GOAT of actual 5'11" and under

[Hoop Heavy]

Tomorrow I'm going to start a "GOAT of 5'4" and under" thread.

There is no question about it. Muggsy will eventually win.

[ellobo]

If you're counting an official height of 6-1 as qualifying for 6ft and under, Bob Cousy should be considered.

And Tim Hardaway, listed at 6-0, should be considered for the 5-11 poll. He's definitely better than the likes of Michael Adams, Damon Stoudamire, and Spud Webb, although they're listed as 5-10 or shorter.

[Tim Kempton]

He won't win (nor should he), but Damon Stoudamire deserves a mention. He had a real solid career with Toronto and Portland.

I will also nominate KJ. Pretty sure he's like 5'11. Both classic 90s guards

KJ is listed at 6'1, but I agree that he's likely shorter. If he is, he definitely belongs on this list.

[Texas Chuck]

The Barea disrespect in these threads is getting silly.

[pesfan321]

Is Dame Lilard actually 6 foot?

Nope. He's 6'1.5''.

[JimmyPlopper]

Iverson was 5'11 at most

[Kingdibs19]

Why do we need 3 threads on this? Can’t wait until I don’t see anymore of these on the first page

[JN61]

IMO it would be Nate Arcibald, Zeke, Iverson and CP3. Guys like that come around once in a generation.

Cp3 is 183, Thomas 185. Both are 6 feet or over.

Iverson is 178-180 which is 5'11 or under. He lied of his height in NBA and was often even listed 6'1

[ellobo]

IMO it would be Nate Arcibald, Zeke, Iverson and CP3. Guys like that come around once in a generation.

Cp3 is 183, Thomas 185. Both are 6 feet or over.

Iverson is 178-180 which is 5'11 or under. He lied of his height in NBA and was often even listed 6'1

Do you have a booth at the carnival where you have people step on a scale and then guess their height?

Edit: Oh, you mean cm. But do you have an independent and reliable source for those heights in cm? Those are just the metric equivalents of the listed heights for CP3 and Isiah Thomas. How is this different than just asserting that these players are 6ft or taller?

[Hoop Heavy]

If you're counting an official height of 6-1 as qualifying for 6ft and under, Bob Cousy should be considered.

And Tim Hardaway, listed at 6-0, should be considered for the 5-11 poll. He's definitely better than the likes of Michael Adams, Damon Stoudamire, and Spud Webb, although they're listed as 5-10 or shorter.

Good Names just keep coming. Without looking I agree that both Hardaway and Cousy should be mentioned. Can't find a KJ Pretty and don't remember him in the league in the 90's. I'm done restarting though.

[ellobo]

If you're counting an official height of 6-1 as qualifying for 6ft and under, Bob Cousy should be considered.

And Tim Hardaway, listed at 6-0, should be considered for the 5-11 poll. He's definitely better than the likes of Michael Adams, Damon Stoudamire, and Spud Webb, although they're listed as 5-10 or shorter.

Good Names just keep coming. Without looking I agree that both Hardaway and Cousy should be mentioned. Can't find a KJ Pretty and don't remember him in the league in the 90's. I'm done restarting though.

KJ Pretty?

KJ is Kevin Johnson. You know, 3x all-star, 4x all-NBA 2nd team, 1x all-NBA 3rd team. 6th all-time in career assists per game.

[Hoop Heavy]

If you're counting an official height of 6-1 as qualifying for 6ft and under, Bob Cousy should be considered.

And Tim Hardaway, listed at 6-0, should be considered for the 5-11 poll. He's definitely better than the likes of Michael Adams, Damon Stoudamire, and Spud Webb, although they're listed as 5-10 or shorter.

Good Names just keep coming. Without looking I agree that both Hardaway and Cousy should be mentioned. Can't find a KJ Pretty and don't remember him in the league in the 90's. I'm done restarting though.

KJ Pretty?

KJ is Kevin Johnson. You know, 3x all-star, 4x all-NBA 2nd team, 1x all-NBA 3rd team. 6th all-time in career assists per game.

Cool, lol. Yeah, Johnson and Cousy can make the final poll of "6 ft and under". Tim Hardaway is the most screwed over given his height, he should be part of this poll.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

I dunno. Who's the world's tallest midget?

[Hoop Heavy]

Why do we need 3 threads on this? Can’t wait until I don’t see anymore of these on the first page

So, I get that this process has been organic and sloppy. I don't have a height-based list and I keep missing really obvious names. So do others, who have been engaging. Clearly, we can expect more worthwhile names still to surface.

We have the "shoes on" and "shoes off" stuff still going on alongside the ... "Hey, I lied about how tall I was!" evidence. Still, beyond the reality that we have a somewhat arbitrary cut off point (me and only ten choices allowed in the poll), the Take 2 poll is clearly a better representation of the actual unbiased opinion of this forum.

Then too, it is truly flawed. Any conversation about "short" greats that could include Stockton and Cousy and doesn't is unfair. They make take lots of votes and change the mix. There's also the newer and older IT issue that came up.

Anyway, hopefully most people are having fun. I'm new at this ... and if their are resources that could improve our lists pre-polling, then that would be a step forward.

[BigSleep333]

AI is the answer.

close the topic

[DaPessimist]

Mark Price is the best player on that list IMO.

[Hoop Heavy]

I voted "Other". Nat Holman comes to mind.

I'll acknowledge it's tongue and cheek to a degree (if CP3 is actually under 6 feet, I think he's better and he's not the only one), but if you're looking at this as "Who is the best volume shooter under 6 feet?" you're essentially asking "Among those too short to design a great offense around as alpha mega scorer, who held you back the least if you let him play the role he shouldn't play."

Holman has the advantage of having the best total career achievement of anyone in the first half of the 20th century, being ultra smart, having his game focused on working with others as a cohesive whole rather than chucking, and being 5'11".

It's not just about numbers for me, results are probably more tipping the balance. If we look at the Take 2 poll, there are four names there in the basic conversation. I'd probably take Thomas for his team success. Then on a different level, while I don't know, I'm guessing Isiah wasn't the "leader" that either Paul or Lowry are. ... and for many, AI was a negative in that arena - not practicing etc. Maybe he needs a pass when plays 48 minutes during the game and is the MVP - and needs to look after his body.

Still, how much is it worth that you can get ALL your teammates to play harder and draw together more? Sounds like Holman had that aspect too. I concur a GOAT should show a good to elite level

One more major factor for me is longevity and sustained excellence if we are talking GOAT. If you add Stockton and Cousy to those four names ... I have difficulty not seeing them.

[Clyde Frazier]

This is clearly Barea and then everyone else. What are we doing here?

[JJ_PR]

Isiah Thomas (Detroit) has this by a large margin.

[anatomicbomb]

Tomorrow I'm going to start a "GOAT of 5'4" and under" thread.

That'll be a short one