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If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade)

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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#241 » by Stone » Thu Oct 7, 2021 11:31 am

TheNetsFan wrote:I don't buy the Knicks homer SAS narrative that he picked Brooklyn and KD agreed. There were reports that Marks and company thought they were getting KD when he went to GSW. KD picked his destination, and if it wasn't Kyrie it would have been somebody else along for the ride. We've seen other Friends of Kevin come and go. I don't think Kyrie is on sacred ground. He just has a longer leash.


Very good point TNF.....I bought into the whole "Kyrie wants to be home and he convinced KD to come along" storyline myself. But now there are signs that may not have been true all along.

If these guys wanted to be here together why didn't they negotiate extensions together?

KD seems to be distancing himself from Ky with "Maybe I'm naive".
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#242 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 7, 2021 12:00 pm

Stone wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I don't buy the Knicks homer SAS narrative that he picked Brooklyn and KD agreed. There were reports that Marks and company thought they were getting KD when he went to GSW. KD picked his destination, and if it wasn't Kyrie it would have been somebody else along for the ride. We've seen other Friends of Kevin come and go. I don't think Kyrie is on sacred ground. He just has a longer leash.


Very good point TNF.....I bought into the whole "Kyrie wants to be home and he convinced KD to come along" storyline myself. But now there are signs that may not have been true all along.

If these guys wanted to be here together why didn't they negotiate extensions together?

KD seems to be distancing himself from Ky with "Maybe I'm naive".


KD made it clear that no one talked him into signing here and the fact that he did not hesitate to reup says to me he wants to be here because he likes the organization and how Marks works.

Right now, I 100% believe that Harden is hesitant to resign yet because of Kyrie's craziness. We need to get rid of the guy.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#243 » by HardenGoat » Thu Oct 7, 2021 12:17 pm

KD saying “naive” is certainly a signal of distancing. Harden jumping on the fence is another big sign. There is no way they are supporting Kyrie in any way at this point and any statements of such are just words. If he refuses to get vaccinated he is not going to be on the team going forward. His belief that he will be any sort of support from the sideline is another delusion. Nothing more.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#244 » by Stone » Thu Oct 7, 2021 12:23 pm

The question's that need to answered now are...

Where is the line in the sand? In other words, how many days, weeks, months will it be before he KI is unwelcome by a majority of the front office, the team and the fans?

What legal ground if any does the front office have to terminate his contract?

Where does the players union stand on this?
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#245 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 7, 2021 1:05 pm

HardenGoat wrote:KD saying “naive” is certainly a signal of distancing. Harden jumping on the fence is another big sign. There is no way they are supporting Kyrie in any way at this point and any statements of such are just words. If he refuses to get vaccinated he is not going to be on the team going forward. His belief that he will be any sort of support from the sideline is another delusion. Nothing more.



It is utter delusion. The restrictions on unvaccinated players are so severe that they are basically isolated outside of the games. It makes zero sense for him to be on the active roster.

KD said this yesterday:

“I mean he’s a special player so it is going to be hard to duplicate what he brings,” Durant added. “But professional sports are about the next man up mentality so we are looking forward to guys stepping up and filling in that role as best as they can.”


KD isn't going to throw Kyrie under the bus in public, but it is clear that he's prepared to play and win with the guys who actually care to show up and abide by public health regulations.

The Nets need to suspend Kyrie indefinitely if he refuses to be vaccinated before the season opener. Keep him away from the team, and tell him if he wants to play elsewhere, the team will do its best to find a trading partner that is willing to take him. If no trading partner is available, then hopefully in the summer he does not take up his player option, that would be great too. But I think this relationship is over.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#246 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 7, 2021 1:08 pm

Stone wrote:The question's that need to answered now are...

Where is the line in the sand? In other words, how many days, weeks, months will it be before he KI is unwelcome by a majority of the front office, the team and the fans?

What legal ground if any does the front office have to terminate his contract?

Where does the players union stand on this?


It's nearly impossible to void an NBA contract. However, the league and the player's association are probably going to end up in court over this because Kyrie is not going to be paid because he is not fulfilling his contractual obligations.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#247 » by Gooner » Thu Oct 7, 2021 1:40 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
Stone wrote:The question's that need to answered now are...

Where is the line in the sand? In other words, how many days, weeks, months will it be before he KI is unwelcome by a majority of the front office, the team and the fans?

What legal ground if any does the front office have to terminate his contract?

Where does the players union stand on this?


It's nearly impossible to void an NBA contract. However, the league and the player's association are probably going to end up in court over this because Kyrie is not going to be paid because he is not fulfilling his contractual obligations.


Kyrie didn't sign up for no vaccine, he isn't breaking any contractual obligations.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#248 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 7, 2021 1:58 pm

Stone wrote:
TheNetsFan wrote:I don't buy the Knicks homer SAS narrative that he picked Brooklyn and KD agreed. There were reports that Marks and company thought they were getting KD when he went to GSW. KD picked his destination, and if it wasn't Kyrie it would have been somebody else along for the ride. We've seen other Friends of Kevin come and go. I don't think Kyrie is on sacred ground. He just has a longer leash.


Very good point TNF.....I bought into the whole "Kyrie wants to be home and he convinced KD to come along" storyline myself. But now there are signs that may not have been true all along.

If these guys wanted to be here together why didn't they negotiate extensions together?

KD seems to be distancing himself from Ky with "Maybe I'm naive".


Read all of what KD said. the "maybe im naive part" is pulled from a much larger quote, but that part isnt as headline/sensational so it got dropped:

[On if he will urge Kyrie to get the Vaccine]No, I don’t go out giving advice. This is his decision; that’s his choice. We all respected it, the team respects it. This is way bigger than hoops. So I don’t feel comfortable talking to him about stuff like this. But I’m just here to support him and to come in here and do my job as one of the leaders on the team, and when things get figured out... I’ve got trust and that it’ll get figured out,” Durant said.


the naive part was prodded as well. it only came after several questions about "it doesnt sound like he is going to be part of the team" and finally he was like "i guess im just naive" as if the reporters know better then he does.

This is like 101 media vs. kyrie. Whether you think he is a selfish moron or not, the media is still going do all they can to make it seem like there is a divide with the team
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#249 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 7, 2021 2:01 pm

HardenGoat wrote:KD saying “naive” is certainly a signal of distancing. Harden jumping on the fence is another big sign. There is no way they are supporting Kyrie in any way at this point and any statements of such are just words. If he refuses to get vaccinated he is not going to be on the team going forward. His belief that he will be any sort of support from the sideline is another delusion. Nothing more.


KD when first asked about Kyrie (paraphrasing)

"its his decision, we repsect it, its not my place to tell him to get vaccinated, we support him. i trust it will get sorted out. until then im just gonna do my work"

KD after the 5th or 6th time they asked him if he thinks kyrie will miss the season (again, paraphrasing):

"maybe im naive (sarcastic), but i envision him being here"
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#250 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 7, 2021 2:03 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
HardenGoat wrote:KD saying “naive” is certainly a signal of distancing. Harden jumping on the fence is another big sign. There is no way they are supporting Kyrie in any way at this point and any statements of such are just words. If he refuses to get vaccinated he is not going to be on the team going forward. His belief that he will be any sort of support from the sideline is another delusion. Nothing more.



It is utter delusion. The restrictions on unvaccinated players are so severe that they are basically isolated outside of the games. It makes zero sense for him to be on the active roster.

KD said this yesterday:

“I mean he’s a special player so it is going to be hard to duplicate what he brings,” Durant added. “But professional sports are about the next man up mentality so we are looking forward to guys stepping up and filling in that role as best as they can.”


KD isn't going to throw Kyrie under the bus in public, but it is clear that he's prepared to play and win with the guys who actually care to show up and abide by public health regulations.

The Nets need to suspend Kyrie indefinitely if he refuses to be vaccinated before the season opener. Keep him away from the team, and tell him if he wants to play elsewhere, the team will do its best to find a trading partner that is willing to take him. If no trading partner is available, then hopefully in the summer he does not take up his player option, that would be great too. But I think this relationship is over.



KD is focused on basketball and camp. he isnt worried about Kyrie. he will worry about kyrie whenever he is on the floor. he supports him being empowered to make his own choices.

it isnt as dramatic with KD as it is with the fans.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#251 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 7, 2021 2:22 pm

Stone wrote:The question's that need to answered now are...

Where is the line in the sand? In other words, how many days, weeks, months will it be before he KI is unwelcome by a majority of the front office, the team and the fans?

What legal ground if any does the front office have to terminate his contract?

Where does the players union stand on this?



That isnt how these things work, especially for large corporations/firms/organzaitons/franchises/etc...

Unless you have like some hot head owner who meddles like james dolan or jerry jones or steinbrenner (RIP) these things arent happening with "lines in the sand" or "deamnds" or "you need to...". If that does happen, its usually player initiated (Ben Simmons, harden last year, etc...)

The way this all plays out is from a much less dramatic much more intelligent matter. Something probably more along the lines of:

-Mandate comes out, Team consults with legal to see how it effects them, Players union does the same
-Players who arent vaxed consult with their agents, legal, players association
-Team talks to unvaxxed players to guage where they are going
-players (kyrie) hesistant to get vaxed they move to more detailed disucssions...

"whats the road block" "what needs to happen" "what are our options" "this is how we see it".

I assume those awsners from Kyrie were something like, i have no plans to get vaccinated because of (risk nonsense) or (religious) or (whatever).

Team tries to educate him on what thats a non-issue, Kyrie not convinced or isnt focused on that right now

-We move on to more productive stuff "what are the options?"
1) What exemption options are there (religious appeal - may be happening we dont know)
2) Loopholes to the mandate? Does residency matter? Are their cultural exemptions for natives in the city (not nba) mandate?
3) Can we wait it out? The mandate is not permanent. if the city of NY reaches a vaccine level of "X%" they may remove it. if hospitilzations/infections are down they may remove it. if cops/nurses/docs/fireman sue and win, they may remove/alter it.

The team and Kyrie may feel its more amicable to compromise and see how current challenges in court to the mandate go and if waiting it out is an option. missing 41 home games seems like a lot. but they play only 9 in the first month. if the mandate is edited due to court challenges by then, missing less then 10 games seems like less of a big deal.

Also, the team would have to be COMPLETE douchebags if they told Kyrie he has to get vaccinated or they will suspend/trade him if he is in the process of a religious appeal and hasn't had a decision on that. Regardless of if you hate kyrie or not, or think he is a moron or not... anyone who doesnt allow someone to go through a religious appeal is somewhere between unreasonable and a d-bag.

ok moving on....

any appeals fail, mandate sticks, looks like missing 41+ games. this is where the team goes to KD and is like here are our options:

-let him choose between missing 41 games or just taking a year off
-setting a hardline on you either play or you dont
-trade him

The Nets would be dumb not to give KD the options and at least hear his input. I Assume they would go with option 1. Letting Kyrie decide. "hey look, you play road games or you can sit out... we feel its best you sit out until the situaiton is sorted, its best for the team if when your back your fully back" hope he agrees and its a Kyrie hiatus mutually agreed on until a mandate is lifted.

Setting a hardline makes no sense. you gain nothing, you look like the bad guy to some players, you make the relaitonship worse, you tank any value he may have in a trade if that possible.

Trading him just doesnt work. 1 he can retire. he might. i dont believe that report, but he certiainly has other options. His value is low. anyone trading for him loses him at away games to brooklyn. you likely need to go through brooklyn (and pobably GS too) to win a title. No rebuilding team fits. and anyone value wise who works for kyrie is not being dealt (kawhi, curry, etc...).

Best bet would be a pick package, but again, no team with decent picks would want him because they are rebuilding.

Long story short, behind the scenes this isnt nearly as dramatic, they will take things 1 step at a time and keep all of their options open. the team will prepare for the worst case (whole year without him) and day to day they will work with their legal team and the NBA on possible ways around the mandate.


The media will feast on it every day as if its super pressing with the nets. i assure you, its not nearly how they make it out
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#252 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 7, 2021 2:42 pm

By the way, this is the crap that Kyrie was caught liking on Instagram by Rolling Stone:



Click at your own risk, because it is blatant disinformation and utter madness. We're talking Aliens and sh*t. Complete craziness

Kyrie is farther gone than I imagined if this is the stuff he's subscribing to and believes.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#253 » by HardenGoat » Thu Oct 7, 2021 2:57 pm

I doubt KD is going to continue to support a player that started missing games last year for personal reasons and now is set to miss over half the season - again due to personal reasons. The entire team did what was needed to move in the direction of a championship. Not Kyrie. He has Harden now on the fence, and there's little optimism that Kyrie is going to be available fully even next season if he sticks to his social defiance stand and paranoid ideation. His track record is proving he is unable to fully commit to playing basketball. Why would Durant invest his time and energy and pursuit of seasonal goals with a player as mentally handicapped as Kyrie? Harden won't, that is for certain, and he's just one of the players that joined purely for championship aspirations (Aldridge, Griffin, Mills, ....)
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#254 » by harlem_ball » Thu Oct 7, 2021 3:33 pm

Irving could be scared of dying from the vax. A 4th person died a few days ago. If he died, what Durant and Harden think wouldn't even matter...

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/575417-fourth-person-dies-from-rare-blood-clotting-syndrome-after-receiving-jj

His body, his choice.

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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#255 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Oct 7, 2021 3:50 pm

harlem_ball wrote:Irving could be scared of dying from the vax. A 4th person died a few days ago. If he died, what Durant and Harden think wouldn't even matter...

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/575417-fourth-person-dies-from-rare-blood-clotting-syndrome-after-receiving-jj

His body, his choice.

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Correlation does not imply causation, and there have been over 14 million doses of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine given with minimal adverse events. The vaccine is safe, I got it and I am fine.

Also, if Kyrie is afraid of the JnJ vaccine, the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are also available and are more widely administered.

It's been fun, but you're clearly here to troll (and you've been reported for it), so back to the Miami board if you're going to come on here spreading antivax sh*t.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#256 » by harlem_ball » Thu Oct 7, 2021 3:53 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:Irving could be scared of dying from the vax. A 4th person died a few days ago. If he died, what Durant and Harden think wouldn't even matter...

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/575417-fourth-person-dies-from-rare-blood-clotting-syndrome-after-receiving-jj

His body, his choice.

Image



Correlation is not imply causation, and there have been over 14 million doses of the Johnson and Johnson vaccine given with minimal adverse events. The vaccine is safe, I got it and I am fine.

Also, if Kyrie is afraid of the JnJ vaccine, the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are also available and are more widely administered.

It's been fun, but you're clearly here to troll (and you've been reported for it), so back to the Miami board if you're going to come on here spreading antivax sh*t.


Wow. Overreacting much?

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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#257 » by Prokorov » Thu Oct 7, 2021 5:28 pm

HardenGoat wrote:I doubt KD is going to continue to support a player that started missing games last year for personal reasons and now is set to miss over half the season - again due to personal reasons. The entire team did what was needed to move in the direction of a championship. Not Kyrie. He has Harden now on the fence, and there's little optimism that Kyrie is going to be available fully even next season if he sticks to his social defiance stand and paranoid ideation. His track record is proving he is unable to fully commit to playing basketball. Why would Durant invest his time and energy and pursuit of seasonal goals with a player as mentally handicapped as Kyrie? Harden won't, that is for certain, and he's just one of the players that joined purely for championship aspirations (Aldridge, Griffin, Mills, ....)


Because he doesnt think or care about it the way you do and supports kyrie the person, not just kyrie the basketball teammate.

also everyone in the organization supported his time missed last year. he had a kid. legally they cant even prevent him from taking that time off. i know the us doesnt have much for paternal benefits, but your kid being born is one of them
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#258 » by Suwanee » Thu Oct 7, 2021 7:33 pm

harlem_ball wrote:Irving could be scared of dying from the vax. A 4th person died a few days ago. If he died, what Durant and Harden think wouldn't even matter...

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/575417-fourth-person-dies-from-rare-blood-clotting-syndrome-after-receiving-jj

His body, his choice.

Image

And more people died unvaccinated. What is your point? If Kyrie gets Covid and infects others, what then?
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#259 » by haosmoove » Thu Oct 7, 2021 8:24 pm

Why are we discussing how to void Kyrie's contract? What good does that do for us? We will not be under the cap even without his salary.
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Re: If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade) 

Post#260 » by haosmoove » Thu Oct 7, 2021 8:38 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Stone wrote:The question's that need to answered now are...

Where is the line in the sand? In other words, how many days, weeks, months will it be before he KI is unwelcome by a majority of the front office, the team and the fans?

What legal ground if any does the front office have to terminate his contract?

Where does the players union stand on this?



That isnt how these things work, especially for large corporations/firms/organzaitons/franchises/etc...

Unless you have like some hot head owner who meddles like james dolan or jerry jones or steinbrenner (RIP) these things arent happening with "lines in the sand" or "deamnds" or "you need to...". If that does happen, its usually player initiated (Ben Simmons, harden last year, etc...)

The way this all plays out is from a much less dramatic much more intelligent matter. Something probably more along the lines of:

-Mandate comes out, Team consults with legal to see how it effects them, Players union does the same
-Players who arent vaxed consult with their agents, legal, players association
-Team talks to unvaxxed players to guage where they are going
-players (kyrie) hesistant to get vaxed they move to more detailed disucssions...

"whats the road block" "what needs to happen" "what are our options" "this is how we see it".

I assume those awsners from Kyrie were something like, i have no plans to get vaccinated because of (risk nonsense) or (religious) or (whatever).

Team tries to educate him on what thats a non-issue, Kyrie not convinced or isnt focused on that right now

-We move on to more productive stuff "what are the options?"
1) What exemption options are there (religious appeal - may be happening we dont know)
2) Loopholes to the mandate? Does residency matter? Are their cultural exemptions for natives in the city (not nba) mandate?
3) Can we wait it out? The mandate is not permanent. if the city of NY reaches a vaccine level of "X%" they may remove it. if hospitilzations/infections are down they may remove it. if cops/nurses/docs/fireman sue and win, they may remove/alter it.

The team and Kyrie may feel its more amicable to compromise and see how current challenges in court to the mandate go and if waiting it out is an option. missing 41 home games seems like a lot. but they play only 9 in the first month. if the mandate is edited due to court challenges by then, missing less then 10 games seems like less of a big deal.

Also, the team would have to be COMPLETE douchebags if they told Kyrie he has to get vaccinated or they will suspend/trade him if he is in the process of a religious appeal and hasn't had a decision on that. Regardless of if you hate kyrie or not, or think he is a moron or not... anyone who doesnt allow someone to go through a religious appeal is somewhere between unreasonable and a d-bag.

ok moving on....

any appeals fail, mandate sticks, looks like missing 41+ games. this is where the team goes to KD and is like here are our options:

-let him choose between missing 41 games or just taking a year off
-setting a hardline on you either play or you dont
-trade him

The Nets would be dumb not to give KD the options and at least hear his input. I Assume they would go with option 1. Letting Kyrie decide. "hey look, you play road games or you can sit out... we feel its best you sit out until the situaiton is sorted, its best for the team if when your back your fully back" hope he agrees and its a Kyrie hiatus mutually agreed on until a mandate is lifted.

Setting a hardline makes no sense. you gain nothing, you look like the bad guy to some players, you make the relaitonship worse, you tank any value he may have in a trade if that possible.

Trading him just doesnt work. 1 he can retire. he might. i dont believe that report, but he certiainly has other options. His value is low. anyone trading for him loses him at away games to brooklyn. you likely need to go through brooklyn (and pobably GS too) to win a title. No rebuilding team fits. and anyone value wise who works for kyrie is not being dealt (kawhi, curry, etc...).

Best bet would be a pick package, but again, no team with decent picks would want him because they are rebuilding.

Long story short, behind the scenes this isnt nearly as dramatic, they will take things 1 step at a time and keep all of their options open. the team will prepare for the worst case (whole year without him) and day to day they will work with their legal team and the NBA on possible ways around the mandate.


The media will feast on it every day as if its super pressing with the nets. i assure you, its not nearly how they make it out


Given how urgent this is and both the magnitude and scope of the impact, I am pretty sure the Nets have already went through the whole process at least once. (Pending changes to the viabilities of the various options) You'd be surprised how fast even large corporations can get things done when there's a deadline.

That being said, I don't believe the Nets will take a hard stance on Kyrie right away, that's really bad on the image that Marks tried to build for many years. They are definitely still trying to get through to Kyrie on vax. If that doesn't appear to work, the next best thing to to convince him that trading him is to his best interest. Only then the Nets don't appear on the wrong for putting him on the block.

He will be worth his full value to most other teams so I don't agree with 50 cents on a dollar return. The mandate does not ban unvax road players. (employees from other States) So Kyrie is set to miss 43 games if he remains with us, but he should be available for all 82 games if he's traded to a team outside of CA and NY.

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