What do we give to get Ben Simmons?

[pepe1991]

Yeah, I'm actually shocked this thread has gained the traction it has. Especially since we've already taken on Philly's last reclamation project in Fultz.

Dude: the Magic got Fultz for Jonathon Simmons, a top-20-protected first (which will NEVER convert), and a 2019 second.

If the Magic can acquire Simmons for such a terrible package, of course the Magic trade for him. For example, if the Magic could trade Harris, Ross, Anthony and the Denver pick for Simmons, of course WeHamm makes that trade.

..

actually,we traded pick that turned into Maxey for Fultz so i'm not really sold on idea of us "winning" trade, especially because Fultz still is worst 1# pick since Bennett, by wide margin.

[drsd]

actually,we traded pick that turned into Maxey for Fultz so i'm not really sold on idea of us "winning" trade, especially because Fultz still is worst 1# pick since Bennett, by wide margin.

For me it is not about whether Fultz is worth the overall #1. It is about whether the Magic improved their roster by trading medicore and bad assets for an unknown. You say no and I say yes, perhaps. But the "cost" to Orlando was so minor, there is no real downside for me.

As to Maxey, right now he looks like a marginal backup in the NBA. AND: we have no idea what Orlando does at 21 anyhow. That Orlando now has Hampton (selected 24), probably that is who the Magic draft. That Orlando now has Hampton, I cannot see the difference.

In conclusion: I think Orlando "won" the Fultz trade. And I think there is no-way-in-heck the Magic trade Simmons to the Magic under any scenario. It is a moo point for me; a cow's opinion.


..

[pepe1991]

actually,we traded pick that turned into Maxey for Fultz so i'm not really sold on idea of us "winning" trade, especially because Fultz still is worst 1# pick since Bennett, by wide margin.

For me it is not about whether Fultz is worth the overall #1. It is about whether the Magic improved their roster by trading medicore and bad assets for an unknown. You say no and I say yes, perhaps. But the "cost" to Orlando was so minor, there is no real downside for me.

As to Maxey, right now he looks like a marginal backup in the NBA. AND: we have no idea what Orlando does at 21 anyhow. That Orlando now has Hampton (selected 24), probably that is who the Magic draft. That Orlando now has Hampton, I cannot see the difference.

In conclusion: I think Orlando "won" the Fultz trade. And I think there is no-way-in-heck the Magic trade Simmons to the Magic under any scenario. It is a moo point for me; a cow's opinion.


..

Tbh i'm not really sure Fultz is any better player than Maxey even today.
Two guards who can't shoot , who are scoring guards and who don't really know how to run offense.

76ers traded him away just to get away from all the negative press they were getting by his reputation of him being epic bust. People forgot they traded away 3rd pick ( Tatum ) to get him

[OrlChamps2030]

Yeah, I'm actually shocked this thread has gained the traction it has. Especially since we've already taken on Philly's last reclamation project in Fultz.

I get that he's not what Fultz was. He's already a legitimate top 10 defender in this league, but he's also a 35 plus million dollar player who was passing up open layups in the playoffs && refuses to take a shot outside of the painted area as well. Let's not even get into some of the diva character issues either, which arguably dates back to his lone season at LSU.

He's not a guy I want to build a team around, && when you factor in his deficiencies and contract I think you'll have to.

Being shocked seems a little dramatic. I mean, we’re the the Vegas projected worst team in the league and he’s a 25 year old all star on the trade market who looks likely to be a perennial all defensive first team. One of the fastest players in the league with the ball in his hands.. despite being 6”11. Talk about tools you can’t teach.

Just like any deal if the price is right I’m interested, but if it involves Suggs or 3 first rounders , no thank you.

The Simmons hate is reaching crazy levels, guys are acting like they wouldn’t take him for free. I get it, he’s not worth what Morey has been asking for, but he’s still a good player that a lot of teams would be lucky to have.

Not to mention, it can be tough to be a young all star on a contending team in a major market. Literally, the fan base and media in Orlando is Disney esque compared to Philly. 0 expectations here, and I think he would be a great player to pair up with Suggs. The transition game and defense would be infectious.

[thelead]

If we didn't have Suggs, I would be less interested. Yes we need 3 point shooting but Ben is an all-star level player. I would be seriously looking into it.

[jonbob17]

Yeah, I'm actually shocked this thread has gained the traction it has. Especially since we've already taken on Philly's last reclamation project in Fultz.

Dude: the Magic got Fultz for Jonathon Simmons, a top-20-protected first (which will NEVER convert), and a 2019 second.

If the Magic can acquire Simmons for such a terrible package, of course the Magic trade for him. For example, if the Magic could trade Harris, Ross, Anthony and the Denver pick for Simmons, of course WeHamm makes that trade.

..

actually,we traded pick that turned into Maxey for Fultz so i'm not really sold on idea of us "winning" trade, especially because Fultz still is worst 1# pick since Bennett, by wide margin.

Fultz was a salary dump. It is as simple as that. At the time the Magic acquired Fultz, he was owed $25M on his rookie deal. The Sixers needed some cap space to sign one of Tobias Harris or Jimmy Butler. If the Magic didn't trade for him, he might not have had his fourth year picked up.

Simmons is a different player and has significant value. The Sixers still think they can wait Lillard or Beal out. Personally I think they can get the latter. The Magic probably don't have the assets to make a deal happen. If they trade for Simmons, their draft capital becomes less valuable as the Magic move up the standings. A team like Washington would definitely be interested in Suggs, but that's not happening, so what's left of value? JI+a young guy, plus first rounders....probably not enough.

[AaronB]

[/quote]
A team like Washington would definitely be interested in Suggs, but that's not happening, so what's left of value? JI+a young guy, plus first rounders....probably not enough.[/quote]

An unvaccinated JI has a negative trade value. No one is trading anything of value for him.

[Skin]

8 pages of Ben Simmons??? I thought this team needed more 3pt shooting. Simmons is the opposite of what fits us. Jeez.

We are Jalen Suggs + _____

That is the honest truth. Forget what you “know” about this roster based on recent years.

Our mission now to surround him with enough talent that we can win meaningful games and hang onto him longer than we have other stars (if he in fact is that star many expect him to be).

That's crazy and wishful thinking.

WeHam gutted this roster. Everyone here is handpicked. Last thing the FO is thinking is that our future is Suggs + ______. ...and if they add Simmons as a core player to build around, then they are laughable.

[Skin]

I would take Simmons if the price was right.

He's only 25.

JI + fillers for Simmons. Do you do it?

I wouldn't do it straight up. Simmons is NOT a player capable of being on a winning caliber championship team. Philly knows this. He was a DISASTER in the playoffs. Tired of Magic fans drooling over players with faded shine from other teams.

[MagicFan101]

8 pages of Ben Simmons??? I thought this team needed more 3pt shooting. Simmons is the opposite of what fits us. Jeez.

We are Jalen Suggs + _____

That is the honest truth. Forget what you “know” about this roster based on recent years.

Our mission now to surround him with enough talent that we can win meaningful games and hang onto him longer than we have other stars (if he in fact is that star many expect him to be).

That's crazy and wishful thinking.

WeHam gutted this roster. Everyone here is handpicked. Last thing the FO is thinking is that our future is Suggs + ______. ...and if they add Simmons as a core player to build around, then they are laughable.

Saying “Everyone here is handpicked” borders on saying everyone is close to untradeable in the eyes of WeHam. Is that what you believe?

Yes, they pushed for RJ to be included in the AG deal and that was the right thing to do. Does that mean he was a guy we targeted to build around or does it mean we were moving on from AG and he was what we settled for from one of the few team that called? Which is more likely?

Cole was the #15 pick. Yes, you can use the wording “they handpicked him” as all draft selections are but does that mean he is 100% part of our long term core?

Chuma and Franz should be considered pieces we hang onto. Isaac as well if he can stay healthy but we know that story.

After that … ? We just have to see how guys mesh and what else becomes available.

[OrlChamps2030]

I would take Simmons if the price was right.

He's only 25.

JI + fillers for Simmons. Do you do it?

I wouldn't do it straight up. Simmons is NOT a player capable of being on a winning caliber championship team. Philly knows this. He was a DISASTER in the playoffs. Tired of Magic fans drooling over players with faded shine from other teams.

I agree it did get pretty ugly down the stretch for Simmons in the playoffs.

But if Simmons was a disaster in the playoffs, what about Jon Isaac? He dropped 6/6 on 27%FG 20% from 3. And can't stay on the court since then..

[Knightro]

I love Jonathan Isaac, but Ben Simmons is a significantly better basketball player, is under contract for his age 25-26-27-28 seasons and doesn't have Isaac's insane injury history.

I don't think the Magic would do it, but if that was on the table, they'd be foolish not to do it.

Isaac is only a year younger.

[pepe1991]

JI + fillers for Simmons. Do you do it?

I wouldn't do it straight up. Simmons is NOT a player capable of being on a winning caliber championship team. Philly knows this. He was a DISASTER in the playoffs. Tired of Magic fans drooling over players with faded shine from other teams.

I agree it did get pretty ugly down the stretch for Simmons in the playoffs.

But if Simmons was a disaster in the playoffs, what about Jon Isaac? He dropped 6/6 on 27%FG 20% from 3. And can't stay on the court since then..

And overvalue of Jonathan Ibaka continues.

[Skin]

We are Jalen Suggs + _____

That is the honest truth. Forget what you “know” about this roster based on recent years.

Our mission now to surround him with enough talent that we can win meaningful games and hang onto him longer than we have other stars (if he in fact is that star many expect him to be).

That's crazy and wishful thinking.

WeHam gutted this roster. Everyone here is handpicked. Last thing the FO is thinking is that our future is Suggs + ______. ...and if they add Simmons as a core player to build around, then they are laughable.

Saying “Everyone here is handpicked” borders on saying everyone is close to untradeable in the eyes of WeHam. Is that what you believe?

Yes, they pushed for RJ to be included in the AG deal and that was the right thing to do. Does that mean he was a guy we targeted to build around or does it mean we were moving on from AG and he was what we settled for from one of the few team that called? Which is more likely?

Cole was the #15 pick. Yes, you can use the wording “they handpicked him” as all draft selections are but does that mean he is 100% part of our long term core?

Chuma and Franz should be considered pieces we hang onto. Isaac as well if he can stay healthy but we know that story.

After that … ? We just have to see how guys mesh and what else becomes available.

I'm not huge fans of Cole or RJ, but I still wouldn't trade them for Simmons. Simmons has zero potential left. He is what he is and he's flawed and expensive.

[Skin]

I love Jonathan Isaac, but Ben Simmons is a significantly better basketball player, under contract for his age 25-26-27-28 seasons and doesn't have Isaac's insane injury history.

I don't think the Magic would do it, but if that was on the table, they'd be foolish not to do it.

Isaac is only a year younger.

Simmons is a significantly better NOTHING. In his prime and played like a turd with stars all around him. You say you love Isaac, but does that mean you LOOOOOOOVE Simmons? That's crazy.

[pepe1991]

I love Jonathan Isaac, but Ben Simmons is a significantly better basketball player, under contract for his age 25-26-27-28 seasons and doesn't have Isaac's insane injury history.

I don't think the Magic would do it, but if that was on the table, they'd be foolish not to do it.

Isaac is only a year younger.

Simmons is a significantly better NOTHING. In his prime and played like a turd with stars all around him. You say you love Isaac, but does that mean you LOOOOOOOVE Simmons? That's crazy.

So in your mind Isaac is better than Simmons?

In his prime is interesting way to put it, since Ben is just 16 months older than Isaac. But Orlando is banking so hard on development of Isaac, but according to that logic, it's delusional since he is in his prime, right ? And this is best you will get? Or we have double standards ? Or player is "young and exiting and will develop " at age of 24 but "in his prime and finished product" as soon as 25th birthday comes?
Explain, i'm a dummy.


Reality. Isaac never plays and when he does play, he is much worst basketball player than Simmons. Both come with lot of issues, not just playing ones, but one is 25 and has been allstar 3 times and all nba first team member once, and 2 times all nba defensive team member, other has been... well known among ortopedic surgeons since he is their patient every year. Every healthy , non biased , logical conversation with Isaac comes with questions like:
- is next injury career ending
- will he ever play more than 50 games
- is it realistic to expect improvments in his game when he never plays enough to actually develop
- 3 injuries on same leg, will now healthy leg become issue


Reality of his situation is that within his 4 years contract, he probably won't play more than 60% of possible games. And if another injury happends ,we can talk about 30-40% of time playing. And even when he did play, and was healthy, there wasn't really anything that would suggest anybody that Isaac is anything more than poor man Porzingis before injuries, some all around better defensive version of Ibaka.

But Orlando's fanbase lacks shiny new toys, so kids play with old ones
If Orlando draft Benchero or Jovic or Wagner looks legit, nobody will talk about Isaac any more.

[YosemiteSam]

I hate Isaac because he makes me 100% agree with Pepe on something. And that makes me feel dirty.

A great litmus test for Magic RealGM is right now today who would you straight up trade Isaac for one for one (no salary implications, just talent and potential)?

I’d say Saddiq Bey would do it for me. Position, age and skill set. Of course we could have just drafted him last year instead of the overconfident and redundant ball hog we did.

[Skybox]

I'm really high on Isaac but, even without injuries (!) he cannot be compared to Ben Simmons' on-court skillset. You can run that "scared to dunk" reel over and over in your head all you want, but Simmons has (read Pepe's highlight reel for details)...Isaac, IMO, has top 25 potential ...but it's a longshot. I'm happy to roll with Isaac, but Simmons would be a MAJOR upgrade.

[AaronB]

Same here.

The simple fact is that the Magic would have to attach 1st rounders (plural) to get a second rounder to get rid of Isaac. He is over paid (although there is an out if his knee buckles again I believe) and unvaccinated. I am not a vaccine n@zi, but not being vaccinated creates negative value. It just does.

I hate Isaac because he makes me 100% agree with Pepe on something. And that makes me feel dirty.

A great litmus test for Magic RealGM is right now today who would you straight up trade Isaac for one for one (no salary implications, just talent and potential)?

I’d say Saddiq Bey would do it for me. Position, age and skill set. Of course we could have just drafted him last year instead of the overconfident and redundant ball hog we did.

[MagicFan101]

There is no chance the 76ers would talk to us about a Simmons deal unless we are including Suggs or a mountain of unprotected picks.

I’m only discussing it because I’m bored.

Still, the fact that we have some long term posters here who don’t see the difference in value and skill between Simmons and Isaac is head scratching and borderline frightening. We aren’t talking Simmons vs. Durant here … it’s Jonathan ‘the-cripple Isaac!!!! Come on man!

… I’m still a fan of Isaac (the player) for what he can do on the defensive side of the ball. Don’t get me wrong. But he can’t stay healthy, has a lot of limitations of offense and brings his own set of drama.