NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[dhsilv2]

You didn't answer my question.

You didn't ask a real question.

These vaccines have nothing even slightly different to them that would lead to differences in products with 20+ years of research. If you want to know the long term risk of each vaccine you can research other vaccines. That data is readily available. You're however trying to imply these are radically different from both getting covid and/or other vaccines. And frankly nothing could be further from the truth.

You just said it's not true that any long term effects could happen. So I am asking you can you guarantee that nothing will happen down the road from taking this vax? But looks you can't so that says all I need to know.

I can't guarantee you'll live through your morning shower. I can assure you that breathing oxygen could increase your chance of cancer.

You however were implying there's some additional uncertain risk to these vaccines vs the same methods used in others. There's just nothing here to think this presents any meaningful long term risk.

But you know, I'm pretty good with taking health gambles way bigger than these. I drink diet soda. I drive a car, sometimes even over the speed limit. I cross streets at night. If you're someone who doesn't take those kinds of risks...I fully support your right that nobody has to my knowledge questioned, to not get vaccinated. But the idea that it's smart to be actively concerned of this given what we know from someone who gambles with their life in a car on a regular basis or crosses streets at night seems a bit much.

[infinite11285]

This was never about public health - none of it makes sense. If it was, Canada's government would allow those with antibodies the same freedoms that the vaccinated have, considering that antibodies offer significantly more protection than the vaccine (this has been proven and confirmed). But that's not the case. Anybody with half a brain should be asking questions right now.

Have either of you consulted with your respective doctors? They would be the best source to alleviate any confusion that you may have.

No, but I fail to see why it's necessary. Who is refuting the point that these vaccine weren't even made to prevent infection and they fail to do so at a high enough rate given all the data we have available to us. I don't need a Dr. to point out the obvious.

It's necessary because doing your own research and formulating your own conclusions as a novice on the matter is a flawed practice where you're much more likely to adopt data and results that align with your own inherent bias. You wouldn't advise a rocket scientist how to approach calculating re-entry into orbit based on YouTube and Google searches, would you? Unless you've participated in a peer-reviewed study on COVID, consult with a professional you know and trust. The internet isn't your doctor, nor is the television.

[jg77]

The answer is no; that's like trying to guarantee to someone that they won't end up in a car accident if they decide to take a trip to the store.

The real questions are the likelihood and severity of any experienced side-effect. 6.4B COVID various vaccine doses have been administered worldwide over the last year or so, and an overwhelming number of individuals have experienced insignificant side effects if any at all. On the flip side, contracting COVID has shown to present some nasty long-term side effects, for some. Speaking for myself, I felt like crap after the second Moderna dose for about a day. Aside from that, my experience has been painless, fortunately.

Seeing how the survival rate of covid is 99.98% that's why most are passing on this vax. Nobody can guarantee they won't get a long term side effect from covid but also can't guarantee they won't get a long term side effect from the vax. I can live with my own decision but what I can't do is live with someone making the decision for me.

Most people are passing on the vaccine? 78% of USA adults are vaccinated. In the northeast, over 85% of adults are. 94% of age 65+ are vaccinated in the USA as well. Just because you are anti-vaxx, doesn't mean "most people" are. The unvaxxed adults are a major outlier in the USA.

And you ignore hospitalization rates. Covid hospitalizes about 10% of people. If you want to spend 2 weeks in the hospital, enjoy. The vaccine cuts that by 90-95%.

If these numbers were true then I'm not sure why it's still getting pushed as hard as it is. We should be near herd immunity then.

[dhsilv2]

Seeing how the survival rate of covid is 99.98% that's why most are passing on this vax. Nobody can guarantee they won't get a long term side effect from covid but also can't guarantee they won't get a long term side effect from the vax. I can live with my own decision but what I can't do is live with someone making the decision for me.

Most people are passing on the vaccine? 78% of USA adults are vaccinated. In the northeast, over 85% of adults are. 94% of age 65+ are vaccinated in the USA as well. Just because you are anti-vaxx, doesn't mean "most people" are. The unvaxxed adults are a major outlier in the USA.

And you ignore hospitalization rates. Covid hospitalizes about 10% of people. If you want to spend 2 weeks in the hospital, enjoy. The vaccine cuts that by 90-95%.

If these numbers were true then I'm not sure why it's still getting pushed as hard as it is. We should be near herd immunity then.

How "hard" is it getting pushed? Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent to push people to get the flu vaccine. This is slightly more of a push than that. And we "mandate" vaccines for kids for all kinds of things. Same with international travel in some cases.

[DOT]

I think the issue here is, when people talk about vaccines "working," there are two different levels to them "working," the personal level and the societal level

On a personal level, the vaccine works if you take it. It dramatically reduces your chance to get sick and die, and is the best preventative measure (there's some evidence that natural immunity is better, but that requires you to contract Covid first which is riskier than getting vaccinated, and even then the evidence says both are better than just 1, so even if you have natural immunity, you should still get the shot). This may stop you personally from contracting and dying from it, but it won't stop the broader spread and mutation of the virus

It only works on a societal level if almost everyone gets it. That's how you eradicate the virus, by making it so that it can't spread and reproduce/mutate, or at the very least, you can contain it significantly easier. Which is why even the people who are vaccinated and safer still want everyone vaccinated, so that we don't have to just live with it and the risk of it mutating into a version that is more deadly and the vaccine is less good against

It's honestly incredible to me how many people are violently resistant to doing the bare minimum. Just get the damn vaccine already, it's an embarrassment to our country that so many vaccines are going to waste because of y'all when other countries are literally begging for them. Have some damn patriotism and put the needs of others before the wants of yourself.

[jg77]

Most people are passing on the vaccine? 78% of USA adults are vaccinated. In the northeast, over 85% of adults are. 94% of age 65+ are vaccinated in the USA as well. Just because you are anti-vaxx, doesn't mean "most people" are. The unvaxxed adults are a major outlier in the USA.

And you ignore hospitalization rates. Covid hospitalizes about 10% of people. If you want to spend 2 weeks in the hospital, enjoy. The vaccine cuts that by 90-95%.

If these numbers were true then I'm not sure why it's still getting pushed as hard as it is. We should be near herd immunity then.

How "hard" is it getting pushed? Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent to push people to get the flu vaccine. This is slightly more of a push than that. And we "mandate" vaccines for kids for all kinds of things. Same with international travel in some cases.

You're delusional if you don't see how hard it's being pushed. It's literally everywhere. There's a forced covid section on my YouTube feed, twitter feed...under hurricane preparadness they tell you to get the covid vaccine lol: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/features/hurricanepreparedness/index.html

There's ads on the radio, billboards, etc. I've never seen anything like it.

[Cartuse]

How "hard" is it getting pushed? Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent to push people to get the flu vaccine. This is slightly more of a push than that. And we "mandate" vaccines for kids for all kinds of things. Same with international travel in some cases.

Are you serious? There's a progressive rollout of living restrictions for unvaccinated people. First restaurants and mundane stuff, then travel. Now in some sectors people are getting straight up fired, and it seems like there's a strong interest in expanding that to all sectors of the economy and all jobs. Some individuals in this board are even calling for segregation. Here in Canada they're even pushing for full time home office federal employees to attest to being vaccinated as well. Talk about nonsense. How in the hell can you bend the narrative to justify that? Just say the end justifies the means and anything goes in the name of making people behave. Just say it out loud so you can hear it.

Does that look to a "slight" bigger push than what is done every year with the flu vaccine? I'm all for a reasonable debate but you're either being deliberately provocative or as disinformed as the people that you're bashing against.

[ecogen]

How "hard" is it getting pushed? Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent to push people to get the flu vaccine. This is slightly more of a push than that. And we "mandate" vaccines for kids for all kinds of things. Same with international travel in some cases.

Are you serious? There's a progressive rollout of living restrictions for unvaccinated people. First restaurants and mundane stuff, then travel. Now in some sectors people are getting straight up fired, and it seems like there's a strong interest in expanding that to all sectors of the economy and all jobs. Some individuals in this board are even calling for segregation. Here in Canada they're even pushing for full time home office federal employees to attest to being vaccinated as well. Talk about nonsense. How in the hell can you bend the narrative to justify that? Just say the end justifies the means and anything goes in the name of making people behave. Just say it out loud so you can hear it.

Does that look to a "slight" bigger push than what is done every year with the flu vaccine? I'm all for a reasonable debate but you're either being deliberately provocative or as disinformed as the people that you're bashing against.

Let me get the world's smallest violin, be right back.

[NyKnicks1714]

So you can guarantee 100% to all the unvaxxed that they won't face any issues down the road from the vax?

If I could sum up an antivaxxer who "does their own research" in a sentence, it might be this one. Words like "reduce", "increase", "likely", "unlikely" just aren't in their vocabulary. Instead they ask about "100% guarantee" and scream loudly the the vaccine doesn't PREVENT Covid. All the while they're worrying about this boogeyman of vaccine side effects while ignoring the things we actually know to be true about Covid.

[jg77]

So you can guarantee 100% to all the unvaxxed that they won't face any issues down the road from the vax?

If I could sum up an antivaxxer who "does their own research" in a sentence, it might be this one. Words like "reduce", "increase", "likely", "unlikely" just aren't in their vocabulary. Instead they ask about "100% guarantee" and scream loudly the the vaccine doesn't PREVENT Covid. All the while they're worrying about this boogeyman of vaccine side effects while ignoring the things we actually know to be true about Covid.

Those words are in my vocabulary. If you're to get covid then you are most likely to survive without any issues.

[FNQ]

Also, anyone telling you not to worry about long term side effects is being dishonest. You really just don't know. Something easily could come up 5 years from now.

Oh yeah? Like what?

Thing about long term issues is there’s always a bread crumb trail.. the reason people caution about the long term effects of COVID is because we can see it weakening the heart or scarring the lungs, which can be minor now but may play a role in 10 years at a personal level.

What does the vaccine do that’s remotely like that?

[NyKnicks1714]

So you can guarantee 100% to all the unvaxxed that they won't face any issues down the road from the vax?

If I could sum up an antivaxxer who "does their own research" in a sentence, it might be this one. Words like "reduce", "increase", "likely", "unlikely" just aren't in their vocabulary. Instead they ask about "100% guarantee" and scream loudly the the vaccine doesn't PREVENT Covid. All the while they're worrying about this boogeyman of vaccine side effects while ignoring the things we actually know to be true about Covid.

Those words are in my vocabulary. If you're to get covid then you are most likely to survive without any issues.

And if you get the vaccine, you're far more likely to survive and not have serious issues. But what are you worried about? Side effects that may arise which we have no evidence of. The bottom line is that you're far more likely to have Covid-related complications than vaccine-related complications.

[DOT]

So you can guarantee 100% to all the unvaxxed that they won't face any issues down the road from the vax?

If I could sum up an antivaxxer who "does their own research" in a sentence, it might be this one. Words like "reduce", "increase", "likely", "unlikely" just aren't in their vocabulary. Instead they ask about "100% guarantee" and scream loudly the the vaccine doesn't PREVENT Covid. All the while they're worrying about this boogeyman of vaccine side effects while ignoring the things we actually know to be true about Covid.

Those words are in my vocabulary. If you're to get covid then you are most likely to survive without any issues.

It's fascinating that y'all are super concerned about potential long term effects of the vaccine, but completely dismiss the possibility of any long term side effects of Covid

Like, can you guarantee that if I make it through Covid without dying, then I will 100% not have any long term side effects in 5, 10, 30 years?

[dhsilv2]

If these numbers were true then I'm not sure why it's still getting pushed as hard as it is. We should be near herd immunity then.

How "hard" is it getting pushed? Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent to push people to get the flu vaccine. This is slightly more of a push than that. And we "mandate" vaccines for kids for all kinds of things. Same with international travel in some cases.

You're delusional if you don't see how hard it's being pushed. It's literally everywhere. There's a forced covid section on my YouTube feed, twitter feed...under hurricane preparadness they tell you to get the covid vaccine lol: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/features/hurricanepreparedness/index.html

There's ads on the radio, billboards, etc. I've never seen anything like it.

Goes to youtube....

scrolling...oh hey there is a covid thing there. Wow has someone ever scrolled on the main page before?

So there are ads...like there are for the flu every year. Youtube is trying to get more click by discussing the biggest topic of the last decade.

That's a huge deal to you?

And radio? lol...I'm sure you and the 3 other people who still drive and don't play music got that. Billboards? lol.

[jg77]

If I could sum up an antivaxxer who "does their own research" in a sentence, it might be this one. Words like "reduce", "increase", "likely", "unlikely" just aren't in their vocabulary. Instead they ask about "100% guarantee" and scream loudly the the vaccine doesn't PREVENT Covid. All the while they're worrying about this boogeyman of vaccine side effects while ignoring the things we actually know to be true about Covid.

Those words are in my vocabulary. If you're to get covid then you are most likely to survive without any issues.

It's fascinating that y'all are super concerned about potential long term effects of the vaccine, but completely dismiss the possibility of any long term side effects of Covid

Like, can you guarantee that if I make it through Covid without dying, then I will 100% not have any long term side effects in 5, 10, 30 years?

Since neither can guarantee me safety then I should be good to choose either decision without one being forced on me, correct?

[DOT]

Those words are in my vocabulary. If you're to get covid then you are most likely to survive without any issues.

It's fascinating that y'all are super concerned about potential long term effects of the vaccine, but completely dismiss the possibility of any long term side effects of Covid

Like, can you guarantee that if I make it through Covid without dying, then I will 100% not have any long term side effects in 5, 10, 30 years?

Since neither can guarantee me safety then I should be good to choose either decision without one being forced on me, correct?

Sure

And since you can't guarantee safety by driving on the right side of the road or the left side of the road, you're good to choose either decision without one being forced on you.

[jg77]

It's fascinating that y'all are super concerned about potential long term effects of the vaccine, but completely dismiss the possibility of any long term side effects of Covid

Like, can you guarantee that if I make it through Covid without dying, then I will 100% not have any long term side effects in 5, 10, 30 years?

Since neither can guarantee me safety then I should be good to choose either decision without one being forced on me, correct?

Sure

And since you can't guarantee safety by driving on the right side of the road or the left side of the road, you're good to choose either decision without one being forced on you.

How did I know you'd come back with an analogy unrelated to the vax, lol.

[ItsDanger]

Most people are passing on the vaccine? 78% of USA adults are vaccinated. In the northeast, over 85% of adults are. 94% of age 65+ are vaccinated in the USA as well. Just because you are anti-vaxx, doesn't mean "most people" are. The unvaxxed adults are a major outlier in the USA.

And you ignore hospitalization rates. Covid hospitalizes about 10% of people. If you want to spend 2 weeks in the hospital, enjoy. The vaccine cuts that by 90-95%.

If these numbers were true then I'm not sure why it's still getting pushed as hard as it is. We should be near herd immunity then.

How "hard" is it getting pushed? Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent to push people to get the flu vaccine. This is slightly more of a push than that. And we "mandate" vaccines for kids for all kinds of things. Same with international travel in some cases.

Its getting pushed harder than any previous vaccine in history. Am I wrong on this point?

[Gusto1903]

If these numbers were true then I'm not sure why it's still getting pushed as hard as it is. We should be near herd immunity then.

How "hard" is it getting pushed? Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent to push people to get the flu vaccine. This is slightly more of a push than that. And we "mandate" vaccines for kids for all kinds of things. Same with international travel in some cases.

Its getting pushed harder than any previous vaccine in history. Am I wrong on this point?

Yeah, we got pushed harder into our homes, than by any previous disease too. Are you wrong on this point?

[ItsDanger]

How "hard" is it getting pushed? Every year millions upon millions of dollars are spent to push people to get the flu vaccine. This is slightly more of a push than that. And we "mandate" vaccines for kids for all kinds of things. Same with international travel in some cases.

Its getting pushed harder than any previous vaccine in history. Am I wrong on this point?

Yeah, we got pushed harder into our homes, than by any previous disease too. Are you wrong on this point?

Bacteria plague?