Curry & Harden would've averaged 40 a game in the 90's. Change my mind

[LBJKB24MJ23]

if they couldn't score 40 per night now, what makes you think they can score 40 back then lmao.

[Jkam31]

if they couldn't score 40 per night now, what makes you think they can score 40 back then lmao.

It’s embarrassing we are all dumber for opening this thread

[Mickey8]

Harden is not even that great of a shooter , he's just taking many attempts, you have much better examples than him.

[Wallace_Wallace]

Hand checking was allowed, so you're wrong. Unless you're talking about that year when the three point line was moved closer.

Hand checking won’t work on these skilled guys. Listen to what guys like Gilbert Arenas

Watch on YouTube

We’ll if Gilbert Arenas says it, it must be true. I’m sold.

I mean, every offense Gilbert ever saw on an NBA court was technically unstoppable because he was the one trying to stop them.

As great as he was, not everything Michael Jordan said was right as well, especially his opinion in picking talents as an executive.

Did you actually watch the video, or were you too busy insulting Gilbert Arenas?

[Danny1616]

A lot of logical fallacies in this thread.

Why would Curry need to adapt to the 1990s style?

The reason he would dominate is because he would be so far ahead of his time, the league would have to adapt to him. This already happened after 2016 when the entire league adapted to Curry's playstyle.

We saw Curry in 2015 and 2016 revolutionize the league with switching because it became impossible to guard him on a pick and roll with a slow traditional big. Curry was taking what used to be considered bad three point shots off balanced and turning it into the most efficient and effective shot in the game.

[BostonCouchGM]

I think they would get called for palming and traveling more than anything.

Rules were different then.

Now rules are subjective.

Handles are sick but most of the time its illegal.

Double step backs are sick but most of the time its illegal.

Back then they would be called on their ****.

Now its just whatever.

you just dont know the rules. gathers steps have been in the nba since the 80s.

nah, it sounds like YOU don't know the rules. Gather steps going to the basket on lay-ups are one thing, gather steps and crow hops backwards and side-ways away from the basket are another. And guys palm/carry simply walking the ball up the court now. All this "hesi" dribbles that allow guys to get by defenders are illegal. And most of the PnR used today are illegal moving screens. THAT'S what PGs rely on to get separation nowadays. That wouldn't work back then.

[Lockdown504090]

I think they would get called for palming and traveling more than anything.

Rules were different then.

Now rules are subjective.

Handles are sick but most of the time its illegal.

Double step backs are sick but most of the time its illegal.

Back then they would be called on their ****.

Now its just whatever.

you just dont know the rules. gathers steps have been in the nba since the 80s.

nah, it sounds like YOU don't know the rules. Gather steps going to the basket on lay-ups are one thing, gather steps and crow hops backwards and side-ways away from the basket are another. And guys palm/carry simply walking the ball up the court now. All this "hesi" dribbles that allow guys to get by defenders are illegal. And most of the PnR used today are illegal moving screens. THAT'S what PGs rely on to get separation nowadays. That wouldn't work back then.

they arent another thing, they are all the same thing. carrying rules are atually different now, screens are as illegal as theyve ever been. Michael Jordan palmed the ball just as much as kawhi and giannis without getting called for it. go read the rules of each violation you are referring to then come back and say sorry.

[dhsilv2]

I dont see how it matters if you just throw harden or curry into the 90s?

The bulls regularly guarded the other teams ballhandler from the inbound pass and if curry/harden are playing with 90s players who cant shot... It doesnt change anything.

https://youtu.be/xg7iGuwaBKE?t=1069

GOAT right here not even responding to a pretty good 3 point shooter being wide open.

And while you do see the bull often near ball handlers full court, Curry does his damage more off ball and Harden's game is mostly his step back and drive ability.

Ok there are also many youtube videos that show them full court pressing ball handlers, whats your point?

"It's preatty easy to defend when 4 of 5 players can't shoot"

"In 90s = defense have to start not 19 ft from the basket like in the 90's but more like 29 ft like now = more space to cover and more space for your teammates (who also can shoot) = defense doesnt look so great anymore"

If you throw harden or curry into the 90s they would be playing with guys who cant shot... So then the latter obviously makes zero sense.

And i guess nobody played off ball in the 90s

Miller killed teams playing off ball much like Curry does today just a poor man's version.

While a team might follow a ball handler...but I mean I posted a full nba finals game with the 96 bulls at their absolute best so watch it, you'll see that there's hardly some constant pressure there. Nor is there high attention to the 3 point line. They do guard out too it on the initial setup. But rotations and close outs look nothing like we see today and we're listing the best perimeter defensive team of the era, not a normal average team. Not even a very good one. This was the absolute best.

[DCasey91]

How is Curry or Harden going to average 40?

If Curry spams 12 threes (which won’t happen duh 90’s ball but okay for experiment sake) and hits 40% that’s 14.4 points.... heck we’ll round it up and give Curry as much fantasy as possible. So he hits 5 threes a game, okay is that possible? I mean he’s done it so let’s go with that.

15 points, cool now let’s give him ten at the ft line count em ten and he hits 9.

15 + 9 = 24 points on 12 FGA, assuming he hits at 50% for everything else. Wait call it 57% (2016 season) or better yet 8-14. He’d have to take say 14 FGA just to make up the remainder (8/14 = 16 points)

15 + 9 + 16 = BINGO! (Mafs)

Curry statline would read out like this:

26 FGA’s @ 50/40/90 while getting to the line ten times a game and attempting 12 threes per game while averaging 57% on any 2 pt shot... that has to be his average production just to average 40 points a game.

His best season he got the line 6.3 times but now let’s give him 10. Heavy Jump shooting, less driving and foul drawing work at different spectrums like this case.

Curry has never been close to this. In fact no one has. His best year ever he would actually need 27 FGA’s per game and not 26 (told you we have be generous here to even make it realistic). Also he would break his own 402 3 point record assuming he plays 82 games (once again fantasy stuff) but he’d have to do it in the 90’s lmao

30.1/20.2 = 1.49 x 27
= 40.2

For Harden.... I CBF lol. He would need 27+ FGA’s in his very best season not 24.5.

If that doesn’t change your mind then frankly nothing will. Isn’t MJ the only one to hit 27 FGA for a guard in the 90’s? Wait no scratch that it was the 80’s, he didn’t even get 27 in the next decade. Also efficiency should drop because your are taking on way way more volume than ever before?

Baylor did a 33/38
MJ 27.8/37.1

Wilt did it twice and no one less has been close. End discussion

[twyzted]

https://youtu.be/xg7iGuwaBKE?t=1069

GOAT right here not even responding to a pretty good 3 point shooter being wide open.

And while you do see the bull often near ball handlers full court, Curry does his damage more off ball and Harden's game is mostly his step back and drive ability.

Ok there are also many youtube videos that show them full court pressing ball handlers, whats your point?

"It's preatty easy to defend when 4 of 5 players can't shoot"

"In 90s = defense have to start not 19 ft from the basket like in the 90's but more like 29 ft like now = more space to cover and more space for your teammates (who also can shoot) = defense doesnt look so great anymore"

If you throw harden or curry into the 90s they would be playing with guys who cant shot... So then the latter obviously makes zero sense.

And i guess nobody played off ball in the 90s

Miller killed teams playing off ball much like Curry does today just a poor man's version.

While a team might follow a ball handler...but I mean I posted a full nba finals game with the 96 bulls at their absolute best so watch it, you'll see that there's hardly some constant pressure there. Nor is there high attention to the 3 point line. They do guard out too it on the initial setup. But rotations and close outs look nothing like we see today and we're listing the best perimeter defensive team of the era, not a normal average team. Not even a very good one. This was the absolute best.

I only pointed out that if you throw curry/harden into the 90s then they would play with guys who cant shot, they wouldnt have 3-4 shooters with them.

you would think that the players/coaches would react if a guy is just pulling up from the logo and torching them.

But honestly i dont really care how they would do in the 90s i just thought the bolded part in my last reply made no sense.

[Amares]

How many points they would score depends on many factors, but for sure they would murder 90s teams. Defense was much too poor to play efficiently against them.

[twyzted]

Hand checking is a huge factor. Is slowed the balled handler down and made is easier for perimeter defenders.

Hands on players today is not even close to the same as it was. The NBA has moved the game to make it more perimeter friendly, fouls on almost everything to free up the offense.

It’s easy to understand, not sure how people don’t understand that.

It doesn’t happened every game, but imagine The bad boy pistons pulling the Jordan rules on him?

Jordan rules don’t work on Harden. Harden has about 30 pounds on MJ and can out muscle a lot of big men. Jordan was a skinny, wiry guard who avoided contact through acrobatic athleticism. Harden bulls right though you.

Harden 6'5 220
Jordan 6'6 218
Plus Jordan was way more athletic then harden.

Watch on YouTube

[DCasey91]

How many points they would score depends on many factors, but for sure they would murder 90s teams. Defense was much too poor to play efficiently against them.

Having six guys in the paint cuts off a lot of driving lane for both.

Broke down the numbers just before, it’s not happening for either.

[Antinomy]

Anybody who claims handchecking (which was outlawed in 1979) would actually affect ballhandlers nowadays is fooling themselves.

A lot of people watch games & see the fancy ball handling but don’t pay attention to the off-hand & footwork being used.

Most advanced ballhandlers today are taught to discard the defender by lowering shoulders, discreet push-offs or slapping away the hand.

Curry & Harden are the last guys who’d have trouble playing back then. Now, Durant is a guy who I think would struggle to dribble back then but would still dominate due to the illegal defense rules & being able to clear out one side of the floor.

[Antinomy]

How many points they would score depends on many factors, but for sure they would murder 90s teams. Defense was much too poor to play efficiently against them.

Having six guys in the paint cuts off a lot of driving lane for both.

Broke down the numbers just before, it’s not happening for either.

Why put them in the paint when I could just clear out one side of the floor or go 1-4 flat & iso every time?

The illegal defense rules which forced defenders to cover bad offensive players off the ball, greatly benefit iso stars & guys who create off the dribble.

[Jkam31]

Anybody who claims handchecking (which was outlawed in 1979) would actually affect ballhandlers nowadays is fooling themselves.

A lot of people watch games & see the fancy ball handling but don’t pay attention to the off-hand & footwork being used.

Most advanced ballhandlers today are taught to discard the defender by lowering shoulders, discreet push-offs or slapping away the hand.

Curry & Harden are the last guys who’d have trouble playing back then. Now, Durant is a guy who I think would struggle to dribble back then but would still dominate due to the illegal defense rules & being able to clear out one side of the floor.

Comical

[draftnightsuit]

Hand checking is a huge factor. Is slowed the balled handler down and made is easier for perimeter defenders.

Hands on players today is not even close to the same as it was. The NBA has moved the game to make it more perimeter friendly, fouls on almost everything to free up the offense.

It’s easy to understand, not sure how people don’t understand that.

It doesn’t happened every game, but imagine The bad boy pistons pulling the Jordan rules on him?

Jordan rules don’t work on Harden. Harden has about 30 pounds on MJ and can out muscle a lot of big men. Jordan was a skinny, wiry guard who avoided contact through acrobatic athleticism. Harden bulls right though you.

Harden 6'5 220
Jordan 6'6 218
Plus Jordan was way more athletic then harden.

Watch on YouTube

Official listed weights:

Harden - 220
Jordan - 198

Those are their official basketball-reference weights. Although I’ll give you that Jordan is likely closer to 205 while Harden is about 230-235. Jordan was never close to 218 except for the Wizards years when he was fat and slow.

Michael Jordan wasn’t even a physical player. Yes, he’s more athletic than Harden, but he avoided contact. Harden embraces contact. He’s the bigger, stronger, more physical player and you wouldn’t defend Harden the way you defend MJ.

MJ was only good at dominating midget ‘90s guards like John Starks, Rex Chapman, Hershey Hawkins, etc…

[DCasey91]

If you score:

30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39 in ten games

That would equal = 345

For the next ten games to average back to 40, you would need a whopping 45.5 just to even up the ledger.

I wonder how long stretches, let alone a season that the best guard scorers ever has had.

400 points in ten games is astronomical for anyone at any time.

Harden was basically that but for only half a season.

So Harden plays 40 games averages 40 and pulls a hammy and gets it via technicality lol. But we would need to throw out all the 90’s schemes, philosophy, basically basketball and replace it with fantasy numbers to even make it probable.

Fact is it’s not possible

[DCasey91]

How many points they would score depends on many factors, but for sure they would murder 90s teams. Defense was much too poor to play efficiently against them.

Having six guys in the paint cuts off a lot of driving lane for both.

Broke down the numbers just before, it’s not happening for either.

Why put them in the paint when I could just clear out one side of the floor or go 1-4 flat & iso every time?

The illegal defense rules which forced defenders to cover bad offensive players off the ball, greatly benefit iso stars & guys who create off the dribble.

Because the only way to get to 40 is to actually live at the line and drive (which Curry has never done in his career)

It’s fantasy stuff. Look at the numbers it’s not happening or even close to it.

[Kobe187]

if they couldn't score 40 per night now, what makes you think they can score 40 back then lmao.

Lol this. They wouldn’t get the shooting fouls they do now as those were seldom called unless there was severe contact, hand checking (both hands) was allowed, today’s flagrant 1’s were just average fouls, etc. A team scoring 90 points was considered good.Today’s high scoring, shooter friendly league is tailored towards easy offence.

Watch on YouTube