2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[lilfishi22]

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So basically "prove it"

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Sarver is going to Sarver - he really should sell the team

If you are not willing to pay Ayton and Bridges via extension - than why did he trade for Paul

And don't get me wrong, last year was great and a lot of fun. But Sarver had a chance to show he had a long term financial vision. And I thought signing guys to one year deals, even McGee, was a LONG TERM FINANCIAL commitment to win. I don't win like the Warriors - as I wasn't sure they couldn't keep Cam J long term. But Ayton, Bridges and Booker. Thats a good core there

I hope this is just the dark before the dawn. But very disappointing that Bobby S is going to Bobby S.

EDIT: And if the Spurs would do the Young for Saric/Smith trade - which allows Sarver the ability to sign Ayton and Bridges longer term, make the damn trade.

We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together. So the truth is the opposite. We can't make that trade. Smith is an NBA player. Keep him.

Sarver is probably watching the preseason and seeing McGee put up numbers and thinks, See? McGee is just as good as Ayton - or better!

Sarver is an idiot. Just plain stupid. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and believes he invented mining and silverware. PROVE ME WRONG, BOBBY!! PLEASE!!!!

This post is just so very much on point about everything!
We were only ever a contending team as long as Saver
Was genuinely willing to commit. The talking part was easy for him, But now that it's time to actually walk the walk, He folds like a cheap suit! This is a very dangerous game he's playing. Not only does it send a very negative message to potential free agents, But it creates serious potential for a rift between Ayton, and the Suns ( from feelings of being disrespected) after playing a key role in helping us get to the finals with his dominant play! Now Saver basically tells him that he DOESN'T value him that much! It's gotta be hard seeing all of these fellow players ( even lesser players) get their money. But he's left out currently, So the pressure from his agent, the media, fellow players, even family and friends could influence things to head in a bad direction. We could even possibly lose Ayton if he feels disrespected enough to take the qualifying offer, etc. But worst of all would be the potential distractions and disconnect between Ayton and the team as a result that could really derail any chemistry and continuity that we've finally established.


We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together.

This is why it is/ was important to keep a solid influx of cheap young contracts ( late first- 2nd round draft picks, Or even undrafted prospects occasionally). This is the important salary ballast for our large scale core contracts.

[Slim Charless]

Sarver is going to Sarver - he really should sell the team

If you are not willing to pay Ayton and Bridges via extension - than why did he trade for Paul

And don't get me wrong, last year was great and a lot of fun. But Sarver had a chance to show he had a long term financial vision. And I thought signing guys to one year deals, even McGee, was a LONG TERM FINANCIAL commitment to win. I don't win like the Warriors - as I wasn't sure they couldn't keep Cam J long term. But Ayton, Bridges and Booker. Thats a good core there

I hope this is just the dark before the dawn. But very disappointing that Bobby S is going to Bobby S.

EDIT: And if the Spurs would do the Young for Saric/Smith trade - which allows Sarver the ability to sign Ayton and Bridges longer term, make the damn trade.

We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together. So the truth is the opposite. We can't make that trade. Smith is an NBA player. Keep him.

Sarver is probably watching the preseason and seeing McGee put up numbers and thinks, See? McGee is just as good as Ayton - or better!

Sarver is an idiot. Just plain stupid. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and believes he invented mining and silverware. PROVE ME WRONG, BOBBY!! PLEASE!!!!

I get what you are saying but if Bobby trades Saric/Smith for Young it opens up $14m of cap space that can be filled by players on the minimum contract alleviating his luxury tax burden.

If you want to win - you have to pay the players. You don't trade for Chris Paul, extend Chris Paul unless you truly are only in this for two years. Sarver is very up and down with his finances. Bigger picture, if you want to win, you need to pay Ayton and Bridges, Period. End of discussion. You have a great core group now - and I agoing to put Ayton and Bridges as higher priorities than Smith moving forward.

Granted, the lux tax burden for Sarver for next year if they do not bring back McGee, Shamet and Nader, but have Saric and Smith and extend DA and Mikal is probably around 20m or so - maybe 25m based on a bit of tweeting with David IV Point Play. This is nothing like what GSW paid last year for Oubre as a repeat repeat well above the Apron lux tax offender.

People keep bringing up $arver signing cp3 and proof that he changed but Chris took a discount to come here. As BW has mentioned numerous times, he also put an out in there to give us a break ok the taxes that the team might suffer down the road. He probably could've gotten more on the open market if he just left.

$arver took that savings and pocketed it. He's the worst owner in sports if he let's Ayton leave this team. That said, I believe that in the end he'll give DA his max.

[lilfishi22]

Sarver is going to Sarver - he really should sell the team

If you are not willing to pay Ayton and Bridges via extension - than why did he trade for Paul

And don't get me wrong, last year was great and a lot of fun. But Sarver had a chance to show he had a long term financial vision. And I thought signing guys to one year deals, even McGee, was a LONG TERM FINANCIAL commitment to win. I don't win like the Warriors - as I wasn't sure they couldn't keep Cam J long term. But Ayton, Bridges and Booker. Thats a good core there

I hope this is just the dark before the dawn. But very disappointing that Bobby S is going to Bobby S.

EDIT: And if the Spurs would do the Young for Saric/Smith trade - which allows Sarver the ability to sign Ayton and Bridges longer term, make the damn trade.

We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together. So the truth is the opposite. We can't make that trade. Smith is an NBA player. Keep him.

Sarver is probably watching the preseason and seeing McGee put up numbers and thinks, See? McGee is just as good as Ayton - or better!

Sarver is an idiot. Just plain stupid. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and believes he invented mining and silverware. PROVE ME WRONG, BOBBY!! PLEASE!!!!

This post is just so very much on point about everything!
We were only ever a contending team as long as Saver
Was genuinely willing to commit. The talking part was easy for him, But now that it's time to actually walk the walk, He folds like a cheap suit! This is a very dangerous game he's playing. Not only does it send a very negative message to potential free agents, But it creates serious potential for a rift between Ayton, and the Suns ( from feelings of being disrespected) after playing a key role in helping us get to the finals with his dominant play! Now Saver basically tells him that he DOESN'T value him that much! It's gotta be hard seeing all of these fellow players ( even lesser players) get their money. But he's left out currently, So the pressure from his agent, the media, fellow players, even family and friends could influence things to head in a bad direction. We could even possibly lose Ayton if he feels disrespected enough to take the qualifying offer, etc. But worst of all would be the potential distractions and disconnect between Ayton and the team as a result that could really derail any chemistry and continuity that we've finally established.


We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together.

This is why it is/ was important to keep a solid influx of cheap young contracts ( late first- 2nd round draft picks, Or even undrafted prospects occasionally). This is the important salary ballast for our large scale core contracts.

You can do the same with cheap vet contracts or vet min deals. Ultimately, if we're talking about the last few spots on the roster, it probably doesn't matter a lot but my preference would be vets who know their role, are good locker room guys and not trying to prove they are NBA players (at the expense of team play).

[Ghost of Kleine]

NBA Math (@NBA_Math) Tweeted:
NEW @HardwoodKnocks!

Phoenix Suns Lookahead w/ @scooperhoops & @protectedpick

Offseason (6:15)
Mikal (14:58)
CP3 (27:58)
Cam (30:59)
Booker (44:40)
Rotation (54:50)
Lineups (1:03:11)

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Duane Rankin (@DuaneRankin) Tweeted:
Deandre Ayton addresses contract talks, saying he's "disappointed" a deal hasn't gotten done and he wants to be respected like his peers as ESPN reported last week contract talks were stalled over getting rookie max extension. #Suns https://t.co/XVtj06fojN

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Dave King (@DaveKingNBA) Tweeted:
My take from LAST week when this news first broke, and my worry about another Joe Johnson situation with either/both of Ayton and Bridges

'Oct 5: ALL THE SMOKE on Ayton extension talks + deep dive on Thad Young' by @sunssolarpanel https://t.co/9ypaHaD1dK

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[Ghost of Kleine]

So if you read between the lines on Savers' comments here even awhile back, His intentions were always to push Ayton and Bridges to restricted free agency, Believing the suns have all the leverage in this situation!
David Kevin (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
This is what Sarver said early in the offseason about the rookie extensions. I caught flak for reacting negatively to it.

The good teams recognise the leverage they have but don't ram it down the other sides throat. The Suns have been trending to being a good team. Big test. https://t.co/CQQcb0ezZC

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But it's really dangerous and ignorant to play this game in that both/ either may truly feel disrespected. Either as a result could easily choose to take their qualifying offer as a result of feeling disrespected and undervalued! You'd have to know that other teams, agents, fellow players will also be in their ears on this situation, and we very well may lose either or both! Aside from that, The bigger issue becomes the potential disruption/ rift/ animosity in that locker room that could very easily derail our entire season and any legitimate chemistry that we've worked so hard to foster!

Best case scenario, You now overpay for both, But the dis connect and hurt feelings and animosity are already there now. It's just not a smart situation to put yourselves in as a franchise.

[lilfishi22]

Having leverage doesn't mean you should/need to use it. I remember a while back when I got my first promotion at work which came with a percentage increase on my original pay. As I went through the numbers I realised they had my original pay lower than what it was suppose to be so the percentage increase would've been based off of that lower number.

I was young in my career, I wasn't NOT going to take the promotion even at the lower pay bump if they weren't going to budge; my company had all the leverage then. But I went and talked to the hiring manager and while they easily could've said, well this is the number we're comfortable with and that'll be that since they had the leverage but instead of a take it or leave it stance, they saw the value I brought to the company and rather than start off on the negative note, they made things right so everyone is on the same page and focused on the common goal.

It's a different situation to Ayton's obviously but there are many situations where you don't have to flex your leverage. If you two parties have a common goal then let's start off on the right foot rather than using ones power to diminish the other's value.

[Ghost of Kleine]

We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together. So the truth is the opposite. We can't make that trade. Smith is an NBA player. Keep him.

Sarver is probably watching the preseason and seeing McGee put up numbers and thinks, See? McGee is just as good as Ayton - or better!

Sarver is an idiot. Just plain stupid. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and believes he invented mining and silverware. PROVE ME WRONG, BOBBY!! PLEASE!!!!

This post is just so very much on point about everything!
We were only ever a contending team as long as Saver
Was genuinely willing to commit. The talking part was easy for him, But now that it's time to actually walk the walk, He folds like a cheap suit! This is a very dangerous game he's playing. Not only does it send a very negative message to potential free agents, But it creates serious potential for a rift between Ayton, and the Suns ( from feelings of being disrespected) after playing a key role in helping us get to the finals with his dominant play! Now Saver basically tells him that he DOESN'T value him that much! It's gotta be hard seeing all of these fellow players ( even lesser players) get their money. But he's left out currently, So the pressure from his agent, the media, fellow players, even family and friends could influence things to head in a bad direction. We could even possibly lose Ayton if he feels disrespected enough to take the qualifying offer, etc. But worst of all would be the potential distractions and disconnect between Ayton and the team as a result that could really derail any chemistry and continuity that we've finally established.


We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together.

This is why it is/ was important to keep a solid influx of cheap young contracts ( late first- 2nd round draft picks, Or even undrafted prospects occasionally). This is the important salary ballast for our large scale core contracts.

You can do the same with cheap vet contracts or vet min deals. Ultimately, if we're talking about the last few spots on the roster, it probably doesn't matter a lot but my preference would be vets who know their role, are good locker room guys and not trying to prove they are NBA players (at the expense of team play).

Definitely a fair perspective. I'd personally prefer the younger cost controlled guys with higher upside and potential growth though in these situations as they'd offer greater percieved value compared to cheap vet contracts and minimum deals, As the perception would obviously be that the reason for those vet min players being so cheap is either that their upside has already plateaued, Or that they provide minimum value for their respective skillsets absent of apparent further growth.

Yes, they'd be fine considerations for a contending team that has already identified their fringe rotation needs. And can target cheap players with singular complimentary contributing skillsets to bolster their current depth. But you should still maintain a reasonable influx of young cheap talent and high upside ( potential for growth) as a backup to the eventual possibilities of losing any of your teams core players to free agency, or even to cheap owners ( cough cough.......Saver)! That are too cheap to foot the bill to maintain an expensive high end core.

These cheaper yet still high end talent would then ( worst case scenario) be groomed as their replacements to help maintain competitive talent level for the team. We currently ( IF actually are all in....... If Saver actually keeps this core together)??? Are fine filling out our fringe roster needs as you described with cost effective vets. But that's ultimately predicated on IF we really trust Saver to open up his wallet to keep us contending! I just prefer us to have a reasonable fallback alternative, As I don't at all expect/ trust Saver to genuinely invest in our core long term. I think he's going to play hardball with Ayton and ultimately lowball Bridges as well, and cause us to lose them. And once that happens, You can pretty much count Booker in as leaving in 2024 ( Just remember..... Booker/ Russell/ Kat are all free agents in 2024, and can then easily choose to team up together someplace like New York or elsewhere absent of a cheap abrasive owner if things go south here with our extensions.

[bwgood77]

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Sarver is going to Sarver - he really should sell the team

If you are not willing to pay Ayton and Bridges via extension - than why did he trade for Paul

And don't get me wrong, last year was great and a lot of fun. But Sarver had a chance to show he had a long term financial vision. And I thought signing guys to one year deals, even McGee, was a LONG TERM FINANCIAL commitment to win. I don't win like the Warriors - as I wasn't sure they couldn't keep Cam J long term. But Ayton, Bridges and Booker. Thats a good core there

I hope this is just the dark before the dawn. But very disappointing that Bobby S is going to Bobby S.

EDIT: And if the Spurs would do the Young for Saric/Smith trade - which allows Sarver the ability to sign Ayton and Bridges longer term, make the damn trade.

We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together. So the truth is the opposite. We can't make that trade. Smith is an NBA player. Keep him.

Sarver is probably watching the preseason and seeing McGee put up numbers and thinks, See? McGee is just as good as Ayton - or better!

Sarver is an idiot. Just plain stupid. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and believes he invented mining and silverware. PROVE ME WRONG, BOBBY!! PLEASE!!!!

One of these reporters needs to ask them if this reminds him of the Joe Johnson situation on his extension where he chose to wait and not lock him in, instead of investing in what could be a contender for years to come? Then he could go on to situations where players who didn't get the extensions wanted out like Kawhi or Joe Johnson or if they didn't want to offer a max they decided to trade them like Harden.

I want to hear some good questions from reporters, not all this stuff where he can give some generic answer.

[Mr Puddles]

Sarver is going to Sarver - he really should sell the team

If you are not willing to pay Ayton and Bridges via extension - than why did he trade for Paul

And don't get me wrong, last year was great and a lot of fun. But Sarver had a chance to show he had a long term financial vision. And I thought signing guys to one year deals, even McGee, was a LONG TERM FINANCIAL commitment to win. I don't win like the Warriors - as I wasn't sure they couldn't keep Cam J long term. But Ayton, Bridges and Booker. Thats a good core there

I hope this is just the dark before the dawn. But very disappointing that Bobby S is going to Bobby S.

EDIT: And if the Spurs would do the Young for Saric/Smith trade - which allows Sarver the ability to sign Ayton and Bridges longer term, make the damn trade.

We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together. So the truth is the opposite. We can't make that trade. Smith is an NBA player. Keep him.

Sarver is probably watching the preseason and seeing McGee put up numbers and thinks, See? McGee is just as good as Ayton - or better!

Sarver is an idiot. Just plain stupid. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and believes he invented mining and silverware. PROVE ME WRONG, BOBBY!! PLEASE!!!!

One of these reporters needs to ask them if this reminds him of the Joe Johnson situation on his extension where he chose to wait and not lock him in, instead of investing in what could be a contender for years to come? Then he could go on to situations where players who didn't get the extensions wanted out like Kawhi or Joe Johnson or if they didn't want to offer a max they decided to trade them like Harden.

I want to hear some good questions from reporters, not all this stuff where he can give some generic answer.

The "problem" with the Joe Johnson situation was that we got Boris Diaw and Robin Lopez out of it (and if it wasn't for those crazy pingpong balls, probably a guy like Horford or Noah instead of Lopez). Plus we got a cheap replacement in raja and Leo broke out - so it's not like the suns were left with a hole at the SG or anything.

The suns left that situation relatively unscathed, the James Harden trade was a disaster for OKC and they've probably learned from it. I'm not sure Sarver has.

[bwgood77]

We need cheap rookie contracts to keep this team together. So the truth is the opposite. We can't make that trade. Smith is an NBA player. Keep him.

Sarver is probably watching the preseason and seeing McGee put up numbers and thinks, See? McGee is just as good as Ayton - or better!

Sarver is an idiot. Just plain stupid. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth and believes he invented mining and silverware. PROVE ME WRONG, BOBBY!! PLEASE!!!!

One of these reporters needs to ask them if this reminds him of the Joe Johnson situation on his extension where he chose to wait and not lock him in, instead of investing in what could be a contender for years to come? Then he could go on to situations where players who didn't get the extensions wanted out like Kawhi or Joe Johnson or if they didn't want to offer a max they decided to trade them like Harden.

I want to hear some good questions from reporters, not all this stuff where he can give some generic answer.

The "problem" with the Joe Johnson situation was that we got Boris Diaw and Robin Lopez out of it (and if it wasn't for those crazy pingpong balls, probably a guy like Horford or Noah instead of Lopez). Plus we got a cheap replacement in raja and Leo broke out - so it's not like the suns were left with a hole at the SG or anything.

The suns left that situation relatively unscathed, the James Harden trade was a disaster for OKC and they've probably learned from it. I'm not sure Sarver has.

I remember him saying he learned from the JJ situation. Diaw was nice, but he was no Joe Johnson at that time. Joe Johnson was PERFECT for that team. He shot like 48% from 3 with Nash. That team was lights out.

Diaw was good to have because of the Amare thing and was a very smart and good player, but I feel like we win titles if we keep JJ there....I remember them saying they still would have signed Bell regardless.

I wonder how Book feels about them not giving these guys extensions...him and Paul if they go into the season with this hanging over their heads.

If this is hanging over their heads, I don't expect good things. The team would play much looser if it was all taken care of.

[Mr Puddles]

Watch on YouTube

Remember Sarver's speech? "our journey is to win an NBA championship".

What a slap in the face to the fanbase it would be if after giving that speech he then the following off-season fails to keep the team together, eventhough guys like Payne and Paul re-signed on deals structured to keep Ayton and Bridges in Suns uniforms.

[bwgood77]

Watch on YouTube

Remember Sarver's speech? "our journey is to win an NBA championship".

What a slap in the face to the fanbase it would be if after giving that speech he then the following off-season fails to keep the team together, eventhough guys like Payne and Paul re-signed on deals structured to keep Ayton and Bridges in Suns uniforms.

If the Ayton deal hasn't gotten done and he only will accept a max, at this point I don't really expect it getting done.

They better get the Bridges one done though.

While locking up Paul was important, for our long term sustainable success, these are very important.

The only reason these will get done is if the players capitulate and just decide that they'd rather secure the money and get it behind them.

Part of me sees them both doing so..but a bigger part of me sees Ayton looking at those other guys in his class and not giving him.

As for Bridges, if they are not at least offering /$90, but preferably at least would go up to 4/$100, then that's ridiculous. I can understand them standing firm at $100, though when push came to shove I'd go to 5/$110.

[Saberestar]

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[Puff]

If we would have drafted Doncic and he would have performed for us like he has with Dallas. I expect that Bob would have had no problem giving him the Supermax. I imagine he would have had not problem paying Tre Young. Both of those guys played like max players before the playoffs and during the playoffs.

Unfortunately Ayton is not Doncic, not even close. Neither are Alexander or Porter worth the max. I know they are getting only the max a measly $179 Million Dollars but they are not worth it. I have no idea why Denver and OKC gave out the max contracts to those guys.

Those contracts are a big problem.

I would not give either Ayton or Bridges a max contracts, THIS YEAR. Play one more year for me, perform like a max player and we can talk. If your feelings are hurt so be it. I expect Bob's feelings were hurt when you tested positive for illegal drugs and missed 25 games. I expect Bob was not happy with Ayton's performance prior to last years playoffs and Bob had pound his head against a wall trying to understand how stupid he was not to draft Doncic. Dallas did not have to pay Chris Paul GaGillion Dollars to teach Doncic how to play.

Prior to the playoffs a lot of us were not convinced that Ayton was the long term answer for this team.

The sky is not falling and I am not a Sarver lover. We will be fine, I think, I hope, maybe.

[Saberestar]

If we would have drafted Doncic and he would have performed for us like he has with Dallas. I expect that Bob would have had no problem giving him the Supermax. I imagine he would have had not problem paying Tre Young. Both of those guys played like max players before the playoffs and during the playoffs.

Unfortunately Ayton is not Doncic, not even close. Neither are Alexander or Porter worth the max. I know they are getting only the max a measly $179 Million Dollars but they are not worth it. I have no idea why Denver and OKC gave out the max contracts to those guys.

Those contracts are a big problem.

I would not give either Ayton or Bridges a max contracts, THIS YEAR. Play one more year for me, perform like a max player and we can talk. If your feelings are hurt so be it. I expect Bob's feelings were hurt when you tested positive for illegal drugs and missed 25 games. I expect Bob was not happy with Ayton's performance prior to last years playoffs and Bob had pound his head against a wall trying to understand how stupid he was not to draft Doncic. Dallas did not have to pay Chris Paul GaGillion Dollars to teach Doncic how to play.

Prior to the playoffs a lot of us were not convinced that Ayton was the long term answer for this team.

The sky is not falling and I am not a Sarver lover. We will be fine, I think, I hope, maybe.

I understand what you are saying and somewhat I agree with you, but this is an sport and a business and to have players with huge potential as Alexander, Porter or Ayton on a $172M/5 years contract is a good decision because their careers and the salary cap are on the raise.

Obviously Doncic and Trae are more of a sure thing and they are already stars in the league, but they are underpaid because of that minimax NBA rules. No way Doncic would sign for anything less than $50M per year, so you have to take that into consideration too.

[alamin330]

If I was Booker I would request a trade. My reasoning would be either pay Ayton and Bridges what they want or trade me. Can’t let this fool ruin us again

[King4Day]

So if you read between the lines on Savers' comments here even awhile back, His intentions were always to push Ayton and Bridges to restricted free agency, Believing the suns have all the leverage in this situation!
David Kevin (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
This is what Sarver said early in the offseason about the rookie extensions. I caught flak for reacting negatively to it.

The good teams recognise the leverage they have but don't ram it down the other sides throat. The Suns have been trending to being a good team. Big test. https://t.co/CQQcb0ezZC

Read on Twitter

?s=20


But it's really dangerous and ignorant to play this game in that both/ either may truly feel disrespected. Either as a result could easily choose to take their qualifying offer as a result of feeling disrespected and undervalued! You'd have to know that other teams, agents, fellow players will also be in their ears on this situation, and we very well may lose either or both! Aside from that, The bigger issue becomes the potential disruption/ rift/ animosity in that locker room that could very easily derail our entire season and any legitimate chemistry that we've worked so hard to foster!

Best case scenario, You now overpay for both, But the dis connect and hurt feelings and animosity are already there now. It's just not a smart situation to put yourselves in as a franchise.

If they wait on Bridges, someone is going to offer him far more than we're comfy with and we'll wind up losing him.
DA I'm not worried about. If no deals are done by next week, I'm guessing he'll get max on day one of FA next offseason (assuming we're capped out and can't use his lack of extension to our advantage).
Bridges.....he's the wild card. Probably wants 25-30mil per and we're offering him 16-20per for 4 years.