Ben Simmons Trade Thread Part 6

[sixers4real]

I still think once Sacramento start badly, like 1-6 (they have brutal schedule to start the season) Fox or Halliburton+Hield could be on the table for Simmons.

[DCasey91]

We’ve basically mulliganed this years draft which is borderline stupidity because it looks to be one of the more deeper classes in years gone by.

What do you mean mulliganed the draft? I'm used that meaning a re-do.

They didn't trade their pick, have two players from this draft on the roster, and from what I remember from most reactions, they didn't reach for a player. So I can't imagine that you mean any of these things.

Unless you were hoping for a third or fourth player from the draft on the roster which doesn't make sense for this team. So I can't imagine that's what you're saying either.

Mulligan means discard or essentially forgo to me.

Pick 28 - Springer

Alternatives right there and much later and better for us - Pick 36 Mcbride, Pick 38 Donsunmu, Pick 40 Butler, Pick 48 Cooper

I think we missed all of our three picks but that’s me.

[Stanford]

Likewise then I guess. You don’t know anything either.

Whatever I say on this board is a verifiable fact. I'm a mod.

[GutUNC]

See the report about praying for Lillard and the Sixers waiting on it?

This might actually be the downfall here. I understand going for a superstar for a higher variance always, but wisdom says this may not be the best approach at all.

1. What gives the Sixers organization the idea that Blazers would ever take our package? When it’s unbelievably obvious that other packages would blow us out the water (Shai/Ingram/Edwards plus picks).

2. Mules don’t change. What’s to say Ben will comeback and play close to his value again here.

3. Blazers start 10-5. Now the realistic scenario is they start this well, Ben still hasn’t suited up, we have no PG and we aren’t a contender. That’s a proposition that can in fact happen.

In the meantime there’s been zero work around the edges moves which for me have been disappointing. Because it does two things:

1. Makes us better for the short/medium/long term.
2. Well what do you know makes the big potential trade package look more enticing.

Downfall? Trading Simmons for scraps would be a downfall.

I'm not going to say they'll get what they want, but I'm pretty sure if they have to settle for trading Simmons for Brogdon then this team will be on the decline.

Also, not sure what you mean by working the edges. They upgraded Scott to Niang. Their roster (outside Simmons) is better this year than last year with a couple more young guys on the roster.

For #1 and #3, don't be so caught up in the specific report headline, they would trade for another star if they could. They are doing their best to work themselves into that situation. The report even states their flexibility if you read it.

For #2, Simmons for better/worse has been the same player for the past four years. I don't even know if he'll play, but if the small chance he does, he'll probably look the same. Not sure why you would suddenly think he would fall off.

Exactly. And the crap offers that we're led to believe are out there aren't going anywhere. Those will be available tomorrow, next week and in December. Unless you're prioritizing regular season losses over the eventual return in the trade, then the move is to wait until someone actually offers something resembling value.

*-Caveat to all this being we really don't know what is truly available. I'm pretty confident we know about 10% of what's actually being talked about so the possibility exists that there's a deal Morey should take and hasn't. I say what I said just operating on the assumption that what we know is reality.

[zaz102]

We’ve basically mulliganed this years draft which is borderline stupidity because it looks to be one of the more deeper classes in years gone by.

What do you mean mulliganed the draft? I'm used that meaning a re-do.

They didn't trade their pick, have two players from this draft on the roster, and from what I remember from most reactions, they didn't reach for a player. So I can't imagine that you mean any of these things.

Unless you were hoping for a third or fourth player from the draft on the roster which doesn't make sense for this team. So I can't imagine that's what you're saying either.

Mulligan means discard or essentially forgo to me.

Pick 28 - Springer

Alternatives right there and much later and better for us - Pick 36 Mcbride, Pick 38 Donsunmu, Pick 40 Butler, Pick 48 Cooper

I think we missed all of our three picks but that’s me.

Ah ok. I don't quite understand how they discarded the draft. You might not like the pick but they still made picks that I'm sure they thought were the best.

You might not like the picks and you might be right, but it's way too early to tell. And let's be honest, anybody they picked at that spot is flawed and there's a lot of luck involved to get a productive player.

[DCasey91]

Also a different adopting approach would be to give Joe or a Pritchard type free reign to bomb 1x pull up 3 every quarter from Curry/Lillard range, Seth does it need two others. Lesser shooters do it all the time. If your that good then shoot the rock. Better payoff in the end then giving that shot to Embiid/Harris, defense won’t see it coming.

Anyway we need 3x young guards with potential... we have one (Maxey) and this is not how good he’ll be it’s more he’s in the low end of what I’m looking for as a guard.

Shooting + Playmaking
Maxey is a Slasher/Scorer

Ain’t a PG anyway

Embiid + Harris is fine for scoring. They’ll take up the usage anyway and put a guard into a more off ball shooting or on ball facilitating action which Maxey obviously has struggled with and Shake doesn’t have the Ben connect and isn’t crash hot.

[Stanford]

Mulligan does not mean discard

[DCasey91]

Mulligan does not mean discard

Yes discard then rebuy back different in laments terms.

Semantics

We mulliganed except no rebuy for us lol

[zaz102]

Also a different adopting approach would be to give Joe or a Pritchard type free reign to bomb 1x pull up 3 every quarter from Curry/Lillard range, Seth does it need two others. Lesser shooters do it all the time. If your that good then shoot the rock. Better payoff in the end then giving that shot to Embiid/Harris, defense won’t see it coming.

Anyway we need 3x young guards with potential... we have one (Maxey) and this is not how good he’ll be it’s more he’s in the low end of what I’m looking for as a guard.

Shooting + Playmaking
Maxey is a Slasher/Scorer

Ain’t a PG anyway

Embiid + Harris is fine for scoring. They’ll take up the usage anyway and put a guard into a more off ball shooting or on ball facilitating action which Maxey obviously has struggled with and Shake doesn’t have the Ben connect and isn’t crash hot.

Where are you getting the 3x young guards with potential? What contending team has that?

I'd rather they have productive guards that can help them win a championship. Simmons bailing out left them with a huge hole in the guard position. Their essentially a star guard short.

With what they are working with, the guards are flawed and they will all get a chance to see what works since there's no obvious answer.

The Simmons situation could be a blessing in disguise if someone is able to step up and they get something close to what they are looking for in a trade down the road.

That being said I'm far from optimistic on how the guards will play and what they'll get for Simmons unfortunately.

[DCasey91]

Also a different adopting approach would be to give Joe or a Pritchard type free reign to bomb 1x pull up 3 every quarter from Curry/Lillard range, Seth does it need two others. Lesser shooters do it all the time. If your that good then shoot the rock. Better payoff in the end then giving that shot to Embiid/Harris, defense won’t see it coming.

Anyway we need 3x young guards with potential... we have one (Maxey) and this is not how good he’ll be it’s more he’s in the low end of what I’m looking for as a guard.

Shooting + Playmaking
Maxey is a Slasher/Scorer

Ain’t a PG anyway

Embiid + Harris is fine for scoring. They’ll take up the usage anyway and put a guard into a more off ball shooting or on ball facilitating action which Maxey obviously has struggled with and Shake doesn’t have the Ben connect and isn’t crash hot.

Where are you getting the 3x young guards with potential? What contending team has that?

I'd rather they have productive guards that can help them win a championship. Simmons bailing out left them with a huge hole in the guard position. Their essentially a star guard short.

With what they are working with, the guards are flawed and they will all get a chance to see what works since there's no obvious answer.

The Simmons situation could be a blessing in disguise if someone is able to step up and they get something close to what they are looking for in a trade down the road.

Umm draft or trade for them? We’ve had five years at this so having one that just had his rookie year last season is WOAT drafting to me. Just outlined more than a couple this year lol. And further back in posts older game ready smaller guards (not small at all) get drafted too late consistently it’s a trend. So capitalize on it

We are very bad capitalists at a capitalistic game.

We’ve overdrafted on one dimensional wings and sub par skillwise talents why? why do you think that is the case. Also no need to draft a big just sign a vet each year.

A lot of wasted picks with not much to show for it tbh.

Anyway not going to harp on it. Nets have Thomas ffs this year lol. Watch David Duke somehow will turn into an acceptable guard player because.... he can do guard things.

Bucks picked up Allen for peanuts good move that one. Donte was 17th pick, and Waters looks a likely type

We blow 1st round picks like we are kids at a birthday party lmao.

The reality is, it’s not that hard.

Ben Simmons is not a guard, he’s a below average fundamentally skilled big man (PF) masquerading as a guard.

Which guard ever has worst NBA range than Peak Shaq? None.

[DCasey91]

Simply like this:

Why didn’t we get Allen? Two very late second rounders that’s all it took.

1. Improved every year
2. Good size at the 1
3. Can shoot the cover off the thing, defend, grab boards, pass and handle the rock what more do you want from a roleplayer?

Oh it’s because he’s dirty? Please

See not hard.

[zaz102]

Also a different adopting approach would be to give Joe or a Pritchard type free reign to bomb 1x pull up 3 every quarter from Curry/Lillard range, Seth does it need two others. Lesser shooters do it all the time. If your that good then shoot the rock. Better payoff in the end then giving that shot to Embiid/Harris, defense won’t see it coming.

Anyway we need 3x young guards with potential... we have one (Maxey) and this is not how good he’ll be it’s more he’s in the low end of what I’m looking for as a guard.

Shooting + Playmaking
Maxey is a Slasher/Scorer

Ain’t a PG anyway

Embiid + Harris is fine for scoring. They’ll take up the usage anyway and put a guard into a more off ball shooting or on ball facilitating action which Maxey obviously has struggled with and Shake doesn’t have the Ben connect and isn’t crash hot.

Where are you getting the 3x young guards with potential? What contending team has that?

I'd rather they have productive guards that can help them win a championship. Simmons bailing out left them with a huge hole in the guard position. Their essentially a star guard short.

With what they are working with, the guards are flawed and they will all get a chance to see what works since there's no obvious answer.

The Simmons situation could be a blessing in disguise if someone is able to step up and they get something close to what they are looking for in a trade down the road.

Umm draft or trade for them? We’ve had five years at this so having one that just had his rookie year last season is WOAT drafting to me. Just outlined more than a couple this year lol. And further back in posts older game ready smaller guards (not small at all) get drafted too late consistently it’s a trend. So capitalize on it

We are very bad capitalists at a capitalistic game.

We’ve overdrafted on one dimensional wings and sub par skillwise talents why? why do you think that is the case. Also no need to draft a big just sign a vet each year.

A lot of wasted picks with not much to show for it tbh.

Anyway not going to harp on it. Nets have Thomas ffs this year lol. Watch David Duke somehow will turn into an acceptable guard player because.... he can do guard things.

Ben Simmons is not a guard, he’s a below average fundamentally skilled big man (PF) masquerading as a guard.

Which guard ever has worst NBA range than Peak Shaq? None.

I meant where did the requirement come from. I can't think of a contender that have 3x young guards with potential.

Most of the rest I agree with and there's no point in beating a dead horse with how much they screwed up and how Simmons never evolved to the player the team needed.

I will respectfully disagree that the Sixers need 3 young guards with potential right now. That would be great, but I personally think their priority should be to pair Embiid with another star while Embiid is in his prime.

[DCasey91]

Where are you getting the 3x young guards with potential? What contending team has that?

I'd rather they have productive guards that can help them win a championship. Simmons bailing out left them with a huge hole in the guard position. Their essentially a star guard short.

With what they are working with, the guards are flawed and they will all get a chance to see what works since there's no obvious answer.

The Simmons situation could be a blessing in disguise if someone is able to step up and they get something close to what they are looking for in a trade down the road.

Umm draft or trade for them? We’ve had five years at this so having one that just had his rookie year last season is WOAT drafting to me. Just outlined more than a couple this year lol. And further back in posts older game ready smaller guards (not small at all) get drafted too late consistently it’s a trend. So capitalize on it

We are very bad capitalists at a capitalistic game.

We’ve overdrafted on one dimensional wings and sub par skillwise talents why? why do you think that is the case. Also no need to draft a big just sign a vet each year.

A lot of wasted picks with not much to show for it tbh.

Anyway not going to harp on it. Nets have Thomas ffs this year lol. Watch David Duke somehow will turn into an acceptable guard player because.... he can do guard things.

Ben Simmons is not a guard, he’s a below average fundamentally skilled big man (PF) masquerading as a guard.

Which guard ever has worst NBA range than Peak Shaq? None.

I meant where did the requirement come from. I can't think of a contender that have 3x young guards with potential.

Most of the rest I agree with and there's no point in beating a dead horse with how much they screwed up and how Simmons never evolved to the player the team needed.

I will respectfully disagree that the Sixers need 3 young guards with potential right now. That would be great, but I personally think their priority should be to pair Embiid with another star while Embiid is in his prime.

3 guards because we don’t have a starting PG/SG lol.

All other teams have one or two (starting backcourt done) plus depth at the guard spot that can switch to a starting role and not be Swiss cheese at it. That’s the blueprint

Don’t have to be young just with potential to produce more on our squad. If you’re a half decent guard and under something like 26 you are going to play a lot of minutes here.

Instead we’ve gone off on some weird Dr. Frankenstein route of how bad can we stuff this up. Which I can’t believe you could do even if you did it on purpose lol

Guards look greater than what they are today because it’s so easy now. It’s high school stuff

I couldn’t imagine Kobe/Jordan playing today F that. Especially now when they don’t call palming the ball.

[zaz102]

Simply like this:

Why didn’t we get Allen? Two very late second rounders that’s all it took.

1. Improved every year
2. Good size at the 1
3. Can shoot the cover off the thing, defend, grab boards, pass and handle the rock what more do you want from a roleplayer?

Oh it’s because he’s dirty? Please

See not hard.

Allen's pretty good and Im not sure about the dirty thing, but the main reasons to not go after him are-

1. If you sign him, he's going to have to be paid next year. Will he be worth it?

2. If they traded for him, they would have to get rid of someone. Who are you getting rid of?

I guess Korkmaz might be the best option if they wanted a guard over a wing. I could be talked into for Milton but his contract is better. Also, both those players are younger and I don't see grayson as much of a better player.

Other guys are on longer rookie deals that won't be playing much or are better veterans.

[zaz102]

Umm draft or trade for them? We’ve had five years at this so having one that just had his rookie year last season is WOAT drafting to me. Just outlined more than a couple this year lol. And further back in posts older game ready smaller guards (not small at all) get drafted too late consistently it’s a trend. So capitalize on it

We are very bad capitalists at a capitalistic game.

We’ve overdrafted on one dimensional wings and sub par skillwise talents why? why do you think that is the case. Also no need to draft a big just sign a vet each year.

A lot of wasted picks with not much to show for it tbh.

Anyway not going to harp on it. Nets have Thomas ffs this year lol. Watch David Duke somehow will turn into an acceptable guard player because.... he can do guard things.

Ben Simmons is not a guard, he’s a below average fundamentally skilled big man (PF) masquerading as a guard.

Which guard ever has worst NBA range than Peak Shaq? None.

I meant where did the requirement come from. I can't think of a contender that have 3x young guards with potential.

Most of the rest I agree with and there's no point in beating a dead horse with how much they screwed up and how Simmons never evolved to the player the team needed.

I will respectfully disagree that the Sixers need 3 young guards with potential right now. That would be great, but I personally think their priority should be to pair Embiid with another star while Embiid is in his prime.

3 guards because we don’t have a starting PG/SG lol.

All other teams have one or two (starting backcourt done) plus depth at the guard spot that can switch to a starting role and not be Swiss cheese at it. That’s the blueprint

Don’t have to be young just with potential to produce more on our squad. If you’re a half decent guard and under something like 26 you are going to play a lot of minutes here.

Instead we’ve gone off on some weird Dr. Frankenstein route of how bad can we stuff this up. Which I can’t believe you could do even if you did it on purpose lol

Guards look greater than what they are today because it’s so easy now. It’s high school stuff

I couldn’t imagine Kobe/Jordan playing today F that. Especially now when they don’t call palming the ball.

Sorry I'm a bit lost. I thought you were saying three young guards with potential, but now I'm reading this as four guards that can play.

They have three guards and obviously are hoping to trade Simmons for a star PG. That is definitely a hole, but I'm sure they want to address it.

Shake, Curry, and Maxey can all play. Both Shake and Maxey can play and are young and Curry is older but one of the best players in the league. They're all playable.

Can you give an example of a team that you are speaking of? Might be easier for me to understand.

[DCasey91]

Simply like this:

Why didn’t we get Allen? Two very late second rounders that’s all it took.

1. Improved every year
2. Good size at the 1
3. Can shoot the cover off the thing, defend, grab boards, pass and handle the rock what more do you want from a roleplayer?

Oh it’s because he’s dirty? Please

See not hard.

Allen's pretty good and Im not sure about the dirty thing, but the main reasons to not go after him are-

1. If you sign him, he's going to have to be paid next year. Will he be worth it?

2. If they traded for him, they would have to get rid of someone. Who are you getting rid of?

I guess Korkmaz might be the best option if they wanted a guard over a wing. I could be talked into for Milton but his contract is better. Also, both those players are younger and I don't see grayson as much of a better player.

Other guys are on longer rookie deals that won't be playing much or are better veterans.

Grayson is much better than both. He’s a lights out shooter, with actually really good size at the 1, can defend, pass and actually have the ball in his hands etc. As tools go he’s ahead of Shake and Korkmaz by a mile. Stats be damned it’s an easy spot

Sub out Kork’s contract for Allen.

Watch Allen, there’s discussion on him starting over Donte because he plays more controlled.

76ciology alluded to this well, rep over production.

Also a name mentioned before is Duke. Give him the Milton deal but something even less than that.
Good size as a guard, can shoot and handle the rock

Basically what I’m saying is the perquisite to be an NBA guard the bar isn’t high because of how meta friendly it is.

Instead we get doo doo wings or undersized raw guards lol.

Be sized positionally well (can look small but have to be elite something), shoot, pass and handle the rock... congrats you have a job.

[DCasey91]

I meant where did the requirement come from. I can't think of a contender that have 3x young guards with potential.

Most of the rest I agree with and there's no point in beating a dead horse with how much they screwed up and how Simmons never evolved to the player the team needed.

I will respectfully disagree that the Sixers need 3 young guards with potential right now. That would be great, but I personally think their priority should be to pair Embiid with another star while Embiid is in his prime.

3 guards because we don’t have a starting PG/SG lol.

All other teams have one or two (starting backcourt done) plus depth at the guard spot that can switch to a starting role and not be Swiss cheese at it. That’s the blueprint

Don’t have to be young just with potential to produce more on our squad. If you’re a half decent guard and under something like 26 you are going to play a lot of minutes here.

Instead we’ve gone off on some weird Dr. Frankenstein route of how bad can we stuff this up. Which I can’t believe you could do even if you did it on purpose lol

Guards look greater than what they are today because it’s so easy now. It’s high school stuff

I couldn’t imagine Kobe/Jordan playing today F that. Especially now when they don’t call palming the ball.

Sorry I'm a bit lost. I thought you were saying three young guards with potential, but now I'm reading this as four guards that can play.

They have three guards and obviously are hoping to trade Simmons for a star PG. That is definitely a hole, but I'm sure they want to address it.

Shake, Curry, and Maxey can all play. Both Shake and Maxey can play and are young and Curry is older but one of the best players in the league. They're all playable.

Can you give an example of a team that you are speaking of? Might be easier for me to understand.

Okay. None of them are starters if we are being honest.

Most NBA teams have a starter level backcourt, we don’t. Could be an All Star or higher or just very very good (Fox + whoever for example).

That’s 2 PG+ SG

The extra one is for depth that can sub into the starting unit. Think Schroder as an example. Or Jevon Carter, Monte Morris, Campazzo, Pritchard, Brunson etc. Older type that’s logged in a lot of starting games so to speak.

Then there’s essentially a younger one in the backdrop. Think Kira or Naw at the Pels, Simons at the Blazers or Maxey for us.

Total - 4. Could be 3, what matters is the roleplayers are as what the team actually needs.

For Embiid it’s this:

Offball great shooting with on ball ballhandling, playmaking, low usage guard that can defend.

Think Lowry as high end, Brunson as the low end of the spectrum and FVV as middle upper.

Pair would be a SG like Hunter for example. Then the starter switch spot would be Pritchard

Then finally Maxey.

Milton can’t play as a 1 and not talented enough to be the youngin in the backdrop. Curry is not a starter level as a SG but can do the in/out stuff. Also he’s positionally locked which is another thing to keep in mind.

A player than can play PG/SG or SG when the bench PG is on or vice versa or just lone man the offense it’s just more valuable. That doesn’t show in any stat sheet but it’s intrinsically better.

LBJ can play wherever he wants to on the court, Durant same deal. Okay extreme example but I’m sure you get the idea

Nets:
Harden, Irving
Mills
Thomas

See? All can play both SG/PG it’s smart, cuts out the middleman of needing more specific marginal at best roleplayers.

We love specific, marginal one dimensional roleplayers. This is also a huge problem and it’s a huge problem in our starting unit. It’s static

Like Thybulle would be good if X player was on the court to offset... how about he would just be good on the court as a stand-alone?

That’s why I prefer a player by the name of Ingram over CJ everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. He has so many valuable avenues here it’s not funny.

Lists are basically 9 deep come playoff time. I loathe marginal at best and highly specific roleplayers lol don’t want that at all.

Doesn’t help Doc is less fluid with his moves than Brown. Doc can’t open the door unless the door is perfect at all times and at any change in circumstance he throws his hands in the air and yells at the cloud like an old man. Basketball isn’t played by being static.

[sixers hoops]

Mulligan does not mean discard

Yes discard then rebuy back different in laments terms.

Semantics

We mulliganed except no rebuy for us lol

It’s not semantics. It’s not a mulligan at all. A mulligan is to cancel your actions and be given a second opportunity. The Sixers never canceled their pick or were given a second opportunity at the pick.

[zaz102]

3 guards because we don’t have a starting PG/SG lol.

All other teams have one or two (starting backcourt done) plus depth at the guard spot that can switch to a starting role and not be Swiss cheese at it. That’s the blueprint

Don’t have to be young just with potential to produce more on our squad. If you’re a half decent guard and under something like 26 you are going to play a lot of minutes here.

Instead we’ve gone off on some weird Dr. Frankenstein route of how bad can we stuff this up. Which I can’t believe you could do even if you did it on purpose lol

Guards look greater than what they are today because it’s so easy now. It’s high school stuff

I couldn’t imagine Kobe/Jordan playing today F that. Especially now when they don’t call palming the ball.

Sorry I'm a bit lost. I thought you were saying three young guards with potential, but now I'm reading this as four guards that can play.

They have three guards and obviously are hoping to trade Simmons for a star PG. That is definitely a hole, but I'm sure they want to address it.

Shake, Curry, and Maxey can all play. Both Shake and Maxey can play and are young and Curry is older but one of the best players in the league. They're all playable.

Can you give an example of a team that you are speaking of? Might be easier for me to understand.

Okay. None of them are starters if we are being honest.

Most NBA teams have a starter level backcourt, we don’t. Could be an All Star or higher or just very very good (Fox for example).

That’s 2 PG+ SG

The extra one is for depth that can sub into the starting unit. Think Schroder as an example. Or Jevon Carter, Monte Morris, Campazzo, Pritchard, Brunson etc.

Then there’s essentially a younger one in the backdrop. Think Kira or Naw at the Pels, Simons at the Blazers or Maxey for us.

Total - 4. Could be 3, what matters is the roleplayers are as what the team actually needs.

For Embiid it’s this:

Offball great shooting, on ball playmaking, low usage guard that can defend.

Think Lowry as high end, Brunson as the low end of the spectrum and FVV as middle upper.

Pair would be a SG like Hunter for example. Then the starter switch spot would be Pritchard

Then finally Maxey.

Nets

Harden, Irving
Mills
Thomas

See?

The 3x young guards with potential threw me off. I think your example demonstrates that's not what you really meant.

I'll spare any more back and forth and just agree (as I'm sure pretty much most do) with that they need a strong/star playmaking guard and I think the Simmons trade is critical to obtain that.

[DCasey91]

Mulligan does not mean discard

Yes discard then rebuy back different in laments terms.

Semantics

We mulliganed except no rebuy for us lol

It’s not semantics. It’s not a mulligan at all. A mulligan is to cancel your actions and be given a second opportunity. The Sixers never canceled their pick or were given a second opportunity at the pick.

Okay grammar police thanks for letting me know.