Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[kuclas]

I actually think So Money’s conspiracy has some legs to it. He said from the start that Indiana is helping Morey by setting the value for Simmons with these ‘rejected’ trade offers.

I don’t begin to understand it — just saying Philadelphia turning down Levert AND Brogdon doesn’t smell right.

Why would Indy help Philly though? Both Eastern teams. Is there a connection between Morey and their GM?

I don’t begin to understand it — just saying Philadelphia turning down Levert AND Brogdon doesn’t smell right.

Levert isn’t that good. He’s a hot/cold player. Injury prone as well. Brodgon is a Good player. But tons of injuries also.

Indiana probably thinking their rookie durante? Can replace levert production. And Simmons is obviously gonna to take over brodgon slot.

[SO_MONEY]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/264327/76ers-Unmoved-By-Indianas-Ability-To-Offer-Malcolm-Brogdon-Caris-LeVert-For-Ben-Simmons

Morey is crazy not to take levert and brogdon.

I actually think So Money’s conspiracy has some legs to it. He said from the start that Indiana is helping Morey by setting the value for Simmons with these ‘rejected’ trade offers.

Why would Indy help Philly though? Both Eastern teams. Is there a connection between Morey and their GM?

Who knows the rationale here. But I think there is a misconception that a teams FO would publicly respond to rumors that are untrue. I have no idea if IND is actively helping PHI, but it is clear they are being used to set value. For all we know, we see Indiana's response, because it sure doesn't take long for a secondary rumor to surface that makes Morey look like a clown. This time POR, with CJ, 3 picks, 3 swaps. A pattern is emerging...if we are paying attention.

[SO_MONEY]

I want to add that every time we see a "realistic" defensible offer, starting with Brogdon and a 1st at the onset and nothing gets done, it stands to reason that offer probably didn't exist. Realistic offers if they existed would indicate this winding down and "real" offers would be forthcoming from teams.

The way I read it, there is virtually no interest from teams across the NBA, that no team thus far has even offered a "realistic" package (from Philly's perspective). Teams that have had rumored interest and assets that seem to make sense, might not even want Simmons, or the assets we might think make sense may not be on the table. Teams with interest for all we know might require Philadelphia to take back negatives to get any positive or only be interested if it only costs ancillary pieces and leaves their core intact, due to Simmons limitations.

In short, when we see realistic offers surface without immediately being followed by contradictory information we might then actually have some faith these offers may resemble something teams might be willing to do. Until then, realistic offers that don't happen probably were not actionable.

[jayu70]

Funny you should mention Atlanta because I always thought of them as the perfect third team to make the trade work. They have an interesting mix of young and old veteran players. Plus, my thought was always that an Eastern conference team would have the incentive to get Simmons out of the conference.

The most difficult part of that equation is that Philadelphia likely wants a PG. I don't think Atlanta is trading Trae Young....

PHI in: Bogdanovic, Beverley, Hunter
MIN in: Simmons
ATL in: Beasley, Reid, Okogie, Nowell, one FRP unprotected, one pick swap, 5 second round picks

PHI lineup:
Bev/Maxey
Bogdanovic/Curry
Green/Hunter
Harris / Niang
Embiid/ Drummond

Not a championship squad but a good enough squad to drive the team past where it was i.e. the second round.

ATL reloads with similar talent but accrues assets where it has depth.

Young / Wright / Nowell
Beasley / Lou Will
Heurter / Okogie / Reddish
Collins / Gallinari
Capela / Reid / Dieng

.

If Atlanta is giving up 2 starters in Bogdanovic and especially Hunter (who is highly thought of) they'd want Simmons to start at SF instead of the Minny offerings.

[SO_MONEY]

The most difficult part of that equation is that Philadelphia likely wants a PG. I don't think Atlanta is trading Trae Young....

PHI in: Bogdanovic, Beverley, Hunter
MIN in: Simmons
ATL in: Beasley, Reid, Okogie, Nowell, one FRP unprotected, one pick swap, 5 second round picks

PHI lineup:
Bev/Maxey
Bogdanovic/Curry
Green/Hunter
Harris / Niang
Embiid/ Drummond

Not a championship squad but a good enough squad to drive the team past where it was i.e. the second round.

ATL reloads with similar talent but accrues assets where it has depth.

Young / Wright / Nowell
Beasley / Lou Will
Heurter / Okogie / Reddish
Collins / Gallinari
Capela / Reid / Dieng

.

If Atlanta is giving up 2 starters in Bogdanovic and especially Hunter (who is highly thought of) they'd want Simmons to start at SF instead of the Minny offerings.

Would they? I don't think they would want Simmons and his contract and tax implications.

As for the trade...

I don't think MN trades Beasley and Nowell and if they do, they probably go to different teams.

[jayu70]

PHI in: Bogdanovic, Beverley, Hunter
MIN in: Simmons
ATL in: Beasley, Reid, Okogie, Nowell, one FRP unprotected, one pick swap, 5 second round picks

PHI lineup:
Bev/Maxey
Bogdanovic/Curry
Green/Hunter
Harris / Niang
Embiid/ Drummond

Not a championship squad but a good enough squad to drive the team past where it was i.e. the second round.

ATL reloads with similar talent but accrues assets where it has depth.

Young / Wright / Nowell
Beasley / Lou Will
Heurter / Okogie / Reddish
Collins / Gallinari
Capela / Reid / Dieng

.

If Atlanta is giving up 2 starters in Bogdanovic and especially Hunter (who is highly thought of) they'd want Simmons to start at SF instead of the Minny offerings.

Would they? I don't think they would want Simmons and his contract and tax implications.

As for the trade...

I don't think MN trades Beasley and Nowell and if they do, they probably go to different teams.

Yes
Atlanta is more interested in winning in the present. They'd want the player that can contribute to that immediately than tax implications.
And this is NOT me saying I'd want Simmons, just saying giving up 2 starters and not getting Simmons is not good value for what the Hawks are trying to accomplish on the court.

[SO_MONEY]

If Atlanta is giving up 2 starters in Bogdanovic and especially Hunter (who is highly thought of) they'd want Simmons to start at SF instead of the Minny offerings.

Would they? I don't think they would want Simmons and his contract and tax implications.

As for the trade...

I don't think MN trades Beasley and Nowell and if they do, they probably go to different teams.

Yes
Atlanta is more interested in winning in the present. They'd want the player that can contribute to that immediately than tax implications.
And this is NOT me saying I'd want Simmons, just saying giving up 2 starters and not getting Simmons is not good value for what the Hawks are trying to accomplish on the court.

Yet, that is not the indication out of ATL.

[Krapinsky]

Levert and Brogdon might be two of the only players more injury prone than Embiid in the NBA. Levert in particular has had a rough go and is currently out with a “minor” stress fracture of his back.

Levert is injury prone, but Steph Curry was injury prone until he wasn't. I didn't know about Brogdon. All I know is he is really good.

LeVert has not had a healthy season since his Freshman year of college in 2012.

2013-14: Stress fracture in his foot. Out 3 months.
2014-15: Reinjured the foot. Lost for the season after 18 games.
2015-16: Different "lower leg injury". Lost for the season after 15 games.
2016-17: Rookie year. Missed his first 20 games rehabbing.
2017-18: Missed 10 games with knee and groin injuries. This is the closest he's ever been to healthy.
2018-19: Severe right leg injury (subtalar dislocation of the right foot.) Missed 42 games.
2019-20: Thumb injury cost him 27 games.
2020-21: Kidney and knee problems cost him 26 games.
1 week ago: Diagnosed with a stress fracture in his back.

His body is held together by prayers and duct tape. And he's just not that good. He's a guy that can do a bit of everything, but nothing exceptionally.

Yikes, I see your point.

[jayu70]

Would they? I don't think they would want Simmons and his contract and tax implications.

As for the trade...

I don't think MN trades Beasley and Nowell and if they do, they probably go to different teams.

Yes
Atlanta is more interested in winning in the present. They'd want the player that can contribute to that immediately than tax implications.
And this is NOT me saying I'd want Simmons, just saying giving up 2 starters and not getting Simmons is not good value for what the Hawks are trying to accomplish on the court.

Yet, that is not the indication out of ATL.

What indication? Tell me more.
If you are talking Simmons in particularly - Hawks offered Gallo and Reddish very early on. Philly of course declined and countered with asking for Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu and firsts, Hawks declined. No further movement on that front.
If you are talking Tax - it has already been noted by the GM they expect to be a tax team once Trae's extension kicks in AND as long as they are WINNING. They are currently in extension talks with Kevin Huerter, it remains to be seen if a deal will be reached.

[SO_MONEY]

Yes
Atlanta is more interested in winning in the present. They'd want the player that can contribute to that immediately than tax implications.
And this is NOT me saying I'd want Simmons, just saying giving up 2 starters and not getting Simmons is not good value for what the Hawks are trying to accomplish on the court.

Yet, that is not the indication out of ATL.

What indication? Tell me more.
If you are talking Simmons in particularly - Hawks offered Gallo and Reddish very early on. Philly of course declined and countered with asking for Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu and firsts, Hawks declined. No further movement on that front.
If you are talking Tax - it has already been noted by the GM they expect to be a tax team once Trae's extension kicks in AND as long as they are WINNING. They are currently in extension talks with Kevin Huerter, it remains to be seen if a deal will be reached.

ATL wants to avoid the LUX. This is clear. They have publicly started they don't expect to keep everyone. No I don't think they want Simmons contract without cutting salary elsewhere.

[jayu70]

Yet, that is not the indication out of ATL.

What indication? Tell me more.
If you are talking Simmons in particularly - Hawks offered Gallo and Reddish very early on. Philly of course declined and countered with asking for Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu and firsts, Hawks declined. No further movement on that front.
If you are talking Tax - it has already been noted by the GM they expect to be a tax team once Trae's extension kicks in AND as long as they are WINNING. They are currently in extension talks with Kevin Huerter, it remains to be seen if a deal will be reached.

ATL wants to avoid the LUX. This is clear. They have publicly started they don't expect to keep everyone. No I don't think they want Simmons contract without cutting salary elsewhere.

I think MOST teams want to avoid the Tax especially if not winning.

The tax is going to become a focus for the franchise moving forward because of the team’s lack of salary cap space. Both Schlenk and Tony Ressler believe that paying the tax in a year where they might not believe they have a championship squad doesn’t make sense. But if they believe they’re in title contention, it won’t be an issue.

“We hope that we can be just as successful as we were last year, and then I think if you can get that deep two times in a row, you are a serious contender,” Schlenk said. “Certainly, Tony is willing to pay the tax if we are going to be a contender. I’m probably more conscious of it than Tony is, to be honest with you. It’s my job to manage his money. He’s got a lot more of it than I do, so I worry about it more than he does.”

True - they may not keep EVERYONE - like Gallo who has a $5 mil guarantee next season, Or move Bogdan and extend Huerter. Or they make a consolidation trade for a BETTER player - this is key. Trading for bench players and 1sts isn't the route for the Hawks.
Of course getting Simmons requires matching the outgoing salary.

What won't happen is paying the freight for another team to get Simmons at the cost of Winning.
Beasley and Okogie are just not adequate replacements for Bogdan and Hunter when you consider size and defense on the wings.

[SO_MONEY]

What indication? Tell me more.
If you are talking Simmons in particularly - Hawks offered Gallo and Reddish very early on. Philly of course declined and countered with asking for Hunter, Reddish, Okongwu and firsts, Hawks declined. No further movement on that front.
If you are talking Tax - it has already been noted by the GM they expect to be a tax team once Trae's extension kicks in AND as long as they are WINNING. They are currently in extension talks with Kevin Huerter, it remains to be seen if a deal will be reached.

ATL wants to avoid the LUX. This is clear. They have publicly started they don't expect to keep everyone. No I don't think they want Simmons contract without cutting salary elsewhere.

I think MOST teams want to avoid the Tax especially if not winning.
True - they may not keep EVERYONE - like Gallo who has a $5 mil guarantee next season, Or move Bogdan and extend Huerter.
Of course getting Simmons requires matching the outgoing salary.

What won't happen is paying the freight for another team to get Simmons at the cost of Winning.
Beasley and Okogie are just not adequate replacements for Bogdan and Hunter when you consider size and defense on the wings.

I feel what I have said what is obvious. I honestly don't care a ton how ATL fans views things, mainly because I don't think ATL is in the mix for Simmons.

[jayu70]

ATL wants to avoid the LUX. This is clear. They have publicly started they don't expect to keep everyone. No I don't think they want Simmons contract without cutting salary elsewhere.

I think MOST teams want to avoid the Tax especially if not winning.
True - they may not keep EVERYONE - like Gallo who has a $5 mil guarantee next season, Or move Bogdan and extend Huerter.
Of course getting Simmons requires matching the outgoing salary.

What won't happen is paying the freight for another team to get Simmons at the cost of Winning.
Beasley and Okogie are just not adequate replacements for Bogdan and Hunter when you consider size and defense on the wings.

I feel what I have said what is obvious. I honestly don't care a ton how ATL fans views things, mainly because I don't think ATL is in the mix for Simmons.

Wether in the mix or not for Simmons Atlanta won't be interested in downgrading their team to assist Minny in their endeavor for Simmons as was the trade suggestion.

[SO_MONEY]

I think MOST teams want to avoid the Tax especially if not winning.
True - they may not keep EVERYONE - like Gallo who has a $5 mil guarantee next season, Or move Bogdan and extend Huerter.
Of course getting Simmons requires matching the outgoing salary.

What won't happen is paying the freight for another team to get Simmons at the cost of Winning.
Beasley and Okogie are just not adequate replacements for Bogdan and Hunter when you consider size and defense on the wings.

I feel what I have said what is obvious. I honestly don't care a ton how ATL fans views things, mainly because I don't think ATL is in the mix for Simmons.

Wether in the mix or not for Simmons Atlanta won't be interested in downgrading their team to assist Minny in their endeavor for Simmons as was the trade suggestion.

I think ATL got a good deal there, probably too good.

[jayu70]

I feel what I have said what is obvious. I honestly don't care a ton how ATL fans views things, mainly because I don't think ATL is in the mix for Simmons.

Wether in the mix or not for Simmons Atlanta won't be interested in downgrading their team to assist Minny in their endeavor for Simmons as was the trade suggestion.

I think ATL got a good deal there, probably too good.

Of course you do , but . No deal to be had here that IMPROVES and makes the Hawks better.

[SO_MONEY]

Wether in the mix or not for Simmons Atlanta won't be interested in downgrading their team to assist Minny in their endeavor for Simmons as was the trade suggestion.

I think ATL got a good deal there, probably too good.

Of course you do , but . No deal to be had here that IMPROVES and makes the Hawks better.

Again, my point stands, and why I don't really care. I don't agree with your assessment of what ATL wants. So there is nothing more to say.

[jayu70]

I think ATL got a good deal there, probably too good.

Of course you do , but . No deal to be had here that IMPROVES and makes the Hawks better.

Again, my point stands, and why I don't really care. I don't agree with your assessment of what ATL wants.

My initial point still stands...Hawks aren't trading two starters to assist Minny getting Simmons....and I think can make an assessment of what ATL won't want.
I think this has run it's course. Good talk.

[Takingbaconback]

Who cares what Minny and ATL are getting, Philly is getting Bogdonavic, PatBev, and Hunter for Simmons. That's a horrible return for Simmons.

[Domejandro]

Who cares what Minny and ATL are getting, Philly is getting Bogdonavic, PatBev, and Hunter for Simmons. That's a horrible return for Simmons.

To be fair, the deal completely sucks for Atlanta, but yeah, this is the biggest hangup.

[SO_MONEY]

Who cares what Minny and ATL are getting, Philly is getting Bogdonavic, PatBev, and Hunter for Simmons. That's a horrible return for Simmons.

To be fair, the deal completely sucks for Atlanta, but yeah, this is the biggest hangup.

I think it is great for ATL. The only issue I see is Reid and Nowell should go to a third team to get a player(s) locked in on the cheap. But the value is definitely there. They get out of a bad contract, get young talent, get cap relief, get picks.