The Official Franz Wagner Thread

[Optimus_Steel]

Liked his defense in preseason game 1, he uses his length and stays down to contest shots.

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[Horcy]

On the other hand, you realistically probably want more than that out of a top 8 pick.

Probably this resumes my thoughts and feelings. I expect more from an 8th pick but he definitely understands the game.

[madvillian]

On the other hand, you realistically probably want more than that out of a top 8 pick.

Probably this resumes my thoughts and feelings. I expect more from an 8th pick but he definitely understands the game.

Realistically if you get a solid starter out of the 8th pick that's a great pick. Franz is never going to be a bucket getter but he can be a solid starter, glue guy that makes everybody's life easier defensively.

[nicnac215]

Franz did not look much different from rookie JI. If he can be like JI but slightly less defense but better shooting we got a get with the 8th pick.

[Skin]

It's a total messed up mindset to be ok with a journeyman type bench prospect with the 8th pick.

We need that player to be better than every player picked after him.

[pepe1991]

It's a total messed up mindset to be ok with a journeyman type bench prospect with the 8th pick.

We need that player to be better than every player picked after him.

in general for whatever reason, 8th pick is worst pick in lottery. Been that way for half of sencuary.

You probably need to go down to 70s to find allstar selected 8th. ( Ron Harper comming closest to good player, with Rudy Gay...)

[drsd]

in general for whatever reason, 8th pick is worst pick in lottery. Been that way for half of sencuary.

In evaluating this, I guess we should look at who went 9 and 10.

2020: Obi Toppin vs. Deni Avdija and Jalen Smith. Toppiun at #8 is ok, but I do like Avdija.
2019: Jaxson Hayes vs. Rui Hachimura and Cam Reddish. Whoever drafted Hayes over Hachimura should no longer be an NBA employee.
2018: Collin Sexton vs. Kevin Knox and Mikal Bridges. Umm: this was clearly a great pick at #8.
2017: Frank Ntilikina vs. Dennis Smith Jr. and Zach Collins. That all three suck: well ???
2016: Marquese Chriss vs. Jakob Pöltl and Thon Maker. Maker went 10th ??? Anyhow, all three are marginal NBA players.
2015: Stanley Johnson vs. Frank Kaminsky and Justise Winslow. Hindsite has Winslow here; but he was basically scouted out like Johnson.
2014: Nik Stauskas vs. Noah Vonleh and Elfrid Payton. With a straightt face I have to accept that Payton is the best here.
2013: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope vs. Trey Burke and CJ McCollum. All three are ballers, so hard to argue.
2012: Terrence Ross vs. Andre Drummond and Austin Rivers. Clearly Ross is the man here.


And for fun: let's watch Drummond "brick" some free throws. (Is it a "brick" if you miss the rim entirely?)

Watch on YouTube

[basketballRob]

I don't think will be like Sabonis, but here's his rookie season game log. Nothing really impressive. He did have 13 double digit scoring games, and 2 double digit rebounding games.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sabondo01/gamelog/2017


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[pepe1991]

in general for whatever reason, 8th pick is worst pick in lottery. Been that way for half of sencuary.

In evaluating this, I guess we should look at who went 9 and 10.

2020: Obi Toppin vs. Deni Avdija and Jalen Smith. Toppiun at #8 is ok, but I do like Avdija.
2019: Jaxson Hayes vs. Rui Hachimura and Cam Reddish. Whoever drafted Hayes over Hachimura should no longer be an NBA employee.
2018: Collin Sexton vs. Kevin Knox and Mikal Bridges. Umm: this was clearly a great pick at #8.
2017: Frank Ntilikina vs. Dennis Smith Jr. and Zach Collins. That all three suck: well ???
2016: Marquese Chriss vs. Jakob Pöltl and Thon Maker. Maker went 10th ??? Anyhow, all three are marginal NBA players.
2015: Stanley Johnson vs. Frank Kaminsky and Justise Winslow. Hindsite has Winslow here; but he was basically scouted out like Johnson.
2014: Nik Stauskas vs. Noah Vonleh and Elfrid Payton. With a straightt face I have to accept that Payton is the best here.
2013: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope vs. Trey Burke and CJ McCollum. All three are ballers, so hard to argue.
2012: Terrence Ross vs. Andre Drummond and Austin Rivers. Clearly Ross is the man here.


And for fun: let's watch Drummond "brick" some free throws. (Is it a "brick" if you miss the rim entirely?)

Watch on YouTube

2011 Brandon Knight vs Kemba, Ferdette and Klay Thompson
2010 Aminu vs Hayward and Paul George
2009 Jordan Hill vs Derozan, Brandon Jennings
2008 Joe Alexander vs Augustin, Brook Lopez
2007 Brandon Wright vs Joakim Noah



it's just historiclly terrible pick. For example, 13th pick gave 3 allstars in last 7 years. 8th pick didn't turn into allstar in last +45 years ?

Why is this'? I have no clue, first my mindset was " 8th pick is normally drafted by mediocre teams so they are poorly runned all around" but so is 9th pick ( 5 allstars in 13 years ) and 10th pick (3 allstars in 15 years) or 7th pick ( Murray, Randle but also bunch of good players like Barnes, Eric Gordon,Markkanen... or megastar such is Curry) so it's clear my logic failed.


Overall us drafting Wagner always felt bit odd to me. Guy is 6'10 with flat arc of shot and 2 seasons of trackrecord of being mediocre outside shooter. He doesn't fill position of need not helps team fix biggest issue ( spacing,shooting) ,he is pretty much some crossover between Okeke & Isaac , but also probably will struggle to play along side them. Magic under Weltman & Hammond have very specific type of players they prefer. Those are by default lenghty players , and lenghty players in general can't dribble and struggle to shoot. And both Weltman & Hammond have history of drafting similar type of players in past. For better ( Giannis) or worst ( Maker ).

[drsd]

it's just historiclly terrible pick. For example, 13th pick gave 3 allstars in last 7 years. 8th pick didn't turn into allstar in last +45 years ?

Sure: but the Magic did not expect the pick to inflate to #8 when the Vučević trade was made. Probably the modelling had the pick in the 16-20 range at the time of the trade.

p.s. let us all recall how exited we were when the Bulls won the coin flip so the pick would not be 9 or 10.


..

[Magic_Kingdom]

Anybody notice Bouknight's stat-line in his first preseason game?

20 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steals in just 21 minutes off the bench.

Yes it is *way* too early to compare him to Franz, but like I said on draft night, I feel like Bouknight is the one we will look at 3 years from now while slamming our heads against a wall. We have been searching for a true scorer for years, and one was sitting there for the taking.

[tiderulz]

Anybody notice Bouknight's stat-line in his first preseason game?

20 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steals in just 21 minutes off the bench.

Yes it is *way* too early to compare him to Franz, but like I said on draft night, I feel like Bouknight is the one we will look at 3 years from now while slamming our heads against a wall. We have been searching for a true scorer for years, and one was sitting there for the taking.

yep, plenty of us liked him. i agree this is a player we could really regret passing on

[Bergmaniac]

I don't think will be like Sabonis, but here's his rookie season game log. Nothing really impressive. He did have 13 double digit scoring games, and 2 double digit rebounding games.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sabondo01/gamelog/2017

Sabonis played out of position because OKC already had 2 good centres and nobody at PF until they got Gibson midway through the season. He was asked to space the floor because OKC lacked shooters and this is really not his game.

[j-ragg]

Not saying I’ll always dislike him as a prospect or anything. He is rough right now.

He seems like he’d be a good guy to play next to an alpha scorer that draws a ton of attention. Smart with his off-ball cutting at the right time. We just won’t have that here for the foreseeable future so we’ll probably try to turn him into an iso guy (and fail).

[jonbob17]

Franz is a really good basketball player.

You hear the phrase “he knows how to play” a lot and in his case it’s really accurate.

Little things that young guys just don’t typically do, he already does. He understands when and where to rotate defensively. He knows where the extra pass is and makes it. He has timing and feel as a cutter.

What he lacks right now is a combination of experience, assertiveness and confidence offensively. He has a role player mentality on offense. He’s naturally more of a “let the game happen around me” type of player than he is “I’m going to make my impact felt” type of guy.

On one hand, he’s rarely going to get outside of himself with turnovers and bad shots.

On the other hand, you realistically probably want more than that out of a top 8 pick.

I very much expect the Magic to play better when he’s on the floor that off the floor this year because he’s a guy who doesn’t mess up a lot, but you wonder how much upside their really is if he doesn’t develop a more aggressive mentality.

Seems like this will be the perfect year to let Franz figure out his game and see what he can get away with. If he makes a mistake or gets beat bad who cares? I just want to sell all these young guys pushing the limits of their game, and making the mistakes that will come with that.

[SOUL]

I'm still not very high on Bouknight. Think he would be redundant with all the guards we have. If he becomes some uber Donovan Mitchell style scorer then yeah, obviously we should've picked him.. but if he's an inefficient scorer then I'm good.

[Ducklett]

Anybody notice Bouknight's stat-line in his first preseason game?

20 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steals in just 21 minutes off the bench.

Yes it is *way* too early to compare him to Franz, but like I said on draft night, I feel like Bouknight is the one we will look at 3 years from now while slamming our heads against a wall. We have been searching for a true scorer for years, and one was sitting there for the taking.

Lets go back to Dennis Smith Jr posts! I feel like we are back to those with Bouknight. Dennis Smith is playing in China now, isn't he?

[tiderulz]

I'm still not very high on Bouknight. Think he would be redundant with all the guards we have. If he becomes some uber Donovan Mitchell style scorer then yeah, obviously we should've picked him.. but if he's an inefficient scorer then I'm good.

who is he redundant than? looks better than RJ, Cole definitely. Harris is better defender and still cant shoot well.

[SOUL]

I'm still not very high on Bouknight. Think he would be redundant with all the guards we have. If he becomes some uber Donovan Mitchell style scorer then yeah, obviously we should've picked him.. but if he's an inefficient scorer then I'm good.

who is he redundant than? looks better than RJ, Cole definitely. Harris is better defender and still cant shoot well.

Smallish guard whose main skill is scorer/shooter. Looks solid in preseason, but so did Cole and Cole had some big games last year. If Bouknight posts similar shooting numbers he will just be called a chucker (or better yet only a chucker if he played for us lol)

[Bensational]

Anybody notice Bouknight's stat-line in his first preseason game?

20 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steals in just 21 minutes off the bench.

Yes it is *way* too early to compare him to Franz, but like I said on draft night, I feel like Bouknight is the one we will look at 3 years from now while slamming our heads against a wall. We have been searching for a true scorer for years, and one was sitting there for the taking.

yep, plenty of us liked him. i agree this is a player we could really regret passing on

I’ll be happy to be wrong about him. Glad to see he’s off to a good start.