PG: The Scottie Barnes Experience

[HumbleRen]

Personally, I like Green over Cade but I just don't see Piston pivoting off Cade because of summer league games.

[720]

What are you basing this on?

Care to be a little more in depth?

Don't get me wrong Green is a great scorer, makes it look easy and his ability to finish while getting contact in the lane is amazing for his skinny build. His speed and athleticism is something Cade does not possess. Cade is in a tough spot in Detroit where they're forcing him to share ball handling duties with Killian Hayes and overall has a lot less talent around him than say Green in Houston.

Cade is a scorer that can put up points in many ways (post ups, pull ups in the mid range, three pointers, etc), he is the better passer and defender as well. There is this gravity with Cade that's hard to explain. In college Cade would routinely take and make the tough shots his team needed, not even exaggerating in that he would often face double and triple teams and still figured out ways to get points up on the board. He's a dynamic tall point guard. Sure he doesn't have the speed or athleticism like a lot of guards but he makes up for it with his ball handling and size which opens up a lot of scoring.

Green is probably ROY with his scoring ability. Cade imo is the player with better potential and with development and talent around him he's going to be great in the future.

See my post to Los_29

I think Green will shoot up like a rocket and imo likely has the higher peak than Cade (future scoring champion) but also has a much higher chance of burning out faster once his athleticism fades.

This obviously changes if Cade can get a reliable unstoppable shot which is possible with his ISO skills. (and yes, i'm aware of Cade's clutch factor, i'm just not sure it puts him ahead of Green for me. If he starts shooting like Kyrie than this all changes as a 6"6 - 6"8, whatever Cade's height is Kyrie is an interesting player indeed.)

I just have doubts Cade will reach Kyrie's level of scoring. But who knows.


As for Cade as a PG, i'm labelling him a SG until he drastically limits his turnovers. The guy does not have a good A/TO ratio what so ever.

Cade's defense will probably be closer to the net as his lack of athleticism won't be much of a burden there defensively and he can use his height.

And yes, outside of Green's scoring what else can he do? It's just that his level of scoring coming into the draft seems extremely rare. We'll see how it translates to the NBA level.

It's hard for me to label guys early, I haven't even done it with Scottie or Suggs either who were in our range (only thing I said was Barnes seems to have a higher ceiling and Suggs has the higher floor but nothing about their roles in the future) but your prediction that Green could one day be a scoring champ seems possible. It looks natural to him.

For me Cade just has all the intangibles of a winning player. In college for example you would routinely see him orchestrate on defense and offense. Telling guys where to go what to do (very much like Barnes). He can see plays develop ahead of time unlike Green who struggles to make the second read if his first read fails on offense. Even with his lack of athleticism he still finds ways to create space to score and in general he is a high IQ player.

I think both guys can be great players if injuries and other stuff out off their hands (roster construction) go their way. But I do prefer Cade.

[Vampirate]

Don't get me wrong Green is a great scorer, makes it look easy and his ability to finish while getting contact in the lane is amazing for his skinny build. His speed and athleticism is something Cade does not possess. Cade is in a tough spot in Detroit where they're forcing him to share ball handling duties with Killian Hayes and overall has a lot less talent around him than say Green in Houston.

Cade is a scorer that can put up points in many ways (post ups, pull ups in the mid range, three pointers, etc), he is the better passer and defender as well. There is this gravity with Cade that's hard to explain. In college Cade would routinely take and make the tough shots his team needed, not even exaggerating in that he would often face double and triple teams and still figured out ways to get points up on the board. He's a dynamic tall point guard. Sure he doesn't have the speed or athleticism like a lot of guards but he makes up for it with his ball handling and size which opens up a lot of scoring.

Green is probably ROY with his scoring ability. Cade imo is the player with better potential and with development and talent around him he's going to be great in the future.

See my post to Los_29

I think Green will shoot up like a rocket and imo likely has the higher peak than Cade (future scoring champion) but also has a much higher chance of burning out faster once his athleticism fades.

This obviously changes if Cade can get a reliable unstoppable shot which is possible with his ISO skills. (and yes, i'm aware of Cade's clutch factor, i'm just not sure it puts him ahead of Green for me. If he starts shooting like Kyrie than this all changes as a 6"6 - 6"8, whatever Cade's height is Kyrie is an interesting player indeed.)

I just have doubts Cade will reach Kyrie's level of scoring. But who knows.


As for Cade as a PG, i'm labelling him a SG until he drastically limits his turnovers. The guy does not have a good A/TO ratio what so ever.

Cade's defense will probably be closer to the net as his lack of athleticism won't be much of a burden there defensively and he can use his height.

And yes, outside of Green's scoring what else can he do? It's just that his level of scoring coming into the draft seems extremely rare. We'll see how it translates to the NBA level.

It's hard for me to label guys early, I haven't even done it with Scottie or Suggs either who were in our range (only thing I said was Barnes seems to have a higher ceiling and Suggs has the higher floor but nothing about their roles in the future) but your prediction that Green could one day be a scoring champ seems possible. It looks natural to him.

For me Cade just has all the intangibles for a winning player. In college for example you would routinely see him orchestrate on defense and offense. Telling guys where to go what to do (very much like Barnes). He can see plays develop ahead of time unlike Green who struggles to make the second read if his first read fails on offense. Even with his lack of athleticism he still finds ways to create space to score and in general he is a high IQ player.

I think both guys can be great players if injuries and other stuff out off their hands (roster construction) go their way. But I do prefer Cade.

Going to another of the top 5 picks.

It'll be interesting to see how Mobley develops, the guy has a low floor but the ceiling of a 2 way monster.

Mobley is one of the few players who can just straight up shoot it over you and constantly has a good look at the basket.

[720]

See my post to Los_29

I think Green will shoot up like a rocket and imo likely has the higher peak than Cade (future scoring champion) but also has a much higher chance of burning out faster once his athleticism fades.

This obviously changes if Cade can get a reliable unstoppable shot which is possible with his ISO skills. (and yes, i'm aware of Cade's clutch factor, i'm just not sure it puts him ahead of Green for me. If he starts shooting like Kyrie than this all changes as a 6"6 - 6"8, whatever Cade's height is Kyrie is an interesting player indeed.)

I just have doubts Cade will reach Kyrie's level of scoring. But who knows.


As for Cade as a PG, i'm labelling him a SG until he drastically limits his turnovers. The guy does not have a good A/TO ratio what so ever.

Cade's defense will probably be closer to the net as his lack of athleticism won't be much of a burden there defensively and he can use his height.

And yes, outside of Green's scoring what else can he do? It's just that his level of scoring coming into the draft seems extremely rare. We'll see how it translates to the NBA level.

It's hard for me to label guys early, I haven't even done it with Scottie or Suggs either who were in our range (only thing I said was Barnes seems to have a higher ceiling and Suggs has the higher floor but nothing about their roles in the future) but your prediction that Green could one day be a scoring champ seems possible. It looks natural to him.

For me Cade just has all the intangibles for a winning player. In college for example you would routinely see him orchestrate on defense and offense. Telling guys where to go what to do (very much like Barnes). He can see plays develop ahead of time unlike Green who struggles to make the second read if his first read fails on offense. Even with his lack of athleticism he still finds ways to create space to score and in general he is a high IQ player.

I think both guys can be great players if injuries and other stuff out off their hands (roster construction) go their way. But I do prefer Cade.

Going to another of the top 5 picks.

It'll be interesting to see how Mobley develops, the guy has a low floor but the ceiling of a 2 way monster.

Mobley is one of the few players who can just straight up shoot it over you and constantly has a good look at the basket.

Mobley in our system would be a monster. Sucks he went to Cleveland. He probably is going to be special some day but atm he's struggling to post up Caruso and Lonzo. lol

[Mikistan]

[akakalakin]

wow 13 pts no 3's leaves me breathless. not **** but others were better

[-Blitz-]

Barnes looked great. The one thing i did notice though is that hes kind of slow. Maybe he just needs to get his conditioning up but I expected him to be way more explosive.

Also I think you could tell Fred didn't like Barnes showboating stuff. He kept mentioning if your gonna do that you better back it up. So well see how Barnes progresses but its been promising so far.

[Raps in 4]

Green 8 points on 2-7 shooting right now, -2. These other rooks getting exposed.

[PD28]

Barnes looked great. The one thing i did notice though is that hes kind of slow. Maybe he just needs to get his conditioning up but I expected him to be way more explosive.

Also I think you could tell Fred didn't like Barnes showboating stuff. He kept mentioning if your gonna do that you better back it up. So well see how Barnes progresses but its been promising so far.

Ya the FVV presser showed some shade imo. You were drafted for your athleticism, like where was it lol

[720]

Kispert looking like a washed role player already.

[HumbleRen]

Barnes looked great. The one thing i did notice though is that hes kind of slow. Maybe he just needs to get his conditioning up but I expected him to be way more explosive.

Also I think you could tell Fred didn't like Barnes showboating stuff. He kept mentioning if your gonna do that you better back it up. So well see how Barnes progresses but its been promising so far.

Has the transition speed of a guard but the speed of a power forward in the half court lol.

[Mikistan]

Barnes looked great. The one thing i did notice though is that hes kind of slow. Maybe he just needs to get his conditioning up but I expected him to be way more explosive.

Also I think you could tell Fred didn't like Barnes showboating stuff. He kept mentioning if your gonna do that you better back it up. So well see how Barnes progresses but its been promising so far.

Ya the FVV presser showed some shade imo. You were drafted for your athleticism, like where was it lol

he was just teasing Scottie because FVV finally threw a non-trash alley oop pass but it still didnt result in a dunk.

Spoiler:

and FVV is just jealous because he can't dunk, and Scottie has a better friendship with Dragic than Fred

[nobay]

It's pre-season. But I really like this squad Masai/Bobby have put together. Scottie looks good as advertised with his playmaking, defense and energy off the charts. I can see a legit Bench Mob 2.0 forming with just incredible length/athleticism leading to lots of transition scores. I remember how it felt when the Bench Mob was created and how fun it was to watch them change the dynamic of the game through hustle, heart and a joy to play with each other. Rexdale has so much intriguing potential. He needs his reps with the 905 but could end up being super valuable for this team in 2-3 years. I don't have high expectations for the team, but this team will be super fun to watch with the right expectations.

[Boogie!]

:oops:

Precious
Siakam
OG
Barnes
VV

I think this will be the starting lineup by the end of the year.

That should be the starting lineup at the beginning of the year... it at least has to be a potential closing lineup...

Only thing is I'd maybe bring achiuwa off the bench because he looks like the next siakam and he can help run bench mob 3.0

Fvv/flynn
Barnes/Trent
Og/yuta
Siakam/achiuwa
Boucher/birch

If banton keeps playing well he and Flynn might even be interchangeable. Depends on if you need more shooting or not.

Honestly Goran is odd man out here. I realize he's an experienced but I'd rather go big and develop young guys. Hopefully we can get a nice deal for him soon.

I am surprised you don't have Mykhailiuk who played like the top 3 guys on our team tonight.
And I don't see Banton in the 905 that long, he needs to tighten his handling (and shooting), but I think his impact against bench players are obvious, meaning he will be too good to be in the 905.

VanVleet/Dragic/Flynn
Mykhailiuk/Trent/Banton
OG/Watanabe
Siakam/Barnes
Birch/Boucher/Achiuwa

Our turning point would be Barnes able to shoot the ball. Meanwhile, the length and size of our bench will kill teams.

lol i forgot about svi... were too deep, too many players not enough minutes... maybe we end up trading for a superstar lol.

[Boogie!]

Barnes looked great. The one thing i did notice though is that hes kind of slow. Maybe he just needs to get his conditioning up but I expected him to be way more explosive.

Also I think you could tell Fred didn't like Barnes showboating stuff. He kept mentioning if your gonna do that you better back it up. So well see how Barnes progresses but its been promising so far.

honestly who cares what fred likes... needs to shoot the ball better, make better passes and be more efficient for it to matter...

in regards to barnes, the one thing i noticed is he actually doesnt seem very lockdown 1 on 1... it seems like for whatever reason, he doesn't get that low in his stance, (maybe its his physiology) and he doesnt seem very quick laterally... og is a much better 1 on 1 defender... hes also not very explosive or quick off his feet, hes better with a running start... but he definitely doesnt look like hes the type of athlete to consistently poster guys... hes nowhere close to giannis in that regard...

where he does shine is his overall defensive instincts... he seems to always be in the right spot, his rotations are good and he just has a high basketball iq... even as a rookie he rarely seems lost and somehow seems to always be involved in the possession even when hes not scoring. but with more reps at game speed, i expect his instincts will allow him to anchor the defense despite his lack of foot speed... offensively, if he just develops a reasonable catch and shoot 3, hell be fine... his playmaking is already near elite and his handles are decent... worst case scenario is hes an elite role player, but honestly, even as a rookie he looks to be at that level already... guys that are this raw offensively, in terms of scoring ability usually take a while to develop and are usually high bust potential, but the fact that he has such an intangible impact means that hes pretty bust proof.

[Bruin]

So far 4 of the top 5 picks have debuted and Scottie has looked the best. Obviously a 1 game sample size is nothing but still nice

[TheRealDeal]

The Raptors are so fun to play with in 2K this year. They are a tier 3 team (for now) after years of being in tier 1 so the competition is week

They also made helping in the paint to contest shots so much easier…it’s next to impossible to get clean looks at the rim against us

[everdiso]

Gm1 Per36

S.Barnes 18.9pts (60.0%), 13.1rb (5.8off), 8.7ast (5.8to), 2.9st, 2.9bk
E.Mobley 16.5pts (42.9%), 13.2rb (1.7off), 0.0ast (1.7to), 1.7st, 3.3bk
J.Suggs 15.4pts (27.3%), 6.8rb (0.0off), 5.1ast (3.4to), 0.0st, 3.4bk
J.Green 14.6pts (28.6%), 6.1rb (1.2off), 2.4ast (0.0to), 0.0st, 0.0bk

[PT416]

wow 13 pts no 3's leaves me breathless. not **** but others were better

hey guys I found someone who's never played basketball

[Bruin]

wow 13 pts no 3's leaves me breathless. not **** but others were better

hey guys I found someone who's never played basketball

I guess guys like Shaq and Giannis aren’t impressive to him either