If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade)

[MrDollarBills]

Myocarditis is an inflammatory condition of the heart and can occur when a virus causes a sudden demand on the immune system. Unvaccinated people are the most at risk. Aldridge does not have an organic heart problem (heart muscle, valves, etc), he has an electrical conduction feedback loop disorder which he most likely elected for eblation treatment to correct (he probably has avoided this for years choosing medication to control). I have seen young patients succumb to virus induced myocarditis and become vegetables living in long term care facilities as a result. Kyrie himself would be most at risk although Aldridge would still be a higher risk than the rest of the players. Having him unvaccinated is a risk to everyone and it's sad he is trying to set an example that is opposite what is best for society regardless of race.

Thanks for the breakdown and pointing out the distinction between LMA's condition.

Also, that's absolutely terrifying. Question: Is this the reason why COVID patients who are deathly ill end up having to go on ECMO machines or nah?

[MrDollarBills]

Patty Mills is a hell of a player. Kyrie won't be missed much.

Yeah but the idea was to have Patty run SG next to Harden as he runs the 2nd unit, which would be a back breaking unit to defend for most benches in the league. Very disappointing if this doesn't play out the right way.

Kyrie last season: 27 ppg, 50/40/90

Mills best season, per36 to inflate volume scoring: 18 ppg on 43/38/86

so like, even if you give mills more volume/minutes and dont assume his averages go down with more volume he is still giving you like 40% less production on a ton less efficiency/shooting.

The idea he "wouldnt be missed so much" is absurd. especially if you also factor in the guy you replace mills with as a 6th man is a downgrade also.

if people want to hate on kyrie or trade him thats their opinion and fine. but lets not pretend like we would be replacing lou williams or jordan clarkson.

I agree 100%. This is an elite player, top 15 at worst we're talking about here. Which goes back to our other discussion: Not having him for 40+ games and missing home playoff games is unacceptable.

Yeah yeah, we can probably curbstomp the league with Harden and KD at 100%, but if we have a healthy Kyrie for the long ride that puts our championship dreams nearer to reality.

[MrDollarBills]

Tomorrow the team returns to NY.

Kyrie absolutely cannot let this carry over past this week. Andrew Wiggins got vaccinated. He's fine. Unless there are legitimate health reasons such as a history of allergic reactions or if he's immunocompromised, Kyrie needs to get this over with so that he and the team can move on.

Of course it can carry over past this week. LONG past this week. Wiggins is irrelevant as is anyone else. It is Kyrie's decision to make and you have 0 insight into what is going on. Maybe he is working on a religious appeal. Maybe there are plans with contingencies. If he can get an exemption that process probably takes time and why should he wave his request for an exemption because it doesnt fit your timeline?

This goes back to the bashing Kyrie for being out, then everyone looking like an A-hole when it came out he missed the time for the birth of his kid. Kyrie keeps it personal, the team and his teammates support him. people need to deal with that, not some made up assumed reality with arbitrary timelines

We're not going to agree on this one because frankly, I don't believe that Kyrie should just be allowed to just do whatever he wants when everyone else on the team is doing what they need to do in order to keep themselves and everyone on the roster and staff safe. It's not just about him. The world does not revolve around him and what he does off the court in terms of humanitarian and social causes does not give him a free pass to do whatever he wants.

Everyone else on the team is vaccinated, he isn't. I'm tired of there always being an issue with the guy. So yes...unless he has legitimate medical reasons for not doing so, which I fully would understand, I really don't care anymore. Get it done. The Nets have bent over backwards for Kyrie, so it's time for him to reciprocate.

Also, I'm a fan of the team. I want to see the team win. I've grown tired of the whole "oh KD and Kyrie are all about non basketball stuff". Great, I'm glad that they are. Doesn't matter though in terms of basketball, which is what I'm here for.

Sounds callous, but hell. I'm over it. You're fine with the idea of Kyrie just lighting the team's season on fire by not being available to practice, play at home games, miss possibly an entire playoff series if we play the Knicks. Great. But I'm not, and I doubt everyone on the Nets are as supportive of this notion like you make it sound like. The man in charge already let it be known.

[MrDollarBills]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32337594/nets-kyrie-irving-lose-millions-according-nba-nbpa-agreement-salary-reduction-unvaccinated-players-miss-games-due-local-covid-19-vaccine-mandates

The Brooklyn Nets' Kyrie Irving stands to lose millions of dollars, as the NBA and the National Basketball Players Association have agreed to a reduction in pay of 1/91.6th of a player's salary for each game an unvaccinated player misses because of local COVID-19 vaccine mandates, sources told ESPN.

Teams, however, will not receive any luxury tax relief for these reductions in player salary, sources said.

$15 million dollars to be exact.

[Prokorov]

Yeah but the idea was to have Patty run SG next to Harden as he runs the 2nd unit, which would be a back breaking unit to defend for most benches in the league. Very disappointing if this doesn't play out the right way.

Kyrie last season: 27 ppg, 50/40/90

Mills best season, per36 to inflate volume scoring: 18 ppg on 43/38/86

so like, even if you give mills more volume/minutes and dont assume his averages go down with more volume he is still giving you like 40% less production on a ton less efficiency/shooting.

The idea he "wouldnt be missed so much" is absurd. especially if you also factor in the guy you replace mills with as a 6th man is a downgrade also.

if people want to hate on kyrie or trade him thats their opinion and fine. but lets not pretend like we would be replacing lou williams or jordan clarkson.

I agree 100%. This is an elite player, top 15 at worst we're talking about here. Which goes back to our other discussion: Not having him for 40+ games and missing home playoff games is unacceptable.

Yeah yeah, we can probably curbstomp the league with Harden and KD at 100%, but if we have a healthy Kyrie for the long ride that puts our championship dreams nearer to reality.

Ill let him miss 1 regular season game before i worry about 40. We simply dont know where it is in the process. he likely has a strong religious appeal and being a native american probably doesnt hurt either. If it came to it, i dont think we need at home until the playoffs. i dont think it will get to that... if it did it would suck because he is so fun to watch. i think we'd still win enough to be a top 2 seed.

Either way I support him, but me personally its not just about Basketball. i dont just want these guys to shut up and play (not saying you do). So if he doesnt, he doesnt and im good with that as long as he doesnt start preaching anti-vax nonsense and calling the pandemic a hoax like beal.

[Prokorov]

We're not going to agree on this one because frankly, I don't believe that Kyrie should just be allowed to just do whatever he wants when everyone else on the team is doing what they need to do in order to keep themselves and everyone on the roster and staff safe. It's not just about him. The world does not revolve around him and what he does off the court in terms of humanitarian and social causes does not give him a free pass to do whatever he wants.

I dont know what evidence there is he isnt doing whats needed to keep the team safe. its rigorous. multiple daily tests, quarantines, masks, etc... Vaccines obviously help a ton, but with the protocol they have and with everyone else vaccinated we are probably talking about reducing risks from .01% to .0001%. Its not like dude has ebola and is running around licking people

Everyone else on the team is vaccinated, he isn't. I'm tired of there always being an issue with the guy. So yes...unless he has legitimate medical reasons for not doing so, which I fully would understand, I really don't care anymore. Get it done. The Nets have bent over backwards for Kyrie, so it's time for him to reciprocate.

Yeah im not going to tell a grown black man what to do within the law. thats his choice. what "everyone else does" is frankly irrelevant. And i dont know what religious, medial, or personal reasons he has, nor does it matter to me. until he starts breaking laws or protocols i dont see the issue. He is a man first, not a net first and this isnt communist country where i can demand him to do something.

Sounds callous, but hell. I'm over it. You're fine with the idea of Kyrie just lighting the team's season on fire by not being available to practice, play at home games, miss possibly an entire playoff series if we play the Knicks. Great. But I'm not, and I doubt everyone on the Nets are as supportive of this notion like you make it sound like. The man in charge already let it be known.

I think Tsai was in the middle. said he respects kyries choice but wants him to get vaccinated. Youre opinion is obviously not worth anything less then mine.

[Prokorov]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32337594/nets-kyrie-irving-lose-millions-according-nba-nbpa-agreement-salary-reduction-unvaccinated-players-miss-games-due-local-covid-19-vaccine-mandates

The Brooklyn Nets' Kyrie Irving stands to lose millions of dollars, as the NBA and the National Basketball Players Association have agreed to a reduction in pay of 1/91.6th of a player's salary for each game an unvaccinated player misses because of local COVID-19 vaccine mandates, sources told ESPN.

Teams, however, will not receive any luxury tax relief for these reductions in player salary, sources said.

$15 million dollars to be exact.

That is really irrelevant money for someone who makes more off the court then on and is already has a net worth of well over $100 million. Endorsements with Nike, Pepsi, Panini and his investments including beyond meat.

I dont think Kyrie is going to sweat the cash.

I also dont know that he doesnt plan to get the vaccine. he may just want to exhaust other exemptions first. Wiggins didnt get vaxxed until his exemption was denied. If he is pressured, i doubts its by money. it is more likely wanting to play at home in front of friends and family and with KD.

[harlem_ball]

Stay on topic, peeps. This thread isn't about vax motivations or how Kyrie feels. This is about potentially trading him.

[harlem_ball]

Yeah but the idea was to have Patty run SG next to Harden as he runs the 2nd unit, which would be a back breaking unit to defend for most benches in the league. Very disappointing if this doesn't play out the right way.

Kyrie last season: 27 ppg, 50/40/90

Mills best season, per36 to inflate volume scoring: 18 ppg on 43/38/86

so like, even if you give mills more volume/minutes and dont assume his averages go down with more volume he is still giving you like 40% less production on a ton less efficiency/shooting.

The idea he "wouldnt be missed so much" is absurd. especially if you also factor in the guy you replace mills with as a 6th man is a downgrade also.

if people want to hate on kyrie or trade him thats their opinion and fine. but lets not pretend like we would be replacing lou williams or jordan clarkson.

I agree 100%. This is an elite player, top 15 at worst we're talking about here. Which goes back to our other discussion: Not having him for 40+ games and missing home playoff games is unacceptable.

Yeah yeah, we can probably curbstomp the league with Harden and KD at 100%, but if we have a healthy Kyrie for the long ride that puts our championship dreams nearer to reality.

It would be overkill with Kyrie probably. But hey, it's a super team.

[harlem_ball]

Patty Mills is a hell of a player. Kyrie won't be missed much.

Yeah but the idea was to have Patty run SG next to Harden as he runs the 2nd unit, which would be a back breaking unit to defend for most benches in the league. Very disappointing if this doesn't play out the right way.

Kyrie last season: 27 ppg, 50/40/90

Mills best season, per36 to inflate volume scoring: 18 ppg on 43/38/86

so like, even if you give mills more volume/minutes and dont assume his averages go down with more volume he is still giving you like 40% less production on a ton less efficiency/shooting.

The idea he "wouldnt be missed so much" is absurd. especially if you also factor in the guy you replace mills with as a 6th man is a downgrade also.

if people want to hate on kyrie or trade him thats their opinion and fine. but lets not pretend like we would be replacing lou williams or jordan clarkson.

Do the Nets really need that much production from the 2 guard spot?

[MrDollarBills]

Yeah but the idea was to have Patty run SG next to Harden as he runs the 2nd unit, which would be a back breaking unit to defend for most benches in the league. Very disappointing if this doesn't play out the right way.

Kyrie last season: 27 ppg, 50/40/90

Mills best season, per36 to inflate volume scoring: 18 ppg on 43/38/86

so like, even if you give mills more volume/minutes and dont assume his averages go down with more volume he is still giving you like 40% less production on a ton less efficiency/shooting.

The idea he "wouldnt be missed so much" is absurd. especially if you also factor in the guy you replace mills with as a 6th man is a downgrade also.

if people want to hate on kyrie or trade him thats their opinion and fine. but lets not pretend like we would be replacing lou williams or jordan clarkson.

Do the Nets really need that much production from the 2 guard spot?

Yes. We want blow people out by 30 points a night

[MrDollarBills]

Stay on topic, peeps. This thread isn't about vax motivations or how Kyrie feels. This is about potentially trading him.

I don't want to trade Kyrie.

[harlem_ball]

Stay on topic, peeps. This thread isn't about vax motivations or how Kyrie feels. This is about potentially trading him.

I don't want to trade Kyrie.

So, perhaps this thread is not for you?

[harlem_ball]

Kyrie last season: 27 ppg, 50/40/90

Mills best season, per36 to inflate volume scoring: 18 ppg on 43/38/86

so like, even if you give mills more volume/minutes and dont assume his averages go down with more volume he is still giving you like 40% less production on a ton less efficiency/shooting.

The idea he "wouldnt be missed so much" is absurd. especially if you also factor in the guy you replace mills with as a 6th man is a downgrade also.

if people want to hate on kyrie or trade him thats their opinion and fine. but lets not pretend like we would be replacing lou williams or jordan clarkson.

Do the Nets really need that much production from the 2 guard spot?

Yes. We want blow people out by 30 points a night

Boring.

[Prokorov]

Kyrie last season: 27 ppg, 50/40/90

Mills best season, per36 to inflate volume scoring: 18 ppg on 43/38/86

so like, even if you give mills more volume/minutes and dont assume his averages go down with more volume he is still giving you like 40% less production on a ton less efficiency/shooting.

The idea he "wouldnt be missed so much" is absurd. especially if you also factor in the guy you replace mills with as a 6th man is a downgrade also.

if people want to hate on kyrie or trade him thats their opinion and fine. but lets not pretend like we would be replacing lou williams or jordan clarkson.

I agree 100%. This is an elite player, top 15 at worst we're talking about here. Which goes back to our other discussion: Not having him for 40+ games and missing home playoff games is unacceptable.

Yeah yeah, we can probably curbstomp the league with Harden and KD at 100%, but if we have a healthy Kyrie for the long ride that puts our championship dreams nearer to reality.

It would be overkill with Kyrie probably. But hey, it's a super team.

We saw last year that it wasnt. miami is formidable and will be a tough out. milwaukee scares no one despite being champs and 76ers are paper tigers but Miami, La, Denver are all obstacles that would be tough without kyrie.

Alot of teams have 2 defenders who can lock you up. some teams like miami have even more. With Butler/Lowry to throw at harden, we know PJ tucker makes it tough for KD with bam lurking you need More. Without Kyrie we dont get past the heat. without any of the big 3 we dont/

[Prokorov]

Stay on topic, peeps. This thread isn't about vax motivations or how Kyrie feels. This is about potentially trading him.

I don't want to trade Kyrie.

no nets fan does (well maybe some bandwagoners who came over with harden?)

[harlem_ball]

I agree 100%. This is an elite player, top 15 at worst we're talking about here. Which goes back to our other discussion: Not having him for 40+ games and missing home playoff games is unacceptable.

Yeah yeah, we can probably curbstomp the league with Harden and KD at 100%, but if we have a healthy Kyrie for the long ride that puts our championship dreams nearer to reality.

It would be overkill with Kyrie probably. But hey, it's a super team.

We saw last year that it wasnt. miami is formidable and will be a tough out. milwaukee scares no one despite being champs and 76ers are paper tigers but Miami, La, Denver are all obstacles that would be tough without kyrie.

Alot of teams have 2 defenders who can lock you up. some teams like miami have even more. With Butler/Lowry to throw at harden, we know PJ tucker makes it tough for KD with bam lurking you need More. Without Kyrie we dont get past the heat. without any of the big 3 we dont/

Kyrie Irving, James Harden and Kevin Durant not a super team? C'mon, man!

[Prokorov]

It would be overkill with Kyrie probably. But hey, it's a super team.

We saw last year that it wasnt. miami is formidable and will be a tough out. milwaukee scares no one despite being champs and 76ers are paper tigers but Miami, La, Denver are all obstacles that would be tough without kyrie.

Alot of teams have 2 defenders who can lock you up. some teams like miami have even more. With Butler/Lowry to throw at harden, we know PJ tucker makes it tough for KD with bam lurking you need More. Without Kyrie we dont get past the heat. without any of the big 3 we dont/

Kyrie Irving, James Harden and Kevin Durant not a super team? C'mon, man!

"it wasn't" refers to overkill, not superteam

[harlem_ball]

We saw last year that it wasnt. miami is formidable and will be a tough out. milwaukee scares no one despite being champs and 76ers are paper tigers but Miami, La, Denver are all obstacles that would be tough without kyrie.

Alot of teams have 2 defenders who can lock you up. some teams like miami have even more. With Butler/Lowry to throw at harden, we know PJ tucker makes it tough for KD with bam lurking you need More. Without Kyrie we dont get past the heat. without any of the big 3 we dont/

Kyrie Irving, James Harden and Kevin Durant not a super team? C'mon, man!

"it wasn't" refers to overkill, not superteam

Ah yes. My mistake. Indeed, this is a delicate bunch.

[HardenGoat]

Myocarditis is an inflammatory condition of the heart and can occur when a virus causes a sudden demand on the immune system. Unvaccinated people are the most at risk. Aldridge does not have an organic heart problem (heart muscle, valves, etc), he has an electrical conduction feedback loop disorder which he most likely elected for eblation treatment to correct (he probably has avoided this for years choosing medication to control). I have seen young patients succumb to virus induced myocarditis and become vegetables living in long term care facilities as a result. Kyrie himself would be most at risk although Aldridge would still be a higher risk than the rest of the players. Having him unvaccinated is a risk to everyone and it's sad he is trying to set an example that is opposite what is best for society regardless of race.

Thanks for the breakdown and pointing out the distinction between LMA's condition.

Also, that's absolutely terrifying. Question: Is this the reason why COVID patients who are deathly ill end up having to go on ECMO machines or nah?

The reason unvaccinated people are more at risk of adverse effects is due to the initial lack of an immune response to what is a new (novel) virus. The virus replicates quickly and unchecked. When the immune system finally does respond it does so at a level that causes systemic inflammation (realize inflammation is part of the normal response and it is beneficial when in a local area). Systemic inflammation can overwhelm vital organs which in turn become inflammed - lungs, heart, kidneys, etc. Breathing support and oxygenation help the lung condition. What the vaccine does is it helps the immune system to respond predictably and at a more controlled level. This lessens the chance a person has a systemic response. This is what is overwhelming our hospitals and ICU's. The arguments against the vaccine that use binary data miss what is really happening here (ie. Doesn't prevent disease therefore I won't take it, or I'am healthy I don't need it, or natural immunity is better etc) . It's true healthier and younger people with normal immune systems are less at risk to die or be hospitalized but they are taking a chance, we are seeing people hospitalized and damaged by this virus that were previously very healthy and fit. The common denominator is they are unvaccinated. Getting everyone vaccinated is critical to controlling this pandemic and easing the burden on our health care system. I'll leave it at that. I can go into depth on why diabetics are such a high risk and how age affects our immune response (including children) but that doesn't change the guidelines we have in place.