PG: Pistons vs Knicks

[robillionaire]

Thibs setting the tone early so the team can hit the ground running. I have no problem with him coaching as if these games matter. It’s actually quite refreshing cuz I remember the days of going into the 1st month of the season with no set rotation and coaches like Fiz and Hornacek still playing 11-man rotations.

The eat what you kill, we got dogs, yada yada days How quickly we forgot

Forum asked for a culture change, got it, proceeded to complain.

i hate all this winning, i didn't become a knicks fan because i wanted to watch a team win games, this is not what i signed up for, i would like a refund

[thebuzzardman]

So, first two games, IQ at PG looked much better than last year or SL.
This 3rd game, IQ at PG looked every bit as bad as the worst version IQ PG from last year.

Someone might be able to articulate it better, but teams that pick him up a little higher, pressure him, get him wasting that 5 seconds east/west or doing nothing that better PG's don't do. Which leads to some hurried stuff in the halfcourt.

He wasn't awful. He made some solid reads at different points.

I think IQ can play PG in those games Rose/Kemba miss and it'll work against teams not that committed to defense. If he faces teams that actually give a sh*t about defense that night or all the time like Miami, those nights might get a little long for IQ's 20 PG minutes.
But, in effect IQ is the teams 3rd string PG, and traditionally that's been a pretty end of the bench guy along with the 3rd C. So it's not the end of the world. It's just one of the risks inherent in having Kemba/Rose as the PG duo.

[robillionaire]

So, first two games, IQ at PG looked much better than last year or SL.
This 3rd game, IQ at PG looked every bit as bad as the worst version IQ PG from last year.

Someone might be able to articulate it better, but teams that pick him up a little higher, pressure him, get him wasting that 5 seconds east/west or doing nothing that better PG's don't do. Which leads to some hurried stuff in the halfcourt.

He wasn't awful. He made some solid reads at different points.

I think IQ can play PG in those games Rose/Kemba miss and it'll work against teams not that committed to defense. If he faces teams that actually give a sh*t about defense that night or all the time like Miami, those nights might get a little long for IQ's 20 PG minutes.
But, in effect IQ is the teams 3rd string PG, and traditionally that's been a pretty end of the bench guy along with the 3rd C. So it's not the end of the world. It's just one of the risks inherent in having Kemba/Rose as the PG duo.

rose plays better off the bench, and IQ and Toppin and others play better with Rose. with kemba out maybe they should just do what they did last year and play burks at PG. keep rose and iq tandem on the bench. obviously mcbride ain't playing

[thebuzzardman]

So, first two games, IQ at PG looked much better than last year or SL.
This 3rd game, IQ at PG looked every bit as bad as the worst version IQ PG from last year.

Someone might be able to articulate it better, but teams that pick him up a little higher, pressure him, get him wasting that 5 seconds east/west or doing nothing that better PG's don't do. Which leads to some hurried stuff in the halfcourt.

He wasn't awful. He made some solid reads at different points.

I think IQ can play PG in those games Rose/Kemba miss and it'll work against teams not that committed to defense. If he faces teams that actually give a sh*t about defense that night or all the time like Miami, those nights might get a little long for IQ's 20 PG minutes.
But, in effect IQ is the teams 3rd string PG, and traditionally that's been a pretty end of the bench guy along with the 3rd C. So it's not the end of the world. It's just one of the risks inherent in having Kemba/Rose as the PG duo.

rose plays better off the bench, and IQ and Toppin and others play better with Rose. with kemba out maybe they should just do what they did last year and play burks at PG. keep rose and iq tandem on the bench. obviously mcbride ain't playing

IQ is decent. He's a decent undersized SG. Which means if he doesn't learn PG better, he becomes a 1 position player. So he'll be at risk of losing minutes to Burks this year, or maybe his spot to a taller or better or better varied version. But he's decent right now and Knicks have some time to develop him at PG. But yeah, Thibs will show little patience and if he falters, Burks is getting more minutes at the point.

[HEZI]

I think thats fair. I would even put Julius in the above. Julius carried us last year the extra few minutes in the preseason isn't going to change him as a player one way or another. He is a workout warrior he will be ready to go.

Preseason just doesn't mean much to me if they come out and lose to boston in the opener no one will care they went 4-0 in the preseason.

But I get, thibs is thibs and his way isn't for everyone (he even has admitted that)

Read on Twitter

But thibs isn't perfect...he stubbornly refused to remove Payton from the lineup way too late in the post season (should have done it in the regular season) and we could never adjust. He has his faults and just because we appreciate him as a coach also means you can't point out his flaws.

It worked out because no one got injured...if Randle went down I'm sure we would be having a totally different conversation right now.

The fact that Randle didn't get injured should be topic of conversation, no? Yet it's the other way around, we are playing the what if game and not accepting what actually happened. Knicks were one of the healthies teams in the entire league last year, with Thibs being Thibs. Yet, what we do want to focus on is what if scenarios. There are coaches who load managed players and still lost them to injuries before the playoffs. I mean, nobody is perfect, you are right, and neither are your suggestions and opinions or those of other coaches around the league.

I mean there are analytics that suggest guys playing certain amount of minutes or b2b 30 minutes each night are at a higher risk for injury. Its kind of why the NBA has gone to "load management". This theory didn't come out of thin air.

We were healthy last year but there are years and years of data and maybe last year was an outlier. Time will tell.

Again there is a reason that Thibs is like the only coach that treats preseason like this. There are many successful coaches that don't. Thibs is our nut job and I appreciate that everything means something to him. He doesn't waiver.

But he is also stubborn and a nut job. Those can be both the case at the same time. I'm just saying hopefully the bad side of that doesn't rear its ugly head one day.

There is no consistency with that at all whatsoever. Do you know what analytics say to Thibs? If I don't play my key guys big minutes I'm not winning many games

If guys are going to get hurt, they will get hurt because of the nature of the game. This whole big minutes=injuries argument is so lazy and not needed. Are guys in shape, what are their genes, body type, play style, are we talking freak injuries or some long term thing years down the road, you got trainers and medical team there for a reason, you got individual players with different circumstances, all pro athletes are supposed to listen to their body and communicate with trainers and coaches. That's how load management is supposed to go, player not feeling good enough to play, sit the game out. If you are available to the coach then you are available. Unless you are on a minutes restriction for whatever reason, then you are good to go. The team isn't good enough to afford key guys to sit out for long stretches, so as long as that's the case they won't. We aren't a super team, so there is no on/off switch we can hit during the season. We aren't a young rebuilding team where slow progress is the route. They are aiming to be better than last year and Thibs is going to push them to achieve that. Rotation will be short, nonsense won't be tolerated, he's going to coach from opening tip until final buzzer, it's awesome and great to see. Injuries can and will happen regardless of coaching, that's just the nature of the game. You know this already but we need something to complain about like every year so here we are.

[prophet_of_rage]

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Real sick. And all yuh was crying in di game tread.

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dey really deserve some licks

And one hot pinch.

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[Fat]

This team will definitely take a step back on defense but they will still play hard and be good enough on that end but I don’t see them repeating the same intensity as last year

[dakomish23]

we need kemba back so rj can just be a spot up shooter. making him do more is no good. needs to stay in his lane as a solid 3 and d player

Blasphemy

[FreeSpiritNY]

[*]

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Low key I thought in the playoffs I thought the fans had something to do with it but today as of today only until the season starts I am totally wrong but I’ll admit when I am wrong and so far I’m beyond wrong =)

[HEZI]

The eat what you kill, we got dogs, yada yada days How quickly we forgot

Forum asked for a culture change, got it, proceeded to complain.

i hate all this winning, i didn't become a knicks fan because i wanted to watch a team win games, this is not what i signed up for, i would like a refund

I want to see them win, I want a 15 man rotation, no injuries, nobody can play more than 30 minutes, I want good ball movement, excellent defense, lots of good shots and buckets, I want all the rookies to play and contribute, I want more lotto picks and playoff wins, I want a young team no older than 21 so they can be a dynasty for 10+ years, I want everybody on rookie scale max contracts, I want Dolan to sell the team, I want better looking sideline reporter.

Wake up Leon! Wake up Thibs! It's not rocket science!

[Clyde_Style]

Thibs setting the tone early so the team can hit the ground running. I have no problem with him coaching as if these games matter. It’s actually quite refreshing cuz I remember the days of going into the 1st month of the season with no set rotation and coaches like Fiz and Hornacek still playing 11-man rotations.

The eat what you kill, we got dogs, yada yada days How quickly we forgot

Forum asked for a culture change, got it, proceeded to complain.

and COY in Thibs' first year as Knicks coach

[Clyde_Style]

The eat what you kill, we got dogs, yada yada days How quickly we forgot

Forum asked for a culture change, got it, proceeded to complain.

i hate all this winning, i didn't become a knicks fan because i wanted to watch a team win games, this is not what i signed up for, i would like a refund

[FreeSpiritNY]

Thibs setting the tone early so the team can hit the ground running. I have no problem with him coaching as if these games matter. It’s actually quite refreshing cuz I remember the days of going into the 1st month of the season with no set rotation and coaches like Fiz and Hornacek still playing 11-man rotations.

Compared to other years they will come out with the same amount of minutes played because there is less pre season games.

Thibs is the opposite of Joe judge the giants head coach.

He didn’t play his starters in preseason and it shows.

You get paid millions upon millions you should be able to work half a year. Along with take care of you’re body.

I did so when I wasn’t getting paid millions with a personal chef and my own facility and personal doctors.


People really over look into the minutes.

My coach would rub us down in practice because he said even if your having bad games you’ll out play them on defense and they will be tired and once they are tired you will catch back up and out score them.

We won the title that year and went undefeated.

Long story short condition yourself in the off season do post game regime to take care of you’re body and you should be fine.

[mpharris36]

The fact that Randle didn't get injured should be topic of conversation, no? Yet it's the other way around, we are playing the what if game and not accepting what actually happened. Knicks were one of the healthies teams in the entire league last year, with Thibs being Thibs. Yet, what we do want to focus on is what if scenarios. There are coaches who load managed players and still lost them to injuries before the playoffs. I mean, nobody is perfect, you are right, and neither are your suggestions and opinions or those of other coaches around the league.

I mean there are analytics that suggest guys playing certain amount of minutes or b2b 30 minutes each night are at a higher risk for injury. Its kind of why the NBA has gone to "load management". This theory didn't come out of thin air.

We were healthy last year but there are years and years of data and maybe last year was an outlier. Time will tell.

Again there is a reason that Thibs is like the only coach that treats preseason like this. There are many successful coaches that don't. Thibs is our nut job and I appreciate that everything means something to him. He doesn't waiver.

But he is also stubborn and a nut job. Those can be both the case at the same time. I'm just saying hopefully the bad side of that doesn't rear its ugly head one day.

There is no consistency with that at all whatsoever. Do you know what analytics say to Thibs? If I don't play my key guys big minutes I'm not winning many games

If guys are going to get hurt, they will get hurt because of the nature of the game. This whole big minutes=injuries argument is so lazy and not needed. Are guys in shape, what are their genes, body type, play style, are we talking freak injuries or some long term thing years down the road, you got trainers and medical team there for a reason, you got individual players with different circumstances, all pro athletes are supposed to listen to their body and communicate with trainers and coaches. That's how load management is supposed to go, player not feeling good enough to play, sit the game out. If you are available to the coach then you are available. Unless you are on a minutes restriction for whatever reason, then you are good to go. The team isn't good enough to afford key guys to sit out for long stretches, so as long as that's the case they won't. We aren't a super team, so there is no on/off switch we can hit during the season. We aren't a young rebuilding team where slow progress is the route. They are aiming to be better than last year and Thibs is going to push them to achieve that. Rotation will be short, nonsense won't be tolerated, he's going to coach from opening tip until final buzzer, it's awesome and great to see. Injuries can and will happen regardless of coaching, that's just the nature of the game. You know this already but we need something to complain about like every year so here we are.

at this point you aren't even talking about what I was concerned about for a preseason game.

2 things matter come playoff time. Your talent and your teams health. No one will care about the Knicks winning a preseason game in a month.

[Meat]

Thibs setting the tone early so the team can hit the ground running. I have no problem with him coaching as if these games matter. It’s actually quite refreshing cuz I remember the days of going into the 1st month of the season with no set rotation and coaches like Fiz and Hornacek still playing 11-man rotations.

The eat what you kill, we got dogs, yada yada days How quickly we forgot

Forum asked for a culture change, got it, proceeded to complain.

i spent the last 20+ years of my life watching the knicks, of course i dont know how to let myself feel pride\happiness

[HEZI]

I mean there are analytics that suggest guys playing certain amount of minutes or b2b 30 minutes each night are at a higher risk for injury. Its kind of why the NBA has gone to "load management". This theory didn't come out of thin air.

We were healthy last year but there are years and years of data and maybe last year was an outlier. Time will tell.

Again there is a reason that Thibs is like the only coach that treats preseason like this. There are many successful coaches that don't. Thibs is our nut job and I appreciate that everything means something to him. He doesn't waiver.

But he is also stubborn and a nut job. Those can be both the case at the same time. I'm just saying hopefully the bad side of that doesn't rear its ugly head one day.

There is no consistency with that at all whatsoever. Do you know what analytics say to Thibs? If I don't play my key guys big minutes I'm not winning many games

If guys are going to get hurt, they will get hurt because of the nature of the game. This whole big minutes=injuries argument is so lazy and not needed. Are guys in shape, what are their genes, body type, play style, are we talking freak injuries or some long term thing years down the road, you got trainers and medical team there for a reason, you got individual players with different circumstances, all pro athletes are supposed to listen to their body and communicate with trainers and coaches. That's how load management is supposed to go, player not feeling good enough to play, sit the game out. If you are available to the coach then you are available. Unless you are on a minutes restriction for whatever reason, then you are good to go. The team isn't good enough to afford key guys to sit out for long stretches, so as long as that's the case they won't. We aren't a super team, so there is no on/off switch we can hit during the season. We aren't a young rebuilding team where slow progress is the route. They are aiming to be better than last year and Thibs is going to push them to achieve that. Rotation will be short, nonsense won't be tolerated, he's going to coach from opening tip until final buzzer, it's awesome and great to see. Injuries can and will happen regardless of coaching, that's just the nature of the game. You know this already but we need something to complain about like every year so here we are.

at this point you aren't even talking about what I was concerned about for a preseason game.

2 things matter come playoff time. Your talent and your teams health. No one will care about the Knicks winning a preseason game in a month.

I actually am, but your 2nd sentence highlights why you ignored it. The coach will care, the players will care, if they achieve anything this year I can guarantee you they will talk about the habits and principles and goals and accountability they talked about and tried to instill from day 1 and how they tried to carry it into preseason and regular season. Watched way too many successful teams talk about this year after year, where it all starts. It doesn't start in game 1 of the regular season, never has and never will. Thibs, a good coach, is very much aware of this.

[mpharris36]

There is no consistency with that at all whatsoever. Do you know what analytics say to Thibs? If I don't play my key guys big minutes I'm not winning many games

If guys are going to get hurt, they will get hurt because of the nature of the game. This whole big minutes=injuries argument is so lazy and not needed. Are guys in shape, what are their genes, body type, play style, are we talking freak injuries or some long term thing years down the road, you got trainers and medical team there for a reason, you got individual players with different circumstances, all pro athletes are supposed to listen to their body and communicate with trainers and coaches. That's how load management is supposed to go, player not feeling good enough to play, sit the game out. If you are available to the coach then you are available. Unless you are on a minutes restriction for whatever reason, then you are good to go. The team isn't good enough to afford key guys to sit out for long stretches, so as long as that's the case they won't. We aren't a super team, so there is no on/off switch we can hit during the season. We aren't a young rebuilding team where slow progress is the route. They are aiming to be better than last year and Thibs is going to push them to achieve that. Rotation will be short, nonsense won't be tolerated, he's going to coach from opening tip until final buzzer, it's awesome and great to see. Injuries can and will happen regardless of coaching, that's just the nature of the game. You know this already but we need something to complain about like every year so here we are.

at this point you aren't even talking about what I was concerned about for a preseason game.

2 things matter come playoff time. Your talent and your teams health. No one will care about the Knicks winning a preseason game in a month.

I actually am, but your 2nd sentence highlights why you ignored it. The coach will care, the players will care, if they achieve anything this year I can guarantee you they will talk about the habits and principles and goals and accountability they talked about and tried to instill from day 1 and how they tried to carry it into preseason and regular season. Watched way too many successful teams talk about this year after year, where it all starts. It doesn't start in game 1 of the regular season, never has and never will. Thibs, a good coach, is very much aware of this.

who is saying thibs isn't a good coach? He is.

Mike Malone is a good coach too. His team is 0-4 in preseason and they just lost to the Thunder. Are they not accountable or preparing for the season as well?

[HEZI]

at this point you aren't even talking about what I was concerned about for a preseason game.

2 things matter come playoff time. Your talent and your teams health. No one will care about the Knicks winning a preseason game in a month.

I actually am, but your 2nd sentence highlights why you ignored it. The coach will care, the players will care, if they achieve anything this year I can guarantee you they will talk about the habits and principles and goals and accountability they talked about and tried to instill from day 1 and how they tried to carry it into preseason and regular season. Watched way too many successful teams talk about this year after year, where it all starts. It doesn't start in game 1 of the regular season, never has and never will. Thibs, a good coach, is very much aware of this.

who is saying thibs isn't a good coach? He is.

Mike Malone is a good coach too. His team is 0-4 in preseason and they just lost to the Thunder. Are they not accountable or preparing for the season as well?

Are we the Nuggets? Do we have a league MVP? Also, didn't Jamal Murray tear his ACL playing for him which ultimately cost them everything in the playoffs? Well there goes your whole theory huh?

[mpharris36]

I actually am, but your 2nd sentence highlights why you ignored it. The coach will care, the players will care, if they achieve anything this year I can guarantee you they will talk about the habits and principles and goals and accountability they talked about and tried to instill from day 1 and how they tried to carry it into preseason and regular season. Watched way too many successful teams talk about this year after year, where it all starts. It doesn't start in game 1 of the regular season, never has and never will. Thibs, a good coach, is very much aware of this.

who is saying thibs isn't a good coach? He is.

Mike Malone is a good coach too. His team is 0-4 in preseason and they just lost to the Thunder. Are they not accountable or preparing for the season as well?

Are we the Nuggets? Do we have a league MVP? Also, didn't Jamal Murray tear his ACL playing for him which ultimately cost them everything in the playoffs? Well there goes your whole theory huh?

This ain't no theory, you and I both know that if we had the league MVP Thibs still wouldn't change his approach (D-Rose basically admitted that in his post game presser). Thibs is thibs. You take the good with the bad. Good thing there is far more good then there is bad when it comes to Thibs...unlike a lot of our previous coaches that sucked at coaching.

[HEZI]

who is saying thibs isn't a good coach? He is.

Mike Malone is a good coach too. His team is 0-4 in preseason and they just lost to the Thunder. Are they not accountable or preparing for the season as well?

Are we the Nuggets? Do we have a league MVP? Also, didn't Jamal Murray tear his ACL playing for him which ultimately cost them everything in the playoffs? Well there goes your whole theory huh?

This ain't no theory, you and I both know that if we had the league MVP Thibs still wouldn't change his approach (D-Rose basically admitted that in his post game presser). Thibs is thibs. You take the good with the bad. Good thing there is far more good then there is bad when it comes to Thibs...unlike a lot of our previous coaches that sucked at coaching.

But you just ducking your own theory to basically come to a conclusion of different coaches have different methods. Did you arrive at what is right and what is wrong? Of course not, because the coach you just compared Thibs to lost a player to an ACL injury and guess what? He's not Thibs and doesn't coach like Thibs. So what was your point again? Thibs has his way, right we know this, but did you prove his method is wrong? No unfortunately not.