Curry & Harden would've averaged 40 a game in the 90's. Change my mind

[JJ_PR]

The amount of skill that Curry & Harden have is unprecedented. Their ability to shoot from beyond the arc & drain difficult long range shots would've cemented them as all time greats in that era.

Michael Jordan was super skilled but I don't think he was as good offensively as Curry & Harden. People need to appreciate what we've witnessed in those two guys. They truly are generational talents.

Defense was tougher back in the day, but Steph & Harden are experts @ creating space for themselves.

Prime Harden was absolutely ridiculous, & so was Curry, although I think Curry has more prime years left. Harden looks a bit out of shape, but if he gets back to form watch out. He & Kevin Durant could win a few rings together.

[Reeko]

Nuff said.

Watch on YouTube

[RoxSteady]

Hand checking was allowed, so no.

On the other hand, for three years the three point line was moved about 2 feet closer. But still no.

[SlovenianDragon]

I think they would get called for palming and traveling more than anything.

Rules were different then.

Now rules are subjective.

Handles are sick but most of the time its illegal.

Double step backs are sick but most of the time its illegal.

Back then they would be called on their ****.

Now its just whatever.

[JJ_PR]

Nuff said.

Michael was truly special, there's no denying that.

[Currygoat]

People need to understand that players are more skilled now days.

[SlovenianDragon]

People need to understand that players are more skilled now days.

Skilled at breaking rules the league and refs turn a blind eye towards.

[ZombieKilla]

Hand checking was still allowed.
Neither Curry or Harden are better than Jordan or Olajuwon and they didn’t average 40.
So, no.

[Currygoat]

Hand checking was allowed, so you're wrong. Unless you're talking about that year when the three point line was moved closer.

Hand checking won’t work on these skilled guys. Listen to what guys like Gilbert Arenas

Watch on YouTube

[Bornstellar]

Guys think chucking 3s non stop = more skill

[rapstarter]

Great players like Curry and Harden could have played a role in changing this but the pace was slower especially in mid to late 90s.

[giberish]

Some teams (the Shaq/Kobe Lakers perhaps most notably) designed their defense to protect the rim and avoid drive and kick 3's at the cost of allowing guards relatively open off the dribble jump shots. This was effective as off the dribble jump shots were relatively low % and no guards of the era could really hurt them this way.

Curry/Harden/Lillard - in this case especially Curry - would have broken those defenses. A simple 1/5 PNR gets Curry an effectively uncontested off the dribble 3 against those teams every time down the floor. If one of those teams is stubborn then Curry really could go for 50 in a half from all the open looks. I still don't see them averaging 40 ppg though. Most teams had other defensive strategies that don't give up such easy shots by design, and even the ones that generally did would redesign their defense for the special cases (likely at a big cost of either having bigs used to defending only near the rim being caught in space more or brining a lot of help D to give open looks to teammates).

In general the lower pace keeps anyone from going for 40, even if the different level of off the dribble shooting compared to the rest of the league would make them unique offensive forces.

[ciueli]

Hand checking was allowed, so no.

On the other hand, for three years the three point line was moved about 2 feet closer. But still no.

Hand checking was mostly eliminated by the mid-90s when they made it illegal to hand check perimeter players until they were below the free throw line.

You can see the complete list of rule changes over the years here (hand check rule change is 1994-95):
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/56807508/nba-rules-changes-history

[Peregrine01]

It's difficult to compare across different eras. So IMO, it's only useful to compare players/teams within eras.

With that said, almost everything gets better over time. It's a little nonsensical to think that basketball isn't one of them. And this coming from someone who used to think that Jordan's era was the best ever.

[Biff]

Doubtful. Pace was much slower in that era.

[og15]

Why? That's the first question you need to answer. After you answer that question then there's nothing left to discuss.

[Quattro]

Hand checking was allowed, so you're wrong. Unless you're talking about that year when the three point line was moved closer.

Hand checking won’t work on these skilled guys. Listen to what guys like Gilbert Arenas

Watch on YouTube

We’ll if Gilbert Arenas says it, it must be true. I’m sold.

I mean, every offense Gilbert ever saw on an NBA court was technically unstoppable because he was the one trying to stop them.

[KrazyP]

As a reverse argument, I think guys like Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond and Glen Rice would probably score 30+ in this era.

[anatomicbomb]

Some teams (the Shaq/Kobe Lakers perhaps most notably) designed their defense to protect the rim and avoid drive and kick 3's at the cost of allowing guards relatively open off the dribble jump shots. This was effective as off the dribble jump shots were relatively low % and no guards of the era could really hurt them this way.

Curry/Harden/Lillard - in this case especially Curry - would have broken those defenses. A simple 1/5 PNR gets Curry an effectively uncontested off the dribble 3 against those teams every time down the floor. If one of those teams is stubborn then Curry really could go for 50 in a half from all the open looks. I still don't see them averaging 40 ppg though. Most teams had other defensive strategies that don't give up such easy shots by design, and even the ones that generally did would redesign their defense for the special cases (likely at a big cost of either having bigs used to defending only near the rim being caught in space more or brining a lot of help D to give open looks to teammates).

In general the lower pace keeps anyone from going for 40, even if the different level of off the dribble shooting compared to the rest of the league would make them unique offensive forces.

And to be fair to the defenses in question, if Curry and Harden were playing in the 90s, teams would absolutely adjust game plans to slow these players down, so we can't entertain a hypothetical in a vacuum. The game would look different, but (I feel like quoting Omar at the moment), "the game still the game." Mainly for lack of spacing and pacing I agree there's really no chance that they average 40, but they would probably be good enough to change how defense was played, at least against their teams.

[Lunartic]

Agreed, there's absolutely no way 90's players would have realized they had to actually guard shooters at the 3 point line.

You see, back then defense was optional and if you ran far enough away from the rim, you were left alone.

Unlike today's defense, which is hard nosed and physical and players like Harden and Curry are constantly hand-checked, bodied up and are forced to earn their FTA.