oreon wrote: I agree on Duncan but his contract is easily tradeable. This is a nice team but it's not good enough to beat Nets. I think Riley knows that. I don't think the FO think Duncan is a lifer. Everyone apart from Lowry, Butler and Bam is movable. If Herro starts season well, you can bet under the radar the Heat will see what a package of Duncan + Herro can get. I wouldn't be shocked if sometime in the next 2 seasons one or both of them are moved. I think Duncan is way more likely to happen. We are in win now. Whether you like or not, the FO is not reluctant to trade young players who are not stars for a better chance to win just gotta like at Winslow and J Rich
Players can always get traded from a team looking to improve. Not sure why you are singling out these 2 players specifically (Herro/DRob). The Heat will have cap space in the coming seasons and if they do look to trade for a whale they will look at all their options. If Butler struggles this year he may get traded as the Heat pivot to Herro. Anything can happen. BTW Winslow was struggling mightily to live up to expectations and JRich was a marginal 2nd round draft pick at best. He played good defense but was inconsistent in all other aspects.
Because literally they are the only tradeable pieces. Lowry, Bam and Butler are offlimits. The other players are minimum guys. So its those 2 plus PJ Tucker. Tucker only makes sense for a contender, another contender isn't going to give you a better player back. So if there's going to be a trade Duncan for sure will be involved. He's th And if that trade is for an allstar or borderline allstar player, Herro likely will be included. This isn't a disrespect to these players. They are tradeable because they are above average players, if they sucked no one would want them
harlem_ball wrote: Players can always get traded from a team looking to improve. Not sure why you are singling out these 2 players specifically (Herro/DRob). The Heat will have cap space in the coming seasons and if they do look to trade for a whale they will look at all their options. If Butler struggles this year he may get traded as the Heat pivot to Herro. Anything can happen. BTW Winslow was struggling mightily to live up to expectations and JRich was a marginal 2nd round draft pick at best. He played good defense but was inconsistent in all other aspects.
Because literally they are the only tradeable pieces. Lowry, Bam and Butler are offlimits. The other players are minimum guys. So its those 2 plus PJ Tucker. Tucker only makes sense for a contender, another contender isn't going to give you a better player back. So if there's going to be a trade Duncan for sure will be involved. He's th And if that trade is for an allstar or borderline allstar player, Herro likely will be included. This isn't a disrespect to these players. They are tradeable because they are above average players, if they sucked no one would want them
Off-limits? Says who?
They can't trade Butler. Once he forced his way here, Heat were married to him. Stars decide where they want to be. You want to be known as a star friendly team. If you just dump Butler, you are going to put off a lot of future stars from coming here. Your reputation as a FO matters. Players talk. If Heat never mend fences with Wade, Butler isn't here. And Lowry trade doesn't come here if Butler isn't the roster. So unless Butler comes out and says he wants out, Heat are stuck with him.
As for Lowry, you can't trade him without Butler's approval. They are best friends, so that's not happening.
And Bam is untradeable unless you are getting back a top 10 player back. But the Heat are not going to ever throw his name out in a trade talks. They need to manage that relationship because in a couple years he will be a FA. If he were to be moved, it would be sudden and it would be a for a top 10 player.
harlem_ball wrote: Players can always get traded from a team looking to improve. Not sure why you are singling out these 2 players specifically (Herro/DRob). The Heat will have cap space in the coming seasons and if they do look to trade for a whale they will look at all their options. If Butler struggles this year he may get traded as the Heat pivot to Herro. Anything can happen. BTW Winslow was struggling mightily to live up to expectations and JRich was a marginal 2nd round draft pick at best. He played good defense but was inconsistent in all other aspects.
Because literally they are the only tradeable pieces. Lowry, Bam and Butler are offlimits. The other players are minimum guys. So its those 2 plus PJ Tucker. Tucker only makes sense for a contender, another contender isn't going to give you a better player back. So if there's going to be a trade Duncan for sure will be involved. He's th And if that trade is for an allstar or borderline allstar player, Herro likely will be included. This isn't a disrespect to these players. They are tradeable because they are above average players, if they sucked no one would want them
Off-limits? Says who?
If Bam elipse 20 pts per this season I would be confident he is off limits. Butler is off limits as well. Expecting him to retire as a Heat. Lowry i believe is only off limits this season, similar treatment that Iggy got.
Remember trading a prime Lamar Odom and Caron Butler for Shaq? I do.
That said, I expect no one will get traded any time soon unless theres a bad fit or someone really struggles or the team struggles, even with Simmons out there and possibly Kyrie.
oreon wrote: I agree on Duncan but his contract is easily tradeable. This is a nice team but it's not good enough to beat Nets. I think Riley knows that. I don't think the FO think Duncan is a lifer. Everyone apart from Lowry, Butler and Bam is movable. If Herro starts season well, you can bet under the radar the Heat will see what a package of Duncan + Herro can get. I wouldn't be shocked if sometime in the next 2 seasons one or both of them are moved. I think Duncan is way more likely to happen. We are in win now. Whether you like or not, the FO is not reluctant to trade young players who are not stars for a better chance to win just gotta like at Winslow and J Rich
Players can always get traded from a team looking to improve. Not sure why you are singling out these 2 players specifically (Herro/DRob). The Heat will have cap space in the coming seasons and if they do look to trade for a whale they will look at all their options. If Butler struggles this year he may get traded as the Heat pivot to Herro. Anything can happen. BTW Winslow was struggling mightily to live up to expectations and JRich was a marginal 2nd round draft pick at best. He played good defense but was inconsistent in all other aspects.
Because literally they are the only tradeable pieces. Lowry, Bam and Butler are offlimits. The other players are minimum guys. So its those 2 plus PJ Tucker. Tucker only makes sense for a contender, another contender isn't going to give you a better player back. So if there's going to be a trade Duncan for sure will be involved. He's th And if that trade is for an allstar or borderline allstar player, Herro likely will be included. This isn't a disrespect to these players. They are tradeable because they are above average players, if they sucked no one would want them
Right.
Herro will be a RFA so there's team control over him for 3 to 7 years as of now. Robinson is on a 4+1 contract so there's team control over him.
Oladipo could be moved with his Bird rights but the team getting him couldn't control whether he leaves. He basically forced his way to Miami so if you don't keep him it's possible other higher level players who would have forced their way to Miami won't in future years. Also, if Miami doesn't pay Oladipo on what will probably be his last sizable contract, he'll just have to go elsewhere for more money and Miami may get nothing out of him while Houston still has the ability to swap Miami's 2022 pick with Brooklyn's 22 pick.
On Butler and Lowry, they fit great in Miami and both forced his way to Miami which moving him could cause issues with future higher level FAs like Oladipo's situation.
Robinson's value drops possibly greatly for Miami if he's moved to the bench for Oladipo or Herro to start at the 2 if either shows they should be a starter and I'd expect one of those guys to do that by next season.
In all the calculations of the roster construction to become a stronger contender, I wonder how many people actually know that Oladipo is barely 2 years older then Robinson?
harlem_ball wrote:Oh, says you guys. ok.
Remember trading a prime Lamar Odom and Caron Butler for Shaq? I do.
That said, I expect no one will get traded any time soon unless theres a bad fit or someone really struggles or the team struggles, even with Simmons out there and possibly Kyrie.
Sure, I don't expect to see any major trades until next offseason unless a bigtime player comes available like Beal which makes Miami feel ok going in to the tax this year(Miami's trying to stay out of the tax this year, hence only 14 of the 15 active spots taken up, and adding a guy like Martin as a 2-way). If Beal were to become available Miami could offer something like Robinson, Herro, Tucker, KZ and picks for him but at that point your bigs rotation would be Bam, Dedmon, Morris, Butler(who really shouldn't play PF), possibly Yurtseven and would have to hope that they could add a rotational big from the buyout market. Miami has room under the hard cap to add more but it's not worth going into the repeater tax 1 year early unless you get a whale or the last piece of what you expect is a strong finals contender.
Someone is going to get a steal with Simmons, I think he's been holding back on his shooting on purpose in Philly. If he starts shooting from the outside in Philly it'll allow Embiid to go to the low post more and Simmons will have no chance of being the face of the franchise(which I believe Simmons desperately wants). It's really hard to come up with a reason why Simmons shoots from the outside in warmups or in pickup games and just flat out refuses to shoot in NBA games. His shooting won't be good, his FT% shows you that but he'll be much more dangerous to defenders if there's a threat vs no threat at all to shoot the ball.
Remember trading a prime Lamar Odom and Caron Butler for Shaq? I do.
That said, I expect no one will get traded any time soon unless theres a bad fit or someone really struggles or the team struggles, even with Simmons out there and possibly Kyrie.
Not a good comparison. Lamar was a good player. Never an Allstar. Caron was an Allstar, but he was more Herro level while here. Bam and Butler are at a higher level than those two. Then it's hard to envision a Shaq level player becoming available and us trading Butler, Bam and whomever else to get them. Different levels of value.
Remember trading a prime Lamar Odom and Caron Butler for Shaq? I do.
That said, I expect no one will get traded any time soon unless theres a bad fit or someone really struggles or the team struggles, even with Simmons out there and possibly Kyrie.
Not a good comparison. Lamar was a good player. Never an Allstar. Caron was an Allstar, but he was more Herro level while here. Bam and Butler are at a higher level than those two. Then it's hard to envision a Shaq level player becoming available and us trading Butler, Bam and whomever else to get them. Different levels of value.
That was a fine comparison. Odom was pegged for all-star glory and was leading the team in multiple categories. You think LA would have traded Shaq for crap players? Please.
harlem_ball wrote: Players can always get traded from a team looking to improve. Not sure why you are singling out these 2 players specifically (Herro/DRob). The Heat will have cap space in the coming seasons and if they do look to trade for a whale they will look at all their options. If Butler struggles this year he may get traded as the Heat pivot to Herro. Anything can happen. BTW Winslow was struggling mightily to live up to expectations and JRich was a marginal 2nd round draft pick at best. He played good defense but was inconsistent in all other aspects.
Because literally they are the only tradeable pieces. Lowry, Bam and Butler are offlimits. The other players are minimum guys. So its those 2 plus PJ Tucker. Tucker only makes sense for a contender, another contender isn't going to give you a better player back. So if there's going to be a trade Duncan for sure will be involved. He's th And if that trade is for an allstar or borderline allstar player, Herro likely will be included. This isn't a disrespect to these players. They are tradeable because they are above average players, if they sucked no one would want them
Right.
Herro will be a RFA so there's team control over him for 3 to 7 years as of now. Robinson is on a 4+1 contract so there's team control over him.
Oladipo could be moved with his Bird rights but the team getting him couldn't control whether he leaves. He basically forced his way to Miami so if you don't keep him it's possible other higher level players who would have forced their way to Miami won't in future years. Also, if Miami doesn't pay Oladipo on what will probably be his last sizable contract, he'll just have to go elsewhere for more money and Miami may get nothing out of him while Houston still has the ability to swap Miami's 2022 pick with Brooklyn's 22 pick.
On Butler and Lowry, they fit great in Miami and both forced his way to Miami which moving him could cause issues with future higher level FAs like Oladipo's situation.
Robinson's value drops possibly greatly for Miami if he's moved to the bench for Oladipo or Herro to start at the 2 if either shows they should be a starter and I'd expect one of those guys to do that by next season.
In all the calculations of the roster construction to become a stronger contender, I wonder how many people actually know that Oladipo is barely 2 years older then Robinson?
harlem_ball wrote:Oh, says you guys. ok.
Remember trading a prime Lamar Odom and Caron Butler for Shaq? I do.
That said, I expect no one will get traded any time soon unless theres a bad fit or someone really struggles or the team struggles, even with Simmons out there and possibly Kyrie.
Sure, I don't expect to see any major trades until next offseason unless a bigtime player comes available like Beal which makes Miami feel ok going in to the tax this year(Miami's trying to stay out of the tax this year, hence only 14 of the 15 active spots taken up, and adding a guy like Martin as a 2-way). If Beal were to become available Miami could offer something like Robinson, Herro, Tucker, KZ and picks for him but at that point your bigs rotation would be Bam, Dedmon, Morris, Butler(who really shouldn't play PF), possibly Yurtseven and would have to hope that they could add a rotational big from the buyout market. Miami has room under the hard cap to add more but it's not worth going into the repeater tax 1 year early unless you get a whale or the last piece of what you expect is a strong finals contender.
Someone is going to get a steal with Simmons, I think he's been holding back on his shooting on purpose in Philly. If he starts shooting from the outside in Philly it'll allow Embiid to go to the low post more and Simmons will have no chance of being the face of the franchise(which I believe Simmons desperately wants). It's really hard to come up with a reason why Simmons shoots from the outside in warmups or in pickup games and just flat out refuses to shoot in NBA games. His shooting won't be good, his FT% shows you that but he'll be much more dangerous to defenders if there's a threat vs no threat at all to shoot the ball.
Horrific trade in Washington's favor. C'mon man. Beal is an undersized SG playing at the absolute peak of his powers. Herro has massive upside.
AirP. wrote:Sure, I don't expect to see any major trades until next offseason unless a bigtime player comes available like Beal which makes Miami feel ok going in to the tax this year(Miami's trying to stay out of the tax this year, hence only 14 of the 15 active spots taken up, and adding a guy like Martin as a 2-way). If Beal were to become available Miami could offer something like Robinson, Herro, Tucker, KZ and picks for him but at that point your bigs rotation would be Bam, Dedmon, Morris, Butler(who really shouldn't play PF), possibly Yurtseven and would have to hope that they could add a rotational big from the buyout market. Miami has room under the hard cap to add more but it's not worth going into the repeater tax 1 year early unless you get a whale or the last piece of what you expect is a strong finals contender.
Someone is going to get a steal with Simmons, I think he's been holding back on his shooting on purpose in Philly. If he starts shooting from the outside in Philly it'll allow Embiid to go to the low post more and Simmons will have no chance of being the face of the franchise(which I believe Simmons desperately wants). It's really hard to come up with a reason why Simmons shoots from the outside in warmups or in pickup games and just flat out refuses to shoot in NBA games. His shooting won't be good, his FT% shows you that but he'll be much more dangerous to defenders if there's a threat vs no threat at all to shoot the ball.
Horrific trade in Washington's favor. C'mon man. Beal is an undersized SG playing at the absolute peak of his powers. Herro has massive upside.
This is what I expected, you value Herro way more then I do. Beal just made all-nba, had back to back seasons of 30+ ppg and made 3 of the last 4 all-star games yet Miami would be giving up too much with a package of players who probably will never make an all-star team.
I'm not sure he's the type of player we need next to Bam. I think we need a John Collins type - meaning a PF mobile enough to play defense on switches but also trigger happy enough to really jack up a lot of 3's and outside shots.
Gallinari is fat SOB but if he was ever healthy he would be a fit too.
We need a second big next to Bam that is big enough to take some pressure off Bam with rim protection and rebounding, but also with a good enough outside shot to really stretch the defenses.
Tucker is just too old and his shot in unreliable. Morris is just meh, very inconsistent with everything. KZ too raw still it looks like.
Christian Wood would be great here but probably costs too much to trade.
I'm sure they're a strong PF with a 3 point shot out there somewhere........
AirP. wrote:Sure, I don't expect to see any major trades until next offseason unless a bigtime player comes available like Beal which makes Miami feel ok going in to the tax this year(Miami's trying to stay out of the tax this year, hence only 14 of the 15 active spots taken up, and adding a guy like Martin as a 2-way). If Beal were to become available Miami could offer something like Robinson, Herro, Tucker, KZ and picks for him but at that point your bigs rotation would be Bam, Dedmon, Morris, Butler(who really shouldn't play PF), possibly Yurtseven and would have to hope that they could add a rotational big from the buyout market. Miami has room under the hard cap to add more but it's not worth going into the repeater tax 1 year early unless you get a whale or the last piece of what you expect is a strong finals contender.
Someone is going to get a steal with Simmons, I think he's been holding back on his shooting on purpose in Philly. If he starts shooting from the outside in Philly it'll allow Embiid to go to the low post more and Simmons will have no chance of being the face of the franchise(which I believe Simmons desperately wants). It's really hard to come up with a reason why Simmons shoots from the outside in warmups or in pickup games and just flat out refuses to shoot in NBA games. His shooting won't be good, his FT% shows you that but he'll be much more dangerous to defenders if there's a threat vs no threat at all to shoot the ball.
Horrific trade in Washington's favor. C'mon man. Beal is an undersized SG playing at the absolute peak of his powers. Herro has massive upside.
This is what I expected, you value Herro way more then I do. Beal just made all-nba, had back to back seasons of 30+ ppg and made 3 of the last 4 all-star games yet Miami would be giving up too much with a package of players who probably will never make an all-star team.
I understand where you are coming from. Looking at the GM polls, Herro is not seen as a top young player. I believe in the kid. That 1st preseason game showed a plethora of skill. I am currently overrating Herro.
RexBoyWonder wrote:I'm hating myself for thinking it - but Kyle Kuzma intrigues me.
He can't cost much, he's young, improving defender, can kinds score as a stretchy PF.
Yea it's too gross.
Save me KZ.
KZ should just limit the scope of his game for now and pattern his game after PJ Tucker who's had a successful career. Make 3s from a few specific spots, play defense and try not to dribble or make complicated passes, make your coach understand exactly what you're going to give him when you're on the court. It's gotten Tucker paid into his mid 30s and he was good enough to be a starter for multiple teams that had Championship aspirations and one that did win the Championship.
RexBoyWonder wrote:About the M.Turner trade idea -
I'm not sure he's the type of player we need next to Bam. I think we need a John Collins type - meaning a PF mobile enough to play defense on switches but also trigger happy enough to really jack up a lot of 3's and outside shots.
Gallinari is fat SOB but if he was ever healthy he would be a fit too.
We need a second big next to Bam that is big enough to take some pressure off Bam with rim protection and rebounding, but also with a good enough outside shot to really stretch the defenses.
Tucker is just too old and his shot in unreliable. Morris is just meh, very inconsistent with everything. KZ too raw still it looks like.
Christian Wood would be great here but probably costs too much to trade.
I'm sure they're a strong PF with a 3 point shot out there somewhere........
Jerami Grant. Not as a good rebounder as Collins but he ticks the other boxes. But he'd likley cost a lot. I don't think I'd give up Herro for him. Another option is Nurkic. I kinda expect the Portland situation is going to implode and they'll trade Dame + older vets. Nurkic could be a solid addition. His defense sucks but he brings the offense and rebounding to punish small ball teams. If it doesn't cost Herro that could be a worth while move.
RexBoyWonder wrote:I'm hating myself for thinking it - but Kyle Kuzma intrigues me.
He can't cost much, he's young, improving defender, can kinds score as a stretchy PF.
Yea it's too gross.
Save me KZ.
KZ should just limit the scope of his game for now and pattern his game after PJ Tucker who's had a successful career. Make 3s from a few specific spots, play defense and try not to dribble or make complicated passes, make your coach understand exactly what you're going to give him when you're on the court. It's gotten Tucker paid into his mid 30s and he was good enough to be a starter for multiple teams that had Championship aspirations and one that did win the Championship.
KZ? Sure. Dude is going to have to gain around 150 pounds to be able to play like Tucker but hey, you have to start somewhere. KZ is basically like Brandon Ingram with no confidence or appearance of skills. It's surprising because I swore I saw him with a sweet hookshot game in college.
RexBoyWonder wrote:I'm hating myself for thinking it - but Kyle Kuzma intrigues me.
He can't cost much, he's young, improving defender, can kinds score as a stretchy PF.
Yea it's too gross.
Save me KZ.
KZ should just limit the scope of his game for now and pattern his game after PJ Tucker who's had a successful career. Make 3s from a few specific spots, play defense and try not to dribble or make complicated passes, make your coach understand exactly what you're going to give him when you're on the court. It's gotten Tucker paid into his mid 30s and he was good enough to be a starter for multiple teams that had Championship aspirations and one that did win the Championship.
KZ? Sure. Dude is going to have to gain around 150 pounds to be able to play like Tucker but hey, you have to start somewhere. KZ is basically like Brandon Ingram with no confidence or appearance of skills. It's surprising because I swore I saw him with a sweet hookshot game in college.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote, I wasn't talking about KZ becoming a good player, I was talking about KZ just trying to stay in the NBA after this his contract is up this year. If someone like Tucker can have a solid career just playing defense and shooting 3s maybe that's what KZ can try to work on to keep him in the league. Had Miami had more space under the tax cap I could have seen them cutting him and signing another rookie for the minimum or just signing Martian for the minimum vs the 2 way he signed.
Jerami Grant would be a pretty ideal fit at that 4 spot, as you say oreon. Not sure we’d like what it would cost to get him, I’m assuming Herro and pieces. You only make that move if Dipo looks ready on returning.
Lowry / Vincent Robinson / Oladipo Butler / Strus Grant / Tucker Adebayo / Dedmon
Would be a tough out. I’d like an upgrade on Gabe though.
Formerly BG44, MB30 and Wade County at BasketballForum.com
AirP. wrote:KZ should just limit the scope of his game for now and pattern his game after PJ Tucker who's had a successful career. Make 3s from a few specific spots, play defense and try not to dribble or make complicated passes, make your coach understand exactly what you're going to give him when you're on the court. It's gotten Tucker paid into his mid 30s and he was good enough to be a starter for multiple teams that had Championship aspirations and one that did win the Championship.
KZ? Sure. Dude is going to have to gain around 150 pounds to be able to play like Tucker but hey, you have to start somewhere. KZ is basically like Brandon Ingram with no confidence or appearance of skills. It's surprising because I swore I saw him with a sweet hookshot game in college.
I think you misunderstood what I wrote, I wasn't talking about KZ becoming a good player, I was talking about KZ just trying to stay in the NBA after this his contract is up this year. If someone like Tucker can have a solid career just playing defense and shooting 3s maybe that's what KZ can try to work on to keep him in the league. Had Miami had more space under the tax cap I could have seen them cutting him and signing another rookie for the minimum or just signing Martian for the minimum vs the 2 way he signed.
I understood and I agree. I'm just making a point that if he is to play defense like Tucker he is going to have to gain a lot of weight. Then I compared him to a broken Brandon Ingram.
KZ? Sure. Dude is going to have to gain around 150 pounds to be able to play like Tucker but hey, you have to start somewhere. KZ is basically like Brandon Ingram with no confidence or appearance of skills. It's surprising because I swore I saw him with a sweet hookshot game in college.
