OT - Current Affairs/COVID/Vaccines, etc

[wheezy]

Y'all are making me really want to visit AU & NZ.

[lilfishi22]

I was surprised by the 60:40 too, but I think you nailed the reasoning - people don't like change plus a bit of general intolerance mixed in there too.

In Sydney, so just out of lockdown yesterday - feels a bit weird haha

you?

Yeah same! Weekend is going to be nuts. Good weather and finally out of lockdown. I'm going to keep it relatively quiet, see family etc

Me too, I'm actually just most keen to get out of town, so hopefully we hit 80% before this monday and I can escape down the coast for a bit.

Nice to have at least one other suns fan in town

Same! I booked an airbnb for the end of this month up near the Hunter Valley but they have relatively low vaccination rates around those LGA's. Hoping it doesn't spoil my plans. Super keen to get out of Sydney.

[SunsRback4Good]

I haven't been vaccinated yet, so in a sense I am similar to Kyrie Irving.

[grumpysaddle]

I haven't been vaccinated yet, so in a sense I am similar to Kyrie Irving.

Go get that ****. It's free. I got 3 of them and I'm still alive. Only felt body aches for a few hours total. It's science and not politics. We need you around on the board. Better late than never.

[8on]

Good question. The two big parties in Australia still represents the left and right of the political spectrum but they are significantly closer to the middle than the Dems and Republicans of America. I probably follow American politics a little closer than Aussie politics, mostly for the entertainment but also because Australians does take the US lead in many aspects of politics. We followed America into wars, we've followed the American tougher stance on China and we've suddenly made a policy chance to our rather relaxed climate change policy after we did that submarine deal with the US recently ie we're now taking climate change a little more seriously.

Perhaps some folks on this thread can help an American to understand something: why would any country take America's lead on anything? I could understand the mythology surrounding the USA from an outsider's point of view, but I can't understand why American culture (like, for example, the NBA) would take hold anywhere but America. I know most of my fellow Americans would disagree, but I just feel like we're not that important beyond our economic status - and even that is seriously in question in the immediate future.

[8on]

I haven't been vaccinated yet, so in a sense I am similar to Kyrie Irving.

I know this is a whole can of worms, but I think it's everyone's responsibility to be at least a little curious about the thought process behind lockdowns and vaccine development. We really don't know enough about natural COVID immunity to say just how long it would last, and we don't know enough about the vaccine to know who should take it and who shouldn't. I have personal stories where people have had long term reactions to the shot, probably based on some sort of pre-existing condition.

I do think the world should have an immunity mandate, and yes, I absolutely worry about transmitting COVID to anyone. We've seen enough to know that it's extremely dangerous and easy to transmit. But, why couldn't governments have created different high- and low-risk cohorts to keep the world's economy going? Certain hours for cohorts with a green (low-risk) card, others for high-risk cards with much smaller, enforced capacity. The reality is that you're not going to vaccinate all 7.8 billion people on Earth. Some people don't want it. Some people just don't trust government, and I certainly can't blame them for that. People who are vaccinated should be reasonably protected and eligible for booster shots should they feel the need. Barring people who make a private decision from working seems extremely insensitive and misguided.

All in all there's a pharmaceutical profit motive in play here that can't be summarily ignored. It doesn't really make sense to try to vaccine everyone or keep people from working. Those who want to be protected by this point and time are, and those who would rather take the risk have chosen to do so. If you want to keep Kyrie away from your loved ones, that's entirely your right. I don't see what the alternative is; sabotaging the world's economy on behalf of a new vaccine technology that doesn't work for everyone in the same way seems, from this perspective of this American, ludicrous. As long as everyone's protected as much as they want to be, I think we can move on. From a psychological perspective, I certainly can't imagine anyone tolerating lockdown much longer.

[suns12345]

I haven't been vaccinated yet, so in a sense I am similar to Kyrie Irving.

I know this is a whole can of worms, but I think it's everyone's responsibility to be at least a little curious about the thought process behind lockdowns and vaccine development. We really don't know enough about natural COVID immunity to say just how long it would last, and we don't know enough about the vaccine to know who should take it and who shouldn't. I have personal stories where people have had long term reactions to the shot, probably based on some sort of pre-existing condition.

I do think the world should have an immunity mandate, and yes, I absolutely worry about transmitting COVID to anyone. We've seen enough to know that it's extremely dangerous and easy to transmit. But, why couldn't governments have created different high- and low-risk cohorts to keep the world's economy going? Certain hours for cohorts with a green (low-risk) card, others for high-risk cards with much smaller, enforced capacity. The reality is that you're not going to vaccinate all 7.8 billion people on Earth. Some people don't want it. Some people just don't trust government, and I certainly can't blame them for that. People who are vaccinated should be reasonably protected and eligible for booster shots should they feel the need. Barring people who make a private decision from working seems extremely insensitive and misguided.

All in all there's a pharmaceutical profit motive in play here that can't be summarily ignored. It doesn't really make sense to try to vaccine everyone or keep people from working. Those who want to be protected by this point and time are, and those who would rather take the risk have chosen to do so. If you want to keep Kyrie away from your loved ones, that's entirely your right. I don't see what the alternative is; sabotaging the world's economy on behalf of a new vaccine technology that doesn't work for everyone in the same way seems, from this perspective of this American, ludicrous. As long as everyone's protected as much as they want to be, I think we can move on. From a psychological perspective, I certainly can't imagine anyone tolerating lockdown much longer.

It is a can of worms, and your comments are fair, but I would say these few key points
- Unvaccinated people are more likely to spread covid to vulnerable vaccinated people who can still die
- Unvaccinated people are more likely to fill up hospital beds meaning someone coming in with a heart attack for example may die unnecessarily
- The less vaccinated people, the more covid, the more chance of a new variant that we would need a new vaccine for.

So yes, it is a "choice" whether people get vaccinated, but don't make the mistake of thinking its a choice that doesn't negatively impact others.

80 years ago people from all over the world signed up to fight in a war to save the world and faced a high chance of death, yet in 2021 people wont get a free vaccine which is about as dangerous as taking ibuprofen to fix a headache.

[TASTIC]

Y'all are making me really want to visit AU & NZ.

You guys clean up in the exchange rate too.

US$1 = NZ$1.44.

Fast food is expensive-ish - a big mac combo is about nz$12 / us$8.50. But there's enough good local food and pubs/micro-breweries to keep you full. My neighbour runs his own brewery in town, so handy haha

And we have the most breweries in the world per capita. We like a beer or six.

Covid levels here are pretty low. A bad day is 40-50 positives a day across the country and we've only had 28 deaths since last year.

They've done really well staying on top of that, despite a large chunk of the population being unhappy due to some businesses being unable to open/operate fully. Vaccination rates are slow, only 68ish % have had 1, right on 50% have had 2.

[lilfishi22]

Good question. The two big parties in Australia still represents the left and right of the political spectrum but they are significantly closer to the middle than the Dems and Republicans of America. I probably follow American politics a little closer than Aussie politics, mostly for the entertainment but also because Australians does take the US lead in many aspects of politics. We followed America into wars, we've followed the American tougher stance on China and we've suddenly made a policy chance to our rather relaxed climate change policy after we did that submarine deal with the US recently ie we're now taking climate change a little more seriously.

Perhaps some folks on this thread can help an American to understand something: why would any country take America's lead on anything? I could understand the mythology surrounding the USA from an outsider's point of view, but I can't understand why American culture (like, for example, the NBA) would take hold anywhere but America. I know most of my fellow Americans would disagree, but I just feel like we're not that important beyond our economic status - and even that is seriously in question in the immediate future.

It goes back pretty far and I don't claim to be any kind of political junkie or history nut but I think both countries built up a lot of rapport in WW2. Then over the years it seems like Australia has followed the American lead when it comes to sending troops whenever there's conflict.

But America being the super power, it's natural for other non-super power nations to look to America for leadership. It's not always the right way but it has been the way. That's not to say we take America's lead in everything but there are definitely stances we take which follow America's more than others.

I think you underestimate the cultural reach of the US. Yes, economically and militarily the US is still a superpower but you could argue culturally, the US is as much of a super power. From music to Hollywood to technology to even the "freedom", there's a lot of culture that other countries look to the US for inspiration or even adopt.

Silicon Valley for example, it's the birthplace of high technology, start ups and that tech culture. A lot of other countries are trying to build their own version and using Silicon Valley as the model because it seems to foster innovation that those nations can harness and create a new industries from. Personally, I would love to see Aus adopt the US stance on soft drugs like marijuana and it is starting to shift.

But then there's obviously other aspects of American life that we don't agree with like the lack of universal healthcare for one.

[8on]

Good question. The two big parties in Australia still represents the left and right of the political spectrum but they are significantly closer to the middle than the Dems and Republicans of America. I probably follow American politics a little closer than Aussie politics, mostly for the entertainment but also because Australians does take the US lead in many aspects of politics. We followed America into wars, we've followed the American tougher stance on China and we've suddenly made a policy chance to our rather relaxed climate change policy after we did that submarine deal with the US recently ie we're now taking climate change a little more seriously.

Perhaps some folks on this thread can help an American to understand something: why would any country take America's lead on anything? I could understand the mythology surrounding the USA from an outsider's point of view, but I can't understand why American culture (like, for example, the NBA) would take hold anywhere but America. I know most of my fellow Americans would disagree, but I just feel like we're not that important beyond our economic status - and even that is seriously in question in the immediate future.

It goes back pretty far and I don't claim to be any kind of political junkie or history nut but I think both countries built up a lot of rapport in WW2. Then over the years it seems like Australia has followed the American lead when it comes to sending troops whenever there's conflict.

But America being the super power, it's natural for other non-super power nations to look to America for leadership. It's not always the right way but it has been the way. That's not to say we take America's lead in everything but there are definitely stances we take which follow America's more than others.

I think you underestimate the cultural reach of the US. Yes, economically and militarily the US is still a superpower but you could argue culturally, the US is as much of a super power. From music to Hollywood to technology to even the "freedom", there's a lot of culture that other countries look to the US for inspiration or even adopt.

Silicon Valley for example, it's the birthplace of high technology, start ups and that tech culture. A lot of other countries are trying to build their own version and using Silicon Valley as the model because it seems to foster innovation that those nations can harness and create a new industries from. Personally, I would love to see Aus adopt the US stance on soft drugs like marijuana and it is starting to shift.

But then there's obviously other aspects of American life that we don't agree with like the lack of universal healthcare for one.

On that last point, you'll get no argument from me. Some Americans are steadfast in opposing any form of "socialism" but I think the state of our healthcare system is horrific.

It is difficult to see the American cultural impact when you've grown up with it. I was watching a documentary on China's economy last night, and it struck me how they are still making knockoffs of American brands like New Balance. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but with something like a sneaker, it can't be that American sneakers are so much more valuable than sneakers produced elsewhere in the world.

When it comes to our worst exports, like, for example, McDonald's, billions of people could see them for what they are. But what about our culture's best exports are worth importing? Certainly Australia has its own freedom and democracy, burgers and movies, football leagues (yours, not ours - I can't stand American football, personally) and innovation. I can't tell you with any certainty what the strengths of Australia's economy are, but it has to be common knowledge by this point that America is far from the land of milk and honey. Hopefully the rest of the world is realizing that it not only can, but has rivaled Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

I don't mean to sound like an ungrateful American here. I know that the consumer economy of America still blows my mind when I take a step back and think about it. If people around the rest of the world truly are envious of that, then I can understand why, but would urge them to take a deeper look at why that is. We've made everything so cheap to make that most of our workers live paycheck to paycheck. I know there is healthy skepticism of America (as well there should be, especially from within) but I wonder what exactly it is that would make other countries add our culture to theirs. We certainly don't do that over here! Nothing about American culture would suggest its superiority to any other, other than, in some cases, the economic scale.

[lilfishi22]

I haven't been vaccinated yet, so in a sense I am similar to Kyrie Irving.

I know this is a whole can of worms, but I think it's everyone's responsibility to be at least a little curious about the thought process behind lockdowns and vaccine development. We really don't know enough about natural COVID immunity to say just how long it would last, and we don't know enough about the vaccine to know who should take it and who shouldn't. I have personal stories where people have had long term reactions to the shot, probably based on some sort of pre-existing condition.

I do think the world should have an immunity mandate, and yes, I absolutely worry about transmitting COVID to anyone. We've seen enough to know that it's extremely dangerous and easy to transmit. But, why couldn't governments have created different high- and low-risk cohorts to keep the world's economy going? Certain hours for cohorts with a green (low-risk) card, others for high-risk cards with much smaller, enforced capacity. The reality is that you're not going to vaccinate all 7.8 billion people on Earth. Some people don't want it. Some people just don't trust government, and I certainly can't blame them for that. People who are vaccinated should be reasonably protected and eligible for booster shots should they feel the need. Barring people who make a private decision from working seems extremely insensitive and misguided.

All in all there's a pharmaceutical profit motive in play here that can't be summarily ignored. It doesn't really make sense to try to vaccine everyone or keep people from working. Those who want to be protected by this point and time are, and those who would rather take the risk have chosen to do so. If you want to keep Kyrie away from your loved ones, that's entirely your right. I don't see what the alternative is; sabotaging the world's economy on behalf of a new vaccine technology that doesn't work for everyone in the same way seems, from this perspective of this American, ludicrous. As long as everyone's protected as much as they want to be, I think we can move on. From a psychological perspective, I certainly can't imagine anyone tolerating lockdown much longer.

I definitely don't think absolute lockdowns is the best way to handle things but hindsight is 20/20. We have orders of magnitude more data about the disease, the longer term health impacts of covid, the economic, mental and social impacts of covid and we also have a data from 6.5b vaccinations around the world. I don't think any countries did it perfectly and Covid has been a moving target. When we thought we had a handle on things, Delta came and forced us to do things different. The big difference is we have a cheap, accessible, safe and effective vaccine now which we didn't have initially.

It's a learning experience for the world and the hope is that when the next one comes, we can deal with it in a more effective and less socially impactful way.

[lilfishi22]

Perhaps some folks on this thread can help an American to understand something: why would any country take America's lead on anything? I could understand the mythology surrounding the USA from an outsider's point of view, but I can't understand why American culture (like, for example, the NBA) would take hold anywhere but America. I know most of my fellow Americans would disagree, but I just feel like we're not that important beyond our economic status - and even that is seriously in question in the immediate future.

It goes back pretty far and I don't claim to be any kind of political junkie or history nut but I think both countries built up a lot of rapport in WW2. Then over the years it seems like Australia has followed the American lead when it comes to sending troops whenever there's conflict.

But America being the super power, it's natural for other non-super power nations to look to America for leadership. It's not always the right way but it has been the way. That's not to say we take America's lead in everything but there are definitely stances we take which follow America's more than others.

I think you underestimate the cultural reach of the US. Yes, economically and militarily the US is still a superpower but you could argue culturally, the US is as much of a super power. From music to Hollywood to technology to even the "freedom", there's a lot of culture that other countries look to the US for inspiration or even adopt.

Silicon Valley for example, it's the birthplace of high technology, start ups and that tech culture. A lot of other countries are trying to build their own version and using Silicon Valley as the model because it seems to foster innovation that those nations can harness and create a new industries from. Personally, I would love to see Aus adopt the US stance on soft drugs like marijuana and it is starting to shift.

But then there's obviously other aspects of American life that we don't agree with like the lack of universal healthcare for one.

On that last point, you'll get no argument from me. Some Americans are steadfast in opposing any form of "socialism" but I think the state of our healthcare system is horrific.

It is difficult to see the American cultural impact when you've grown up with it. I was watching a documentary on China's economy last night, and it struck me how they are still making knockoffs of American brands like New Balance. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but with something like a sneaker, it can't be that American sneakers are so much more valuable than sneakers produced elsewhere in the world.

When it comes to our worst exports, like, for example, McDonald's, billions of people could see them for what they are. But what about our culture's best exports are worth importing? Certainly Australia has its own freedom and democracy, burgers and movies, football leagues (yours, not ours - I can't stand American football, personally) and innovation. I can't tell you with any certainty what the strengths of Australia's economy are, but it has to be common knowledge by this point that America is far from the land of milk and honey. Hopefully the rest of the world is realizing that it not only can, but has rivaled Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

I don't mean to sound like an ungrateful American here. I know that the consumer economy of America still blows my mind when I take a step back and think about it. If people around the rest of the world truly are envious of that, then I can understand why, but would urge them to take a deeper look at why that is. We've made everything so cheap to make that most of our workers live paycheck to paycheck. I know there is healthy skepticism of America (as well there should be, especially from within) but I wonder what exactly it is that would make other countries add our culture to theirs. We certainly don't do that over here! Nothing about American culture would suggest its superiority to any other, other than, in some cases, the economic scale.

Don't underestimate the position America is in. The best part of America is still the envy of the world in many ways. The less good parts...we just ignore.

[8on]

It goes back pretty far and I don't claim to be any kind of political junkie or history nut but I think both countries built up a lot of rapport in WW2. Then over the years it seems like Australia has followed the American lead when it comes to sending troops whenever there's conflict.

But America being the super power, it's natural for other non-super power nations to look to America for leadership. It's not always the right way but it has been the way. That's not to say we take America's lead in everything but there are definitely stances we take which follow America's more than others.

I think you underestimate the cultural reach of the US. Yes, economically and militarily the US is still a superpower but you could argue culturally, the US is as much of a super power. From music to Hollywood to technology to even the "freedom", there's a lot of culture that other countries look to the US for inspiration or even adopt.

Silicon Valley for example, it's the birthplace of high technology, start ups and that tech culture. A lot of other countries are trying to build their own version and using Silicon Valley as the model because it seems to foster innovation that those nations can harness and create a new industries from. Personally, I would love to see Aus adopt the US stance on soft drugs like marijuana and it is starting to shift.

But then there's obviously other aspects of American life that we don't agree with like the lack of universal healthcare for one.

On that last point, you'll get no argument from me. Some Americans are steadfast in opposing any form of "socialism" but I think the state of our healthcare system is horrific.

It is difficult to see the American cultural impact when you've grown up with it. I was watching a documentary on China's economy last night, and it struck me how they are still making knockoffs of American brands like New Balance. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but with something like a sneaker, it can't be that American sneakers are so much more valuable than sneakers produced elsewhere in the world.

When it comes to our worst exports, like, for example, McDonald's, billions of people could see them for what they are. But what about our culture's best exports are worth importing? Certainly Australia has its own freedom and democracy, burgers and movies, football leagues (yours, not ours - I can't stand American football, personally) and innovation. I can't tell you with any certainty what the strengths of Australia's economy are, but it has to be common knowledge by this point that America is far from the land of milk and honey. Hopefully the rest of the world is realizing that it not only can, but has rivaled Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

I don't mean to sound like an ungrateful American here. I know that the consumer economy of America still blows my mind when I take a step back and think about it. If people around the rest of the world truly are envious of that, then I can understand why, but would urge them to take a deeper look at why that is. We've made everything so cheap to make that most of our workers live paycheck to paycheck. I know there is healthy skepticism of America (as well there should be, especially from within) but I wonder what exactly it is that would make other countries add our culture to theirs. We certainly don't do that over here! Nothing about American culture would suggest its superiority to any other, other than, in some cases, the economic scale.

Don't underestimate the position America is in. The best part of America is still the envy of the world in many ways. The less good parts...we just ignore.

I just can't imagine that I haven't overestimated America all my life. But I guess I'd have to live somewhere else to truly understand that, which I haven't.

[bigfoot]

Spoiler:

Perhaps some folks on this thread can help an American to understand something: why would any country take America's lead on anything? I could understand the mythology surrounding the USA from an outsider's point of view, but I can't understand why American culture (like, for example, the NBA) would take hold anywhere but America. I know most of my fellow Americans would disagree, but I just feel like we're not that important beyond our economic status - and even that is seriously in question in the immediate future.

It goes back pretty far and I don't claim to be any kind of political junkie or history nut but I think both countries built up a lot of rapport in WW2. Then over the years it seems like Australia has followed the American lead when it comes to sending troops whenever there's conflict.

But America being the super power, it's natural for other non-super power nations to look to America for leadership. It's not always the right way but it has been the way. That's not to say we take America's lead in everything but there are definitely stances we take which follow America's more than others.

I think you underestimate the cultural reach of the US. Yes, economically and militarily the US is still a superpower but you could argue culturally, the US is as much of a super power. From music to Hollywood to technology to even the "freedom", there's a lot of culture that other countries look to the US for inspiration or even adopt.

Silicon Valley for example, it's the birthplace of high technology, start ups and that tech culture. A lot of other countries are trying to build their own version and using Silicon Valley as the model because it seems to foster innovation that those nations can harness and create a new industries from. Personally, I would love to see Aus adopt the US stance on soft drugs like marijuana and it is starting to shift.

But then there's obviously other aspects of American life that we don't agree with like the lack of universal healthcare for one.

On that last point, you'll get no argument from me. Some Americans are steadfast in opposing any form of "socialism" but I think the state of our healthcare system is horrific.

It is difficult to see the American cultural impact when you've grown up with it. I was watching a documentary on China's economy last night, and it struck me how they are still making knockoffs of American brands like New Balance. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but with something like a sneaker, it can't be that American sneakers are so much more valuable than sneakers produced elsewhere in the world.

When it comes to our worst exports, like, for example, McDonald's, billions of people could see them for what they are. But what about our culture's best exports are worth importing? Certainly Australia has its own freedom and democracy, burgers and movies, football leagues (yours, not ours - I can't stand American football, personally) and innovation. I can't tell you with any certainty what the strengths of Australia's economy are, but it has to be common knowledge by this point that America is far from the land of milk and honey. Hopefully the rest of the world is realizing that it not only can, but has rivaled Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

I don't mean to sound like an ungrateful American here. I know that the consumer economy of America still blows my mind when I take a step back and think about it. If people around the rest of the world truly are envious of that, then I can understand why, but would urge them to take a deeper look at why that is. We've made everything so cheap to make that most of our workers live paycheck to paycheck. I know there is healthy skepticism of America (as well there should be, especially from within) but I wonder what exactly it is that would make other countries add our culture to theirs. We certainly don't do that over here! Nothing about American culture would suggest its superiority to any other, other than, in some cases, the economic scale.

I think the real issue is we have outsourced most manufacturing to other countries (e.g., China) to make it cheap to be an American consumer. Sadly, this leaves an enormous number of "service-oriented" jobs for Americans which are typically low-paying. construction, fast food workers, restaurant staff, barbers, hairdressers, etc. Sure the tech industry is booming in the USA but not enough Americans are able to pursue that craft in college either because of affordability or lack of preparation in high school.

It would be nice to see significantly more "Made in the USA" labels.

[lilfishi22]

Spoiler:

It goes back pretty far and I don't claim to be any kind of political junkie or history nut but I think both countries built up a lot of rapport in WW2. Then over the years it seems like Australia has followed the American lead when it comes to sending troops whenever there's conflict.

But America being the super power, it's natural for other non-super power nations to look to America for leadership. It's not always the right way but it has been the way. That's not to say we take America's lead in everything but there are definitely stances we take which follow America's more than others.

I think you underestimate the cultural reach of the US. Yes, economically and militarily the US is still a superpower but you could argue culturally, the US is as much of a super power. From music to Hollywood to technology to even the "freedom", there's a lot of culture that other countries look to the US for inspiration or even adopt.

Silicon Valley for example, it's the birthplace of high technology, start ups and that tech culture. A lot of other countries are trying to build their own version and using Silicon Valley as the model because it seems to foster innovation that those nations can harness and create a new industries from. Personally, I would love to see Aus adopt the US stance on soft drugs like marijuana and it is starting to shift.

But then there's obviously other aspects of American life that we don't agree with like the lack of universal healthcare for one.

On that last point, you'll get no argument from me. Some Americans are steadfast in opposing any form of "socialism" but I think the state of our healthcare system is horrific.

It is difficult to see the American cultural impact when you've grown up with it. I was watching a documentary on China's economy last night, and it struck me how they are still making knockoffs of American brands like New Balance. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but with something like a sneaker, it can't be that American sneakers are so much more valuable than sneakers produced elsewhere in the world.

When it comes to our worst exports, like, for example, McDonald's, billions of people could see them for what they are. But what about our culture's best exports are worth importing? Certainly Australia has its own freedom and democracy, burgers and movies, football leagues (yours, not ours - I can't stand American football, personally) and innovation. I can't tell you with any certainty what the strengths of Australia's economy are, but it has to be common knowledge by this point that America is far from the land of milk and honey. Hopefully the rest of the world is realizing that it not only can, but has rivaled Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

I don't mean to sound like an ungrateful American here. I know that the consumer economy of America still blows my mind when I take a step back and think about it. If people around the rest of the world truly are envious of that, then I can understand why, but would urge them to take a deeper look at why that is. We've made everything so cheap to make that most of our workers live paycheck to paycheck. I know there is healthy skepticism of America (as well there should be, especially from within) but I wonder what exactly it is that would make other countries add our culture to theirs. We certainly don't do that over here! Nothing about American culture would suggest its superiority to any other, other than, in some cases, the economic scale.

I think the real issue is we have outsourced most manufacturing to other countries (e.g., China) to make it cheap to be an American consumer. Sadly, this leaves an enormous number of "service-oriented" jobs for Americans which are typically low-paying. construction, fast food workers, restaurant staff, barbers, hairdressers, etc. Sure the tech industry is booming in the USA but not enough Americans are able to pursue that craft in college either because of affordability or lack of preparation in high school.

It would be nice to see significantly more "Made in the USA" labels.

Made in the USA, just like Made in Australia still resonates in a lot of people. There's a sense of pride and quality when I see those tags. The issue is that very few people are willing or could afford to pay for it. For something to be manufactured in the US or Aus, you're paying for those wages and it's a hard sell when you can get the same quality for half the price.

As an example, there's a company called Origin Maine founded by Jocko Willink and I've purchased a couple of items from them because I'm a fan of his, fan of the company's history and I love the quality. It's made in the USA, it's high quality, I can feel a significant difference to my shirts I buy off ASOS. Problem is that it's a $30 shirt and you could probably get 3 branded (eg Adidas) shirts for that price. As much as I want to support local producers and manufacturing, I'm just one person and I probably would eventually go broke if I bought everything Made in Australia.

[Biff]

I am very skeptical about the salary cap growing as much as is expected. This country is just waiting for that economic bubble to burst and when it does it's not going to be pretty. The chances of the salary cap expanding during the coming recession/depression is very unlikely. The fed is pretty much screwed. If they continue to keep interest rates low, printing money like crazy, stagflation and hyperinflation is pretty much a given. If they raise rates, there's likely to be a SEVERE economic downtown. However, raising interest rates is the only thing that is going to correct this problem over time. Keeping things as they are is never going to solve the problem.

[Bogyo]

I am very skeptical about the salary cap growing as much as is expected. This country is just waiting for that economic bubble to burst and when it does it's not going to be pretty. The chances of the salary cap expanding during the coming recession/depression is very unlikely. The fed is pretty much screwed. If they continue to keep interest rates low, printing money like crazy, stagflation and hyperinflation is pretty much a given. If they raise rates, there's likely to be a SEVERE economic downtown. However, raising interest rates is the only thing that is going to correct this problem over time. Keeping things as they are is never going to solve the problem.

Agreed. However, the problem is that the last high inflation era was in the 70s. Noone really remembers that, not even the FED, and they thik they can just solve it (relatively) easily, as they solved the financial part of the covid crisis. That might not be true, and they seem to also forget that there is only one thing harder than raising the CPI level - and it is to lower it after it started. But this could (will?) take 1-2-3 more years. The later the worse it will get, but I truly don't think that it will be next year. The stock markets (usually) dont have a bear market (20% decline) only once in a decade (6-10yrs), and we had our last fall like that during the covid. So next one is only "due" in 4-8 years on average. So the next salary cap / tv money will kick in by then easy.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Moved this out of the Mikal Bridges thread:

I am very skeptical about the salary cap growing as much as is expected. This country is just waiting for that economic bubble to burst and when it does it's not going to be pretty. The chances of the salary cap expanding during the coming recession/depression is very unlikely. The fed is pretty much screwed. If they continue to keep interest rates low, printing money like crazy, stagflation and hyperinflation is pretty much a given. If they raise rates, there's likely to be a SEVERE economic downtown. However, raising interest rates is the only thing that is going to correct this problem over time. Keeping things as they are is never going to solve the problem.

Agreed. However, the problem is that the last high inflation era was in the 70s. Noone really remembers that, not even the FED, and they thik they can just solve it (relatively) easily, as they solved the financial part of the covid crisis. That might not be true, and they seem to also forget that there is only one thing harder than raising the CPI level - and it is to lower it after it started. But this could (will?) take 1-2-3 more years. The later the worse it will get, but I truly don't think that it will be next year. The stock markets (usually) dont have a bear market (20% decline) only once in a decade (6-10yrs), and we had our last fall like that during the covid. So next one is only "due" in 4-8 years on average. So the next salary cap / tv money will kick in by then easy.

It's really hard to project forward. I thought we were in a bubble before COVID, and then the Fed came in and bought something around $7 trillion worth of stocks and bonds in the open market - something they'd never done before. They continue purchasing now, despite markets being at these crazy-high levels. Add that to the roughly $3 trillion deficit the federal government runs currently, and you can't help but conclude that the economy only works because of government debt at this point. It's hard to believe we'll ever unwind any of this, as no politician will want to be the one who asks for the check. We'll just play musical chairs until some unlucky President is left holding the bag when the bottom falls out.

When or how that happens, or what comes next, is anyone's guess. But one thing you can't do is point to history for parallels, as there are none. Late-70s looks similar at first glance, but the scale of our current situation is totally disproportionate, there's no apparent potential for anything like the oil embargo, and no one with the spine of a Paul Volcker will be nominated any time soon.

What bothers me is all the hemming and hawing over labor costs and government handouts to the poor and middle class when so many trillions are flying straight into the investment accounts of the ultra-wealthy (and so many foreigners, as half of US securities are held overseas). Like always, we're screaming about pennies while ignoring the dollars.

Oh, well. Just another day in America.

[Biff]

I am very skeptical about the salary cap growing as much as is expected. This country is just waiting for that economic bubble to burst and when it does it's not going to be pretty. The chances of the salary cap expanding during the coming recession/depression is very unlikely. The fed is pretty much screwed. If they continue to keep interest rates low, printing money like crazy, stagflation and hyperinflation is pretty much a given. If they raise rates, there's likely to be a SEVERE economic downtown. However, raising interest rates is the only thing that is going to correct this problem over time. Keeping things as they are is never going to solve the problem.

Agreed. However, the problem is that the last high inflation era was in the 70s. Noone really remembers that, not even the FED, and they thik they can just solve it (relatively) easily, as they solved the financial part of the covid crisis. That might not be true, and they seem to also forget that there is only one thing harder than raising the CPI level - and it is to lower it after it started. But this could (will?) take 1-2-3 more years. The later the worse it will get, but I truly don't think that it will be next year. The stock markets (usually) dont have a bear market (20% decline) only once in a decade (6-10yrs), and we had our last fall like that during the covid. So next one is only "due" in 4-8 years on average. So the next salary cap / tv money will kick in by then easy.

Nobody really knows when the bottom fill fall out. Many analysts have been expecting it for some time now. If hyperinflation gets out of hand, the fed will have to do something. It's already a problem. I know tons of people that are barely able to pay their bills right now due to cost of living increases.

Maybe it doesn't happen next year but I don't expect it to go beyond 2022. I'll be extremely surprised if they can keep up this charade for much longer.

[bwgood77]

Moved this out of the Mikal Bridges thread:

I am very skeptical about the salary cap growing as much as is expected. This country is just waiting for that economic bubble to burst and when it does it's not going to be pretty. The chances of the salary cap expanding during the coming recession/depression is very unlikely. The fed is pretty much screwed. If they continue to keep interest rates low, printing money like crazy, stagflation and hyperinflation is pretty much a given. If they raise rates, there's likely to be a SEVERE economic downtown. However, raising interest rates is the only thing that is going to correct this problem over time. Keeping things as they are is never going to solve the problem.

Agreed. However, the problem is that the last high inflation era was in the 70s. Noone really remembers that, not even the FED, and they thik they can just solve it (relatively) easily, as they solved the financial part of the covid crisis. That might not be true, and they seem to also forget that there is only one thing harder than raising the CPI level - and it is to lower it after it started. But this could (will?) take 1-2-3 more years. The later the worse it will get, but I truly don't think that it will be next year. The stock markets (usually) dont have a bear market (20% decline) only once in a decade (6-10yrs), and we had our last fall like that during the covid. So next one is only "due" in 4-8 years on average. So the next salary cap / tv money will kick in by then easy.

It's really hard to project forward. I thought we were in a bubble before COVID, and then the Fed came in and bought something around $7 trillion worth of stocks and bonds in the open market - something they'd never done before. They continue purchasing now, despite markets being at these crazy-high levels. Add that to the roughly $3 trillion deficit the federal government runs currently, and you can't help but conclude that the economy only works because of government debt at this point. It's hard to believe we'll ever unwind any of this, as no politician will want to be the one who asks for the check. We'll just play musical chairs until some unlucky President is left holding the bag when the bottom falls out.

When or how that happens, or what comes next, is anyone's guess. But one thing you can't do is point to history for parallels, as there are none. Late-70s looks similar at first glance, but the scale of our current situation is totally disproportionate, there's no apparent potential for anything like the oil embargo, and no one with the spine of a Paul Volcker will be nominated any time soon.

What bothers me is all the hemming and hawing over labor costs and government handouts to the poor and middle class when so many trillions are flying straight into the investment accounts of the ultra-wealthy (and so many foreigners, as half of US securities are held overseas). Like always, we're screaming about pennies while ignoring the dollars.

Oh, well. Just another day in America.

I've been expecting a bubble burst since well before COVID, but when they were pumping trillions into the economy once COVID started right when the bubble was finally actually bursting...probably a needed correction, it just propped everything back up. So I keep thinking it's coming, but it seems like these days they just want to keep the gravy train going and if it gets close to bad, pump more money into the economy.

I remember in the early 2000s telling people there was a housing bubble and people called me an idiot...people were taking out secondary mortgages to buy investment properties and it finally did bust...and it was bigger because it came longer. There had not been a housing bubble burst since like the Great Depression.

Yes, the inflation is already hurting the lower class and widening the class separation.

But back to Biff's point about that salary cap, that whole thing is due to jump because of a huge new tv deal in 3 years which is a completely separate thing.