Ben Simmons Thread #2 (“Don’t make me contact Howard” Edition)

[Note30]

I don't think he is an all-star.

I think he is a good, not great player.

His contract is terrible.

No, those accolades don't mean anything, they are subjective by nature. The only thing listed that has any value is he was the steals leader in 2020. That is the only objective fact.

He is an All Star. That is an accolade. He earned that. This is fact.

If you really want facts there's stats you can look at his defensive metrics.

Yet I don't think he earned it (I am not alone), so it isn't a fact. He received it is what you want to say and that it is a subjective measurement he received. Fact.

He received votes from members of the basketball world that are considered experts on the field. It's subjective, but being subjective it's one of the best opinions out there.

By that same logic, MVPs, Finals MVPs, and being a member of the Olympics teams means diddly squat.

There's a reason we have those awards, to quantify a players value.

[SO_MONEY]

He is an All Star. That is an accolade. He earned that. This is fact.

If you really want facts there's stats you can look at his defensive metrics.

Yet I don't think he earned it (I am not alone), so it isn't a fact. He received it is what you want to say and that it is a subjective measurement he received. Fact.

He received votes from members of the basketball world that are considered experts on the field. It's subjective, but being subjective it's one of the best opinions out there.

By that same logic, MVPs, Finals MVPs, and being a member of the Olympics teams means diddly squat.

There's a reason we have those awards, to quantify a players value.

He hasn't ever deserved to be an all-star.

Whether named as a replacement or based on votes.

He deserves to be all-defense.

I am sticking with this.

[Note30]

Yet I don't think he earned it (I am not alone), so it isn't a fact. He received it is what you want to say and that it is a subjective measurement he received. Fact.

He received votes from members of the basketball world that are considered experts on the field. It's subjective, but being subjective it's one of the best opinions out there.

By that same logic, MVPs, Finals MVPs, and being a member of the Olympics teams means diddly squat.

There's a reason we have those awards, to quantify a players value.

He hasn't ever deserved to be an all-star.

Whether named as a replacement or based on votes.

He deserves to be all-defense.

I am sticking with this.

And the majority of the NBA experts world would disagree with you.

Thats fine too

Stick with it king

[SO_MONEY]

He received votes from members of the basketball world that are considered experts on the field. It's subjective, but being subjective it's one of the best opinions out there.

By that same logic, MVPs, Finals MVPs, and being a member of the Olympics teams means diddly squat.

There's a reason we have those awards, to quantify a players value.

He hasn't ever deserved to be an all-star.

Whether named as a replacement or based on votes.

He deserves to be all-defense.

I am sticking with this.

And the majority of the NBA experts world would disagree with you.

Thats fine too

Stick with it king

Maybe, maybe not.

You understand fans play a role in this...right? You understand market size plays a role...right? You understand fans and experts didn't see him as an all-star one of his appearances... right?

I don't think he is an all-star. Period.

[Slim Tubby]

I really want the Simmons saga to end one way or another. I've felt throughout the off-season that the Wolves have been in a holding pattern waiting to see how things played out. If the Wolves don't get Simmons (still by far the most likely outcome), they can finally pivot and start looking at options to add the rotation big they've desperately needed for over a year.

High quality post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shrink]

We already tried this with Rubio. Simmons is a much better player than Rubio but the same problems are in play. An even worse perimeter shooter than Rubio especially at the free throw line. Rubio's pretty good on defense and again Simmons is better, but I don't see how he takes us over the top. Stop making the same mistakes over and over, especially not at the cost of almost all the valuable assets Wolves have. There will be much better options in the future

Unlike Ricky Rubio, Ben Simmons is a good finisher around the basket and is 6’10”. He’s also a WAY more dynamic defensive player, due to his better athleticism and height.

All true, but he didn’t have a net positive impact much greater than Rubio, so …

for what it's worth, here are the respective player impact plus/minuses over the last 4 seasons (since simmons's rookie year):

6.27 harden
5.12 curry
4.29 lillard
4.20 cp3
3.36 doncic

3.17 westbrook
3.12 kyrie
2.79 lowry
2.75 holiday
2.71 kemba

2.53 conley
1.68 simmons
1.28 rubio
1.17 brogdon
1.03 d murray
1.00 j murray

controls for quality of teammates

doncic is on an upward trajectory and cp3 is drifting in the other direction.

[Calinks]

He's back!

Read on Twitter

[Krapinsky]

He's back!

Read on Twitter

As soon as the league confirmed he wasn’t getting his money he came running back lol

[fattymcgee]

We already tried this with Rubio. Simmons is a much better player than Rubio but the same problems are in play. An even worse perimeter shooter than Rubio especially at the free throw line. Rubio's pretty good on defense and again Simmons is better, but I don't see how he takes us over the top. Stop making the same mistakes over and over, especially not at the cost of almost all the valuable assets Wolves have. There will be much better options in the future

Unlike Ricky Rubio, Ben Simmons is a good finisher around the basket and is 6’10”. He’s also a WAY more dynamic defensive player, due to his better athleticism and height.

All true, but he didn’t have a net positive impact much greater than Rubio, so …

for what it's worth, here are the respective player impact plus/minuses over the last 4 seasons (since simmons's rookie year):

6.27 harden
5.12 curry
4.29 lillard
4.20 cp3
3.36 doncic

3.17 westbrook
3.12 kyrie
2.79 lowry
2.75 holiday
2.71 kemba

2.53 conley
1.68 simmons
1.28 rubio
1.17 brogdon
1.03 d murray
1.00 j murray

controls for quality of teammates

doncic is on an upward trajectory and cp3 is drifting in the other direction.

You're cherry picking one stat.
I'll pick RPM. RPM says Ben was 7th among point guards (3.67) where Ricky was 25th (.91).

That was the first and only stat I looked up, what do the other stats say?
I think everyone and their dog knows Ben is a much better player than Rubio.

[shrink]

He's back!

Read on Twitter

As soon as the league confirmed he wasn’t getting his money he came running back lol

I’m sure that the Philly fans will treat him with respect and dignity, recognizing his fragile psyche.

(Am I using too much green font today?)

[Folklore]

Unlike Ricky Rubio, Ben Simmons is a good finisher around the basket and is 6’10”. He’s also a WAY more dynamic defensive player, due to his better athleticism and height.

All true, but he didn’t have a net positive impact much greater than Rubio, so …

for what it's worth, here are the respective player impact plus/minuses over the last 4 seasons (since simmons's rookie year):

6.27 harden
5.12 curry
4.29 lillard
4.20 cp3
3.36 doncic

3.17 westbrook
3.12 kyrie
2.79 lowry
2.75 holiday
2.71 kemba

2.53 conley
1.68 simmons
1.28 rubio
1.17 brogdon
1.03 d murray
1.00 j murray

controls for quality of teammates

doncic is on an upward trajectory and cp3 is drifting in the other direction.

You're cherry picking one stat.
I'll pick RPM. RPM says Ben was 7th among point guards (3.67) where Ricky was 25th (.91).

That was the first and only stat I looked up, what do the other stats say?
I think everyone and their dog knows Ben is a much better player than Rubio.

Take a look at Bens turnovers. I see what you're saying but Bens contract also makes him worse than Rubio.

[wolves_89]

My guess is Simmons showed up because there was little chance of a trade happening in the next 6-8 weeks. Teams are set for the start of the year and are likely waiting to see how their teams look before being interested in pursuing a risky major trade. The only real question at this point is what approach Simmons will take. Will he enact his own version of the Butler/Harden scenario?

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

My guess is Simmons showed up because there was little chance of a trade happening in the next 6-8 weeks. Teams are set for the start of the year and are likely waiting to see how their teams look before being interested in pursuing a risky major trade. The only real question at this point is what approach Simmons will take. Will he enact his own version of the Butler/Harden scenario?

That’s a $37,000,000 question. Let Philly answer it. I like how we’re vibing as a team

[Slim Tubby]

My guess is Simmons showed up because there was little chance of a trade happening in the next 6-8 weeks. Teams are set for the start of the year and are likely waiting to see how their teams look before being interested in pursuing a risky major trade. The only real question at this point is what approach Simmons will take. Will he enact his own version of the Butler/Harden scenario?

Agreed. The only hope Morey has to salvage this situation to build up his value is to have him in the court.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dewey]

We are doing ok and I like Finch, but when regular season starts and we are playing full/healthy rosters, it’ll be a different competitiveness on the floor. Same as regular season going into the playoffs… the bar raises, and some players simply do not translate. Simmons and Beverly can compete with that even with their respective weaknesses, but the majority of our roster still have to answer to that mental and physical challenge.

[Note30]

Would Simmons even want to play for Minnesota?

His return to Philly is interesting, wondering if he'll pull a James Harden and try to tank his trade value

[Domejandro]

Would Simmons even want to play for Minnesota?

His return to Philly is interesting, wondering if he'll pull a James Harden and try to tank his trade value

100% Ben Simmons is comfortable playing in Minnesota; he is also fully comfortable with being traded to Sacramento, apparently.

I kind of think that Ben Simmons is in the "anywhere but Philadelphia"-mindset.

[winforlose]

Would Simmons even want to play for Minnesota?

His return to Philly is interesting, wondering if he'll pull a James Harden and try to tank his trade value

Pretty sure Simmons came out and said he wants to play with KAT. Unless he had some crazy earth shaking 3 team trade in mind I am pretty sure he is open to coming here.

[shrink]

Would Simmons even want to play for Minnesota?

His return to Philly is interesting, wondering if he'll pull a James Harden and try to tank his trade value

When this whole thing started, right after Game 7 made it obvious that Simmons wanted a trade, Doogie said that Simmons would be comfortable coming to Minnesota. However, he immediately followed it up by saying he doesn’t know if he’d be comfortable coming here to play PF.

A week later, there was a rumor that Simmons wanted to go to “three of the four California teams.” However, there has been every indication since then that, like Domejandro said, he has an “anywhere but Philadelphia” mindset. Some talking heads have said Minnesota would be a great fit because he’d avoid a lot of media and fan pressure here.

As for his willingness to show up in PHI, I think this is just to get paid. The Sixers put his second big paycheck in an escrow account, and has been removing money every time he is fined. It is still unlikely he ever plays again in Philadelphia - it’s not on his best interests or frankly in PHI’s. If he melts down under the boos, it isn’t helping Morey get top trade value for him, plus he’d be a giant distraction to the team. I expect we will soon hear he has some unspecified minor injury, and the Sixers asked him to “rehab” away from the team.

[younggunsmn]

As for his willingness to show up in PHI, I think this is just to get paid. The Sixers put his second big paycheck in an escrow account, and has been removing money every time he is fined. It is still unlikely he ever plays again in Philadelphia - it’s not on his best interests or frankly in PHI’s. If he melts down under the boos, it isn’t helping Morey get top trade value for him, plus he’d be a giant distraction to the team. I expect we will soon hear he has some unspecified minor injury, and the Sixers asked him to “rehab” away from the team.

This wasn't Simmons just showing back up because he was afraid of getting fined, this was a negotiated agreement between Rich Paul and Daryl Morey. I would be very surprised if that agreement didn't include a private deadline to trade Simmons, or SImmons is getting nothing out of it besides his paycheck.

Morey said I can't get fair value because you won't report, so SImmons says ok I'll report, you have until X date to take what you can get, which doesn't mean holding out for Lillard and Beal like some moron trying to turn his brand new Ford truck into a lambourghini.

I'm surprised there hasn't been any consideration of getting rid of Rivers who is a grade A moron and responsible for a good amount of the current situation with his public and private comments about SImmons and his complete failure to craft his schemes to maximize Ben's talents.