Moderators: KingDavid, MettaWorldPanda, Wiltside, IggieCC, BFRESH44, QUIZ, heat4life
Wiltside wrote:harlem_ball wrote:insfo wrote:No ATL game thread yet? Are we waiting for Iggie to start one and "kick off" our season?
The forum seems pretty dead from what I had seen before. Did COVID kill a bunch of the fanbase?
The forum will be back. The dead days of the offseason are now behind us, it’ll pick up.
Wiltside wrote:harlem_ball wrote:insfo wrote:No ATL game thread yet? Are we waiting for Iggie to start one and "kick off" our season?
The forum seems pretty dead from what I had seen before. Did COVID kill a bunch of the fanbase?
The forum will be back. The dead days of the offseason are now behind us, it’ll pick up.
Chalm Downs wrote:his nickname is boywonder ffs
AirP. wrote:BenoUdrihFTL wrote:With the offball work and body control required to execute Duncan's DHOs, I'm not sure it's easier than a standstill catch&shoot where you still have just enough room to get a clean shot off. I guess it depends on the specific player and what they're just naturally better at -- shooting on the move or standstill
I've witnessed with my own eyes the failed possessions where Duncan wasn't able to get the shot off, so I know it happens. You're right that we don't have the data for how often it occurs, but neither do we have the data for just how impactful the play (and the threat of it) is when it comes to commanding defensive attention and opening things up for everyone else on the floor -- possessions when Duncan doesn't even touch the ball. It's pretty much the only wrinkle to our offense that commands perimeter gravity and we've seen teams like the Bucks make it their first priority to stop when facing us. I've said it before; we're perhaps the only team in the entire NBA whose two best players can't/won't shoot from outside, so it's hard to understate just how crucial that Duncan dimension is to our offense
Duncan scored 13.1 ppg, yes, that's one way of summing up his contributions. Another is to note the fact that he single-handedly accounted for 27% of the team's total 3pt production, all while unlocking untold scoring opportunities for everyone else on the floor with him.
But aside from all this, my underlying point is that whoever fills Duncan's role on this team is gonna need to replicate Duncan's ultra elite ability to hit contested 3s. Right or wrong, that's what Spo asks of the position within the team's system and there's only a handful of guys who can do it on Duncan's level
ORTG is a measure of how much a player contributes to the offense based off his own stats and the actual stats produced while that player is on the court which I mentioned going from a great 122 the 19-20 season down to 113 this last season which worries me for a player getting a sizable contract.
I get Robinson is doing what Spoelstra wanted, it's why Spoelstra had him worked so much on that DHO shot during his time in the D-League and even with Miami and maybe it's somewhat of a payback for all the hard work but I just think the FO and/or the coaches get too attached to marginal players and overpay them, for instance in recent years T.Johnson, J.Johnson, D.Waiters, and Whiteside. Also, I get that there may not be others who can do that DHO like Robinson, but my god his lack of bringing anything else to the team is a negative problem.
MiamiSun wrote:It's not about over paying a player. Its about filling a salary slot. Giving Duncan this contract makes him a very useful trade piece when trying to acquire another star player. That's the problem we had this off season. We wanted to bring Demar Derozen in but did not have the outgoing salary to match what he wanted for a sign and trade. If you can't bring in players as free agents, then you have to go the trade/sign and trade route. If we don't have the salaries to match then you are not going to be able to get it done. Say what you want about the Whiteside contract but look what it brought us back when we traded him. I am sure the FO is not just randomly paying players. They have a plan and their plan I am sure looks years into the future.
MiamiSun wrote:It's not about over paying a player. Its about filling a salary slot. Giving Duncan this contract makes him a very useful trade piece when trying to acquire another star player. That's the problem we had this off season. We wanted to bring Demar Derozen in but did not have the outgoing salary to match what he wanted for a sign and trade. If you can't bring in players as free agents, then you have to go the trade/sign and trade route. If we don't have the salaries to match then you are not going to be able to get it done. Say what you want about the Whiteside contract but look what it brought us back when we traded him. I am sure the FO is not just randomly paying players. They have a plan and their plan I am sure looks years into the future.
Spoiler:
AirP. wrote:On Whiteside in the Butler trade, Miami had to cut salary to make the Butler deal with Philly so they had to add 2 more teams to the trade to sent out Whiteside's salary and it cost Miami a 1st to do so to only bringing back Leaond(Harkless was sent with a 1st to LA). Miami had to get far enough under the cap to get a valid trade with Philly since Richardson's contract was so small(compared to Butler's).
With Robinson, it would have been possible to work with him to get a S&T for player of need since Miami already had Herro, Strus and at sometime Oladipo and even if you think it's a downgrade, you could have really addressed the big next to Bam which I think it's a bigger problem with Tucker or Morris handling that position. Then again, I probably would have tried moving Robinson last season at the deadline, maybe even for just a 1st. At this point wouldn't be surprised if Robinson is moved before the 2024 season.
Also, paying Robinson this year made filling out the roster difficult while staying under the tax this season. Say Robinson walked for nothing(not optimal, probably doesn't happen since they had his Bird rights to push a S&T), Miami could have paid Nunn more then LA(at least matched or kept him 1 more year on the QO) did while probably adding 2 more decent players/prospects, for instance one that would have been interesting coming off the bench would have been M.Monk who LA got for the minimum and add another player like P.Milsap, M.Muscala, J.Green or T.Lyles. Miami is up against the tax now which is why signing C.Martin to a 2 way was so important since it doesn't count against the cap.
harlem_ball wrote:Spoiler:
Nah.
I don't like your GM moves at all but thanks for sharing with us.
AirP. wrote:harlem_ball wrote:Spoiler:
Nah.
I don't like your GM moves at all but thanks for sharing with us.
No problem, it'll be fun to read the posts in a couple of years when people start talking about not liking or wanting to move Robinson's contract.
harlem_ball wrote:AirP. wrote:harlem_ball wrote:Spoiler:
Nah.
I don't like your GM moves at all but thanks for sharing with us.
No problem, it'll be fun to read the posts in a couple of years when people start talking about not liking or wanting to move Robinson's contract.
I understand your concern about him being one dimensional but his ability to shoot w/o space is respected and he is considered second only to Curry in moving w/o the ball. He is also about to enter his prime so that contract will have value.
AirP. wrote:harlem_ball wrote:AirP. wrote:No problem, it'll be fun to read the posts in a couple of years when people start talking about not liking or wanting to move Robinson's contract.
I understand your concern about him being one dimensional but his ability to shoot w/o space is respected and he is considered second only to Curry in moving w/o the ball. He is also about to enter his prime so that contract will have value.
Great, he put up 13.1 ppg with that incredible ability... meaning the rest of his skills are subpar for the NBA. He gave Miami 11.7, then 10.3 ppg the last 2 years in the playoffs because the defenses get better and if you can only shoot, you're going to have a problem finding shots.
AirP. wrote:MiamiSun wrote:It's not about over paying a player. Its about filling a salary slot. Giving Duncan this contract makes him a very useful trade piece when trying to acquire another star player. That's the problem we had this off season. We wanted to bring Demar Derozen in but did not have the outgoing salary to match what he wanted for a sign and trade. If you can't bring in players as free agents, then you have to go the trade/sign and trade route. If we don't have the salaries to match then you are not going to be able to get it done. Say what you want about the Whiteside contract but look what it brought us back when we traded him. I am sure the FO is not just randomly paying players. They have a plan and their plan I am sure looks years into the future.
Spoiler:
On Whiteside in the Butler trade, Miami had to cut salary to make the Butler deal with Philly so they had to add 2 more teams to the trade to sent out Whiteside's salary and it cost Miami a 1st to do so to only bringing back Leaond(Harkless was sent with a 1st to LA). Miami had to get far enough under the cap to get a valid trade with Philly since Richardson's contract was so small(compared to Butler's).
With Robinson, it would have been possible to work with him to get a S&T for player of need since Miami already had Herro, Strus and at sometime Oladipo and even if you think it's a downgrade, you could have really addressed the big next to Bam which I think it's a bigger problem with Tucker or Morris handling that position. Then again, I probably would have tried moving Robinson last season at the deadline, maybe even for just a 1st. At this point wouldn't be surprised if Robinson is moved before the 2024 season.
Also, paying Robinson this year made filling out the roster difficult while staying under the tax this season. Say Robinson walked for nothing(not optimal, probably doesn't happen since they had his Bird rights to push a S&T), Miami could have paid Nunn more then LA(at least matched or kept him 1 more year on the QO) did while probably adding 2 more decent players/prospects, for instance one that would have been interesting coming off the bench would have been M.Monk who LA got for the minimum and add another player like P.Milsap, M.Muscala, J.Green or T.Lyles. Miami is up against the tax now which is why signing C.Martin to a 2 way was so important since it doesn't count against the cap.
I think Robinson has value as a 3pt bomber, I just would rather give that type of money to a more well rounded player who can shoot 3s. This is no longer a league where there's only a few 3pt shooters, the league average from the 3pt line is 37% which means you probably shouldn't be paying a lot of money to a guy who's only real NBA skill is shooting 3s 3-5% better then league average.
oreon wrote:AirP. wrote:MiamiSun wrote:It's not about over paying a player. Its about filling a salary slot. Giving Duncan this contract makes him a very useful trade piece when trying to acquire another star player. That's the problem we had this off season. We wanted to bring Demar Derozen in but did not have the outgoing salary to match what he wanted for a sign and trade. If you can't bring in players as free agents, then you have to go the trade/sign and trade route. If we don't have the salaries to match then you are not going to be able to get it done. Say what you want about the Whiteside contract but look what it brought us back when we traded him. I am sure the FO is not just randomly paying players. They have a plan and their plan I am sure looks years into the future.
Spoiler:
On Whiteside in the Butler trade, Miami had to cut salary to make the Butler deal with Philly so they had to add 2 more teams to the trade to sent out Whiteside's salary and it cost Miami a 1st to do so to only bringing back Leaond(Harkless was sent with a 1st to LA). Miami had to get far enough under the cap to get a valid trade with Philly since Richardson's contract was so small(compared to Butler's).
With Robinson, it would have been possible to work with him to get a S&T for player of need since Miami already had Herro, Strus and at sometime Oladipo and even if you think it's a downgrade, you could have really addressed the big next to Bam which I think it's a bigger problem with Tucker or Morris handling that position. Then again, I probably would have tried moving Robinson last season at the deadline, maybe even for just a 1st. At this point wouldn't be surprised if Robinson is moved before the 2024 season.
Also, paying Robinson this year made filling out the roster difficult while staying under the tax this season. Say Robinson walked for nothing(not optimal, probably doesn't happen since they had his Bird rights to push a S&T), Miami could have paid Nunn more then LA(at least matched or kept him 1 more year on the QO) did while probably adding 2 more decent players/prospects, for instance one that would have been interesting coming off the bench would have been M.Monk who LA got for the minimum and add another player like P.Milsap, M.Muscala, J.Green or T.Lyles. Miami is up against the tax now which is why signing C.Martin to a 2 way was so important since it doesn't count against the cap.
I think Robinson has value as a 3pt bomber, I just would rather give that type of money to a more well rounded player who can shoot 3s. This is no longer a league where there's only a few 3pt shooters, the league average from the 3pt line is 37% which means you probably shouldn't be paying a lot of money to a guy who's only real NBA skill is shooting 3s 3-5% better then league average.
I agree on Duncan but his contract is easily tradeable. This is a nice team but it's not good enough to beat Nets. I think Riley knows that. I don't think the FO think Duncan is a lifer. Everyone apart from Lowry, Butler and Bam is movable. If Herro starts season well, you can bet under the radar the Heat will see what a package of Duncan + Herro can get.
I wouldn't be shocked if sometime in the next 2 seasons one or both of them are moved. I think Duncan is way more likely to happen.
We are in win now. Whether you like or not, the FO is not reluctant to trade young players who are not stars for a better chance to win just gotta like at Winslow and J Rich
One thing that PJ brings that is not shown on the stat sheet is his ability to set screens and block out in which Ariza was horrible at.MettaWorldPanda wrote:Love how we finally looked like a team with size this last preseason game. PJ though undersized but is a true banger that helps Bam and can hit that corner three with ease. Markieff Morris looks like a behemoth at PF alongside Bam and takes a ton of pressure off him. Kieff essentially can bang with any big allowing Bam to play free. Dedmon and Morris pairing controlled the paint and allowed the scorers and shooters to do there thing.
I really like what I saw out of Caleb Martin. For sure looks to be our next DJJ reclamation project maybe even better. Martin and Strus look like a really nice pairing. Vincent had a few moments but still remains a third guard type. I still see nothing from KZ. Martin already looks to be the much better player. Herro and Strus will play vital roles this year.
harlem_ball wrote:oreon wrote:AirP. wrote:On Whiteside in the Butler trade, Miami had to cut salary to make the Butler deal with Philly so they had to add 2 more teams to the trade to sent out Whiteside's salary and it cost Miami a 1st to do so to only bringing back Leaond(Harkless was sent with a 1st to LA). Miami had to get far enough under the cap to get a valid trade with Philly since Richardson's contract was so small(compared to Butler's).
With Robinson, it would have been possible to work with him to get a S&T for player of need since Miami already had Herro, Strus and at sometime Oladipo and even if you think it's a downgrade, you could have really addressed the big next to Bam which I think it's a bigger problem with Tucker or Morris handling that position. Then again, I probably would have tried moving Robinson last season at the deadline, maybe even for just a 1st. At this point wouldn't be surprised if Robinson is moved before the 2024 season.
Also, paying Robinson this year made filling out the roster difficult while staying under the tax this season. Say Robinson walked for nothing(not optimal, probably doesn't happen since they had his Bird rights to push a S&T), Miami could have paid Nunn more then LA(at least matched or kept him 1 more year on the QO) did while probably adding 2 more decent players/prospects, for instance one that would have been interesting coming off the bench would have been M.Monk who LA got for the minimum and add another player like P.Milsap, M.Muscala, J.Green or T.Lyles. Miami is up against the tax now which is why signing C.Martin to a 2 way was so important since it doesn't count against the cap.
I think Robinson has value as a 3pt bomber, I just would rather give that type of money to a more well rounded player who can shoot 3s. This is no longer a league where there's only a few 3pt shooters, the league average from the 3pt line is 37% which means you probably shouldn't be paying a lot of money to a guy who's only real NBA skill is shooting 3s 3-5% better then league average.
I agree on Duncan but his contract is easily tradeable. This is a nice team but it's not good enough to beat Nets. I think Riley knows that. I don't think the FO think Duncan is a lifer. Everyone apart from Lowry, Butler and Bam is movable. If Herro starts season well, you can bet under the radar the Heat will see what a package of Duncan + Herro can get.
I wouldn't be shocked if sometime in the next 2 seasons one or both of them are moved. I think Duncan is way more likely to happen.
We are in win now. Whether you like or not, the FO is not reluctant to trade young players who are not stars for a better chance to win just gotta like at Winslow and J Rich
Players can always get traded from a team looking to improve. Not sure why you are singling out these 2 players specifically (Herro/DRob). The Heat will have cap space in the coming seasons and if they do look to trade for a whale they will look at all their options. If Butler struggles this year he may get traded as the Heat pivot to Herro. Anything can happen. BTW Winslow was struggling mightily to live up to expectations and JRich was a marginal 2nd round draft pick at best. He played good defense but was inconsistent in all other aspects.
