NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[76ciology]

And thats ok. You need to question everything you know, be open for discussion with everything and every possibility.

Ok, but it has to be done earnestly, and it isn't. That's the problem. In this particular case, as soon as one excuse expired, a new one popped up.

"I'm scared of mRNA's long term effects" --> there are none, it decays rapidly

"The vaccine isn't FDA approved" ---> then it was, and the same people still wouldn't get it

"Natural immunity is better!" ---> it can be. It also can be worse. Turns out natural immunity fluctuates greatly and the vaccine is relatively stable.

Take a look in this thread. Earlier in here you had a guy who insisted that the flu was worse for kids than COVID. He presented a study of 200 kids as proof, and the margins were razor thin. I presented the same study in the scope of 2.4 million cases that proved COVID is much worse for kids than the flu. And then I asked again - is the flu worse than COVID? He had the same answer.

Immediately after that someone went on about how Florida is doing well now, and that their spike doesnt matter because its happening to all states. Showed that it wasn't. Then he got mad about the weather and ignored all the stuff he said earlier.

And you know why I think your statement above is BS? Because there's never anyone who's on the antivaxx, or hesitation, or anything but pro-vaxx side calling out this garbage. Because its support for them, and they'll take whatever they can get. Because its not about the truth, its not about what's good for people, its about them trying to spin crap so their original opinion, which they have been very vocal about, appears right.

Because I guarantee you this: if people truly were open for a discussion, for education.. they'd be getting the shot. Because its safe, effective, and free.

I also guarantee you this. If they’d be open for discussions and education, they’ll see that everything has risk and be able to decide to whether to get the shot or not relative to their risk.

Personally, i took the vax not for health reasons unlike my parents but for mobility. Similar to why Wiggins took his. Because without mobility (not being able to work), my risk of dying increases. But that situation may change if i need to take around 40 booster shots in the next 20 years whereas that could pose a bigger risk than being able to work which i hope i’d have savings by then

[FNQ]

I also guarantee you this. If they’d be open for discussions and education, they’ll see that everything has risk and be able to decide to whether to get the shot or not relative to their risk.

Like what kind of risk?

Also to michael's point earlier, what are the contrary data points of vaccines you were talking about?

Speaking in generalities is kinda pointless, be as specific as you can. Just want to understand where your info is coming from and if its current, because there's a lot of old data floating out there being used to justify positions

[ThatClockWork]

I say again on the Wiggins conversation:

"I got vaccinated so why can't he?" - its not about you

"Money is more important than religion" - no, this isn't the message, stop deflecting.

"He's a coward, loser, etc." - that is your personal viewpoint of anyone who has a different opinion than yours? Time to grow up

The way many people on both sides of this issue are choosing to react to those who do not share their viewpoint says a lot about how far we've fallen as a society.

I wouldn't be doing business with these people either.

Strange how you're trying to make a "both sides" argument but only highlight things people who are in favor of the vaccine have said. Besides that this type of enlightened centrism isn't really suited for a global pandemic, sometimes you're allowed to pick a side. This isn't about a choice that only affects yourself like picking out what shoes to wear, not getting the vaccine increases the risk of spreading covid to others and without the vaccine you have a much higher chance of needing serious medical help, which takes away from less selfish people who badly need that scarce medical attention instead.

If Wiggins gave any sort of understandable reason for not wanting the vaccine he wouldn't be seen as uneducated and if he didn't try to get a religious exemption before choosing the money anyway he wouldn't be getting called out for that.

You *are* allowed to pick a side. I believe the point of my post was lost in your response. Its not a matter of what serves the greater good. I am not making a 'both sides' argument. It's a matter of *how* you choose to react to the counter argument that is the issue that says so much more about your character and this trait is ever present in a lot of issues where people feel the counter side to the argument is unsubstantiated.

These people are the ones that I don't generally want speaking for anybody because of how they are choosing to react.

[michaelm]

I say again on the Wiggins conversation:

"I got vaccinated so why can't he?" - its not about you

"Money is more important than religion" - no, this isn't the message, stop deflecting.

"He's a coward, loser, etc." - that is your personal viewpoint of anyone who has a different opinion than yours? Time to grow up

The way many people on both sides of this issue are choosing to react to those who do not share their viewpoint says a lot about how far we've fallen as a society.

I wouldn't be doing business with these people either.

I am a GSW fan and was in accord with FNQ’s view on the GSW forum. I am fine with Wiggins, he reportedly has a strong personal philosophy being into all things natural and is a strict vegan predating the pandemic, and would have preferred not to be vaccinated; I don’t think his opposition to vaccination is soundly based myself, but I don’t think it is arbitrary or just to be contrary. He said if forced he would be vaccinated, and if he meant by that he would be vaccinated if it was necessary for his profession I think that is reasonable and not a sell out, and again something with which I am fine. He apparently considers his privacy to have been breached either by someone in the GSW organisation or perhaps the NBA by all this including his request for an exemption being in the public domain, a view with which I also have sympathy, but he did put it in the public domain himself to an extent imo with his initial entirely voluntarily expressed no vaccination unless forced statement.

The larger problem as I see it as a GSW fan going forward, again following FNQ, is that a guy who was something of a redemption story at GSW has now been subject to vilification by elements of a second fanbase, all premature even if ever likely to be justifiable which it probably wasn’t.
(EDIT Hadn’t seen the other posts of yours on this thread prior to the one in which you mentioned me FNQ, which perhaps demonstrates I am in unprompted agreement with you. I do know data is plural as well, was attempting to avoid pedantry, which I usually don’t manage to do).

[Cartuse]

This even being a discussion is so weird to me. Like it doesn't even seem to be about the vaccines but just people acting up every time they are told what to do. Doing "research" just amounts to watching conspiracy nuts on youtube and sharing memes with your aunt on facebook. How did we even allow these people to take a global pandemic hostage because listening to the government is the same as selling your soul to them?

Why now? Why do you think people are "acting up every time they're told what to do" (which is not true, btw, since there has been widespread compliance of all covid rules during 2020, no matter how destructive they were).

The US has an absolutely senile poor old man whose face is being used as a façade for presidency while unknown and possibly unelected people making decisions in his name. There's also a very dishonest man in charge of health whose statements and recommendations have changed with the wind since day one.

If this is not enough for someone to pause and consider why some people might be skeptic (and rightfully so, in my opinion), because of what your science priests tell you, then I don't think you're being open at all. And please spare me The Holy Science. That science has been changing since day 1 lol, so don't act like everything is gospel.

Half my family is in especialized medical fields and let me tell you, it's incredibly likely none of us here have the capacity to properly assess what any of the information coming out REALLY implies, let alone validate how the data was collected. All we can do is use those studies to validate our pre-conceived notions and hopes (just like "antivaxxers" are accused of doing). So please stop pretending that you can see to the bottom of this. You can't, and probably few people, if anyone at all, can. All you're doing is putting your faith in whoever has the biggest holiness among the "scientific community", and all it takes is a few numbers here and there that make you feel qualified and smart enough to feel like you're fully informed about what's going on.

Just to give an example to illustrate my point: in my home country hospitals were given a certain amount of subsidy money per covid case declared during 2020, under the justification of emergency handling. This obviously incites an over reporting of covid cases especially in hospitals that were struggling financially due to all the other medical procedures being put on halt for a year. I know this for a fact, since I was told by medical staff themselves.
It's not that hospitals are in on a massive conspiracy. They don't have to be, they're just put in a position in which they're pretty much forced to alter the perception of reality. And the worst part is that they might be doing it for the right reasons, like being able to remain functional and not leave a bunch of people out on the street.

Yet we have taken (and continue to take) those numbers as absolute gospel and at this point anyone even suggesting to question them is deemed a complete heretic and a danger to society. We're now at a point in which we can no longer question a very questionable fact, and this is the way this whole narrative has been built.

This is not a science debate, none of us are equipped to properly debate this, and all we can do is appeal to authority in a debate that has become completely tainted by politics. Of course if you're a believer in that might is right, then you won't see a problem with this and just follow whoever has the most coercive power.

No unvaccinated person is telling anyone what to do. All they're asking is to be left alone.

In the middle of a very shady and contradictory political scenario, a narrative has been built and sold NON STOP that turns their inaction into a danger to society and themselves into second class citizens. Do you think that helps convince them?

If you feel in your heart that people who don't want to take a vaccine should be erradicated from society, take a step back and think about that thought for a second. You're being fed HATRED and you're eating it up.

Stop it before it's too late

[michaelm]

This even being a discussion is so weird to me. Like it doesn't even seem to be about the vaccines but just people acting up every time they are told what to do. Doing "research" just amounts to watching conspiracy nuts on youtube and sharing memes with your aunt on facebook. How did we even allow these people to take a global pandemic hostage because listening to the government is the same as selling your soul to them?

Why now? Why do you think people are "acting up every time they're told what to do" (which is not true, btw, since there has been widespread compliance of all covid rules during 2020, no matter how destructive they were).

The US has an absolutely senile poor old man whose face is being used as a façade for presidency while unknown and possibly unelected people making decisions in his name. There's also a very dishonest man in charge of health whose statements and recommendations have changed with the wind since day one.

If this is not enough for someone to pause and consider why some people might be skeptic (and rightfully so, in my opinion), because of what your science priests tell you, then I don't think you're being open at all. And please spare me The Holy Science. That science has been changing since day 1 lol, so don't act like everything is gospel.

Half my family is in especialized medical fields and let me tell you, it's incredibly likely none of us here have the capacity to properly assess what any of the information coming out REALLY implies, let alone validate how the data was collected. All we can do is use those studies to validate our pre-conceived notions and hopes (just like "antivaxxers" are accused of doing). So please stop pretending that you can see to the bottom of this. You can't, and probably few people, if anyone at all, can. All you're doing is putting your faith in whoever has the biggest holiness among the "scientific community", and all it takes is a few numbers here and there that make you feel qualified and smart enough to feel like you're fully informed about what's going on.

Just to give an example to illustrate my point: in my home country hospitals were given a certain amount of subsidy money per covid case declared during 2020, under the justification of emergency handling. This obviously incites an over reporting of covid cases especially in hospitals that were struggling financially due to all the other medical procedures being put on halt for a year. I know this for a fact, since I was told by medical staff themselves.
It's not that hospitals are in on a massive conspiracy. They don't have to be, they're just put in a position in which they're pretty much forced to alter the perception of reality. And the worst part is that they might be doing it for the right reasons, like being able to remain functional and not leave a bunch of people out on the street.

Yet we have taken (and continue to take) those numbers as absolute gospel and at this point anyone even suggesting to question them is deemed a complete heretic and a danger to society. We're now at a point in which we can no longer question a very questionable fact, and this is the way this whole narrative has been built.

This is not a science debate, none of us are equipped to properly debate this, and all we can do is appeal to authority in a debate that has become completely tainted by politics. Of course if you're a believer in that might is right, then you won't see a problem with this and just follow whoever has the most coercive power.

No unvaccinated person is telling anyone what to do. All they're asking is to be left alone.

In the middle of a very shady and contradictory political scenario, a narrative has been built and sold NON STOP that turns their inaction into a danger to society and themselves into second class citizens. Do you think that helps convince them?

If you feel in your heart that people who don't want to take a vaccine should be erradicated from society, take a step back and think about that thought for a second. You're being fed HATRED and you're eating it up.

Stop it before it's too late

No one should wish harm on people for being against vaccination of course. I also agree Fauci is a shady character, for reasons other than yours.

You don’t offer anything else apart from that as to why vaccination is a bad idea other than conspiracy theories. This is a worldwide pandemic with worldwide scientific involvement. I don’t think Joe Biden or Fauci can control everything in regard to the pandemic worldwide, certainly not in China or Russia where vaccines have also been produced, and 3 of the vaccines were at least partly funded by Donald Trump’s administration in response to the pandemic.

[Cartuse]

You don’t offer anything else apart from that as to why vaccination is a bad idea other than conspiracy theories. This is a worldwide pandemic with worldwide scientific involvement.

Thank you for your response, Michael.

I'm not lobbying for or against vaccines here. This goes way beyond that. I'm saying that, given the circumstances, people are entitled to doubt what they're being told without having to be labelled as lunatics or "conspiracy theorists". And I provided reasons for that.

I mentioned the over reporting of covid cases in my home country as an example of how distorted data makes it to the final cut. Maybe you dont' see this as a problem, but I and other people do, especially when it becomes unquestionable gospel and it becomes buried in time without ever being properly addressed and explained by those in power. This is not something that you can expect to inspire confidence, but quite the opposite. And when on top of that the government decides to come after the skeptics' heads by turning the populace against them, then you have done a great job in radicalizing that minority in their belief, which I believe is the whole point of this circus that's going on: keep people busy fighting each other and looking sideways while upstairs papers are reshuffled. But THAT is just my conspiracy theory.

The "bad idea" is not about a vaccine, it's about radicalizing yourselves and others. Radicalization comes in different shapes and forms, but it always requires the abandonment of normal ethic standards for whatever extraordinary reason. Always.

Every radical movement in history has had its proponents convinced that they had the absolute truth. And they had plenty of things that told them they were. But what they had was fear and anger, which turned into hatred as a cause. I'm just pointing out the similarities as to invite people to think about where that frustration and hatred is coming from. That's all.

[old skool]

You can’t just blindly follow institutions. Government, science and medical industry have not been perfect, they have been wrong for a lot of things.

For instance, they told us this lockdown will just be a couple of weeks, but it wasnt. Or the flip flopping stance on masks. Or how they sold us that vax would end the pandemic. Didnt they saw that its impossible to vax every person on earth a such a limited amount of resource, with risk vs reward not making sense for majority of the population and time that this caused this recent mutation and surge?

I think you need to look at both sides to get near accuracy and also be able to assess the risk based on your condition.

Maybe trusted institutions were right, but things do change.

When your house is on fire, do you wait for the MSM news or some government bulletin to tell you to get out of your house? You have to think for yourself, based on all the available data.

There is no "they". There are tens of thousands of "them".

There is no "both sides". There are thousands of theories. Thousands of beacons of hope. Thousands of scientists around the world with extensive knowledge of public health, diseases, medicine, et al. They independently research possible solutions to health problems and publish their findings to be challenged and scrutinized by the rest of the world. There is no blind acceptance of results. Research is replicated to verify results. Methods and findings are ripped apart to find flaws and inconsistencies. Studies of failed and successful techniques are tweaked to see if a better way can be discovered.

Science is not infallible. There are many areas where there is no broad scientific consensus. This is not one of them.

Thousands of independent researchers and public health experts have concluded that masks, vaccines, distancing and testing is the best way for mankind to combat the coronavirus. Along the way they have dismissed thousands of ideas that they have tested and scrutinized. Ideas that have come from all corners of the world and all corners of mankind.

Most of us are not experts. We have not devoted a lifetime to public health, diseases and medicine. We can't explain the difference between standard deviation and anthracnose or much anything else when it comes to complicated science. We have to make up our own minds. We can listen to experts. Or we can listen to non-experts.

[michaelm]

[gfycat][/gfycat]

You don’t offer anything else apart from that as to why vaccination is a bad idea other than conspiracy theories. This is a worldwide pandemic with worldwide scientific involvement.

Thank you for your response, Michael.

I'm not lobbying for or against vaccines here. This goes way beyond that. I'm saying that, given the circumstances, people are entitled to doubt what they're being told without having to be labelled as lunatics or "conspiracy theorists". And I provided reasons for that.

I mentioned the over reporting of covid cases in my home country as an example of how distorted data makes it to the final cut. Maybe you dont' see this as a problem, but I and other people do, especially when it becomes unquestionable gospel and it becomes buried in time without ever being properly addressed and explained by those in power. This is not something that you can expect to inspire confidence, but quite the opposite. And when on top of that the government decides to come after the skeptics' heads by turning the populace against them, then you have done a great job in radicalizing that minority in their belief, which I believe is the whole point of this circus that's going on: keep people busy fighting each other and looking sideways while upstairs papers are reshuffled. But THAT is just my conspiracy theory.

The "bad idea" is not about a vaccine, it's about radicalizing yourselves and others. Radicalization comes in different shapes and forms, but it always requires the abandonment of normal ethic standards for whatever extraordinary reason. Always.

Every radical movement in history has had its proponents convinced that they had the absolute truth. And they had plenty of things that told them they were. But what they had was fear and anger, which turned into hatred as a cause. I'm just pointing out the similarities as to invite people to think about where that frustration and hatred is coming from. That's all.

My perspective is a public health perspective, not a political perspective, in regard to this issue anyway.

If vaccines are the solution, or a significant part of the solution, to the worldwide pandemic, a view which much of the world seems to hold completely independently of anything to do with Joe Biden or Fauci, then what looks like to me at least as an outsider to be politically and/or ideologically based rather than rationally based opposition to vaccination in the USA may stop the world solving the problem of the pandemic. Even in Australia where we look like getting 90% vaccination of the population aged over 16 mainly voluntarily those whom you may have seen marching in the streets (generally in fairly small numbers) seem mainly to be politically motivated/devotees of US sites pushing conspiracy theories rather than conscientious objectors based on long term anti-vaccination beliefs/philosophies or any coherent rational basis I have ever heard expressed by them.

Enough already, I have probably put my own position more than sufficiently on this thread. I am fine with Covid 19 fizzling out/ becoming a low grade endemic pathogen without vaccination as well, just not sure how anyone can be confident this will occur.

[Pointgod]

It’s going to suck for unvaccinated players that miss time because of contact tracing or violating covid protocols. This is all posturing, guys like Beal and Isaac will eventually get vaccinated. The only true believer seems to be Michael Porter Jr.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264274/NBA-NBPA-Agree-To-Salary-Reduction-For-Games-Missed-Due-To-Vaccination-Status

[Cartuse]

My perspective is a public health perspective, not a political perspective, in regard to this issue anyway.

If vaccines are the solution, or a significant part of the solution, to the worldwide pandemic, a view which much of the world seems to hold completely independent of anything to do with Joe Biden or Fauci, then what looks like to me at least as an outsider to be politically and/or ideologically based rather than rationally based opposition to vaccination in the USA may stop the world solving the problem of the pandemic.

Choosing to believe something because the sanctioned majority does is not rational. It may or may not be wise, but it definitely has nothing to do with rationality, it's just as ideological and subjective as any other stance. I'm not saying one can go through life without putting faith in what other people say. I do as well, it's a necessity at times. All I'm saying is that following the majority shouldn't be confused for a second with "rationality". History is littered with examples as to why.

You say irrational opposition to vaccination in the USA may stop the world solving the problem of the pandemic. That's also not a rational claim nor remotely falsifiable. That's speculative dogma and nothing concrete. This is concrete: if I'm not allowed to work I will either starve or become a social outcast.

Even in Australia where we look like getting 90% vaccination of the population aged over 16 mainly voluntarily those whom you may have seen matching in the streets seem mainly to be politically motivated/devotees of US sites pushing conspiracy theories rather than conscientious ofbjectors based on previous anti vaccination beliefs/philosophies or any rational basis inhavevever heard expressed by them.

For someone who seems to be so opposed to "conspiracy theories" you seem to indulge in quite a few yourself. What's the political motivation of those conspiracy theorists? What's their goal? Who's organizing, pushing and financing all that movement? Who's pulling the strings of all those useful idiots? Is it Trump? Does he and his cronies have a massive underground invisible media empire? What are you basing those claims upon other than your opinion and your personal interpretation of what you see?

It seems there's no difference between what you're doing and what other "conspiracy theorists" do, I'm sorry.

The NBA is overwhelmingly vaccinated and pro vaccine and pro whatever the government says, yet here we are making a big deal out of a handful of 20 something year old athletes, some of them with natural immunity, choosing not to be vaccinated as if they represented an immense risk to society. What's going on here?

Edit:

Enough already, I have probably put my own position more than sufficiently on this thread. I am fine with Covid 19 fizzling out/ becoming a low grade endemic pathogen without vaccination as well, just not sure how anyone can be confident this will occur.

Fair enough, I agree.

[jackman]

We're all going to have egg on our face after mocking players for doing their own research when we see them come out with a double blind reviewed research paper:

Irving, K.A., Isaac, J. J., & Wiggins, A.C. (2022). The negative effects of COVID-19 vaccinations on subjects' sense of independence and autonomy. New England Journal of Medicine. 4(3), 217-328. https://doi.org/10.1186/1477-7827-5-15

This is the NEJM. It has come to our attention that there was a conflict of interest in one of the authors. Namely Wiggins, A.C. The original research paper is retracted and an amendment has been made.

Irving, K.A., & Isaac, J. J. (2022). The negative effects of COVID-19 vaccinations on subjects' sense of independence and autonomy. New England Journal of Medicine. 4(3), 217-328. https://doi.org/10.1186/1477-7827-5-15

[michaelm]

My perspective is a public health perspective, not a political perspective, in regard to this issue anyway.

If vaccines are the solution, or a significant part of the solution, to the worldwide pandemic, a view which much of the world seems to hold completely independent of anything to do with Joe Biden or Fauci, then what looks like to me at least as an outsider to be politically and/or ideologically based rather than rationally based opposition to vaccination in the USA may stop the world solving the problem of the pandemic.

Choosing to believe something because the sanctioned majority does is not rational. It may or may not be wise, but it definitely has nothing to do with rationality, it's just as ideological and subjective as any other stance. I'm not saying one can go through life without putting faith in what other people say. I do as well, it's a necessity at times. All I'm saying is that following the majority shouldn't be confused for a second with "rationality". History is littered with examples as to why.

You say irrational opposition to vaccination in the USA may stop the world solving the problem of the pandemic. That's also not a rational claim nor remotely falsifiable. That's speculative dogma and nothing concrete. This is concrete: if I'm not allowed to work I will either starve or become a social outcast.

Even in Australia where we look like getting 90% vaccination of the population aged over 16 mainly voluntarily those whom you may have seen matching in the streets seem mainly to be politically motivated/devotees of US sites pushing conspiracy theories rather than conscientious ofbjectors based on previous anti vaccination beliefs/philosophies or any rational basis inhavevever heard expressed by them.

For someone who seems to be so opposed to "conspiracy theories" you seem to indulge in quite a few yourself. What's the political motivation of those conspiracy theorists? What's their goal? Who's organizing, pushing and financing all that movement? Who's pulling the strings of all those useful idiots? Is it Trump? Does he and his cronies have a massive underground invisible media empire? What are you basing those claims upon other than your opinion and your personal interpretation of what you see?

It seems there's no difference between what you're doing and what other "conspiracy theorists" do, I'm sorry.

The NBA is overwhelmingly vaccinated and pro vaccine and pro whatever the government says, yet here we are making a big deal out of a handful of 20 something year old athletes, some of them with natural immunity, choosing not to be vaccinated as if they represented an immense risk to society. What's going on here?

Edit:

Enough already, I have probably put my own position more than sufficiently on this thread. I am fine with Covid 19 fizzling out/ becoming a low grade endemic pathogen without vaccination as well, just not sure how anyone can be confident this will occur.

Fair enough, I agree.

I am a doctor trained as an internist and actually did do my own research, fairly exhaustively.

I relied more on media reports into the makeup of the participants in the marches, as well as personal acquaintance with some who participated. Again I read all reports I could find, and didn’t just look at sources with which I am likely to agree. Rupert Murdoch was originally Australian btw, started with an Adelaide newspaper he inherited from his father and still has a large media footprint here. As I said we are looking like 90% vaccination mainly voluntarily, and have a high uptake of vaccination historically in general, fair evidence anti-vaccination sentiment is a minority thing here in general I would have thought.

I actually have a scientific as well as a professional interest in the virus, and found it it impossible to follow what was going on in America by watching Fox News or CNN last year, both of which you can get on cable here, neither seemed interested in a solution to the pandemic, being obsessed with praising or blaming Donald Trump respectively.

[Ckay]

Read on Twitter

[FNQ]

I am a doctor trained as an internist and actually did do my own research, fairly exhaustively.

I relied more on media reports into the makeup of the participant in the marches, and personal acquaintance with some who participated. Again read all reports I could find, and don’t just look at sources with which I am likely to agree. Rupert Murdoch was originally Australian btw, started with an Adelaide newspaper he inherited from his father and still has a large media footprint here. As I said we are looking like 90% vaccination mainly voluntarily as I said, and have a high uptake of vaccination historically in general, fair evidence anti vaccination sentiment is a minority thing here in general I would have thought.

I actually have a scientific as well as a professional interest in the virus, and found it it impossible to follow what was goi g on in America by watching Fox News or CNN last year, both of which you can get on cable here, neither seemed interest in a solution to the pandemic, being obsessed with praising or blaming Donald Trump respectively.

When the guy confidently said that no one here would know how to interpret medical data, I hope you felt me virtually side-eyeing you and having a laugh

[FNQ]

It’s going to suck for unvaccinated players that miss time because of contact tracing or violating covid protocols. This is all posturing, guys like Beal and Isaac will eventually get vaccinated. The only true believer seems to be Michael Porter Jr.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264274/NBA-NBPA-Agree-To-Salary-Reduction-For-Games-Missed-Due-To-Vaccination-Status

Whats weird to me is that this seems to be a heavier fine than what we originally thought.. maybe the union heavily pro-vaxx as well?

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

Surprised Fox News didn’t title this freedom loving hero Lazar Hayward arrested for exercising his freedom

[Pointgod]

It’s going to suck for unvaccinated players that miss time because of contact tracing or violating covid protocols. This is all posturing, guys like Beal and Isaac will eventually get vaccinated. The only true believer seems to be Michael Porter Jr.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264274/NBA-NBPA-Agree-To-Salary-Reduction-For-Games-Missed-Due-To-Vaccination-Status

Whats weird to me is that this seems to be a heavier fine than what we originally thought.. maybe the union heavily pro-vaxx as well?

I think this is the union signalling that they’re not going to fight this and most likely would never win in a court battle. I laughed at the wannabe legal experts on here that were like “hmmm the players have a case”.

[FNQ]

Read on Twitter

Surprised Fox News didn’t title this freedom loving hero Lazar Hayward arrested for exercising his freedom

I think even Fox has a limit. This wasn't falsifying a vaccine passport, this was falsifying a test so he wouldnt have to stay in quarantine for a week. Not to condone falsifying a vaccine passport in any way, but what Lazar did was way more dangerous and stupid, and even Fox News can't condone that

[zimpy27]

We have multiple vaccines, medications that help serious infection, people are producing antibodies and sustained immunity generally, this virus doesn't appear (at this stage) to mutate as rapidly as the flu. Not all of these things were certainties. I personally was scared by a lot of these things and the early literature was unclear.

Just one note to add - the flu didn't mutate all that rapidly to begin with either. The epidemiology, pathophysiology, and genome / structure of it indicate that it has evolved over its lifespan to be more potent at a time (flu season) where it can be passed along faster. It's mostly stagnant now, as it changes just enough to be viable but not enough to be extremely dangerous, and the hope is COVID eventually goes down that path as well. But it makes the variants very important, as we can not only map out how COVID might mutate in the future, but we might be able to see if there's a pattern in virus mutations that could help us in the future. But odds are we're looking at studies that would last our entire lifetimes before we got tangible results.

But its cool that we're so scientifically advanced at this stage compared to the onset of other viruses, that we could learn things that would be otherwise unknowable

This is true though I'm more bullish on the research future in this space. There were already some decent advancements in the field of computational biology as it pertains to modelling the impact of mutation on protein structure and function. I'm predicting a proportional increase in future governmental research funding will happen globally because of this pandemic with particular focus on these areas. At least I'm hopeful.