jg77 wrote:Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
Yes, studies are necessary when large swaths of the population adopt "common sense" concepts from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms.
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jg77 wrote:Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
infinite11285 wrote:jg77 wrote:Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
Yes, studies are necessary when large swaths of the population adopt "common sense" concepts from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms.
infinite11285 wrote:jg77 wrote:Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
Yes, studies are necessary when large swaths of the population adopt "common sense" concepts from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms.
blicka wrote:Can't wait to see doncic on an island vs jimmy butler,paul george or kahwi leonard and those weak ass moves that work in europe getting shut down
jg77 wrote:Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
KhalilS wrote:infinite11285 wrote:jg77 wrote:Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
Yes, studies are necessary when large swaths of the population adopt "common sense" concepts from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms.
Twitter is a great medium for exchanges scientific ideas, most experts from my field are there, and research is always discussed there, regardless, your approach to other people's finding reeks of arrogance and belittling of other people's capacity to research and consult experts on their own.
Studies can be biased, they can be bought and paid for, and many many many time they contradict each other.
John Ioannidis (widely considered one of the best epidemiologists in the field until February 2020 when he disagreed with government policy to counter COVID-19) have published a famous essay on this very subject, it can be found here.
Texas Chuck wrote:FNQ wrote:[
Or more succinctly: the motivations don’t really matter.
His motivations definitely matter. But we should not just make up stuff to demonize "the other side".
But its pretty clearly a calculated political move rather than a what's actually best for the citizens of my state move. And that's really frustrating as a resident of Texas.
KhalilS wrote:The flu disappeared in every place that tests for it, not only the flu, but HCOV and thankfully RSV (which made a vicious comeback this spring), the reason is not the masks, it disappeared also in places with no masking like Sweden, the most acceptable explanation is viral interference theory.
FNQ wrote:Texas Chuck wrote:FNQ wrote:[
Or more succinctly: the motivations don’t really matter.
His motivations definitely matter. But we should not just make up stuff to demonize "the other side".
But its pretty clearly a calculated political move rather than a what's actually best for the citizens of my state move. And that's really frustrating as a resident of Texas.
Well it depends on what problem you're trying to fix. His motivations matter at election time, but in the scope of trying to keep everyone healthy, I dont care if you've got good or bad intentions, if you're wrong, you're wrong.
I understand the positions are tied at the hip but focusing on it allows the pro-virus crowd a chance to elongate or pivot the argument to something unrelated. The social liberal / Republican guy went on a rant about immigration because his BS claims kept getting exposed.. he was wrong on that point too, but if we let them direct the conversation to politics, a more subjective topic, it weakens the medical/scientific argument to the audience.
I think Trump absolutely sucks but if he followed the science and was saying things in-line with the scientific community, would have to agree with him. On that. Only. And then take a shower.
FNQ wrote:KhalilS wrote:infinite11285 wrote:
Yes, studies are necessary when large swaths of the population adopt "common sense" concepts from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms.
Twitter is a great medium for exchanges scientific ideas, most experts from my field are there, and research is always discussed there, regardless, your approach to other people's finding reeks of arrogance and belittling of other people's capacity to research and consult experts on their own.
Studies can be biased, they can be bought and paid for, and many many many time they contradict each other.
John Ioannidis (widely considered one of the best epidemiologists in the field until February 2020 when he disagreed with government policy to counter COVID-19) have published a famous essay on this very subject, it can be found here.
I feel like you just discovered what peer reviews are.
Research is discussed everywhere. Productive discussion comes from the most educated minds having differing beliefs based on repeatable data. The majority of twitter bickering is people with limited understanding, often recently acquired, trying to apply that information based on their limited purview. Worse, if these typically uneducated and incorrect views gain steam, experts then have to try and find a way to dumb down their life's study into a way that the general public can understand.
BTW he was dismissed in early 2020 for lamenting how there was no reliable data to use, and then used unreliable data to make his argument. He was ignored because his arguments did not stand up to any form of.. wait for it.. data-driven criticism!
He argued against lockdowns because he said we didn't know the true effect of the virus. This is true, in March 2020 we didn't know what we had. We didnt know if the lockdowns and safety precautions would work. They did. He compared COVID to seasonal influenza repeatedly. He was wrong.
He can still have a great history - I'm not really sure, I dont know or care - but he didnt get this right. Its not arrogant to point out that his takes were in the vast minority then, and turned out to be wrong.
blicka wrote:Can't wait to see doncic on an island vs jimmy butler,paul george or kahwi leonard and those weak ass moves that work in europe getting shut down
KhalilS wrote:infinite11285 wrote:jg77 wrote:Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
Yes, studies are necessary when large swaths of the population adopt "common sense" concepts from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms.
Twitter is a great medium for exchanges scientific ideas, most experts from my field are there, and research is always discussed there, regardless, your approach to other people's finding reeks of arrogance and belittling of other people's capacity to research and consult experts on their own.
Studies can be biased, they can be bought and paid for, and many many many time they contradict each other.
KhalilS wrote:infinite11285 wrote:jg77 wrote:Do we really need studies and theories to explain common sense?
Yes, studies are necessary when large swaths of the population adopt "common sense" concepts from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms.
Twitter is a great medium for exchanges scientific ideas, most experts from my field are there, and research is always discussed there, regardless, your approach to other people's finding reeks of arrogance and belittling of other people's capacity to research and consult experts on their own.
Studies can be biased, they can be bought and paid for, and many many many time they contradict each other.
John Ioannidis (widely considered one of the best epidemiologists in the field until February 2020 when he disagreed with government policy to counter COVID-19) have published a famous essay on this very subject, it can be found here.
KhalilS wrote:FNQ wrote:KhalilS wrote:
Twitter is a great medium for exchanges scientific ideas, most experts from my field are there, and research is always discussed there, regardless, your approach to other people's finding reeks of arrogance and belittling of other people's capacity to research and consult experts on their own.
Studies can be biased, they can be bought and paid for, and many many many time they contradict each other.
John Ioannidis (widely considered one of the best epidemiologists in the field until February 2020 when he disagreed with government policy to counter COVID-19) have published a famous essay on this very subject, it can be found here.
I feel like you just discovered what peer reviews are.
Research is discussed everywhere. Productive discussion comes from the most educated minds having differing beliefs based on repeatable data. The majority of twitter bickering is people with limited understanding, often recently acquired, trying to apply that information based on their limited purview. Worse, if these typically uneducated and incorrect views gain steam, experts then have to try and find a way to dumb down their life's study into a way that the general public can understand.
BTW he was dismissed in early 2020 for lamenting how there was no reliable data to use, and then used unreliable data to make his argument. He was ignored because his arguments did not stand up to any form of.. wait for it.. data-driven criticism!
He argued against lockdowns because he said we didn't know the true effect of the virus. This is true, in March 2020 we didn't know what we had. We didnt know if the lockdowns and safety precautions would work. They did. He compared COVID to seasonal influenza repeatedly. He was wrong.
He can still have a great history - I'm not really sure, I dont know or care - but he didnt get this right. Its not arrogant to point out that his takes were in the vast minority then, and turned out to be wrong.
We have a control case for the lockdowns, it's called Sweden, and I have no idea how you can argue that Sweden faired worse than any of the other western countries that went full fascist mode, Sweden is in deficient mortality this spring and summer, while locked down countries are still deep into excess, when Denmark lifted their COVID restirctions, they praised Tegnell and the Swedish respone.
I get there can be difference of opinion, what I don't get this certainty you and the rest of lockdown/vaccine pushers have in face of very grim macro data.
KhalilS wrote:FNQ wrote:KhalilS wrote:
Twitter is a great medium for exchanges scientific ideas, most experts from my field are there, and research is always discussed there, regardless, your approach to other people's finding reeks of arrogance and belittling of other people's capacity to research and consult experts on their own.
Studies can be biased, they can be bought and paid for, and many many many time they contradict each other.
John Ioannidis (widely considered one of the best epidemiologists in the field until February 2020 when he disagreed with government policy to counter COVID-19) have published a famous essay on this very subject, it can be found here.
I feel like you just discovered what peer reviews are.
Research is discussed everywhere. Productive discussion comes from the most educated minds having differing beliefs based on repeatable data. The majority of twitter bickering is people with limited understanding, often recently acquired, trying to apply that information based on their limited purview. Worse, if these typically uneducated and incorrect views gain steam, experts then have to try and find a way to dumb down their life's study into a way that the general public can understand.
BTW he was dismissed in early 2020 for lamenting how there was no reliable data to use, and then used unreliable data to make his argument. He was ignored because his arguments did not stand up to any form of.. wait for it.. data-driven criticism!
He argued against lockdowns because he said we didn't know the true effect of the virus. This is true, in March 2020 we didn't know what we had. We didnt know if the lockdowns and safety precautions would work. They did. He compared COVID to seasonal influenza repeatedly. He was wrong.
He can still have a great history - I'm not really sure, I dont know or care - but he didnt get this right. Its not arrogant to point out that his takes were in the vast minority then, and turned out to be wrong.
We have a control case for the lockdowns, it's called Sweden, and I have no idea how you can argue that Sweden faired worse than any of the other western countries that went full fascist mode, Sweden is in deficient mortality this spring and summer, while locked down countries are still deep into excess, when Denmark lifted their COVID restirctions, they praised Tegnell and the Swedish respone.
I get there can be difference of opinion, what I don't get this certainty you and the rest of lockdown/vaccine pushers have in face of very grim macro data.
KhalilS wrote:FNQ wrote:KhalilS wrote:
Twitter is a great medium for exchanges scientific ideas, most experts from my field are there, and research is always discussed there, regardless, your approach to other people's finding reeks of arrogance and belittling of other people's capacity to research and consult experts on their own.
Studies can be biased, they can be bought and paid for, and many many many time they contradict each other.
John Ioannidis (widely considered one of the best epidemiologists in the field until February 2020 when he disagreed with government policy to counter COVID-19) have published a famous essay on this very subject, it can be found here.
I feel like you just discovered what peer reviews are.
Research is discussed everywhere. Productive discussion comes from the most educated minds having differing beliefs based on repeatable data. The majority of twitter bickering is people with limited understanding, often recently acquired, trying to apply that information based on their limited purview. Worse, if these typically uneducated and incorrect views gain steam, experts then have to try and find a way to dumb down their life's study into a way that the general public can understand.
BTW he was dismissed in early 2020 for lamenting how there was no reliable data to use, and then used unreliable data to make his argument. He was ignored because his arguments did not stand up to any form of.. wait for it.. data-driven criticism!
He argued against lockdowns because he said we didn't know the true effect of the virus. This is true, in March 2020 we didn't know what we had. We didnt know if the lockdowns and safety precautions would work. They did. He compared COVID to seasonal influenza repeatedly. He was wrong.
He can still have a great history - I'm not really sure, I dont know or care - but he didnt get this right. Its not arrogant to point out that his takes were in the vast minority then, and turned out to be wrong.
We have a control case for the lockdowns, it's called Sweden, and I have no idea how you can argue that Sweden faired worse than any of the other western countries that went full fascist mode, Sweden is in deficient mortality this spring and summer, while locked down countries are still deep into excess, when Denmark lifted their COVID restirctions, they praised Tegnell and the Swedish respone.
I get there can be difference of opinion, what I don't get this certainty you and the rest of lockdown/vaccine pushers have in face of very grim macro data.
zimpy27 wrote:If you want a good control and case comparison then the best you are going to get is comparing and contrasting inland cities of similar population density and consistent methods of reproting. A few cities with lockdowns and a few without. In the same country with a similar climate would be ideal. This at least cuts out a lot of unnecessary error.
blicka wrote:Can't wait to see doncic on an island vs jimmy butler,paul george or kahwi leonard and those weak ass moves that work in europe getting shut down
KhalilS wrote:zimpy27 wrote:If you want a good control and case comparison then the best you are going to get is comparing and contrasting inland cities of similar population density and consistent methods of reproting. A few cities with lockdowns and a few without. In the same country with a similar climate would be ideal. This at least cuts out a lot of unnecessary error.
Forget unnecessary errors, the claim was that COVID will collapse medical institution and results in mass deaths, Sweden dealt with the pandemic like you were supposed to pre-COVID science, they:
- Recommended staying at hom if you're unwell
- limiting indoor gatherings to 50-500 depending on the severity of the wave
- Recommended working from home for those capable of
- highschool and taught studied online, the rest of schools contonued as regular.
No contact trace and isolate, no maksing, no hysteria, according to what we were lead to believe they were looking at a catastrophe, they did have a horrible wave in spring 2020, bad wave in winter 2021, and they rank now ~50th is death per capita in the world.
Please go back to what the media and "the science" told you in early 2020 about this virus, and ask yourself, is a country that behaved like supposed to have this reaction to the virus?
Sweden is a western country with mountatins of data available, look at Egypt, one of the most densely populated countries in the world (in Cairo and Alexandria, the rest of the country is unpopulated desert), they couldn't afford lockdowns, they also didn't have bodies in the streets.
This isn't a case of let's nitpick data and analyze studies, this is a case of we were given BS prediction of what would happen if we didn't mask up and didn't lockdown.
You are free to believe that the people giving these advises on lockdowns and vaccines are well meaning people, who are driven only by hard science and data, I don't, what I'm asking of you and the rest of this thread, is to please see the failure in these claims and give other people, who no longer accept this narrative the benifit of the doubt, and stop demanding from them unresonable demand like masking their children and don't want to inject foreign sunstance from corrupt and shady company to their bodies, stop the divisive speech of "our patience is wearing thin" and the unscientific claim of "you're putting everyone at risk", live and let live.
FNQ wrote:KhalilS wrote:infinite11285 wrote:
Yes, studies are necessary when large swaths of the population adopt "common sense" concepts from Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms.
Twitter is a great medium for exchanges scientific ideas, most experts from my field are there, and research is always discussed there, regardless, your approach to other people's finding reeks of arrogance and belittling of other people's capacity to research and consult experts on their own.
Studies can be biased, they can be bought and paid for, and many many many time they contradict each other.
John Ioannidis (widely considered one of the best epidemiologists in the field until February 2020 when he disagreed with government policy to counter COVID-19) have published a famous essay on this very subject, it can be found here.
I feel like you just discovered what peer reviews are.
Research is discussed everywhere. [b]Productive discussion comes from the most educated minds having differing beliefs based on repeatable data. [/b]The majority of twitter bickering is people with limited understanding, often recently acquired, trying to apply that information based on their limited purview. Worse, if these typically uneducated and incorrect views gain steam, experts then have to try and find a way to dumb down their life's study into a way that the general public can understand.
BTW he was dismissed in early 2020 for lamenting how there was no reliable data to use, and then used unreliable data to make his argument. He was ignored because his arguments did not stand up to any form of.. wait for it.. data-driven criticism!
He argued against lockdowns because he said we didn't know the true effect of the virus. This is true, in March 2020 we didn't know what we had. We didnt know if the lockdowns and safety precautions would work. They did. He compared COVID to seasonal influenza repeatedly. He was wrong.
He can still have a great history - I'm not really sure, I dont know or care - but he didnt get this right. Its not arrogant to point out that his takes were in the vast minority then, and turned out to be wrong.
art_tatum wrote:I mean you dont see how having a physical barrier between your face and someones droplets doesnt help? Or contact tracing?
Ofc the problem is people wearing the wrong masks / not sealing their nose and mouth making them almost useless (98% of people)
Or that bc there were so many cases (due to people not staying at home, or taking the right precautions, or wearing masks correctly) contract tracing became almost usesless.
Its all connected. But its common sense that these precautions are supposed to help. Its not a narrative, a well worn mask is just physics.
art_tatum wrote:Ofc both "sides" failed in the execution, but how can you argue against the concept of these precautions lol. Again its common sense.
Bringing up other countries, such as sweden, doesnt mean the concepts are the fault, but the execution. If sweden got everyone masked correctly, they wouldve done even better. Why not bring up asian counrries who did even better such as china or s.korea? They had more restrictions and mask mandates than sweden and did better. Why are we worse than korea? Cause our execution sucked.
blicka wrote:Can't wait to see doncic on an island vs jimmy butler,paul george or kahwi leonard and those weak ass moves that work in europe getting shut down
KhalilS wrote:zimpy27 wrote:If you want a good control and case comparison then the best you are going to get is comparing and contrasting inland cities of similar population density and consistent methods of reproting. A few cities with lockdowns and a few without. In the same country with a similar climate would be ideal. This at least cuts out a lot of unnecessary error.
Forget unnecessary errors, the claim was that COVID will collapse medical institution and results in mass deaths, Sweden dealt with the pandemic like you were supposed to pre-COVID science, they:
- Recommended staying at hom if you're unwell
- limiting indoor gatherings to 50-500 depending on the severity of the wave
- Recommended working from home for those capable of
- highschool and taught studied online, the rest of schools contonued as regular.
No contact trace and isolate, no maksing, no hysteria, according to what we were lead to believe they were looking at a catastrophe, they did have a horrible wave in spring 2020, bad wave in winter 2021, and they rank now ~50th is death per capita in the world.
Please go back to what the media and "the science" told you in early 2020 about this virus, and ask yourself, is a country that behaved like supposed to have this reaction to the virus?
Sweden is a western country with mountatins of data available, look at Egypt, one of the most densely populated countries in the world (in Cairo and Alexandria, the rest of the country is unpopulated desert), they couldn't afford lockdowns, they also didn't have bodies in the streets.
This isn't a case of let's nitpick data and analyze studies, this is a case of we were given BS prediction of what would happen if we didn't mask up and didn't lockdown.
You are free to believe that the people giving these advises on lockdowns and vaccines are well meaning people, who are driven only by hard science and data, I don't, what I'm asking of you and the rest of this thread, is to please see the failure in these claims and give other people, who no longer accept this narrative the benifit of the doubt, and stop demanding from them unresonable demand like masking their children and don't want to inject foreign sunstance from corrupt and shady company to their bodies, stop the divisive speech of "our patience is wearing thin" and the unscientific claim of "you're putting everyone at risk", live and let live.
blicka wrote:Can't wait to see doncic on an island vs jimmy butler,paul george or kahwi leonard and those weak ass moves that work in europe getting shut down