What do we give to get Ben Simmons?

[MagicFan101]

Isaac hype continues based on nothing.

Come on now. This is just as ridiculous of a statement as the “50/40/90” comment.

[AaronB]

Isaac hype continues based on nothing. Feels like Gordon hype, but Gordon at least was able to play basketball on a regular basis.

Isaac hype feels like Stanley Roberts hype to me. "The guy could have been great except ..."

I agree, Isaac could be great, might (very low probability) great except ...

Isaac lacks many abilities to be great, however, the most important ability that he lacks is "availability".

[pepe1991]

Isaac hype continues based on nothing. Feels like Gordon hype, but Gordon at least was able to play basketball on regular bases.

Isaac was arguably the most impactful defender in the league before his injury during the 2019 season.

It's easy to ignore that fact and focus on shooting percentages, but it's what separates him from all those guys you mentioned. Including AG. His hype isn't based on nothing, && even you were admitting defeat after all the bashing you did before he got injured again.

That's all hindsight though. I have no idea what he will look like once he comes back. If the major injuries he's suffered restrict his mobility and ability to guard 1-5, his value will take a major hit. There's no question though that his trajectory pre-injury was an above-average starting forward with DPOY ability.

AG was always pure potential and what if on both sides of the ball. Isaac is offensively but has already proven his worth on the other end.

Matisse Thybulle is probably best all around nba defender and will never be mistaken by elite player.
Isaac was great defender mostly in postion to be rim protector and hidden in offense from any serious responsibility.

Gordon was at least trying to justfy hype and most of the time was failing misserably, but Isaac is guy who's fine by beaing Robin to Dwayne Bacon... (College).

Good defender, overrated all around. Basically our version of Chris Beucher. Blocks shots, can make open shots, average rebounder.

[Xatticus]

It doesn't really work that way, or at least the data doesn't suggest that it does. The players for whom the offense is built around get their choice of shots, while everyone else is forced to work around them. Look at Bosh's numbers. You would've expected a spike in efficiency for him when he joined Miami, but it didn't happen.

That isn't exactly what I was saying though.

Going from high usage to low usage, like your Bosh example, provides its own set of challenges that are unique to that situation.

IMO I think transitioning from a player who is forced to work around someone better for shots, and in Isaac's case he's been this type of player for four years now, to a player who gets his choice of shots is a difficult development from an efficiency standpoint.

I would imagine as Isaac's usage goes up, since he's never been anything but a low usage player, his efficiency won't follow suit. At least not right away.

Look at a guy like Jerami Grant. He was a roughly 16% USG 59 TS% guy the last three years. He signs a deal with Detroit and more or less gets free reign (28.5% USG) and his efficiency was the worst it had been in five years.

It's effectively the same thing though. The assumption here is that Grant's efficiency plummeted because his usage skyrocketed, but that ignores the fact that he went from one of the best offensive teams in the league to one of the worst. I'm not arguing that efficiency is independent from any other variables, just that it is independent from usage.

The logic is pretty straightforward: if you take fewer shots, then the first shots you remove from your arsenal are the bad ones. It just doesn't work that way though. It's a topic that has been studied and the inverse relationship between efficiency and usage isn't there. This is why I'm so vehemently opposed to handing out massive contracts to **** players simply because they score a lot of points. An offense can suck with or without a 25 ppg scorer, so why bother paying one if your offense is going to suck regardless?

I'm not arguing that Isaac is in for a spike in his efficiency this year. I'm simply pushing back against the idea that his efficiency might drop because his usage might increase.

As for the topic as a whole, I don't know why people are eager to move Isaac at this point in time. Injured players don't have value, so now isn't the time to move him regardless, but if Isaac gets healthy, his value will soar. Isaac is perhaps the best in the world at what he is good at and what he is good at has a lot of value. Keep in mind that Ayton didn't turn into a max-contract talent until he acquitted himself at the defensive end in the playoffs. John Collins didn't get paid until he did the same. Bigs that get played off the floor at the defensive end have no value. Bigs that can't be exploited by switches are immensely valuable. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if most teams preferred a healthy Isaac over a healthy Simmons due to the rim protection. If you already have your offensive engine, then your focus turns to finding a defensive anchor.

I'd obviously prefer to have Simmons at this point, but that is really entirely about availability. One has played 9300 minutes while the other has played 3500 minutes.

[MagicFan101]

Isaac hype continues based on nothing. Feels like Gordon hype, but Gordon at least was able to play basketball on regular bases.

Isaac was arguably the most impactful defender in the league before his injury during the 2019 season.

It's easy to ignore that fact and focus on shooting percentages, but it's what separates him from all those guys you mentioned. Including AG. His hype isn't based on nothing, && even you were admitting defeat after all the bashing you did before he got injured again.

That's all hindsight though. I have no idea what he will look like once he comes back. If the major injuries he's suffered restrict his mobility and ability to guard 1-5, his value will take a major hit. There's no question though that his trajectory pre-injury was an above-average starting forward with DPOY ability.

AG was always pure potential and what if on both sides of the ball. Isaac is offensively but has already proven his worth on the other end.

Matisse Thybulle is probably best all around nba defender and will never be mistaken by elite player.
Isaac was great defender mostly in postion to be rim protector and hidden in offense from any serious responsibility.

Gordon was at least trying to justfy hype and most of the time was failing misserably, but Isaac is guy who's fine by beaing Robin to Dwayne Bacon... (College).

Good defender, overrated all around. Basically our version of Chris Beucher. Blocks shots, can make open shots, average rebounder.