where they form a perfectly valid hypothesis regarding whether the path light travels would be curved due to gravity, create a great experiment to measure the potential curve of the earth (that is, if the light doesn't curve, the light should travel in a straight line and the Earth is flat, and vice versa, if it does, that the Earth is curved)

And when the light beam hits below where they thought it would (because gravity), they raise the light beam, it hits, they say "Hmmm, that's interesting" and then continue to disregard the evidence.

Spoiler:

Campanella watches when the light is activated at the same height as the holes, but the light can't be seen on the camera screen. "Lift up your light, way above your head," Campanella says. With the compensation made for the curvature of the Earth, the light immediately appears on the camera. "Interesting," Campanella says. "That's interesting." The documentary ends.

There's just no reason to put yourself through the frustration

[Mephariel]

As someone who works in the biomedical community, it is insane to see how much misinformation is out there. According to CDC, the unvaccinated are 29 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID, 11 times more likely to die, and 5 times as likely to get infected compared to vaccinated individuals. If you look at the map, vaccinated states are doing far better per capita than unvaccinated states. Even people already infected with COVID do better with hybrid immunity according to preliminary studies.

I still hear a bunch of people saying the vaccines are experimental. The vaccines are FDA approved and vaccine developers didn’t skip any testing steps, but conducted some of the steps on an overlapping schedule to gather data faster to gain emergency approval. Plus, unlike many other vaccines development, there were hundreds of thousands of volunteers and patients. The safety standards were no different than any of the other clinical trials.

As for mRNA, the technology as been around since the 1990s and research has been going on for years. It makes no sense to fear the side effects. Historically speaking, vaccines do not have side effects past 6 months. Also, mRNA dissolves in your body. It doesn't just hang out for 20 years and suddenly remerge to attack you. It is not some AI machine. mRNA doesn't enter the nucleus of your cells. Whatever side effects there are, they are not as bad as being stuck in a ventilator dying from COVID. Or organ damage. Or long term breathing problems.

Lastly, I keep hearing people say that athletes are strong and they don't need the vaccine like "sick" and "fat" people. Do any of you watch the UFC? Fighters are some of the fittest people on earth and COVID knocked them out for months. Also, players are walking around other people too, not just other athletes.

It is crazy how much misinformation is there out there. I remember reading about a guy saying he didn't want the vaccine because he didn't want to the first guy to take it. He wasn't. By the time the vaccine was available, hundreds of thousands of people have already taken it in clinical trials. Then I read recently another person said she needs more "clinical trial III data." LOL. As if she knows how to read data. Unless you are a doctor or has a Ph.D in the field of biomedicine, you are not going to be able to draw conclusions to anything. I work in the preclinical field so I know how hard it is to interpret data. There could be many different factors.