Ben Simmons trades go here (and here only): Expect warnings if not following forum rules

[realEAST]

OK, let's try a big one, three team trade with Indiana, Charlotte and 76ers

IND in: B. Simmons, M. Bridges, S. Curry, I. Joe (48.2 $)
IND out: M. Brogdon, D. Sabonis, J. Lamb (52 $), 2022 IND 1st rnd pick (top20 prot. or two 2nd round picks)

CHA in: D. Sabonis, J. Lamb (30.3 $)
CHA out: G. Hayward, M. Bridges, 2023 CHA 1st rnd pick (top20 prot., two 2nd rnd picks via Boston) (35.3 $)

PHI in: M. Brogdon, G. Hayward, 2022 IND 1st rnd pick (top20 prot.), 2023 CHA 1st rnd pick (top20 prot., two 2nd rnd picks via Boston) (51.6 $)
PHI out: B. Simmons, S. Curry, I. Joe (42.7 $)

Indiana restructures their starting five to get a better fitting and higher ceiling squad. They get probably the best player in the deal, good and talented two way forward in Bridges, proficient shooting guard in Curry and a talented shooter in Joe. Also, they stay below lux tax and even shed some salary.

Hornets get a long term solution for their big man, a young All Star signed to a really team friendly deal. Sabonis should complement other core guys really well, while playing between athletic forwards - primairly Washington and to a lesser degree Oubre -  should cover up some of his defensive flaws. Lamb is a well known face, decent contributor who should provide reliable depth. They improve top level talent of a team and continue improving their long term core, while opening significant cap space for next two summers (over 20 mil next summer, and more the summer after that).

76ers end Simmons drama, coming out with two really talented and experienced vets who know how to win and are good locker room guys. They form good two way team with multiple offensive threats who should play well off each other, making offense more versatile and unpredictable, while being great fits around Embiid. Adding Brogdon, Milton emerging and having multiple young guards in the wings makes trading Curry easier decision (while already being a neccessary one, due to salary purposes). They also get two low level picks which convey if deal really works for other teams, otherwise they get slew of 2nd rounders.

S. Curry.............TJ McConnell......I. Joe
C. LeVert...........C. Duarte
B. Simmons......J. Holiday............T. Craig
M. Bridges........TJ Warren............O. Brissett
M. Turner..........G. Bitadze............I. Jackson

L. Ball......................I. Smith
T. Rozier.................J. Bouknight....S. Lewis
K. Oubre.................J. Lamb...........J.McDaniels
PJ Washington.......K. Jones..........JT Thor
D. Sabonis...............M. Plumlee......N. Richards

M. Brogdon.......T. Maxey............J. Springer
D. Green............S. Milton............F. Korkmaz
G. Hayward.......M. Thybull
T. Harris............G. Niang.............P. Reed
J. Embiid..........A. Drummond....F. Petrusev

[Texas Chuck]

that's awfully expensive in real money for Philly, not a player upgrade, and they get 2 1sts that are so heavily protected as to easily not even be firsts and if they are then bottom 1/3 ones.

Feels like nothing Philly considers at all.

[eminence]

Similar concept as earlier, but with PHX in place of Dallas. Concept - they're reluctant to extend both Ayton/Bridges, so look for a strong defensive wing they won't have to max (Covington). PHI has to be willing to pay long-term. Not as much needed to make the savings work like with Powell/Dallas, who can only really be dumped on OKC.

PHI In: CJ/Bridges
PHI Out: Simmons/Green

POR In: Simmons/Green
POR Out: CJ/Covington

Suns In: Covington
Suns Out: Bridges/Shamet

??? In: Shamet
??? Out: zilch

POR sending out at least one first to PHX. Think it only works if PHI is willing to send out additional compensation to PHX as well though. Are they? Maybe instead PHX does keep Shamet and dumps Saric on OKC (what's the price on that?).

[zimpy27]

I don't really get Philly wanting picks from a team they send Simmons too. He's a floor raiser, he'll make those picks worth a lot less unless they are picks after his contract expires?

Something like:
Simmons for McCollum+POR25swap+POR26FRP+POR27swap+POR28FRP

[eminence]

I don't think ideally PHI would get picks, but it's even tougher to balance with just players.

[Slacktard]

I'm trying to think what the proper pick balance is for a CJ/Ben swap. 2 picks from POR? A pick and 2 swaps? Just one pick feels short to me.

I agree there. My big bugaboo is I don’t think Ben is happy in Portland long term. I think he would be happy short term because it isn’t Philly. Makes it hard to what to give up anything for him.

However, I think the right trade is somewhere toward the middle of what Portland is offering (CJ for Ben I think) and what Philly is asking (CJ + 3 picks + 3 Swaps).

I think the issue there is not all pick/swaps are equal.

The Nets was horrible because you were acquiring a 36 and 37 year old players and trading away future picks/swaps when those players would be approaching 40(assuming they still stayed in the league for you).

The Clippers have draft picks/swaps tied up thru the 2026 draft as part of the Paul George trade. That's a lot of uncertainty way down the line because they traded for Paul George in 2019. So you were committing the final draft pick in the trade almost SEVEN YEARS later from when you traded for the player.

If the Sixers did 2/2 with Portland. 2022 first/2023 swap

2022 Portland 1st - Maybe early 20s at best?
2023 Portland swap - Same position likely

I would even argue there's a pretty decent chance the 2023 swap doesn't even happen because Portland could have a better record than the Sixers in 2023.

So an early to mid 20s maybe even late 20s first isn't really much of a 'sweetener' in a 1 pick/1 swap deal with Portland.

You could possibly shift the picks/swaps further into the future. But how many GMs are going to trade/pass-up immediate help for something that won't happen for another 3 years? 4 years? 5 years?

[zimpy27]

I don't think ideally PHI would get picks, but it's even tougher to balance with just players.

Well I could see value for Philly to get the Portland picks after Lillard+Simmons are off contract. For one, if Portland does look to trade Lillard they would value getting their picks back.

[zimpy27]

I still see Murray+White as the best package for Simmons.

Murray, White, Green, Harris, Embiid -- Maxey/Curry, Thybulle, Korkmaz, Niang, Drummond

As far as I'm concerned, to get Murray+White I'd give up Simmons plus one of Maxey or Curry.

[eminence]

.

Would you do a Covington for DFS/WCS/2nd deal?

WCS/2nd the ones going to OKC now.

Maybe there's a team out there who'd do WCS for a min without the 2nd.

Edit:

PHI In: McCollum/DFS/'24 POR 1st

POR In: Simmons/Curry/Kenrich

DAL In: Covington

OKC In: WCS/'22 POR 1st

Maybe there's something minor from OKC to PHI too?

[Godaddycurse]

Similar concept as earlier, but with PHX in place of Dallas. Concept - they're reluctant to extend both Ayton/Bridges, so look for a strong defensive wing they won't have to max (Covington). PHI has to be willing to pay long-term. Not as much needed to make the savings work like with Powell/Dallas, who can only really be dumped on OKC.

PHI In: CJ/Bridges
PHI Out: Simmons/Green

POR In: Simmons/Green
POR Out: CJ/Covington

Suns In: Covington
Suns Out: Bridges/Shamet

??? In: Shamet
??? Out: zilch

POR sending out at least one first to PHX. Think it only works if PHI is willing to send out additional compensation to PHX as well though. Are they? Maybe instead PHX does keep Shamet and dumps Saric on OKC (what's the price on that?).

why is phoenix moving bridges for downgrade and pick(s) if they are trying to win in pauls' remaining window? doesn't make sense to include them imo. Also green cant be traded for a while and i am skeptical philly can afford bridges' new contract

[the_process]

Similar concept as earlier, but with PHX in place of Dallas. Concept - they're reluctant to extend both Ayton/Bridges, so look for a strong defensive wing they won't have to max (Covington). PHI has to be willing to pay long-term. Not as much needed to make the savings work like with Powell/Dallas, who can only really be dumped on OKC.

PHI In: CJ/Bridges
PHI Out: Simmons/Green

POR In: Simmons/Green
POR Out: CJ/Covington

Suns In: Covington
Suns Out: Bridges/Shamet

??? In: Shamet
??? Out: zilch

POR sending out at least one first to PHX. Think it only works if PHI is willing to send out additional compensation to PHX as well though. Are they? Maybe instead PHX does keep Shamet and dumps Saric on OKC (what's the price on that?).

PHI gets CJ, Bridges, Saric, and unprotected POR 2024 1st
PHX gets Covington and Milton
POR gets Simmons and Thybulle

[eminence]

Similar concept as earlier, but with PHX in place of Dallas. Concept - they're reluctant to extend both Ayton/Bridges, so look for a strong defensive wing they won't have to max (Covington). PHI has to be willing to pay long-term. Not as much needed to make the savings work like with Powell/Dallas, who can only really be dumped on OKC.

PHI In: CJ/Bridges
PHI Out: Simmons/Green

POR In: Simmons/Green
POR Out: CJ/Covington

Suns In: Covington
Suns Out: Bridges/Shamet

??? In: Shamet
??? Out: zilch

POR sending out at least one first to PHX. Think it only works if PHI is willing to send out additional compensation to PHX as well though. Are they? Maybe instead PHX does keep Shamet and dumps Saric on OKC (what's the price on that?).

why is phoenix moving bridges for downgrade and pick(s) if they are trying to win in pauls' remaining window? doesn't make sense to include them imo. Also green cant be traded for a while and i am skeptical philly can afford bridges' new contract

I see Covington as more of a sidegrade on Bridges.

Reasoning largely explained in that one sentence - PHX isn't willing to max both Ayton/Bridges and go deep into the luxury tax (this actually seems pretty likely to me based off past moves).

True on Green, Curry could potentially be substituted to get it done sooner without changing it too much I'd think.

Agreed on Philly also not wanting to extend Bridges being the biggest issue and one that would tank the deal.

[Godaddycurse]

I see Covington as more of a sidegrade on Bridges.

Reasoning largely explained in that one sentence - PHX isn't willing to max both Ayton/Bridges and go deep into the luxury tax (this actually seems pretty likely to me based off past moves).

True on Green, Curry could potentially be substituted to get it done sooner without changing it too much I'd think.

Agreed on Philly also not wanting to extend Bridges being the biggest issue and one that would tank the deal.

Bridges was a much better defender and shooter than Covington last year. The difference is huge imo. Phoenix is better off matching RFA offers if they want to be cheap (to save on 5 vs 8% raise)

[eminence]

Similar concept as earlier, but with PHX in place of Dallas. Concept - they're reluctant to extend both Ayton/Bridges, so look for a strong defensive wing they won't have to max (Covington). PHI has to be willing to pay long-term. Not as much needed to make the savings work like with Powell/Dallas, who can only really be dumped on OKC.

PHI In: CJ/Bridges
PHI Out: Simmons/Green

POR In: Simmons/Green
POR Out: CJ/Covington

Suns In: Covington
Suns Out: Bridges/Shamet

??? In: Shamet
??? Out: zilch

POR sending out at least one first to PHX. Think it only works if PHI is willing to send out additional compensation to PHX as well though. Are they? Maybe instead PHX does keep Shamet and dumps Saric on OKC (what's the price on that?).

PHI gets CJ, Bridges, Saric, and unprotected POR 2024 1st
PHX gets Covington and Milton
POR gets Simmons and Thybulle

I like the base involving Thybulle in place of Green, but I think PHX needs more. I'm not sure I like involving Saric instead of Shamet to make salaries work.

[eminence]

I see Covington as more of a sidegrade on Bridges.

Reasoning largely explained in that one sentence - PHX isn't willing to max both Ayton/Bridges and go deep into the luxury tax (this actually seems pretty likely to me based off past moves).

True on Green, Curry could potentially be substituted to get it done sooner without changing it too much I'd think.

Agreed on Philly also not wanting to extend Bridges being the biggest issue and one that would tank the deal.

Bridges was a much better defender and shooter than Covington last year. The difference is huge imo. Phoenix is better off matching RFA offers if they want to be cheap (to save on 5 vs 8% raise)

I disagree pretty strongly on Bridges being a much better defender last season (I'd lean Covington actually).

[realEAST]

that's awfully expensive in real money for Philly, not a player upgrade, and they get 2 1sts that are so heavily protected as to easily not even be firsts and if they are then bottom 1/3 ones.

Feels like nothing Philly considers at all.

Well, I don't see how 76ers could get a player upgrade for Simmons at this point, it would essentially mean he is traded for a top 20, 25 player. Imo, Brogdon and Hayward are pretty high level players who would elevate 76ers, didn't see ideas which return them a better combination of win now players. Firsts were added at the last minute, since I think this is pretty fair deal even without them.

[Texas Chuck]

that's awfully expensive in real money for Philly, not a player upgrade, and they get 2 1sts that are so heavily protected as to easily not even be firsts and if they are then bottom 1/3 ones.

Feels like nothing Philly considers at all.

Well, I don't see how 76ers could get a player upgrade for Simmons at this point, it would essentially mean he is traded for a top 20, 25 player. Imo, Brogdon and Hayward are pretty high level players who would elevate 76ers, didn't see ideas which return them a better combination of win now players. Firsts were added at the last minute, since I think this is pretty fair deal even without them.

yeah I worded that poorly. I have Hayward and Brogdon less valuable than Simmons and Curry isn't a thrown in to make salaries match. He's a good and valuable player. So I would have Philly needing some real incentive added to this deal. Both Brogdon and Hayward have such serious injury concerns especially for a team dependent on Embiid.

Lots of risk, no real reward.

[Blazer1776]

I'm trying to think what the proper pick balance is for a CJ/Ben swap. 2 picks from POR? A pick and 2 swaps? Just one pick feels short to me.

I agree there. My big bugaboo is I don’t think Ben is happy in Portland long term. I think he would be happy short term because it isn’t Philly. Makes it hard to what to give up anything for him.

However, I think the right trade is somewhere toward the middle of what Portland is offering (CJ for Ben I think) and what Philly is asking (CJ + 3 picks + 3 Swaps).

I think the issue there is not all pick/swaps are equal.

The Nets was horrible because you were acquiring a 36 and 37 year old players and trading away future picks/swaps when those players would be approaching 40(assuming they still stayed in the league for you).

The Clippers have draft picks/swaps tied up thru the 2026 draft as part of the Paul George trade. That's a lot of uncertainty way down the line because they traded for Paul George in 2019. So you were committing the final draft pick in the trade almost SEVEN YEARS later from when you traded for the player.

If the Sixers did 2/2 with Portland. 2022 first/2023 swap

2022 Portland 1st - Maybe early 20s at best?
2023 Portland swap - Same position likely

I would even argue there's a pretty decent chance the 2023 swap doesn't even happen because Portland could have a better record than the Sixers in 2023.

So an early to mid 20s maybe even late 20s first isn't really much of a 'sweetener' in a 1 pick/1 swap deal with Portland.

You could possibly shift the picks/swaps further into the future. But how many GMs are going to trade/pass-up immediate help for something that won't happen for another 3 years? 4 years? 5 years?

That’s my dilemma. To be honest, for the most part, I think Dame will play it year by year until his contract is up.

Those picks/swaps when you are looking 2-3 years out, could end up being immensely valuable.

I would rather just ride it out with what we have or make improvements around the edges.

Portland will never win with star power. If we do it, it will be because we have a well rounded and deep roster, with players who are all in. I honestly feel like we are fairly close to that. Our offense is one of the best in the league, defensive players can be added a bit cheaper than Simmons without mortgaging the future. I really liked the Nance Jr. moveZ

I also don’t think Simmons/Nurk will work, as that is 2 players on the court that won’t help with spacing.

[realEAST]

that's awfully expensive in real money for Philly, not a player upgrade, and they get 2 1sts that are so heavily protected as to easily not even be firsts and if they are then bottom 1/3 ones.

Feels like nothing Philly considers at all.

Well, I don't see how 76ers could get a player upgrade for Simmons at this point, it would essentially mean he is traded for a top 20, 25 player. Imo, Brogdon and Hayward are pretty high level players who would elevate 76ers, didn't see ideas which return them a better combination of win now players. Firsts were added at the last minute, since I think this is pretty fair deal even without them.

yeah I worded that poorly. I have Hayward and Brogdon less valuable than Simmons and Curry isn't a thrown in to make salaries match. He's a good and valuable player. So I would have Philly needing some real incentive added to this deal. Both Brogdon and Hayward have such serious injury concerns especially for a team dependent on Embiid.

Lots of risk, no real reward.

Both Brogdon and Hayward are more or less 20-5-5 (Brogdon slightly more and Hayward slightly less) players and good defenders, I think they would make up for Simmons / Curry production. They would be better offensively overall, and especially better suited for Playoffs imo, while defense wouldn't take too much of a hit despite losing Simmons - replacing Curry and having a more switchable unit 1 through 4 should make up for most of it imo. (and even more so if Simmons isn't playing ) Bssides, they still have some high level defenders to take care of the toughest perimeter tasks (Green, Thybulle), while Embiid is as good of an anchor as one team could have.

And I don't consider Curry a throw in, those picks are there mostly due to him being included in the deal. But I think he is not worth more than the 20s pick, and that's what they are getting if all goes according to plan.

Injuries are a risk concern, that is true. But at the same time getting two very productive players (would that combination be attainable otherwise?) for Simmons who is refusing to report is the main and key extra incentive 76ers would need to do this deal imo.

[the_process]

Similar concept as earlier, but with PHX in place of Dallas. Concept - they're reluctant to extend both Ayton/Bridges, so look for a strong defensive wing they won't have to max (Covington). PHI has to be willing to pay long-term. Not as much needed to make the savings work like with Powell/Dallas, who can only really be dumped on OKC.

PHI In: CJ/Bridges
PHI Out: Simmons/Green

POR In: Simmons/Green
POR Out: CJ/Covington

Suns In: Covington
Suns Out: Bridges/Shamet

??? In: Shamet
??? Out: zilch

POR sending out at least one first to PHX. Think it only works if PHI is willing to send out additional compensation to PHX as well though. Are they? Maybe instead PHX does keep Shamet and dumps Saric on OKC (what's the price on that?).

PHI gets CJ, Bridges, Saric, and unprotected POR 2024 1st
PHX gets Covington and Milton
POR gets Simmons and Thybulle

I like the base involving Thybulle in place of Green, but I think PHX needs more. I'm not sure I like involving Saric instead of Shamet to make salaries work.

Sarver definitely would, though.