If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade)

[MrDollarBills]

he is not in the right.

of course he is in the right. its his choice. he doesnt live in a communist country. he is breaking 0 laws and following 100% of regulations and protocols.

He's the only person on the team unvaccinated without a medical reason for being so.

And Rosa parks was the only person to refuse to get out of her seat. "every one else is doing it" is no excuse to remove someones freedom of choice

He's absolutely selfish and doesn't care about his teammates, his own safety, or the aspirations of this team in general.

No, he isnt selfish. YOU ARE. you want a grown man to give up his freedom so that your sports team can do better. All without know JACK SH*T about his reasons why or even that he doesnt plan to do so after potentially exhausting other options. he is following all of the safety protocols. i dont want to hear this nonsense about "Safety".

the odds of someone vaccinated getting a breakthrough infection from someone tested multiple times daily, quarantining with strict contact tracing, masks, social distancing, etc is almost zero. The odds of someone vaccinated having a breakthrough infection and having complications is also extremely low.

You're going to compare Rosa Parks refusing to move to the back of the bus for white passengers during the civil rights movement to Kyrie being compelled to comply with a public health mandate during a pandemic that has killed 700,000 people in this country? What is wrong with you?

Now I understand why you said f*ck Kareem Abdul Jabbar the other day. You literally, as a white man, have no grasp, respect, or idea about what Black people faced back during the civil rights movement...or what we face now, if you're taking the side of an absolute buffoon who rejects science and safety in favor of conspiracies about Satan wanting to vaccinate Black people for evil purposes. The nonsense that Kyrie is perpetuating is KILLING MY PEOPLE. How do you not understand this??

You told on yourself the other day, and you're telling on yourself now dude.

[Prokorov]

You're going to compare Rosa Parks refusing to move to the back of the bus for white passengers during the civil rights movement to Kyrie being compelled to comply with a public health mandate during a pandemic that has killed 700,000 people in this country? What is wrong with you?

Kyrie is complying. their is no mandate to be vaccinated. their is only a mandate preventing freedom of movement of unvaccinated citiziens. Kyrie didnt go to practice, he is following the mandate.

Now I understand why you said f*ck Kareem Abdul Jabbar the other day. You literally, as a white man, have no grasp, respect, or idea about what Black people faced back during the civil rights movement...or what we face now, if you're taking the side of an absolute buffoon who rejects science and safety in favor of conspiracies about Satan wanting to vaccinate Black people for evil purposes.

complete nonsense and drivel. satan? WTF are you talking about. stop drinking the cool aid.

You told on yourself the other day, and you're telling on yourself now dude.

Telling on myself? F*CK outta here bro. For being honest about my life and things i was ignorant at while im younger? And trying to be better as im enlightened?

You are showing your true colors bailing on humanity and taking americans rights away so that your team can win more games

[Pablo Escobar]

If he isn't going to show up the ownership might as well trade him. Not sure why they coddle Kyrie so much tbh he isn't good enough to be worth this headache. Simmons would help your defense but he needs the ball in his hands and James is the pg and isn't as good being an off ball player. And of course with Simmons lack of care for improving on the offensive end it'd cause issues in the playoffs when it slows down and teams sag off him.

[harlem_ball]

Awful fit. allows teams to double team KD for 48 minutes. he is the opposite of what the nets need.

Simmons would improve the defense dramatically and, ahem, you also have James MVP Harden and Mills. C'mon, man. Do you even know basketball?

Defense was not an issue last year. we were 5th in opponent FG% allowed. We gave up points more because of turnovers/points off turnovers and 2nd chance points. Those are mostly focus (turnovers) and effort (rebounding). Both were taken care of in the playoffs, where our D was outstanding.

MEanwhile, we struggled offensively once kyrie went down

Kyrie absolutely balled last year, no doubt. You bring up a solid rebuttal but I still think Simmons can improve a team's team defense. Mills and a healthy Harden should help tremendously this year in the absence of Kyrie offensively.

[mcscotty]

Thank you for your service. You have done an amazing job.


Also, that guy is an antivaxxer trying to push horse sh*t. Pay him no mind.

I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I've got a Hep B, DPT, and HPV vaccine. I had Covid. Wasn't bad at all. I probably get flu/covid vaccines when I get older. Just glad I live in a country that doesn't vilify and discriminate against people that don't get vaccines. It's not warranted.

You can't use your anecdotal evidence and extrapolate it to everyone. Good for you, COVID didn't hit you that hard.

That doesn't mean it's not hitting A LOT of people hard. We don't vilify and discriminate against people that don't get vaccines. We vilify and discriminate people that don't get vaccines without a good reason and are just scientifically illiterate. IMO, that's totally warranted. They're creating a public safety issue with their ignorance, and they clearly don't want to know better, because the information is readily available to anyone that cares to look.

Stupid people should be vilified. That's the biggest issue with the country lately. We give credence to everyone's opinions, even if their opinion is "water isn't wet". No matter how inaccurate, as long as they attach "in my opinion" before everything they say, we're under some obligation to give them validation for it.

Nah, people should be afraid of the public ridicule when they say stupid, anti-scientific things.

Seems a lot of science is being ignored when it comes to natural immunity. Research coming out of Israel and Asia is suggesting it is 10x-25X more robust than the antibodies produced by the vaccine. It could be our most effective weapon. It has billions of years of evidence behind it. Even in recent history. Pfizer or Moderna didn't get rid of the Spanish flu. Seems people like to hide behind the word science, while ignoring it. And for you to say people aren't being vilified and discriminated against is asinine. People are being fired from their jobs and aren't even allowed to enter many public establishments.

[MrDollarBills]

Now I understand why you said f*ck Kareem Abdul Jabbar the other day. You literally, as a white man, have no grasp, respect, or idea about what Black people faced back during the civil rights movement...or what we face now, if you're taking the side of an absolute buffoon who rejects science and safety in favor of conspiracies about Satan wanting to vaccinate Black people for evil purposes.

complete nonsense and drivel. satan? WTF are you talking about. stop drinking the cool aid.

So you're going to be obtuse now?

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/nba-anti-vaxxers-covid-1231988/

Irving, who serves as a vice president on the executive committee of the players’ union, recently started following and liking Instagram posts from a conspiracy theorist who claims that “secret societies” are implanting vaccines in a plot to connect Black people to a master computer for “a plan of Satan.” This Moderna microchip misinformation campaign has spread across multiple NBA locker rooms and group chats, according to several of the dozen-plus current players, Hall-of-Famers, league executives, arena workers and virologists interviewed for this story over the past week.

Irving is a known conspiracy theorist. He believes that the earth is flat and that someone is trying to microchip him via a vaccine. You know this, you're just trying to play dumb. Whatever dude. We can argue about this til we're blue in the face, the fact remains is that Kyrie clearly has issues and some serious paranoia if he's believing this insanity, and the fact that it is impacting his work life says to me that he needs to seek help from a medical professional.

Either way, this situation is coming to a head. You want to infantilize Kyrie like he's some special child, by all means, continue to do so. I'm under no obligation do the same. I've had it with antivaxxers to the point where I don't give a damn if they can't work or go to a gym, they are enabling a public health threat to rage on and don't care about the safety of themselves and others. At this point, he can either stay home all season or retire, idgaf. People with this attitude make me sick and it's clear that they didn't lose anyone loved ones to the virus.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I've got a Hep B, DPT, and HPV vaccine. I had Covid. Wasn't bad at all. I probably get flu/covid vaccines when I get older. Just glad I live in a country that doesn't vilify and discriminate against people that don't get vaccines. It's not warranted.

You can't use your anecdotal evidence and extrapolate it to everyone. Good for you, COVID didn't hit you that hard.

That doesn't mean it's not hitting A LOT of people hard. We don't vilify and discriminate against people that don't get vaccines. We vilify and discriminate people that don't get vaccines without a good reason and are just scientifically illiterate. IMO, that's totally warranted. They're creating a public safety issue with their ignorance, and they clearly don't want to know better, because the information is readily available to anyone that cares to look.

Stupid people should be vilified. That's the biggest issue with the country lately. We give credence to everyone's opinions, even if their opinion is "water isn't wet". No matter how inaccurate, as long as they attach "in my opinion" before everything they say, we're under some obligation to give them validation for it.

Nah, people should be afraid of the public ridicule when they say stupid, anti-scientific things.

Seems a lot of science is being ignored when it comes to natural immunity. Research coming out of Israel and Asia is suggesting it is 10x-25X more robust than the antibodies produced by the vaccine. It could be our most effective weapon. It has billions of years of evidence behind it. Even in recent history. Pfizer or Moderna didn't get rid of the Spanish flu. Seems people like to hide behind the word science, while ignoring it. And for you to say people aren't being vilified and discriminated against is asinine. People are being fired from their jobs and aren't even allowed to enter many public establishments.

Please take your antivax propaganda back to the Lakers forum. Over 83,000+ people in New York and New Jersey have died from this virus, there is a good reason why vaccines are being mandated in the city. You are being utterly disrespectful.

You had covid and survived? Lucky you. I know someone who had it and he's in the ground. Piss off dude.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

[harlem_ball]

Read on Twitter

Well, duh.

[TheNetsFan]

Sekou doesn't open up another roster spot. We now have one last two way contract spot left for guys that are already here.

I think that the Nets need to indefinitely suspend Kyrie until he makes a decision, because he's not serious about winning a championship and he's just wasting people's time with his conspiracy theories and pseudoscience nonsense.

So Sekou was simply traded for saving money? Is there a way to replace Kyrie using our trade exception going forward knowing he won’t be playing?

He would need to retire honestly but I'll let TheNetsFan break all of that down.

Who knows. Based on him being suspended for in market games & losing salary, most believed it would follow other suspensions & the team would get tax savings. The league explicitly said no tax savings. Given the uniqueness of the situation it's hard to tell.

A club is also permitted to add a 16th man to its regular season roster if it has a player on the suspended list. A player who is suspended by his team for four or more games may be placed on the suspended list following the third game of his ban, while a player suspended by the NBA for six or more games can be placed on the suspended list following the fifth game of his ban. Teams can’t make use of the suspended list for shorter suspensions.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/12/hoops-rumors-glossary-nba-roster-limits.html

Assuming the Nets are allowed to suspend him until fully vaccinated, they should be able to open up a roster spot. The other option would be if the league granted a hardship exception, but that's unlikley given his ability to be in & out of the line-up.

[Gooner]

Kyrie will become a legend if he perseveres with this. This is not about anti vax or any other propaganda, it's about freedom. I knew Wiggins was gonna fold, but Kyrie is one of the few real people in the entertainment industry. He will be rewarded for this by God himself, on and off the court.

[Sharcm1]

Can we please keep these discussions about basketball. In the end I think if he doesn’t get vaccinated and is unable to play in Barclays then he should be traded. We can’t go all season without hi, practicing and playing in home games. We can’t go into the playoffs without him playing more than half those games. It’s too much of a disruption to the entire team. The whole narrative the entire season will be about Irving not playing.

He has every right not to get vaccinated. But the nets also have the right to trade him. Or potentially void his contract which I doubt they do. Wiggins said he didn’t have a choice. Which is wrong he did have a choice. He chose to continue to play basketball and get paid. That was his choice. Same goes for kyrie. Wiggins however seemed to be more motivated by money.

[MGrand15]

I find it hard to believe trade talks ever got close to the point where Kyrie would threaten retirement.

If you've read Cant Knock The Hustle, one of the standout things about the Nets organization is that they've been incredibly patient and trusting with Kyrie. He would go radio silent on them and they were OK with waiting it out. When he had his shoulder issues his first year, he went shopping around for holistic alternate medicine type doctors - they trusted he would eventually get the surgery from the doctor the Nets recommended. So I doubt they ever picked up the phone and discussed trades. They most likely trusted getting together with the team would make him change his mind.

At this point though, he's threatening to miss 41 games, every single home practice, half the playoffs. That's not sustainable - especially not for a championship team. I think his future here completely depends on KD + Harden. Once they get upset about this situation - and they will - I wouldn't be shocked if we move on quickly. Whether he decides to retire or we move him for a couple of solid players - IDK.

KD will never "get upset about the situation". He would do the same thing if he didnt want to get the vaccine. and being empowered to make his own choices is what KD is all about. its not like he is just now finding out that this is who Kyrie is. He is Kyrie's #1 supporter. and its not just KD its all the nets and the majority of the NBA. Kyrie takes all the punches so others dont have to.

He can continue to have love and respect for Kyrie while being upset at the situation. He can support Kyrie personally and not want to deal with him professionally. Things change.

[haosmoove]

You're going to compare Rosa Parks refusing to move to the back of the bus for white passengers during the civil rights movement to Kyrie being compelled to comply with a public health mandate during a pandemic that has killed 700,000 people in this country? What is wrong with you?

Kyrie is complying. their is no mandate to be vaccinated. their is only a mandate preventing freedom of movement of unvaccinated citiziens. Kyrie didnt go to practice, he is following the mandate.

Now I understand why you said f*ck Kareem Abdul Jabbar the other day. You literally, as a white man, have no grasp, respect, or idea about what Black people faced back during the civil rights movement...or what we face now, if you're taking the side of an absolute buffoon who rejects science and safety in favor of conspiracies about Satan wanting to vaccinate Black people for evil purposes.

complete nonsense and drivel. satan? WTF are you talking about. stop drinking the cool aid.

You told on yourself the other day, and you're telling on yourself now dude.

Telling on myself? F*CK outta here bro. For being honest about my life and things i was ignorant at while im younger? And trying to be better as im enlightened?

You are showing your true colors bailing on humanity and taking americans rights away so that your team can win more games

This is getting out of control now. If we didn't know Prok any better, we would think he's racist on the low. All you are doing here is grouping anti-vax people with African American, this is a total BS. When you make these outlandish statements, people will get angry at you, at anti-vax, and colored people by association. When in fact that shouldn't happen, the anti-vax (not vax hesitant) crowd is a small percentage of our population and they don't represent a color or other demographic.

This is a basketball forum, we are discussing what is best for our team. The fact that Kyrie didn't break any law doesn't exempt him from the fans' opinions that the team is better off trading him. Heck, Sekou didn't break any laws why was he let go? Joe didn't break the law, why were some fans calling for his head last playoffs? Simmons didn't break any law, why is he being scrutinized right now?

It doesn't matter how you put it, if Kyrie doesn't comply with the mandate, he won't be available for the Nets. From the latest rumors we heard, the team is considering letting him stay away from the team to not create preferential treatment just for him. This potentially means he's of zero value to the Nets on-court. It's one thing to be injured and unable to play, but he's not and he may be of value to other teams. It may be our and possibly his best interest to work out a trade.

[haosmoove]

I find it hard to believe trade talks ever got close to the point where Kyrie would threaten retirement.

If you've read Cant Knock The Hustle, one of the standout things about the Nets organization is that they've been incredibly patient and trusting with Kyrie. He would go radio silent on them and they were OK with waiting it out. When he had his shoulder issues his first year, he went shopping around for holistic alternate medicine type doctors - they trusted he would eventually get the surgery from the doctor the Nets recommended. So I doubt they ever picked up the phone and discussed trades. They most likely trusted getting together with the team would make him change his mind.

At this point though, he's threatening to miss 41 games, every single home practice, half the playoffs. That's not sustainable - especially not for a championship team. I think his future here completely depends on KD + Harden. Once they get upset about this situation - and they will - I wouldn't be shocked if we move on quickly. Whether he decides to retire or we move him for a couple of solid players - IDK.

KD will never "get upset about the situation". He would do the same thing if he didnt want to get the vaccine. and being empowered to make his own choices is what KD is all about. its not like he is just now finding out that this is who Kyrie is. He is Kyrie's #1 supporter. and its not just KD its all the nets and the majority of the NBA. Kyrie takes all the punches so others dont have to.

He can continue to have love and respect for Kyrie while being upset at the situation. He can support Kyrie personally and not want to deal with him professionally. Things change.

Agreed. Prok's argument is based on a premise that may not be true. "KD will support Kyrie because staying with the Nets and unable to play on-court is Kyrie's best interest." If this turns out to not be the case, should KD push the team to deal Kyrie to another team?

[harlem_ball]

I find it funny that you are all trying to analyze what's going on in a players head as if you were inside of it. Fact is, as a fan you have no idea what any player is thinking about anything, especially concerning relationships with other players. Stick to the facts please.

This thread is not about whether people should get vaxxed.
This thread is not about how any player feels about another player or their relationship with them.
This thread is not about political views over vaccinating.

Theres a world of internet already discussing most of the repetitive issues in this thread in much finer detail...

This thread is about who Kyrie should be traded for and if the trade works from a basketball standpoint.

[BigO]

I find it funny that you are all trying to analyze what's going on in a players head as if you were inside of it. Fact is, as a fan you have no idea what any player is thinking about anything, especially concerning relationships with other players. Stick to the facts please.

This thread is not about whether people should get vaxxed.
This thread is not about how any player feels about another player or their relationship with them.
This thread is not about political views over vaccinating.

Theres a world of internet already discussing most of the repetitive issues in this thread in much finer detail...

This thread is about who Kyrie should be traded for and if the trade works from a basketball standpoint.

You're right, except when people say outlandish stuff, like comparing this situation to Rosa Parks, it shouldn't be ignored.

In my opinion the NBA should mandate all players be vaccinated ( I know about the players union). Employers mandate a lot of stuff. There is no right to infect others. Kyrie has every right to not get vaccinated, as stupid as that is. But he has no constitutional right to a job which may infect others.
The Nets are clear favorites whether Kyrie plays or not. What I find the most interesting is whether this principled man will stick to his guns on his unprincipled position.
Wiggins has already caved. I predict Kyrie and every other player who risks losing a substantial amount of money, will also cave.

[harlem_ball]

I find it funny that you are all trying to analyze what's going on in a players head as if you were inside of it. Fact is, as a fan you have no idea what any player is thinking about anything, especially concerning relationships with other players. Stick to the facts please.

This thread is not about whether people should get vaxxed.
This thread is not about how any player feels about another player or their relationship with them.
This thread is not about political views over vaccinating.

Theres a world of internet already discussing most of the repetitive issues in this thread in much finer detail...

This thread is about who Kyrie should be traded for and if the trade works from a basketball standpoint.

You're right, except when people say outlandish stuff, like comparing this situation to Rosa Parks, it shouldn't be ignored.

In my opinion the NBA should mandate all players be vaccinated ( I know about the players union). Employers mandate a lot of stuff. There is no right to infect others. Kyrie has every right to not get vaccinated, as stupid as that is. But he has no constitutional right to a job which may infect others.
The Nets are clear favorites whether Kyrie plays or not. What I find the most interesting is whether this principled man will stick to his guns on his unprincipled position.
Wiggins has already caved. I predict Kyrie and every other player who risks losing a substantial amount of money, will also cave.

Heh, I ignore outlandish opinions every day. The world is full of outlandish opinions. Easily ignorable.



Will he cave? That's the entertaining part.

[harlem_ball]

Kyrie:

[ArksNetsSince99]

If Durant can’t get through to this guy no one will. The problem with his retirement threat the Nets trade value will be limited.

A pessimistic outlook. At the least, a struggling team will take a chance on Kyrie and dump salary at the same time. Win/Win

i would rather 0 games of kyrie then 82 of simmons. simmons is dog trash.

and KD doesnt need to "get through" to kyrie. This is exactly why he teamed up with Kyrie and they are so tight. player empowerment. not slaves.

Agree 100% on simmons part
This situation cannot be resolved by media and management, it’s about three grown up men Kai Kd and Harden sit in the same room and talk ,find the same priorities or part their ways due to disagreement, only then management should be involved
Thats how i view player empowerment and i truly hope and still believe Kai will remain a Brooklyn Net , cause he is a main reason we even have a conversation about championship team ,Nets Team