NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[ZB9]

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[The_Hater]

The root cause? That's a big assumption on your part.

He’s correct and it’s well documented and supported by facts. We just happen to live in a world today where people research for so-called alternative facts to justify their own preconceived ideas and opinions. The experts in this field have already done that research for you.

[infinite11285]

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This is called spin, which is another form of propaganda. It's no secret that Texas is coming down from one of the worst COVID spikes since the pandemic began, and yet, still leads the nation in daily infections, hospitalizations, and COVID deaths. Again, please stop posting tweets from unverified accounts. The fact that things are trending down is excellent, but it also reflects Texas' laissez-faire approach to mitigating viral spread. With that said, I hope things continue to trend downward.

I would also like to point out that the FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine on Aug 23rd, and how that correlates with the first graph when the Sept spike plateaued and fell.

[ZB9]

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This is called spin, which is another form of propaganda.

Spin? Are you kidding me? I simply posted tweets that included stats, facts, graphs, sources stating that hospitalizations are going down. I didn't spin anything.

yet, still leads the nation in daily infections, hospitalizations, and COVID deaths.

That is not true at all, er i mean it's "misinformation".

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-hospitalization-rates-august-2.html

Again, please stop posting tweets from unverified accounts.

tweets are the easiest thing to post here, just trying to back up my statements with stats, numbers, graphs, sources, etc. More people here should try to back up some of their statements with some facts.

but don't worry i wont be in here much going forward

The fact that things are trending down is excellent

Yea certainly no need for any mandates that is for sure.

Leftists should stay away from Texas. It's not safe here. It's like a combination of Mad Max beyond thunderdome and the Walking Dead. Bodies are everywhere. Leftists should stay away and remain in their bubbles.

[bisme37]

So basically it's about some folks just don't want to do anything nasty lib leftists do. If the govt and science community said not to take the vaccine they'd be rioting over how we're being deprived of the life saving vaccine.

[infinite11285]

Spin? Are you kidding me? I simply posted tweets that included stats, facts, graphs, sources stating that hospitalizations are going down. I didn't spin anything.

Yes, you did post tweets that included a few graphs from various sources detailing a downward trend of COVID statistics; but, it came after your post that attempted to insinuate that COVID was no longer an issue in Texas despite a relaxed approach to dealing with the virus. I interpreted that as an attempt to substantiate your former post with your latter post. That's the spin I was referring to.

That is not true at all, er i mean it's "misinformation".

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-hospitalization-rates-august-2.html

No, it's not misinformation at all. See here and filter highest-to-lowest on any column detailing daily average cases, hospitalizations, or deaths--Texas ranks at the top in every category.

The source you cited only details 14-day changes, which is NOT the same as the all-encompassing daily average ranking in the source I provided above. The source you cited even states the limited scope of data reported at the top of the page:

Data is taken from HHS and was last updated Oct. 8. States are listed in order of hospitalization rate percent increase over the last two weeks.

tweets are the easiest thing to post here, just trying to back up my statements with stats, numbers, graphs, sources, etc. More people here should try to back up some of their statements with some facts.

Honestly, the tweets you've presented throughout the thread are filled with misleading or flat-out false information. Several other posters have pointed that out throughout the thread. Those tweets, mostly from unverified sources, were largely devoid of facts, hence my request to not provide information from unverified sources.

It takes the same amount of time/clicks to post a link from a verified source as a tweet from an unverified source. Unverified sources, especially on Twitter, are responsible for the significant bulk of circling misinformation on social media. I've even seen some tweets from accounts run by bots, in this thread.

The rest of your post about "liberal leftists" parallels similar socially dividing talking points from political media that I won't address due to its overall irrelevance to my points to you.

[ZB9]

Spin? Are you kidding me? I simply posted tweets that included stats, facts, graphs, sources stating that hospitalizations are going down. I didn't spin anything.

Yes, you did post tweets that included a few graphs from various sources detailing a downward trend of COVID statistics; but, it came after your post that attempted to insinuate that COVID was no longer an issue in Texas despite a relaxed approach to dealing with the virus. That's the spin I was referring to.

That is not true at all, er i mean it's "misinformation".

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-covid-19-hospitalization-rates-august-2.html

No, it's not misinformation at all. See here and filter highest-to-lowest on any column detailing daily average cases, hospitalizations, or deaths--Texas ranks at the top in every category.

The source you cited only details 14-day changes, which is NOT the same as the all-encompassing daily average ranking in the source I provided above. In the source you cited, it even states the scope of data reported is limited at the top of the page:

Data is taken from HHS and was last updated Oct. 8. States are listed in order of hospitalization rate percent increase over the last two weeks.

tweets are the easiest thing to post here, just trying to back up my statements with stats, numbers, graphs, sources, etc. More people here should try to back up some of their statements with some facts.

Honestly, the tweets you've presented throughout the thread are filled with misleading or flat-out false information. Several other posters have pointed that out throughout the thread. Those tweets, from unverified sources, were largely devoid of facts, hence my request to not provide information from unverified sources.

It takes the same amount of time/clicks to post a link from a verified source as a tweet from an unverified source. Unverified sources, especially on Twitter, are responsible for the significant bulk of circling misinformation on social media. I've even seen some tweets from accounts run by bots, in this thread.

I have to subscribe to the NYTimes to see your source. It would be easier if you just post it in a tweet form so that i can actually see it. The source that i quoted stated that no Texas is not leading in hospitalizations or death right now, not even close.

Hospitalizations are the best thing to look at and they have been going down for Texas for 31 straight days. Mandates are clearly not needed to reduce hospitalizations.

Regardless, there is still less than a 5 percent chance that you will have to go to the hospital if you contract covid. Many people that listen to the fear mongering think that number is much much higher. A recent study stated that 41 percent of democrats think that 50 percent of people that catch covid are hospitalized. 50 percent is a lot different than the reality which is less than 5 percent.

The rest of your post about "liberal leftists" parallels similar socially dividing talking points from political media that I won't address due to its overall irrelevance to my points to you.

Not liberals, i said leftists. There is a big difference between classic liberals and leftists. Im a liberal, not a leftist.

Leftists are mainly the ones trying to shut down the world over covid and making covid the only thing that matters. Civil rights and freedoms don't matter, only covid. Some are even trying to get covid to zero percent, which is impossible.

[Texas Chuck]

Not liberals, i said leftists. There is a big difference between classic liberals and leftists. Im a liberal, not a leftist.

Leftists are the ones trying to shut down the world over covid and making covid the only thing that matters. Civil rights and freedoms don't matter, only covid. Some are even trying to get covid to zero percent, which is impossible.

Labels are stupid.

But I find it interesting how many people with clear conservative ideology in everything they post seem so ashamed to have that label. It doesn't make sense. If you believe this strongly in conservative positions you should be proud to call yourself conservative.

And those same people who you claim don't care about civil rights and freedom are the same people fighting for a woman's right to choose and for voting rights.

And the Venn Diagram of anti Covid vaxxers and those in favor of voter suppression and preventing women from obtaining abortions almost completely overlap.

Being for public health doesn't make you against freedom. In fact, it literally means the opposite. This opposition to basic health measures is what has made this pandemic and its restrictions last longer. You are supporting the lockdowns and the mandates with your propaganda spread trying to discourage basic decency and teamwork.

If your concern is really getting your life back to normal you should be all over this thread and your social and all your contacts in your phone encouraging vaccination.

But you don't really want that. You want to tilt against windmills because your side has told you to. The side you are embarrassed to admit you are on.

[ZB9]

Not liberals, i said leftists. There is a big difference between classic liberals and leftists. Im a liberal, not a leftist.

Leftists are the ones trying to shut down the world over covid and making covid the only thing that matters. Civil rights and freedoms don't matter, only covid. Some are even trying to get covid to zero percent, which is impossible.

Labels are stupid.

But I find it interesting how many people with clear conservative ideology in everything they post seem so ashamed to have that label. It doesn't make sense. If you believe this strongly in conservative positions you should be proud to call yourself conservative.

Well im conservative about some things (limited govt) and liberal about other things (social issues) fyi fwiw. Idk how anyone can agree with everything each "side" says or does.

Is that why Democrats have such cognitive dissonance on this vaccine issue? They think it's an anti Trump thing? Well i hate to tell you this but Trump is the main reason why these vaccines were able to be rushed out so fast. He has demanded credit for the vaccines. He encourages people to take them.

And those same people who you claim don't care about civil rights and freedom are the same people fighting for a woman's right to choose and for voting rights.

yea i basically think the govt should stay out of peoples business and leave people alone. That includes the woman's right to choose, as long as it's not late term. but abortion is an issue that i dont really get involved in.

I definitely care about civil rights, one main reason why im so against mandates and government over reach and authoritarianism regarding covid. Those people are picking and choosing which civil rights are ok to ignore, all because of covid.

And the Venn Diagram of anti Covid vaxxers and those in favor of voter suppression and preventing women from obtaining abortions almost completely overlap.

Voter suppression? Do you mean showing an ID to vote? So that is a horrible travesty, but having to show vax papers to participate in society is ok?

Do you know the percentage of minorities that are vaxxed? It's less than 30 percent last i checked. Black people especially have good reason not to trust anything the govt says when it comes to medicine or anything else. However, many are going to be kept from certain aspects of society in certain areas because of these mandates.

Being for public health doesn't make you against freedom. In fact, it literally means the opposite. This opposition to basic health measures is what has made this pandemic and its restrictions last longer. You are supporting the lockdowns and the mandates with your propaganda spread trying to discourage basic decency and teamwork.

I am for public health. What basic health measures are you talking about? There are a lot of public health issues that are being neglected because of the covid obsession. Covid seems to be the only thing that matters yet it's not in the top 5 causes of death. Other things are being neglected like heart health, cancer screenings, mental health, dental health, etc. etc...

The mandates and lockdowns have been going on for quite a while. They dont actually have anything to do with the virus anymore. Do you honestly think that the government is just trying to protect people? Do you think that you can fascist a virus away?

If your concern is really getting your life back to normal you should be all over this thread and your social and all your contacts in your phone encouraging vaccination.

I live in Texas and my life is back to normal. We have been living normal in Texas for a while now.

I feel bad for people in once great states and countries like Australia, California, New York, Canada.

But you don't really want that. You want to tilt against windmills because your side has told you to. The side you are embarrassed to admit you are on.

Well since you asked about sides, the only reason im a Republican is because the Democrats have gone bat ish crazy. I voted for Bill Clinton, Obama twice, fyi fwiw but it's not the same party anymore. They are going full commie. The fact that the dems went crazy is the reason why we got Trump in the first place and he actually seems a lot better right now compared to Biden.

Covid is revealing a lot of the authoritarian tendencies of the dem side and it's going to drive even more people away. They cant help but overplay their hand, to go to far, to over reach.

[bisme37]

It's not surprising but very unfortunate imo that this is a political issue at all. My politics are pretty dang moderate fwiw, but regardless of that, my decision to get vaccinated was not political in the least. It was just run-of-the-mill common sense decision making.

I could either have zero protection against a contagious and harmful virus, or I could go to Walgreens for 5 minutes. Easy call.

[ItsDanger]

The root cause? That's a big assumption on your part.

He’s correct and it’s well documented and supported by facts. Why just happen to live in a world today where people research for so-called alternative facts to justify their own preconceived ideas and opinions. The experts in this field have already done that.

LOL, "experts" is loosely used these days. "alternative"? "preconceived"? The data from around the world suggest that your root cause theory is bogus.

[lakerz12]

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This is called spin, which is another form of propaganda. It's no secret that Texas is coming down from one of the worst COVID spikes since the pandemic began, and yet, still leads the nation in daily infections, hospitalizations, and COVID deaths. Again, please stop posting tweets from unverified accounts. The fact that things are trending down is excellent, but it also reflects Texas' laissez-faire approach to mitigating viral spread. With that said, I hope things continue to trend downward.

I would also like to point out that the FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine on Aug 23rd, and how that correlates with the first graph when the Sept spike plateaued and fell.

Doesn’t California have more overall cases and deaths than Texas?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I.e. can you actually prove/demonstrate that a “Texas' laissez-faire approach to mitigating viral spread” is the real culprit here?

Isn’t that actually political/biased/lazy unsubstantiated nonsense?

[DoItALL9]

Have the other unvaccinated players besides Kyrie in the league been identified?

Sent from my LM-G710 using RealGM mobile app

[FNQ]

Doesn’t California have more overall cases and deaths than Texas?

California: 40m people
Texas: 29m people

California: 118.5 cases per 1000 people (40th of 50 states)
Texas: 142.6 cases per 1000 people (24th of 50 states)

California: 1.78 deaths per 1000 people (34th)
Texas: 2.35 deaths per 1000 people (17th)

Texas has far more cases and deaths per person than CA despite way less population density. Also, CA spiked, along with the rest of the country, post Thanksgiving 2020. CA's highest number was 61,969. That number was an outlier, as the 2nd highest number was 51,478. The highest CA has peaked since the Delta variant? 17,785.

Texas followed a similar pattern, but with one key difference: they allowed it to happen again, and the simultaneously want praise for almost falling back to pre-spike levels, something that almost every state did well before them while not causing nearly as many deaths. Texas' peak post Nov'20 was 32,195 cases (and that was an outlier also, their 2nd highest was 27,910). On September 9th, 2021, they hit 27,979.

Pretty hard to justify that as favorable

[michaelm]

It's absolutely appalling someone would try and equate a vaccine with rape. Of course when you realize you have no real arguments you attempt this kind of blatantly false correlation to try and claim some sort of moral high ground you don't actually possess.

But let's do better please.

And the irony of repeating the same talking points over and over that every other anti-vaxxer does while labeling others sheep is so rich. Just so incredibly rich.

Really? What's the difference between forcing an injection and forcing sex? You do realize that there's a history of forced breeding programs for the greater good of society? How is that different from forced injections for the greater good of society? And like I said, this stuff has ACTUALLY happened. No one is speaking theoretically here. The exact same worldview has led to just that.

No one is forcing anyone to be vaccinated, except maybe the Army, and if they are doing so the soldiers concerned should have an option to leave imo.

[infinite11285]

Doesn’t California have more overall cases and deaths than Texas?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I.e. can you actually prove/demonstrate that a “Texas' laissez-faire approach to mitigating viral spread” is the real culprit here?

Isn’t that actually political/biased/lazy unsubstantiated nonsense?

Read our posts and the evolution of the entire conversation. I stated that Texas is currently reporting the highest daily averages for cases, infections, and deaths in the country after a previous poster claimed that Texas’ numbers are “low” and everything is essentially “back to normal.” I also compared Texas’ approach to COVID to Maryland, which had stricter mask mandates and higher vaccination rates than CA. The point of the comparison was to demonstrate that mandates and vaccines appear to produce positive results.

[michaelm]

Doesn’t California have more overall cases and deaths than Texas?

California: 40m people
Texas: 29m people

California: 118.5 cases per 1000 people (40th of 50 states)
Texas: 142.6 cases per 1000 people (24th of 50 states)

California: 1.78 deaths per 1000 people (34th)
Texas: 2.35 deaths per 1000 people (17th)

Texas has far more cases and deaths per person than CA despite way less population density. Also, CA spiked, along with the rest of the country, post Thanksgiving 2020. CA's highest number was 61,969. That number was an outlier, as the 2nd highest number was 51,478. The highest CA has peaked since the Delta variant? 17,785.

Texas followed a similar pattern, but with one key difference: they allowed it to happen again, and the simultaneously want praise for almost falling back to pre-spike levels, something that almost every state did well before them while not causing nearly as many deaths. Texas' peak post Nov'20 was 32,195 cases (and that was an outlier also, their 2nd highest was 27,910). On September 9th, 2021, they hit 27,979.

Pretty hard to justify that as favorable

We are now up to page 74, and still despite repeated requests no data to support the anti-vax position, nothing except tawdry sophistry and repetition of the tawdry sophistry of others including the posting of tweets from such people.

I am quite happy myself to consider the question of vaccine mandates separately from the issue of the efficacy of corona virus vaccines, but perhaps oddly those who claim to be opposed to vaccine mandates on general philosophical grounds, despite widespread pre-existing health and safety mandates including vaccination requirements for health workers, seem to also feel obliged to post nonsense about the vaccines.

[michaelm]

It's not surprising but very unfortunate imo that this is a political issue at all. My politics are pretty dang moderate fwiw, but regardless of that, my decision to get vaccinated was not political in the least. It was just run-of-the-mill common sense decision making.

I could either have zero protection against a contagious and harmful virus, or I could go to Walgreens for 5 minutes. Easy call.

What is undeniable is that it is a political issue in the USA.

[BloodNinja]

I live in Texas and my life is back to normal. We have been living normal in Texas for a while now.

I feel bad for people in once great states and countries like Australia, California, New York, Canada.

Don't. We have free health care, our power doesn't go out in the winter, we have about 1500 deaths from Covid v 68,000 for just Texas alone, and we have more FREEDOM than you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World

[michaelm]

I live in Texas and my life is back to normal. We have been living normal in Texas for a while now.

I feel bad for people in once great states and countries like Australia, California, New York, Canada.

Don't. We have free health care, our power doesn't go out in the winter, we have about 1500 deaths from Covid v 68,000 for just Texas alone, and we have more FREEDOM than you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World

Those rankings were obviously devised by dirty stinking communists.
(EDIT I was aware of the rankings and like you thought of them immediately when the freedom thing was raised in regard to Australia but decided not to post them. Even if accepted at face value most rankings seem to conclude that the USA is about as free a democracy as can be managed with a population of 330 million people. Suffice it to say the freedom for working people to be paid $5- or $10- an hour and have no health care is not a freedom highly valued in Australia though).