NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[ZB9]

Doesn’t California have more overall cases and deaths than Texas?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I.e. can you actually prove/demonstrate that a “Texas' laissez-faire approach to mitigating viral spread” is the real culprit here?

Isn’t that actually political/biased/lazy unsubstantiated nonsense?

Read our posts and the evolution of the entire conversation. I stated that Texas is currently reporting the highest daily averages for cases, infections, and deaths in the country after a previous poster claimed that Texas’ numbers are “low” and everything is essentially “back to normal.” I also compared Texas’ approach to COVID to Maryland, which had stricter mask mandates and higher vaccination rates than CA. The point of the comparison was to demonstrate that mandates and vaccines appear to produce positive results.

What i said was there is not a covid crisis in Texas despite no mandates and that is true. There isnt a covid crisis here.

Hospitalizations have been decreasing for 31 straight days despite no mandates. Your claim that Texas has the highest daily hospitalizations and deaths is false per capita.

Cripes, covid is all yall care about. Like i said earlier, there is only a 1 to 5 percent chance of someone catching covid being hospitalized. 78 percent of those hospitalized for covid are obese. Most of those hospitalized also have other health issues. You think all healthy people and the entire state should be locked down for that? Thankfully, there arent insane leftists running Texas and there wont be mandates or lockdowns here. The people at risk can quarantine but the rest of us will live life.

You know, there are other risks besides covid. For example, thousands of people die from car wrecks every year. Im sure if the speed limit was lowered to 20 miles per hour that many lives would be saved. Im sure if cars were outlawed, many lives would be saved and the environment would be better off. Of course, that is not something that should or will happen in reality.

Anyone who still thinks that lockdowns and mandates are about protecting people from a virus with a 99.97 average survival rate for those under 65 is very naive. It's not about the virus any more. Certain people are drunk with power and control. Certain people think they can control everything and they arent going to give that control up when numbers go down. They will find other reasons and create other emergencies.

Look at California, you say their numbers are down, but yet they are adding MORE lockdowns and mandates, not less. They are about to force school kids to get jabbed. People there still have to wear masks everywhere they go despite lower numbers. Do they want to get covid to zero because that is impossible. Where does it end? Of course, they know it's impossible to get covid numbers to zero but it's not actually about covid. Covid is just the excuse that allowed them to be opportunistic.

They are using fear mongering to control the populace and they wont stop until more people stop going along with it.

[HeartBreakKid]

the guy most vocal about this is a libertarian. bias much? not sure why people are even humoring this guy, most of his posts are usually just comparing things that are not actually analogous to the covid pandemic. There are like 7 or 8 different things that would make car crashes non analogous to COVID, the sad thing is I cannot tell if it's intellectual dishonesty or if he really has such surface level logic that he thinks it's a good comparison.

not to mention like (most libertarians in USA), the guy has almost no perspective of things outside of USA. Just random propaganda about the man trying to control the people.

It's common sense that if a global pandemic broke out there would be incentives for mass vaccinations.

I live in a country where everyone wears masks and we DID get covid down to zero, in both 2021 and 2020. Believe it or not, if people actually work hard for something as a collective for a couple months, then you can reap the benefits of not having a pandemic in your country. Most countries just have a decent chunk of people who are selfish, and try to make illogical excuses to justify that they are just being babies.

In fact, the lack of policy from the federal government in USA is exactly why they had such harsh problems with COVID. Libertarians complaining that there are too much policy in USA about COVID are hilarious, there was almost no hard rules preventing someone from spreading COVID in USA on a federal level.

Trying to say that it's impossible to get rid of COVID in a country is just flat out false.

People like ZB9 and their lack of understanding of epidemiology (does USA even have a epidemiology department on the federal level before the pandemic? I honestly do not know), is exactly why COVID became a big problem when it could have been easily controlled.

[xdrta+]

Of course, they know it's impossible to get covid numbers to zero but it's not actually about covid. Covid is just the excuse that allowed them to be opportunistic.

They are using fear mongering to control the populace and they wont stop until more people stop going along with it.

This makes even less sense than the rest of the stuff you post. Amazing.

[HeartBreakKid]

the guy most vocal about this is a libertarian. bias much? not sure why people are even humoring this guy, most of his posts are usually just comparing things that are not actually analogous to the covid pandemic. There are like 7 or 8 different things that would make car crashes non analogous to COVID, the sad thing is I cannot tell if it's a lack of intellectual dishonesty or if he really has such surface level logic that he thinks it's a good comparison.

not to mention like (most libertarians in USA), the guy has almost no perspective of things outside of USA. Just random propaganda about the man trying to control the people.

It's common sense that if a global pandemic broke out there would be incentives for mass vaccinations.

I live in a country where everyone wears masks and we DID get covid down to zero, in both 2021 and 2020. Believe it or not, if people actually work hard for something as a collective for a couple months, then you can reap the benefits of not having a pandemic in your country. Most countries just have a decent chunk of people who are selfish, and try to make illogical excuses to justify that they are just being babies.

Trying to say that it's impossible to get rid of COVID in a country is just flat out false.

People like ZB9 and their lack of understanding of epidemiology (does USA even have a epidemiology department on the federal level before the pandemic? I honestly do not know), is exactly why COVID became a big problem when it could have been easily controlled.

I said more the topic than I should have because I was annoyed by how much ignorance was in the post.

But cliff version because I likely won't reply to anything that guy has to say or the other libertarian guy


Do not argue about vaccinations or any type of policy with a libertarian. It's totally pointless.

[ecogen]

the guy most vocal about this is a libertarian. bias much? not sure why people are even humoring this guy, most of his posts are usually just comparing things that are not actually analogous to the covid pandemic. There are like 7 or 8 different things that would make car crashes non analogous to COVID, the sad thing is I cannot tell if it's a lack of intellectual dishonesty or if he really has such surface level logic that he thinks it's a good comparison.

not to mention like (most libertarians in USA), the guy has almost no perspective of things outside of USA. Just random propaganda about the man trying to control the people.

It's common sense that if a global pandemic broke out there would be incentives for mass vaccinations.

I live in a country where everyone wears masks and we DID get covid down to zero, in both 2021 and 2020. Believe it or not, if people actually work hard for something as a collective for a couple months, then you can reap the benefits of not having a pandemic in your country. Most countries just have a decent chunk of people who are selfish, and try to make illogical excuses to justify that they are just being babies.

Trying to say that it's impossible to get rid of COVID in a country is just flat out false.

People like ZB9 and their lack of understanding of epidemiology (does USA even have a epidemiology department on the federal level before the pandemic? I honestly do not know), is exactly why COVID became a big problem when it could have been easily controlled.

I said more the topic than I should have because I was annoyed by how much ignorance was in the post.

But cliff version because I likely won't reply to anything that guy has to say or the other libertarian guy


Do not argue about vaccinations or any type of policy with a libertarian. It's totally pointless.

US "libertarians" are living memes, some of the most ignorant people I've ever spoken to regardless of subject.

[FNQ]

What i said was there is not a covid crisis in Texas despite no mandates and that is true. There isnt a covid crisis here.

30 days ago you had your 2nd highest new cases and approached your highest death count too. Peaked at 467 in a day in December 2020, peaked at 443 September 23rd, about 20 days ago.

Hospitalizations have been decreasing for 31 straight days despite no mandates. Your claim that Texas has the highest daily hospitalizations and deaths is false per capita.

Texas went from having 1300 cases to start July up to 28000 cases in early September. You are correct in saying that they aren't the highest %-wise, because other anti-vaxxer led states are beating you there: Tennessee, North Dakota, Florida, South Carolina, South Dakota, Arkansas, Mississippi make up the top 7. However that's not to understate the massive spike that Texas had, and how it went much worse than the rest of the country.

See, as I said above, Texas went from 1300 to 28000 cases a day, a 2150% increase. The US as a whole in the exact same timeframe went from 18000 cases a day to 173000 cases per day, a 961% increase. Texas basically did 2.5x worse than the conglomerated average in the country.

Cripes, covid is all yall care about. Like i said earlier, there is only a 1 to 5 percent chance of someone catching covid being hospitalized. 78 percent of those hospitalized for covid are obese. Most of those hospitalized also have other health issues. You think all healthy people and the entire state should be locked down for that? Thankfully, there arent insane leftists running Texas and there wont be mandates here. The people at risk can quarantine but the rest of us will live life.

It's the COVID thread. What do you want to talk about - the weather? Always good to hear pitches for lightweight eugenics though - overweight people and immunodeficient people, tough luck, but I'd really rather make up claims over and over than help out in any way.

You know, there are other risks besides covid. For example, thousands of people die from car wrecks every year. Im sure if the speed limit was lowered to 20 miles per hour that many lives would be saved. Im sure if cars were outlawed, many lives would be saved and the environment would be better off. Of course, that is not something that should or will happen in reality.

Today in RGM antivaxx history: vaccine mandates to get into certain places is basically rape, and basically the same as outlawing cars, because its a slippery slope.

Anyone who still thinks that lockdowns and mandates are about protecting people from a virus with a 99.97 average survival rate for those under 65 is very naive. It's not about the virus any more. Certain people are drunk with power and control. Certain people think they can control everything and they arent going to give that control up when numbers go down. They will find other reasons and create other emergencies.

It's about preventable deaths and making sure our healthcare system isnt overburdened taking care of the sick so that we can save the most lives possible. Of course your theory of politicians laughing and deciding that controlling you is just good old fashioned fun is certainly a valid concern too.

Look at California, you say their numbers are down, but yet they are adding MORE lockdowns and mandates, not less. They are about to force school kids to get jabbed. People there still have to wear masks everywhere they go despite lower numbers. Do they want to get covid to zero because that is impossible. Of course, they know it's impossible to get covid numbers to zero but it's not actually about covid. Covid is just the excuse that allowed them to be opportunistic.

They are using fear mongering to control the populace and they wont stop until more people stop going along with it.

California's numbers started spiking slightly (for context, we went from 1500 to 18000 in the same time frame as referenced above, a spike of 1200%) and did so higher than the country's average, even though before this we had one of the lowest %s. And so our local government took action, and despite having the highest population and more pop density than states like TX and FL, we curbed our cases and deaths significantly better than those 2 states. We have 11m more people in CA, and we have 50% of the deaths of TX per day at peak Delta.

Opportunistic indeed. That's 220 families a day that don't have to go through the death of a loved one.

[FNQ]

Im a liberal, not a leftist.

Well since you asked about sides, the only reason im a Republican

Words mean things man... you dont just get to say whatever and change the definition of things

[FNQ]

Also just to really hammer home the comp of CA to TX:

California has had 4.7m cases of COVID reported, 70k deaths, out of 95.1m tests administered, with 39 million Californians
Texas has had 4.1m cases of COVID reported, 68k deaths, out of 43.1m tests administered, with 28 million Texans

Really dont think its in your best interest to keep pushing the comparison, or perhaps even posting at all

[ZB9]

Wow your country got covid cases to zero? That's amazing. You actually "defeated" the virus.

I bet you still have mandates and lockdowns and wear masks though. Im curious when that ends.

[michaelm]

Wow your country got covid cases to zero? That's amazing. You actually "defeated" the virus.

I bet you still have mandates and lockdowns and wear masks though. Im curious when that ends.

Tomorrow.

A staged process begins in NSW then, now we have a full vaccination rate over 70% for those aged over 16, further withdrawal of restrictions is planned when we reach 80% full vaccination expected to be within 10 days or so, and withdrawal of basically all restrictions including for the unvaccinated is scheduled for December1. Seeing we have a 91% first dose vaccination rate now, the fully vaccinated rate is anticipated to be over 90% by then. Most of those vaccinated were not subject to mandates, although mandates have been applied to some jobs considered high risk, such as a mandate for health workers which came into force this month to have at least commenced the vaccination process/have had a first jab.

[HeartBreakKid]

Wow your country got covid cases to zero? That's amazing. You actually "defeated" the virus.

I bet you still have mandates and lockdowns and wear masks though. Im curious when that ends.

Country never went into lockdown, and we actually went a year without having to wear masks - and already do not need to wear masks in most situations as of this week. Mask restrictions will be fully gone within this month - but people will still wear masks, because why on earth wouldn't you?

Country was fully functional and normal for a full year, then COVID broke out finally this year, and now it's already back to fully functional after a 2 or 3 months of you know - actually using proven data to beat the virus (and common sense, quite frankly).

[michaelm]

Wow your country got covid cases to zero? That's amazing. You actually "defeated" the virus.

I bet you still have mandates and lockdowns and wear masks though. Im curious when that ends.

Country never went into lockdown, and we actually went a year without having to wear masks - and already do not need to wear masks in most situations as of this week. Mask restrictions will be fully gone within this month - but people will still wear masks, because why on earth wouldn't you?

Country was fully functional and normal for a full year, then COVID broke out finally this year, and now it's already back to fully functional after a 2 or 3 months of you know - actually using proven data to beat the virus (and common sense, quite frankly).

Not completely accurate, but not far off. No national lockdown after the very early stages of the pandemic when no-one anywhere had any idea how the thing would progress, a lockdown in one state where the original version of the virus got into aged care facilities, a lockdown of one part of Sydney for a few weeks and brief local lockdowns in other states and territories to get back to Covid zero. In NSW Covid zero was mostly maintained with no further lockdowns prior to the advent of the delta variant by minimal restrictions and good contact tracing.

We still have Covid zero and no lockdown in 4 of 6 states and 1 of 2 territories now, but once the delta variant got into the 2 most populous states, of which Sydney and Melbourne are the capitals, in June (pretty much from one unvaccinated limousine driver involved in transport of international travellers/aircrew who may not have been wearing a mask either) it soon became apparent that Covid zero was not an option with the delta variant once it got going in cities with populations of 5 million or so, hence pivoting to a vaccination strategy. At worst going forward we will have vaccinated people catching Covid, rarely going to hospital or dying, then having very strong immunity. There are plans for re-vaccination of the vulnerable/elderly and immunosuppressed and the likes of health workers.

Like you have never got the mask thing, particularly in regard to standard surgical masks which were quite good against the original variant where droplet transmission was the major mechanism of transmission. If a standard surgical mask is enough to restrict breathing significantly you probably shouldn't be out and about in a respiratory virus pandemic.

[Neutral 123]

Well when you outright deny some of the basic benefits of getting vaccinated i can see why you would be confused

Suspected benefits. That has NOT been proven sufficiently that the so called experts are saying this with certainty.
The current vaccines are promised to reduce serious disease.... That's it.

People who are vaccinated against Covid-19 are less likely to spread the virus even if they become infected, a new study finds, adding to a growing body of evidence that vaccines can reduce transmission ( . . . )

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

This is exactly what I said. There are studies that suggest that but it isn't proven sufficiently for that to be stated officially as a benefit.

[Neutral 123]

Wow your country got covid cases to zero? That's amazing. You actually "defeated" the virus.

I bet you still have mandates and lockdowns and wear masks though. Im curious when that ends.

Tomorrow.

A staged process begins in NSW then, now we have a full vaccination rate over 70% for those aged over 16, further withdrawal of restrictions is planned when we reach 80% full vaccination expected to be within 10 days or so, and withdrawal of basically all restrictions including for the unvaccinated is scheduled for December1. Seeing we have a 91% first dose vaccination rate now, the fully vaccinated rate is anticipated to be over 90% by then. Most of those vaccinated were not subject to mandates, although mandates have been applied to some jobs considered high risk, such as a mandate for health workers which came into force this month to have at least commenced the vaccination process/have had a first jab.

Australia? Man... Andrew Bogut has a lot to say about his govt.

[Neutral 123]

Im a liberal, not a leftist.

Well since you asked about sides, the only reason im a Republican

Words mean things man... you dont just get to say whatever and change the definition of things

That's what leftists do. A classical liberal believes in individual rights. The word liberal has been changed in America to mean radical leftist. Anyone who sees nothing wrong with these lockdown measures should consider themselves a leftist.

[michaelm]

Suspected benefits. That has NOT been proven sufficiently that the so called experts are saying this with certainty.
The current vaccines are promised to reduce serious disease.... That's it.

People who are vaccinated against Covid-19 are less likely to spread the virus even if they become infected, a new study finds, adding to a growing body of evidence that vaccines can reduce transmission ( . . . )

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

This is exactly what I said. There are studies that suggest that but it isn't proven sufficiently for that to be stated officially as a benefit.

Still came back here though didn't he ?, and I could suggest the corona virus pandemic is not his area of particular expertise just as is the case with you.

I see no reply from you to measures you claim don't work having absolutely worked in Australia. Similar population to Texas, 1500 deaths, against 98,000 I am told in Texas. I actually have doubts myself about the risk/benefit ratio of complete lockdowns, which is not the same as sensible measures not working.

We also have 68% first dose vaccination of 12 - 15 years olds, also something I have doubts about (scientifically in this case) myself, but rather than vaccine hesitation and mandates being required there were widespread complaints about vaccination not being available for them until recently. I guess virtually none of them being NBA players was probably helpful.

[Neutral 123]

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583

This is exactly what I said. There are studies that suggest that but it isn't proven sufficiently for that to be stated officially as a benefit.

Still came back here though didn't he ?, and just like you I would suggest the corona virus pandemic is not his area of particular expertise.

I see no reply from you to the absolute facts that things you claim don't work have absolutely worked in Australia.

I actually have doubts myself about the risk/befit ratio of complete lockdowns, which is not the same as sensible measures not working.

We also have 68% first dose vaccination of 12 - 15 years olds, something I have my doubts about scientifically, but rather than vaccine hesitation and mandates being required there were widespread complaints about vaccination not being available for them until recently. I guess virtually none of them being NBA players was probably helpful.

Well 5-11 year old forced vaccinations are coming, and I won't be surprised if they force this on infants. The problem is you have your doubts but have agreed to give up any right to disagree. You guys are still obsessed with 'the science' and refuse to address the fact that your right to choose is being taken away.

Also, it is unscientific to merely look at Covid. You must look at the costs in terms of lives and wealth when it comes to lockdowns themselves. Drug ODs have skyrocketed in many countries. People are struggling with mental health issues, young people, because of these lockdowns.

[michaelm]

This is exactly what I said. There are studies that suggest that but it isn't proven sufficiently for that to be stated officially as a benefit.

Still came back here though didn't he ?, and just like you I would suggest the corona virus pandemic is not his area of particular expertise.

I see no reply from you to the absolute facts that things you claim don't work have absolutely worked in Australia.

I actually have doubts myself about the risk/befit ratio of complete lockdowns, which is not the same as sensible measures not working.

We also have 68% first dose vaccination of 12 - 15 years olds, something I have my doubts about scientifically, but rather than vaccine hesitation and mandates being required there were widespread complaints about vaccination not being available for them until recently. I guess virtually none of them being NBA players was probably helpful.

Well 5-11 year old forced vaccinations are coming, and I won't be surprised if they force this on infants. The problem is you have your doubts but have agreed to give up any right to disagree. You guys are still obsessed with 'the science' and refuse to address the fact that your right to choose is being taken away.

Also, it is unscientific to merely look at Covid. You must look at the costs in terms of lives and wealth when it comes to lockdowns themselves. Drug ODs have skyrocketed in many countries. People are struggling with mental health issues, young people, because of these lockdowns.

Unsurprisingly you don't appear to be able to read. No mandates at all in Australia for 12 to 15 year olds, and the current overall vaccination rate has been achieved mainly without mandates, with even mandates for health workers coming into force only this month, as I said. I also actually said I generally disagree with lockdowns as well, including for some of the reasons you list.

[Neutral 123]

Still came back here though didn't he ?, and just like you I would suggest the corona virus pandemic is not his area of particular expertise.

I see no reply from you to the absolute facts that things you claim don't work have absolutely worked in Australia.

I actually have doubts myself about the risk/befit ratio of complete lockdowns, which is not the same as sensible measures not working.

We also have 68% first dose vaccination of 12 - 15 years olds, something I have my doubts about scientifically, but rather than vaccine hesitation and mandates being required there were widespread complaints about vaccination not being available for them until recently. I guess virtually none of them being NBA players was probably helpful.

Well 5-11 year old forced vaccinations are coming, and I won't be surprised if they force this on infants. The problem is you have your doubts but have agreed to give up any right to disagree. You guys are still obsessed with 'the science' and refuse to address the fact that your right to choose is being taken away.

Also, it is unscientific to merely look at Covid. You must look at the costs in terms of lives and wealth when it comes to lockdowns themselves. Drug ODs have skyrocketed in many countries. People are struggling with mental health issues, young people, because of these lockdowns.

Unsurprisingly you don't appear to be able to read. No mandates at all in Australia for 12 to 15 year olds, and the current overall vaccination rate has been achieved mainly without mandates, with even mandates for health workers coming into force only this month, as I said.

You don't understand the nature of control, power and evil in general. It doesn't stop. If you think this is the end of mandates and lockdowns in Australia you are sadly mistaken. But there's no point in debating this, you'll find out shortly enough.

[Neutral 123]

You have to go to school as a child. This is not remotely rape.
In the US as a male, you have to sign up for selected service. In many other countries you have mandatory military service. This is not rape.
You have to register your car and a license to operate it. Not rape.
You have to have a license for all kinds of occupations to practice them. Not rape.


It's an appalling analogy that isn't remotely the same thing as getting vaccinated as you know. So let's aim higher please.

The merits or necessity of these examples would need to be discussed individually, but you are misrepresenting his argument.

Vaccines are great and a blessing. Sex is great and a blessing. Forced vaccines are a nightmare. Forced sex is a nightmare. The use of force is the problem.

Now of course force is necessary in a free society to preserve the freedom of everyone. A murderer must be separated from society by force because he violates the freedom of others by taking their lives.

In a collectivist society, force is used as a tool in hopes of reaching some stated goal. Forced vaccinations in hopes of ending covid is in line with collectivism as is a forced breeding program. What he was doing is illuminating the amorality of a collectivist worldview. One that's easy to support because it sounds nice superficially, but most don't think of the consequences of where this has and will lead again.

You're a lot less cunning than you think you are. I made a simple request and you tried to skirt around it. Hopefully, you'll realize your mistake once your ban period clears.

Sorry man. Didn't see your request.