Ayton deals: ORL, CHA, HOU, DET, yours?

[Wolveswin]

What about OKC?

Is Ayton a fitting Robin to SGA?

OKC can start offer with Favors — to be one of the vet centers by Committee for Suns — add K. Williams for added Suns depth, and can return Suns 2022 1st.

A third team could be added, if Suns want to go all-in, adding even more value themselves, if a better vet center could be had.

[DetroitDon15]

If Ayton gets something close to the max it marginalizes his value, imo. The deal isn't unreasonable for Detroit, but they're giving up three players under control for some time.

He has a particular skill set that serves the Suns very well. Rim runner, shot blocker, rebounder, has his limits offensively. Not unlike Capela. You just wonder how he looks on a bad team.

I don’t see the fit for Detroit. I’m not sure why the Suns want to deal. I’m having a hard time find a team with the pieces and scheme to make him successful. I’d rather keep Grant at this time. I’d value putting big dollars in the center piston since replace level is so high for the position.

[leo921]

Just checked trade machine and yes this works.
Bulls trade - Vucevic/White
for
Suns trade - Ayton/Dario(filler, out for yr)/Hutchinson(filler)

Bulls new core would be Ball/Lavine/Williams/Ayton with Caruso and Derozan in support. Bulls get younger and have a dominant big that can't be run off the floor in the playoffs.

Suns would get an experienced Center who can post, pass, shoot 3s, rebound, great in pick n roll or pick and pop. Suns would still be in the title hunt and lose 2 players who can't help them (Saric-injuried, Hutch-bust) and gain another shooter and solid combo guard in White.

[tmorgan]

This is meant to be a serious, non-troll question:

Why does Ayton deserve a max contract in today’s NBA? I know he’s good, he’s athletic, good hands, can hit an open middie, and is young. I watched the entire playoffs, not just the Finals, and he was mostly impressive.

Still, why the max? What about his game makes you want to tie up a quarter+ of your cap in him? He was unlocked to an extent by Chris Paul. He doesn’t create much offense for himself or others. He’s a good defender, but far from great. He’s quite athletic for big, but the mental side of his game seems very average.

Good player. Certainly a plus guy. But I hold the position that giving a big without serious outlier talent that much money is a mistake. Phoenix is thinking correctly here, and if it causes a problem with Ayton, looking to move him for good value is 100% justified.

[DoItALL9]

This is meant to be a serious, non-troll question:

Why does Ayton deserve a max contract in today’s NBA? I know he’s good, he’s athletic, good hands, can hit an open middie, and is young. I watched the entire playoffs, not just the Finals, and he was mostly impressive.

Still, why the max? What about his game makes you want to tie up a quarter+ of your cap in him? He was unlocked to an extent by Chris Paul. He doesn’t create much offense for himself or others. He’s a good defender, but far from great. He’s quite athletic for big, but the mental side of his game seems very average.

Good player. Certainly a plus guy. But I hold the position that giving a big without serious outlier talent that much money is a mistake. Phoenix is thinking correctly here, and if it causes a problem with Ayton, looking to move him for good value is 100% justified.

If you let him go how do you replace him?
Who can they get that can guard Jokic, AD, and other great bigs.

The hope is that maybe he'll get even better and be able to guard Giannis.
Also, CP3 can get more out of him in the next couple of years. It's hard to believe he's maxed out his potential. Imagine if he becomes as skilled as Brook Lopez offensively (or maybe better) and DPOY level defensively.

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[DoItALL9]

Just checked trade machine and yes this works.
Bulls trade - Vucevic/White
for
Suns trade - Ayton/Dario(filler, out for yr)/Hutchinson(filler)

Bulls new core would be Ball/Lavine/Williams/Ayton with Caruso and Derozan in support. Bulls get younger and have a dominant big that can't be run off the floor in the playoffs.

Suns would get an experienced Center who can post, pass, shoot 3s, rebound, great in pick n roll or pick and pop. Suns would still be in the title hunt and lose 2 players who can't help them (Saric-injuried, Hutch-bust) and gain another shooter and solid combo guard in White.

Defensively what would they do vs the bigs they played last year in the playoffs for example: AD, Jokic, Lopez, Giannis

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[Slim Charless]

This is meant to be a serious, non-troll question:

Why does Ayton deserve a max contract in today’s NBA? I know he’s good, he’s athletic, good hands, can hit an open middie, and is young. I watched the entire playoffs, not just the Finals, and he was mostly impressive.

Still, why the max? What about his game makes you want to tie up a quarter+ of your cap in him? He was unlocked to an extent by Chris Paul. He doesn’t create much offense for himself or others. He’s a good defender, but far from great. He’s quite athletic for big, but the mental side of his game seems very average.

Good player. Certainly a plus guy. But I hold the position that giving a big without serious outlier talent that much money is a mistake. Phoenix is thinking correctly here, and if it causes a problem with Ayton, looking to move him for good value is 100% justified.

If you let him go how do you replace him?
Who can they get that can guard Jokic, AD, and other great bigs.

The hope is that maybe he'll get even better and be able to guard Giannis.
Also, CP3 can get more out of him in the next couple of years. It's hard to believe he's maxed out his potential. Imagine if he becomes as skilled as Brook Lopez offensively (or maybe better) and DPOY level defensively.

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Yup. Joker already was quoted as saying Ayton was his toughest match-up. In 2 years DA will win a DPOY....and he might even get one this year. There aren't too many bigs that can handle inside like him- while still being able to swing out to the perimeter and harass some guards.

He's on his way to being a defensive unicorn. Before any MIL fans come in here and start on about Giannis....remember that Ayton was 22 during the finals. He's got alot of room to grow.


That's why you max him.

[Texas Chuck]

so he's DPOY this year but we should ignore how he got abused in his most recent time on the court? Interesting. That is one hell of an incredible off-season I guess.

[Slim Charless]

so he's DPOY this year but we should ignore how he got abused in his most recent time on the court? Interesting. That is one hell of an incredible off-season I guess.

...."abused" by the 2 time MVP while playing in his very 1st finals ever when he hasn't even remotely hit his prime years yet.

Glad to help you finish that quote, and yes he has as much potential as any big in the league. Rudy won't be winning another. Street Clothes will be load managed this season and Draymond is too old. I'm curious to who you have as the winner this season?

[DoItALL9]

so he's DPOY this year but we should ignore how he got abused in his most recent time on the court? Interesting. That is one hell of an incredible off-season I guess.

Are you indirectly comparing Terrance Mann and Giannis Antetokounmpo?

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[Texas Chuck]

so he's DPOY this year but we should ignore how he got abused in his most recent time on the court? Interesting. That is one hell of an incredible off-season I guess.

...."abused" by the 2 time MVP while playing in his very 1st finals ever when he hasn't even remotely hit his prime years yet.

Glad to help you finish that quote, and yes he has as much potential as any big in the league. Rudy won't be winning another. Street Clothes will be load managed this season and Draymond is too old. I'm curious to who you have as the winner this season?

Gobert, Giannis, AD, Draymond, Embiid, Capela all feel like easy choices in front of Ayton.

[Crives]

so he's DPOY this year but we should ignore how he got abused in his most recent time on the court? Interesting. That is one hell of an incredible off-season I guess.

...."abused" by the 2 time MVP while playing in his very 1st finals ever when he hasn't even remotely hit his prime years yet.

Glad to help you finish that quote, and yes he has as much potential as any big in the league. Rudy won't be winning another. Street Clothes will be load managed this season and Draymond is too old. I'm curious to who you have as the winner this season?

Gobert, Giannis, AD, Draymond, Embiid, Capela all feel like easy choices in front of Ayton.

Gobert and Giannis yes.

AD and Embiid I think we have to account for expected games played, I think it’s unlikely they play enough games, wouldn’t be an easy choice for me

Draymond and Capela, has anyone ever won DPOY with an average defense team?

If Ayton takes a similar leap compared to what he did the last two seasons…. He should be right there. I think we are at least 1-2 years away from discussing Ayton in DPOY

[Wolveswin]

so he's DPOY this year but we should ignore how he got abused in his most recent time on the court? Interesting. That is one hell of an incredible off-season I guess.

...."abused" by the 2 time MVP while playing in his very 1st finals ever when he hasn't even remotely hit his prime years yet.

Glad to help you finish that quote, and yes he has as much potential as any big in the league. Rudy won't be winning another. Street Clothes will be load managed this season and Draymond is too old. I'm curious to who you have as the winner this season?

Gobert, Giannis, AD, Draymond, Embiid, Capela all feel like easy choices in front of Ayton.

I think Simmons is on the list. When the saga ends and we assume he doesn’t miss regular season games, he will be HIGHLY motivated on his new team to make 76ers miss him when he is gone. More so, if the roster he lands on is a great fit for Simmons and he can defend less PGs and more wings/forwards, he will be set up for DPOY type production.

[Slim Charless]

...."abused" by the 2 time MVP while playing in his very 1st finals ever when he hasn't even remotely hit his prime years yet.

Glad to help you finish that quote, and yes he has as much potential as any big in the league. Rudy won't be winning another. Street Clothes will be load managed this season and Draymond is too old. I'm curious to who you have as the winner this season?

Gobert, Giannis, AD, Draymond, Embiid, Capela all feel like easy choices in front of Ayton.

Gobert and Giannis yes.

AD and Embiid I think we have to account for expected games played, I think it’s unlikely they play enough games, wouldn’t be an easy choice for me

Draymond and Capela, has anyone ever won DPOY with an average defense team?

If Ayton takes a similar leap compared to what he did the last two seasons…. He should be right there. I think we are at least 1-2 years away from discussing Ayton in DPOY

They're not giving it to Rudy again. Draymond is too old and won't be as good there as he was in past years. Giannis, maybe I can see but still I doubt it.

The only bigs I picture being true threats to him are Embiid and Bam. Capela is a dark horse, but again he can't step out and help on guards like Ayton can.

[Texas Chuck]

Maybe, but we don't know where he ends up or why and perhaps more importantly we know how petty the media gets on these awards. Lebron didn't win MVP in 2011 though he clearly had the best year because the media were mad about The Decision. Nash arguably had a better case for MVP in 07 than he did in 05 or 06 but the media decided Nash wasn't a good enough player to win 3x in a row, etc...

I think Simmons has almost no shot at it this year.

[Slim Charless]

...."abused" by the 2 time MVP while playing in his very 1st finals ever when he hasn't even remotely hit his prime years yet.

Glad to help you finish that quote, and yes he has as much potential as any big in the league. Rudy won't be winning another. Street Clothes will be load managed this season and Draymond is too old. I'm curious to who you have as the winner this season?

Gobert, Giannis, AD, Draymond, Embiid, Capela all feel like easy choices in front of Ayton.

I think Simmons is on the list. When the saga ends and we assume he doesn’t miss regular season games, he will be HIGHLY motivated on his new team to make 76ers miss him when he is gone. More so, if the roster he lands on is a great fit for Simmons and he can defend less PGs and more wings/forwards, he will be set up for DPOY type production.

I was more or less talking about bigs that can win the award but yes, Simmons is an option. He's gonna have to have a monster on that side as his perception is very low and alot of voters might not give him the votes out of spite to how he's carried himself this summer.

[Wolveswin]

Gobert, Giannis, AD, Draymond, Embiid, Capela all feel like easy choices in front of Ayton.

I think Simmons is on the list. When the saga ends and we assume he doesn’t miss regular season games, he will be HIGHLY motivated on his new team to make 76ers miss him when he is gone. More so, if the roster he lands on is a great fit for Simmons and he can defend less PGs and more wings/forwards, he will be set up for DPOY type production.

I was more or less talking about bigs that can win the award but yes, Simmons is an option. He's gonna have to have a monster on that side as his perception is very low and alot of voters might not give him the votes out of spite to how he's carried himself this summer.

That could be real. Also could be real Simmons watch falls under any publicity is good publicity. He could get a massive spotlight on his defense production throughout the season. It could be unprecedented for a DPOY focus for Simmons.

[Slim Charless]

I think Simmons is on the list. When the saga ends and we assume he doesn’t miss regular season games, he will be HIGHLY motivated on his new team to make 76ers miss him when he is gone. More so, if the roster he lands on is a great fit for Simmons and he can defend less PGs and more wings/forwards, he will be set up for DPOY type production.

I was more or less talking about bigs that can win the award but yes, Simmons is an option. He's gonna have to have a monster on that side as his perception is very low and alot of voters might not give him the votes out of spite to how he's carried himself this summer.

That could be real. Also could be real Simmons watch falls under any publicity is good publicity. He could get a massive spotlight on his defense production throughout the season. It could be unprecedented for a DPOY focus for Simmons.

You're not wrong, but Simmons has been pretty damn good already-to no avail. I personally had him as my DPOY last season, unfortunately the NBA didn't ask me

He's been doing work on that end and hasn't gotten it yet and that's with being loved by the media and being 1 of the leagues biggest stars. Now, he has to improve on that while being debately public enemy #1.....though Kyrie might give him some some competition on the hated thing if he manages to derail a possible all time team in Brooklyn.

[jbk1234]

Well, after this year, he could sign the QO for one year, then walk.
If my boss said we are going to pay you $80, that is it. And, I knew I was worth $120 and was sure any other boss would pay me $120, I know that I would not care how his business did anymore and I would prepare to leave.
Also, I know my hamstring would be tightening up whenever a loss would hurt the team.

So, yes, under the rules, PHX has Ayton locked up for two more years.
But, as we have seen lately, if he says trade me or else (because you ill not pay me), then PHX pretty much has to deal him. Or, they can sit on him and lose his value.

And, people have downplayed his value because of Giannis abusing him. I get it. But, when he was out of the game, it was worse. Giannis was trucking everyone. PHX dominated outside but could not deal with the muscle heavy inside trio of Giannis, Lopez, Tucker or even Portis. Ayton was ok, but noone else could help.

No 22 year old young man is passing up $80M, and let's be clear, the number will be at least $100M, and running the risk of a serious injury by playing on the Q.O. for an entire season. Not if his agent is doing his job.

[Xman]

Thirty teams - if you have 2 max guys to each team, then 60 max contracts. 90 if each team had three.

Now, there are "high max" players and "low max" players. High max is obvious - Lebron, Durant, Curry etc. The problem is there are only so many of those guys. Of course, the teams that can get multiple "high max" guys have a huge advantage
The problem is after the first dozen or so max guys, you get to guys like middleton, THarris, Kemba, Siakam. These guys are good - but not true superstars.
Even worse, after the top 20, you get - Jrue, KP, Griffin, Wiggins, McCollum. These are low max guys. Guys the teams want and need, but do not produce like the top 10. Still, since top 30 (or even 60), they expect max money.

Once you hit around 45 in salaries, it is just wacky as to who gets what.

So, why do you max Ayton? He is a top 50 player - and at a hard to find position - that works in multiple offenses. Would you rather have Davis or Lebron? Sure. But, only so many teams get those guys and they can force out to big market teams (like Davis/Lebron/etc.). Ayton will be a max player that is worth his money but not seen as worth much more (unless significant improvement). But, you can't get good without good players and they cannot replace him. DeRozan got $26 mil - that shows how hard it is to find talent on the market (exception for Lakers and to some extent NY teams). Add in that teams are being careful to keep players, it is hard to find a good free agent.

So, Ayton deserves a max. And, unless you have a way to get those top 10 guys, it is stupid to not pay him.