Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc 4.0

Post #661 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 3:52 pm

This was interesting…

?s=21

Post #662 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 3:54 pm

?s=20

Predictable but an opportunity to pay homage to one of the GOAT big men whose versatility helped extend Kobe's title window, before bigs were really supposed to play like that.

Post #663 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 3:57 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:This was interesting…

Read on Twitter
?s=21

The Draymond gap is wild. That's 2k putting him head and shoulders above the media lists, right?

HornetJail · Post #664 » by **HornetJail** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 4:00 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:This was interesting…

Read on Twitter
?s=21

The Draymond gap is wild. That's 2k putting him head and shoulders above the media lists, right?

other way around, 2k is underrating him like crazy. the rest have him in the 28-37 range like he should be

parsnips33 · Post #665 » by **parsnips33** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 4:02 pm

MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:This was interesting…

Read on Twitter
?s=21

The Draymond gap is wild. That's 2k putting him head and shoulders above the media lists, right?

I think 2k has him way below the other lists which makes sense, his game doesn't translate well to video games really

Post #666 » by **MoneyTalks41890** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 4:04 pm

KEMBAtheMETEOR wrote:
MoneyTalks41890 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:This was interesting…

Read on Twitter
?s=21

The Draymond gap is wild. That's 2k putting him head and shoulders above the media lists, right?

other way around, 2k is underrating him like crazy. the rest have him in the 28-37 range like he should be

Thanks, I knew I wasn't reading that correctly.

Post #667 » by **zimpy27** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 5:16 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:This was interesting…

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Is there any way to use this as an objective ranking for trade value?

I have suggested that CJ and Siakam are a good trade in here and have been told I was way off on value by Raptor fans. Then you see the lists and CJ is comfortably ahead.

Post #668 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 6:31 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:This was interesting…

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Is there any way to use this as an objective ranking for trade value?

I have suggested that CJ and Siakam are a good trade in here and have been told I was way off on value by Raptor fans. Then you see the lists and CJ is comfortably ahead.

No. I definitely would not. Do you know what the perimeters were? Were contracts taken into account? Health? Age? Position? Actual impact or just PPG? Etc.

Post #669 » by **Texas Chuck** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 6:35 pm

yeah try to trade Chris Paul for Trae or Zion and see how far that gets you....

toooskies · Post #670 » by **toooskies** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 7:50 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:This was interesting…

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Is there any way to use this as an objective ranking for trade value?

I have suggested that CJ and Siakam are a good trade in here and have been told I was way off on value by Raptor fans. Then you see the lists and CJ is comfortably ahead.

First, you have to be careful. The ranking of players gets closer together the further down a ranking you go-- the 30th player in the NBA is a lot closer to performance to the 40th player than the 1st player is to the 10th. The 100th to the 110th would be near indistinguishable. So what you have are two pretty similar players.

Offensively, McCollum probably has a bit higher floor this year. But if Siakam shoots like he did in 2019 or 2020, he's right with McCollum in terms of TS% and he's already competitive otherwise offensively. He had a down shooting year after an upper body injury, so he probably didn't get to work on his shot all offseason last year. The narratives that he should improve are already there.

Siakam also plays better defense which subjective rankings tend to underrate. Particularly the gap from below-average to above-average, which is what we have with McCollum and Siakam.

But let's talk about the contract value. CJ and Siakam are projected (heavily influenced by last year's performances) to be pretty similar players in terms of 2021-22 performance. Assuming they follow standard age curves, you'd then expect Siakam to be as good or better than Siakam in 2022-23. And then clearly better in 2023-24. And then you have the bird rights to extend Siakam on his next contract in which case he's still in his late 20s, while CJ may not be an impact player on his next contract. So you'd much rather have Siakam, particularly if 2023/2024 performance matters more to you than 2022, which is definitely the case in Toronto.

TLDR:
McC ~= Siakam, based on projections
Offense: McC > Siakam last year, narratives say Siakam has more chance to improve
Defense: Siakam > McC
Age: Siakam > McC
Ceiling: Siakam > McC

So no way I'd see them as the same value. Same thing with other younger guys in that range-- the upside isn't there, so if you trade for him you'd better be in win-now mode and be counting on his near-term floor. Which makes him a much better fit in Philly if Portland trades him.

Post #671 » by **zimpy27** » Tue Oct 5, 2021 7:56 pm

Scoot McGroot wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:This was interesting…

Read on Twitter
?s=21

Is there any way to use this as an objective ranking for trade value?

I have suggested that CJ and Siakam are a good trade in here and have been told I was way off on value by Raptor fans. Then you see the lists and CJ is comfortably ahead.

No. I definitely would not. Do you know what the perimeters were? Were contracts taken into account? Health? Age? Position? Actual impact or just PPG? Etc.

Well the ranks are purely how good they are as players right now and expect to be this season.

I don't mean only measure of trade value, you'd have to take into account contract, age, health as well. Those things are objective already. What isn't objective is how good a player is. I find that's the biggest disagreement point on here

Post #672 » by **bondom34** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 12:53 am

Read on Twitter

?t=imprASlOLaH_hDoHXSFaTg&s=19

Post #673 » by **bondom34** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 12:53 am

Read on Twitter

?t=Oqono_I4l76BUlHH_stSrw&s=19

Post #674 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 12:57 am

bondom34 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?t=imprASlOLaH_hDoHXSFaTg&s=19

Not sure I understand the wording of that tweet. Not sure what choice they have unless they trade him which seems unlikely or try and have his contract voided in some fashion?

Post #675 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 1:03 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
bondom34 wrote:

Read on Twitter
?t=imprASlOLaH_hDoHXSFaTg&s=19

Not sure I understand the wording of that tweet. Not sure what choice they have unless they trade him which seems unlikely or try and have his contract voided in some fashion?

I'm guessing they could either try and get him to sit out the whole year and stay home, rather than coming in and out of the lineup?

Or, any chance they try and convince the commissioner to place him on some leave list?

Post #676 » by **Texas Chuck** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 1:07 am

Scoot McGroot wrote:I'm guessing they could either try and get him to sit out the whole year and stay home, rather than coming in and out of the lineup?

Or, any chance they try and convince the commissioner to place him on some leave list?

Yeah its crazy to think that it seems logical to me to simply tell him to stay away at this point rather than be a part-time player and a giant ongoing distraction. But KD/Harden and role players is a championship level team even without him.

Rarely do I think a player of his caliber is just not worth the trouble, but man this guy feels not worth the trouble. He's a very talented offensive player who can do things nobody else can do, but.....

Post #677 » by **jbk1234** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 1:14 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I'm guessing they could either try and get him to sit out the whole year and stay home, rather than coming in and out of the lineup?

Or, any chance they try and convince the commissioner to place him on some leave list?

Yeah its crazy to think that it seems logical to me to simply tell him to stay away at this point rather than be a part-time player and a giant ongoing distraction. But KD/Harden and role players is a championship level team even without him.

Rarely do I think a player of his caliber is just not worth the trouble, but man this guy feels not worth the trouble. He's a very talented offensive player who can do things nobody else can do, but.....

All of this, and it's been going on for longer than people realize.

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Post #678 » by **Scoot McGroot** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 1:16 am

Texas Chuck wrote:
Scoot McGroot wrote:I'm guessing they could either try and get him to sit out the whole year and stay home, rather than coming in and out of the lineup?

Or, any chance they try and convince the commissioner to place him on some leave list?

Yeah its crazy to think that it seems logical to me to simply tell him to stay away at this point rather than be a part-time player and a giant ongoing distraction. But KD/Harden and role players is a championship level team even without him.

Rarely do I think a player of his caliber is just not worth the trouble, but man this guy feels not worth the trouble. He's a very talented offensive player who can do things nobody else can do, but.....

Yup. We've seen guys in this league that were talented, but not worth the trouble...but I don't think we've ever seen anyone this talented in that regard. Even if Brooklyn tries to keep him around and he only practices/plays in away games, how many games is he also likely to miss due to covid issues or even just because?

Post #679 » by **VCfor3** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 1:16 am

If they do decide to accommodate then do they try to not have home court advantage in order to have him 4 out of 7 games in a playoff series? Half joking half serious ha.

At some point I think KD gets through to him but we will see. BKN kind of has their back against the wall. Trading him would be tough and if it leaks that he is being shopped it would hurt team chemistry. Think you live by the Kyrie, die by the Kyrie if you are BKN.

HornetJail · Post #680 » by **HornetJail** » Wed Oct 6, 2021 1:18 am

I honestly don't think Kyrie cares about the regular season. He should know full well Harden+KD and company can make it the whole season without him if they had to. My guess is he bites the bullet and gets vaccinated in March or something and comes up with some eccentric BS reason why, but it's really so it doesn't interfere with the playoffs, but who knows with him.

Just glad it's not my franchise player