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Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real

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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#761 » by Susan » Tue Oct 5, 2021 2:53 am

Dresden wrote:
fleet wrote:
Dresden wrote:
I don't know who Rich Eisen is, but I don't see why he should be so surprised. Fields and the Bears beat one of the worst teams in football. The week before, against a very good defense, Fields had a net of 1 yard passing. If Fields had just gone out and beat the Rams or the Packers, it would be a different story.

Because it is so unsurprising that Matt Nagy would reach for quarterback Dalton, who that led the team to a whole 14 points (7 scored by Justin) against the Rams that you mention?


No, it's not that surprising. Nagy awarded the starting position to Dalton at the start of the year because he thinks he gives them the best chance to win. A win against the Lions by Fields doesn't change the equation all that much. Like I said, if had done that against a good team, it would be different. But this guy Eisen acts like it's a big shock that beating a hapless Lions team doesn't automatically vault him into the starting job and that seems a bit ridiculous.


Which of the following teams are the Bears better than with Andy Dalton?

Green Bay
Tampa Bay
Arizona
Los Angeles Rams
Dallas
Seattle
San Francisco

Who we beating on this schedule?
@Raiders
Green Bay
@Tampa Bay
San Fran
@Steelers
Ravens
@Lions
Cardinals
@Green Bay
Vikings
@Seahawks
Giants
@Green Bay

Should win (50%+ chance to win)- Steelers, Detroit, 1/2 Vikings, Giants
Could win (20-50% chance to win)- Raiders, San Fran, 1/2 Vikings
Will lose (10-20% chance to win)- Green Bay, Tampa Bay, Ravens, Cardinals, Green Bay, Seahawks
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#762 » by fleet » Tue Oct 5, 2021 3:04 am

Susan wrote:
Dresden wrote:
fleet wrote:Because it is so unsurprising that Matt Nagy would reach for quarterback Dalton, who that led the team to a whole 14 points (7 scored by Justin) against the Rams that you mention?


No, it's not that surprising. Nagy awarded the starting position to Dalton at the start of the year because he thinks he gives them the best chance to win. A win against the Lions by Fields doesn't change the equation all that much. Like I said, if had done that against a good team, it would be different. But this guy Eisen acts like it's a big shock that beating a hapless Lions team doesn't automatically vault him into the starting job and that seems a bit ridiculous.


Which of the following teams are the Bears better than with Andy Dalton?

Green Bay
Tampa Bay
Arizona
Los Angeles Rams
Dallas
Seattle
San Francisco

Who we beating on this schedule?
@Raiders
Green Bay
@Tampa Bay
San Fran
@Steelers
Ravens
@Lions
Cardinals
@Green Bay
Vikings
@Seahawks
Giants
@Green Bay

Should win (50%+ chance to win)- Steelers, Detroit, 1/2 Vikings, Giants
Could win (20-50% chance to win)- Raiders, San Fran, 1/2 Vikings
Will lose (10-20% chance to win)- Green Bay, Tampa Bay, Ravens, Cardinals, Green Bay, Seahawks


Cold question. And the answer doesn’t really matter. There is no priority point to this year more important than getting Justin some experience (your point). If the Bears were going anywhere it might be a relevant question to ask. But the answer is illustrative of the problem that a Matt Nagy unfortunately lights up. He does not have Alex Smith to turn to. He has Andy Dalton. I bet in the heart, Nagy understands that. But as we have been learning more and more, Nagy has an ego that is wrapped up in getting his particular offense to look better, which is evidently more important to him than getting Justin as much experience as possible before 2022.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#763 » by nomorezorro » Tue Oct 5, 2021 3:29 am

i don’t see any reason to get mad about nagy’s stupid press conferences until he actually makes a decision worth getting mad about. people got worked up about his qb and play caller shell game last week, but the end result was fields starting and lazor calling plays.

there’s a chance he’s running out the “andy is our starter when healthy, but we want to make a decision by wednesday” line so he has cover to start fields on sunday and yank him without issue if he looks browns-level bad against a non-lions team. i think it’d be dumb to start dalton this week, but i’m choosing not to be fatalistic!
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#764 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Tue Oct 5, 2021 3:51 am

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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#765 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Tue Oct 5, 2021 3:56 am

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
Dresden wrote:
fleet wrote:Because it is so unsurprising that Matt Nagy would reach for quarterback Dalton, who that led the team to a whole 14 points (7 scored by Justin) against the Rams that you mention?


No, it's not that surprising. Nagy awarded the starting position to Dalton at the start of the year because he thinks he gives them the best chance to win. A win against the Lions by Fields doesn't change the equation all that much. Like I said, if had done that against a good team, it would be different. But this guy Eisen acts like it's a big shock that beating a hapless Lions team doesn't automatically vault him into the starting job and that seems a bit ridiculous.


Wake up!



I apologize for that comment. But this is bigger than Nagy’s agenda. This is about the franchise. This is about a team that has had this QB curse for decades. We don’t give a damn about Nagy’s agenda or Dalton’s feelings if he was promised a starting job! They aren’t here for the long haul. Heck they might not be here much longer at all. Fields is the focus now and tomorrow. Let it go.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#766 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Tue Oct 5, 2021 4:32 am

:banghead:
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#767 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Tue Oct 5, 2021 4:34 am

Lets promote Nagy to director of cheerleading.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#768 » by Chi town » Tue Oct 5, 2021 10:49 am

Nagy is doing everything he can to get fired. As of now the only way he keeps his job is if Dalton plays way beyond anything he has shown and gets the zebras to the playoffs or Fields makes significant progress and shows he’s the future.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#769 » by MalagaBulls » Tue Oct 5, 2021 1:42 pm

More sobering facts & stats about our team offensive rankings through week 4:

1. Total offense: DEAD LAST
2. Total yard passing/YPG: DEAD LAST
3. Total rushing yards/YPG: 9th
4. Total points PPG: 28th
5. Total sacks allowed: Tied for 30th (16)
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#770 » by Susan » Tue Oct 5, 2021 2:37 pm

Read on Twitter


I like Grant, should be our full time returner and could do some of the stuff Patterson tried to do for us. Herbert is going to have a big role while Montgomery is out so you can't have him returning kicks and whoever our punt guy was, he was bad.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#771 » by Dresden » Tue Oct 5, 2021 2:44 pm

Susan wrote:
Dresden wrote:
fleet wrote:Because it is so unsurprising that Matt Nagy would reach for quarterback Dalton, who that led the team to a whole 14 points (7 scored by Justin) against the Rams that you mention?


No, it's not that surprising. Nagy awarded the starting position to Dalton at the start of the year because he thinks he gives them the best chance to win. A win against the Lions by Fields doesn't change the equation all that much. Like I said, if had done that against a good team, it would be different. But this guy Eisen acts like it's a big shock that beating a hapless Lions team doesn't automatically vault him into the starting job and that seems a bit ridiculous.


Which of the following teams are the Bears better than with Andy Dalton?

Green Bay
Tampa Bay
Arizona
Los Angeles Rams
Dallas
Seattle
San Francisco

Who we beating on this schedule?
@Raiders
Green Bay
@Tampa Bay
San Fran
@Steelers
Ravens
@Lions
Cardinals
@Green Bay
Vikings
@Seahawks
Giants
@Green Bay

Should win (50%+ chance to win)- Steelers, Detroit, 1/2 Vikings, Giants
Could win (20-50% chance to win)- Raiders, San Fran, 1/2 Vikings
Will lose (10-20% chance to win)- Green Bay, Tampa Bay, Ravens, Cardinals, Green Bay, Seahawks


The question should always be- which QB gives us the best chance to win. I don't think the other 51 players on the roster are in favor of using a QB that does not give them the best chance to win, i.e., they arent going to be in favor of giving up on the season just to develop a new QB. Not when you have guys like Mack who are nearing the end of their prime.

And I"m not saying Dalton should start the rest of the season. A couple more games to see how he does. If sucks, then you can bring in Fields. It's not going to permanently hinder the development of Fields to not start for a couple of games.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#772 » by fleet » Tue Oct 5, 2021 3:28 pm

^^^^

First show me the proof or indicator that Dalton icreases chances to win. Then we’ll talk.

Besides necessary development, the other reason Fields must play is what Wanny said this morning. NAGY needs to show Pace and McCaskey that he is the right coach to develop Fields, and an offense for him. So far, not so much as Joe playcaller.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#773 » by CaPiTanAK » Tue Oct 5, 2021 4:48 pm

Matt Fake Nagy is writing his pink sleep day by day. Sorry, if you aren't willing to develop Justin Fields, you might as well kiss your NFL career good bye.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#774 » by TheFinishSniper » Tue Oct 5, 2021 4:57 pm

fleet wrote:First show me the proof or indicator that Dalton icreases chances to win. Then we’ll talk.

Besides necessary development, the other reason Fields must play is what Wanny said this morning. NAGY needs to show Pace and McCaskey that he is the right coach to develop Fields, and an offense for him. So far, not so much as Joe playcaller.

There is no proof. There is no indicator. Thats why Nagy is gonna be fired sooner than later.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#775 » by micromonkey » Tue Oct 5, 2021 6:58 pm

This is probably true:
Dalton probably runs Nagy's preferred version of the offense better--so in that regard he increases our chances to win--doing it the Nagy way. And while he gave it over to Lazor for DET--who knows if he can keep his hands off of it.

But if we step even more into a Ravens type run heavy attack and moving the pocket (and add in some more Fields runs/opportunistic runs) and deeper target depths--then who knows--we probably end up with a similar record and get some QB development in the process. I think Fields is definitely pass first--which is good--but we should encourage him to use elite speed just a tad more via design. He needs to learn to feel pressure better--and I hope he doesn't turn into a Dave Krieg when it comes to fumbling on hit/sacks. (yes Moon/Farve have more but Krieg has about 1000-1500 less drop backs)

I would say this--it was more than just hopeful eye tests in what we saw from Fields--those were deep throws on the money. But I expect a stock market ride from him--ups and downs during year 1.

Looking at the EPA and depth of target and "completion above expected" Fields had a really really good day for a rookie--(but it was DET).

https://rbsdm.com/stats/box_scores/?_inputs_&type=%22reg%22&away=%22DET%22&home=%22CHI%22&year=%222021%22

EPA stats are good and while his 64% completion does not seem gaudy--based on the depth of target the expected % is 55 - so he was completing lower percentage/harder passes at a good clip

Now to be fair Dalton was dink/dunking to near perfection vs. CIN before injury (which was a nice scramble run)
https://rbsdm.com/stats/box_scores/?_inputs_&type=%22reg%22&away=%22CIN%22&home=%22CHI%22&year=%222021%22

(this is like open source / poor man PFF type stats)

Not deep passes at all--but he was completing everything--likely it goes down a bit but still--he was playing well within what Nagy was calling.

We have so many issues with this team to be worried about maybe under-performing in 1-2 games with Fields. But I can't even convince myself that there are many teams that Nagy's gameplan is actually going to result in a win.

Nagy really wants to run a run and Shoop offense. And even then--if he's not getting 6 yards a carry--nix the run completely. If we had prime Tom Brady and a better line and better receivers--then that could work. Since we are 0/3 on that front--then I just don't see--we can't make this crap work.

The TEs completely stink and we need to rethink WTF we are doing. Maybe just throw more blockers in there and throw to WRs who can at least sometimes get some separation. Mooney doesn't have Robinson's hands (yet?) but man he can at least separate. Kmet is a massive letdown, falling down all over the place and no hands. Jimmy Graham may still care but he's near worthless at this point as well. We'd be better getting pure run blocking TE's or a blocking FB that can catch, or lining up OL as TE if needed--as I'm sure a 300 pounder will catch worse as Kmet/Graham on a short pass but block WAY better for the 9/10 other plays. If we got a few TDs thrown to big dudes--it'd probably equal what we get from that duo.

To paraphrase the hilarious Buddy Ryan on our "top" TEs
Jimmy Graham will be selling insurance in two years.
On Cole Kmet I think Buddy's "Trade him for a six-pack. It doesn’t even have to be cold." is true.

We got 4 TEs and 4 RBs--with one on PUP and one out for a few weeks.
One group can give you production the other is stinking up the joint....
Decisions decisions.... :dontknow:
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#776 » by the ultimates » Tue Oct 5, 2021 7:31 pm

Fields should be starting period. Lazor should call the plays. Fields gains nothing from watching on the sidelines seeing Andy Dalton run a gameplan designed around Andy Dalton. Another thing to consider is that backup quarterbacks get very few reps in practice so how is that helping Fields.

Yes, Detroit is a bad team but damn people make it seem like the Lions haven't been competitive this season. They were down big to San Francisco but only lost by eight. Green Bay whooped them in the second half. The Ravens needed a 4 and 19 conversation and a record-setting field goal to beat them. They sacked Jackson four times and held the Ravens to 1-10 on third down by the way.
Losing to get high draft picks and hoping they turn into franchise players is not some next level, genius move. That's what teams want to happen in any rebuild/tank or whatever you want to market it as.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#777 » by Susan » Tue Oct 5, 2021 8:23 pm

micromonkey wrote:This is probably true:
Dalton probably runs Nagy's preferred version of the offense better--so in that regard he increases our chances to win--doing it the Nagy way. And while he gave it over to Lazor for DET--who knows if he can keep his hands off of it.

But if we step even more into a Ravens type run heavy attack and moving the pocket (and add in some more Fields runs/opportunistic runs) and deeper target depths--then who knows--we probably end up with a similar record and get some QB development in the process. I think Fields is definitely pass first--which is good--but we should encourage him to use elite speed just a tad more via design. He needs to learn to feel pressure better--and I hope he doesn't turn into a Dave Krieg when it comes to fumbling on hit/sacks. (yes Moon/Farve have more but Krieg has about 1000-1500 less drop backs)

I would say this--it was more than just hopeful eye tests in what we saw from Fields--those were deep throws on the money. But I expect a stock market ride from him--ups and downs during year 1.

Looking at the EPA and depth of target and "completion above expected" Fields had a really really good day for a rookie--(but it was DET).

https://rbsdm.com/stats/box_scores/?_inputs_&type=%22reg%22&away=%22DET%22&home=%22CHI%22&year=%222021%22

EPA stats are good and while his 64% completion does not seem gaudy--based on the depth of target the expected % is 55 - so he was completing lower percentage/harder passes at a good clip

Now to be fair Dalton was dink/dunking to near perfection vs. CIN before injury (which was a nice scramble run)
https://rbsdm.com/stats/box_scores/?_inputs_&type=%22reg%22&away=%22CIN%22&home=%22CHI%22&year=%222021%22

(this is like open source / poor man PFF type stats)

Not deep passes at all--but he was completing everything--likely it goes down a bit but still--he was playing well within what Nagy was calling.

We have so many issues with this team to be worried about maybe under-performing in 1-2 games with Fields. But I can't even convince myself that there are many teams that Nagy's gameplan is actually going to result in a win.

Nagy really wants to run a run and Shoop offense. And even then--if he's not getting 6 yards a carry--nix the run completely. If we had prime Tom Brady and a better line and better receivers--then that could work. Since we are 0/3 on that front--then I just don't see--we can't make this crap work.

The TEs completely stink and we need to rethink WTF we are doing. Maybe just throw more blockers in there and throw to WRs who can at least sometimes get some separation. Mooney doesn't have Robinson's hands (yet?) but man he can at least separate. Kmet is a massive letdown, falling down all over the place and no hands. Jimmy Graham may still care but he's near worthless at this point as well. We'd be better getting pure run blocking TE's or a blocking FB that can catch, or lining up OL as TE if needed--as I'm sure a 300 pounder will catch worse as Kmet/Graham on a short pass but block WAY better for the 9/10 other plays. If we got a few TDs thrown to big dudes--it'd probably equal what we get from that duo.

To paraphrase the hilarious Buddy Ryan on our "top" TEs
Jimmy Graham will be selling insurance in two years.
On Cole Kmet I think Buddy's "Trade him for a six-pack. It doesn’t even have to be cold." is true.

We got 4 TEs and 4 RBs--with one on PUP and one out for a few weeks.
One group can give you production the other is stinking up the joint....
Decisions decisions.... :dontknow:


Excellent post - only gripe I have is that TE is such a weird position that takes a minute to really get rolling in the NFL

Give him some stability at the QB spot and OC before making judgements.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#778 » by chicagoballer » Tue Oct 5, 2021 8:44 pm

MalagaBulls wrote:More sobering facts & stats about our team offensive rankings through week 4:

1. Total offense: DEAD LAST
2. Total yard passing/YPG: DEAD LAST
3. Total rushing yards/YPG: 9th
4. Total points PPG: 28th
5. Total sacks allowed: Tied for 30th (16)


Before we know it, the season will finish with similar rankings…which are a reflection of the last few years’ offensive rankings. I also expect the defense to continue their sliding from 2018 level.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#779 » by Dresden » Tue Oct 5, 2021 8:45 pm

fleet wrote:^^^^

First show me the proof or indicator that Dalton icreases chances to win. Then we’ll talk.

Besides necessary development, the other reason Fields must play is what Wanny said this morning. NAGY needs to show Pace and McCaskey that he is the right coach to develop Fields, and an offense for him. So far, not so much as Joe playcaller.


What kind of proof can you offer that one player is better than another in a situation like this, where one is a 10 year veteran and one has played 5 halves of NFL football? All the proof I need is that the coaches, who have seen both of them way more than any of us has, have decided that Dalton is better right now.
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Re: Bears talk 2.0; Fields era begins for real for real 

Post#780 » by transplant » Tue Oct 5, 2021 8:48 pm

I'm anti-media. Many fans let the loudest media voices shape their opinions. The media always says that they're simply the "conduit" for fans. In general, I think this is bull****. They're not a conduit, they're the catalyst.

This said, barring an injury to Fields, I see no reason to replace him with Dalton and despite the rhetoric from Nagy, I believe Fields is QB1 for all practical purposes...hopefully for the next 10 years or so.
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