If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade)

[Prokorov]

Ben Simmons would be a terrible fit/downgrade here in place of Kyrie.

This.

0 games of Kyrie > 82 games of Simmons.

I'm not gonna go that far but I'd definitely rather roll the dice with Kyrie possibly getting vaccine and/or mandate changes than have Simmons. Unless I know for certain that Kyrie can't play a single game for us anymore, I would not consider a trade for Simmons.

i meant 82 games this year. Kyrie said he isn't retiring and the nets seem willing to welcome him back once he is vaxxed or the mandate is lifted. I know the extension isnt going be offered (deadline is next week and he isnt back yet) which makes sense but i assume, like with harden, they would offer both long term deals.

[MGrand15]

I think the extension talk is premature considering Kyrie is essentially threatening to sit out the year. We're not going to waste a year waiting on him. He'll get traded sooner than later if he keeps it up. The championship window is 100% now. If he gets vaccinated and comes back - who knows. Marks was pretty pissed during his press conference. Tsai makes the final call here and if he's done with Kyrie, that extension won't be back on the table. Considering his shenanigans with an organization that's given him everything he could possibly ask for - I wouldn't blame Tsai at all.

At this point, I'd 100% take Kyrie for Simmons. I'd even throw in picks. Simmons fits here beautifully - especially considering we have 2 floor spacing 5s on the roster along with 4 great to elite shooters. He'd obviously be a huge upgrade to our defense.

It's not worth talking about though because Philly isn't going from the 2nd biggest headache in the league to the biggest headache by far. Kyrie burning a bridge with Brooklyn would demolish his trade value. We've given him everything he could possibly ask for in a team. Top to bottom in every way imaginable. He's responded by ghosting the team multiple times and leaving his teammates out to dry.

[MrDollarBills]

A little while ago today I was talking to a co worker, who is going back to her childhood home in India for a few weeks. Her mother and 7 other relatives died from Covid during the height of their outbreak, and only now is it safe for her to travel there to pay her respects.

When I hear horrific things like this, and I see what Kyrie is doing, it makes me even more infuriated. Here we have access to free vaccines, the top of the line ones at that, and we have this idiot going on IG in front of 100k people, many of whom are impressionable and unvaccinated, and he's spewing absolute nonsense.

Since he's not going to retire, I hope that there is some team out there really dumb enough to trade for this, deluded and narcissistic ass hole. Just get him out of here. I'm utterly, 100% disgusted by him.

Kyrie has nothing to do with those deaths. putting them on him is really kind of out there. Not only is he not in indiana (where there is no mandate) He is not preventing them from getting the vaccine, wearing masks, social distancing, or attending high risks areas/events. Kyrie himself is subject to super strict protocols and the odds that he infects someone, especially someone vaccinated, is extremely low.

Your equating him with some COVID/pandemic denyer who refuses to wear a mask/says masks dont work, tells others not to get the vaccine and is out coughing in peoples faces on the street. its insanely unfair .

I never said he was to blame for someone that died, I am saying that after learning about what happened to my co worker's family over in India (not Indiana), seeing him willingly become the face of the antivax movement here in the USA is pissing me off.

You can tell us all about how careful Kyrie is but from the Rolling Stone article describing his conduct on the reservation where he felt that mask rules did not apply to him, to last year where he was partying at indoor venue without a mask on, I am not certain Kyrie isn't above being reckless. Right now, he IS on par with COVID deniers because he is a public figure on a very public platform endorsing not getting vaccinated.

My man, please do not waste your time defending Kyrie to me. It's not worth it. I'm done with him. You know how I feel about this entire subject. I'm not going to see him in a better light after this.

[MrDollarBills]

This.

0 games of Kyrie > 82 games of Simmons.

I'm not gonna go that far but I'd definitely rather roll the dice with Kyrie possibly getting vaccine and/or mandate changes than have Simmons. Unless I know for certain that Kyrie can't play a single game for us anymore, I would not consider a trade for Simmons.

i meant 82 games this year. Kyrie said he isn't retiring and the nets seem willing to welcome him back once he is vaxxed or the mandate is lifted. I know the extension isnt going be offered (deadline is next week and he isnt back yet) which makes sense but i assume, like with harden, they would offer both long term deals.

I think we're done with him dude. Once KD and Harden signed off on isolating him from the team, that was the end.

[MrDollarBills]

Ben Simmons would be a terrible fit/downgrade here in place of Kyrie.

This.

0 games of Kyrie > 82 games of Simmons.

I'm not gonna go that far but I'd definitely rather roll the dice with Kyrie possibly getting vaccine and/or mandate changes than have Simmons. Unless I know for certain that Kyrie can't play a single game for us anymore, I would not consider a trade for Simmons.

Doc Rivers isn't going to put up with Kyrie's lunacy.

[MrDollarBills]

So when people are anti-mandate... Are they anti... Every mandate? Or do they just hypocritically pick and choose?

Like are we going to revolt against driver's licenses?

Given each mandate is drastically different, id say you get to pick and choose.

For instance, with the NYC COVID mandate, the things people seem to have issue with is:

-If a teacher/professor does not get the vaccine, not only can they not work/not be paid, they can lose tenure/pension. It is argued that is both overreaching and illegal to remove something that was earned/entitled prior to the mandate.

-No religious exemption (a judge ruled in favor of nurses that there needs to be an exemption and injuction is in place).

-The mandate is not equally applied and is inheritly discriminatory. (Jobs with extremely high female populaitons (teachers/nurses) fall under the mandate but those with high male representation are excluded (cops, fireman)). Visiting players do not need to be vaccinated to play in NYC sports venus but home teams do (this makes 0 sense if its actually about safety)

-currently NYC theaters, nurses, security guards, and teamsters among smaller individual and class groups have cases against the city.

What about the mandates that restrict what you can take on flights?

Airlines are private. private corporations can put any restrictions they want. Additionally, telling someone they cant carry a gun is different from telling someone they need to take a drug or eat/drink/ingest something.

My local burger joint said no shirt, no shoes, no service but they can't stop me with their mandates!!!!1one!

again, your burger joint is a private entity, they can do what they want. The government needs to act with the rgulations set for its land and citizens within the laws and the constitution. part of being a "free country" is that the government needs to abide by the freedoms set without the constitution or law. Mandates are now law, not signed by congress. they are strictly set forth by the governor and their legality can (and often is) challenged.

Private businesses (like your burger joint) dont have such restrictions. as long as they arent being discriminatory based on race/gender/religion they are typically ok.

You are 100% wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

In 1905, the SCOTUS ruled that the states have the "authority to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute".

Justice John Marshall Harlan delivered the decision for a 7–2 majority that the Massachusetts law did not violate the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court held that "in every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand" and that "[r]eal liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own [liberty], whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others."

It is legal precedent that individual freedoms do not trump public health and safety. This is why Cuomo and Murphy here in NY and NJ were legally able to shut down the state last spring, and why mask mandates in public places were enforced by law. It is why Joe Biden can demand that people in federal jobs need to wear masks when inside of federal office buildings. This is America, yes, and we do have freedoms, but it is not a free for all.

You do not have, and never will have, the freedom to endanger the health of other Americans. The sooner people like Kyrie realize this, the better we'll all be.

When the teamsters and unions get their cases thrown out, the judge will point to the above ruling and subsequent rulings by the SCOTUS that upholds vaccine mandates. There is nothing illegal about any of this. People need to stop being ass holes and do their part to keep each other safe.

Also, I recall seeing that NYC is working to close the loop hole allowing out of town players into public places unvaccinated. That definitively needs to happen.

[DarkXaero]

This.

0 games of Kyrie > 82 games of Simmons.

I'm not gonna go that far but I'd definitely rather roll the dice with Kyrie possibly getting vaccine and/or mandate changes than have Simmons. Unless I know for certain that Kyrie can't play a single game for us anymore, I would not consider a trade for Simmons.

Doc Rivers isn't going to put up with Kyrie's lunacy.

And what is Ben Simmons exactly? A guy with a notoriously **** attitude and approach to basketball, who shrinks on the biggest stage. At least Kyrie has put in the time into his craft and when he's on the court, he doesn't run from the responsibility. And while Kyrie is an idiot for what he's doing right now, Kyrie has done a lot of great things off the court. Both Kyrie and Simmons are high maintenance in different ways, but there's no question that Kyrie is more well liked among his peers and the better player between the two. Doc Rivers would gladly take a committed Kyrie over Simmons right now.

Oh and btw, Simmons isn't vaccinated either

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not gonna go that far but I'd definitely rather roll the dice with Kyrie possibly getting vaccine and/or mandate changes than have Simmons. Unless I know for certain that Kyrie can't play a single game for us anymore, I would not consider a trade for Simmons.

Doc Rivers isn't going to put up with Kyrie's lunacy.

And what is Ben Simmons exactly? A guy with a notoriously **** attitude and approach to basketball, who shrinks on the biggest stage. At least Kyrie has put in the time into his craft and when he's on the court, he doesn't run from the responsibility. And while Kyrie is an idiot for what he's doing right now, Kyrie has done a lot of great things off the court. Both Kyrie and Simmons are high maintenance in different ways, but there's no question that Kyrie is more well liked among his peers and the better player between the two. Doc Rivers would gladly take a committed Kyrie over Simmons right now.

Oh and btw, Simmons isn't vaccinated either

I'm not defending Simmons. I'm saying that Kyrie is most likely moving towards getting himself blackballed out of the league. This is not a good look for him or the NBA by having him become the face of the antivax movement.

[MrDollarBills]

And also, if nurses and teachers lose their jobs because they are antivaxxers that value conspiracy theory and facebook memes over actual science, they probably don't need to be in those jobs to begin with.

[DarkXaero]

Doc Rivers isn't going to put up with Kyrie's lunacy.

And what is Ben Simmons exactly? A guy with a notoriously **** attitude and approach to basketball, who shrinks on the biggest stage. At least Kyrie has put in the time into his craft and when he's on the court, he doesn't run from the responsibility. And while Kyrie is an idiot for what he's doing right now, Kyrie has done a lot of great things off the court. Both Kyrie and Simmons are high maintenance in different ways, but there's no question that Kyrie is more well liked among his peers and the better player between the two. Doc Rivers would gladly take a committed Kyrie over Simmons right now.

Oh and btw, Simmons isn't vaccinated either

I'm not defending Simmons. I'm saying that Kyrie is most likely moving towards getting himself blackballed out of the league. This is not a good look for him or the NBA by having him become the face of the antivax movement.

Kyrie himself is now on record saying that he's not anti-vaxx (I don't believe him) so he's trying to publicly distance himself anti-vax movement. That being said, his message of "personal choice" has a ton of support from his peers (many of whom are vaccinated), and others (anti vaxxers and such). I'm sure Adam Silver hates all this but I don't think its at a point where he ends up being black balled from the league. What Ben Simmons has done is probably more damaging to the league as you have a young NBA "star" requesting a trade out of a contender and not reporting to them in the 2nd year of his max extension (until now). That will have bigger consequences with the next CBA negotiations.

[MrDollarBills]

And what is Ben Simmons exactly? A guy with a notoriously **** attitude and approach to basketball, who shrinks on the biggest stage. At least Kyrie has put in the time into his craft and when he's on the court, he doesn't run from the responsibility. And while Kyrie is an idiot for what he's doing right now, Kyrie has done a lot of great things off the court. Both Kyrie and Simmons are high maintenance in different ways, but there's no question that Kyrie is more well liked among his peers and the better player between the two. Doc Rivers would gladly take a committed Kyrie over Simmons right now.

Oh and btw, Simmons isn't vaccinated either

I'm not defending Simmons. I'm saying that Kyrie is most likely moving towards getting himself blackballed out of the league. This is not a good look for him or the NBA by having him become the face of the antivax movement.

Kyrie himself is now on record saying that he's not anti-vaxx (I don't believe him) so he's trying to publicly distance himself anti-vax movement. That being said, his message of "personal choice" has a ton of support from his peers (many of whom are vaccinated), and others (anti vaxxers and such). I'm sure Adam Silver hates all this but I don't think its at a point where he ends up being black balled from the league. What Ben Simmons has done is probably more damaging to the league as you have a young NBA "star" requesting a trade out of a contender and not reporting to them in the 2nd year of his max extension (until now). That will have bigger consequences with the next CBA negotiations.

Ben Simmons having a dispute with his team and doing a mini hold out is a drop in the bucket compared to the chaos Kyrie is causing. What Kyrie is using his platform for is going way beyond basketball. No one will care in a week that Simmons missed training camp.

And whether he likes it or not, he is being embraced by antivaxxers for his position. He wants to have it both ways, but he won't.

[DarkXaero]

I'm not defending Simmons. I'm saying that Kyrie is most likely moving towards getting himself blackballed out of the league. This is not a good look for him or the NBA by having him become the face of the antivax movement.

Kyrie himself is now on record saying that he's not anti-vaxx (I don't believe him) so he's trying to publicly distance himself anti-vax movement. That being said, his message of "personal choice" has a ton of support from his peers (many of whom are vaccinated), and others (anti vaxxers and such). I'm sure Adam Silver hates all this but I don't think its at a point where he ends up being black balled from the league. What Ben Simmons has done is probably more damaging to the league as you have a young NBA "star" requesting a trade out of a contender and not reporting to them in the 2nd year of his max extension (until now). That will have bigger consequences with the next CBA negotiations.

Ben Simmons having a dispute with his team and doing a mini hold out is a drop in the bucket compared to the chaos Kyrie is causing. What Kyrie is using his platform for is going way beyond basketball. No one will care in a week that Simmons missed training camp.

And whether he likes it or not, he is being embraced by antivaxxers for his position. He wants to have it both ways, but he won't.

Disagree, read this story:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2949384-sources-kyrie-irving-ben-simmons-sagas-could-lead-to-nba-rule-changes

Bulk of the article talks about issues relating to Ben Simmons scenario and what kind of effect it can have in next CBA talks.

[Prokorov]

I think the extension talk is premature considering Kyrie is essentially threatening to sit out the year. We're not going to waste a year waiting on him. He'll get traded sooner than later if he keeps it up. The championship window is 100% now. If he gets vaccinated and comes back - who knows. Marks was pretty pissed during his press conference. Tsai makes the final call here and if he's done with Kyrie, that extension won't be back on the table. Considering his shenanigans with an organization that's given him everything he could possibly ask for - I wouldn't blame Tsai at all.

At this point, I'd 100% take Kyrie for Simmons. I'd even throw in picks. Simmons fits here beautifully - especially considering we have 2 floor spacing 5s on the roster along with 4 great to elite shooters. He'd obviously be a huge upgrade to our defense.

It's not worth talking about though because Philly isn't going from the 2nd biggest headache in the league to the biggest headache by far. Kyrie burning a bridge with Brooklyn would demolish his trade value. We've given him everything he could possibly ask for in a team. Top to bottom in every way imaginable. He's responded by ghosting the team multiple times and leaving his teammates out to dry.

I dont think there is more of a worse fit here then simmons. he would kill our chances they way he killed philly. it not hyperbole when i say id rather get nothing. we are probably better off just letting kyrie come off and not resigning him... huge tax relief (allows us not to make tough decisions down the road on KD/Harden) then adding ismmons at a big number while he kills us in the playoffs

[pretender_2002]

Kyrie for Kristaps Porzingis... Kyrie can go play in Texas (different conference) where they are the least likely to infringe on his personal freedoms and we get back a legit two way star who is still young. We add defense for times we go up against Giannis, Embiid, AD, etc. Also, we could legit run all of Harden, KD and KP to close out games which could be deadly imo... KP is everything I dream Claxton would be and then some!

[Prokorov]

I never said he was to blame for someone that died, I am saying that after learning about what happened to my co worker's family over in India (not Indiana), seeing him willingly become the face of the antivax movement here in the USA is pissing me off.

Him being the face of the Anti-Vax movement is 100% not on him... especially when he said, from his own mouth, in no uncertain terms he is not anti-vax, but anti mandate. He has said nothing anti-vax, he HAS said he isnt anti-vax. kill the media for making him the face if thats your issue.

You can tell us all about how careful Kyrie is but from the Rolling Stone article describing his conduct on the reservation where he felt that mask rules did not apply to him, to last year where he was partying at indoor venue without a mask on, I am not certain Kyrie isn't above being reckless. Right now, he IS on par with COVID deniers because he is a public figure on a very public platform endorsing not getting vaccinated.

I put 0 stock in an article that quotes his aunt's account. ill take what i hear from his mouth + knowing that he straight up HAS to be doing those safety things to have been allowed in the building. He sat 6 days for contract tracing 2 weeks ago. we see photos of him masked in practice, and he is required 2 tests daily vaccine or not.

Was he unmasked at a party 9 months ago? sure. I'm not going to kill him or anyone for that unless its a pattern and they are vocal about being anti-mask.

My man, please do not waste your time defending Kyrie to me. It's not worth it. I'm done with him. You know how I feel about this entire subject. I'm not going to see him in a better light after this.

You can be done with him all you want, but if your going to put deaths on him im going to respond to that.

[Prokorov]

I'm not gonna go that far but I'd definitely rather roll the dice with Kyrie possibly getting vaccine and/or mandate changes than have Simmons. Unless I know for certain that Kyrie can't play a single game for us anymore, I would not consider a trade for Simmons.

i meant 82 games this year. Kyrie said he isn't retiring and the nets seem willing to welcome him back once he is vaxxed or the mandate is lifted. I know the extension isnt going be offered (deadline is next week and he isnt back yet) which makes sense but i assume, like with harden, they would offer both long term deals.

I think we're done with him dude. Once KD and Harden signed off on isolating him from the team, that was the end.

Harden said clearly he had 0 to do with the decision.

It seems like Kevin Durant and James Harden have a lot of say in what goes down in Brooklyn, but when it came to the decision to not have Kyrie Irving around the Nets until he's a full-time player, it was all on upper brass.

Harden told reporters on Wednesday that he had "no say" in the decision, adding that he can only "state [his] opinion."

“That’s the front office. We had conversations, as far as a collective unit, and the ultimate decision that the front office made was that if Ky wasn’t gonna be here full-time, then it’s best for him not to be on the team part-time. I have no say so in that, and I can only state my opinion. We gotta continue to move forward. Obviously we would love to have Kyrie here.”

[Prokorov]

So when people are anti-mandate... Are they anti... Every mandate? Or do they just hypocritically pick and choose?

Like are we going to revolt against driver's licenses?

Given each mandate is drastically different, id say you get to pick and choose.

For instance, with the NYC COVID mandate, the things people seem to have issue with is:

-If a teacher/professor does not get the vaccine, not only can they not work/not be paid, they can lose tenure/pension. It is argued that is both overreaching and illegal to remove something that was earned/entitled prior to the mandate.

-No religious exemption (a judge ruled in favor of nurses that there needs to be an exemption and injuction is in place).

-The mandate is not equally applied and is inheritly discriminatory. (Jobs with extremely high female populaitons (teachers/nurses) fall under the mandate but those with high male representation are excluded (cops, fireman)). Visiting players do not need to be vaccinated to play in NYC sports venus but home teams do (this makes 0 sense if its actually about safety)

-currently NYC theaters, nurses, security guards, and teamsters among smaller individual and class groups have cases against the city.

What about the mandates that restrict what you can take on flights?

Airlines are private. private corporations can put any restrictions they want. Additionally, telling someone they cant carry a gun is different from telling someone they need to take a drug or eat/drink/ingest something.

My local burger joint said no shirt, no shoes, no service but they can't stop me with their mandates!!!!1one!

again, your burger joint is a private entity, they can do what they want. The government needs to act with the rgulations set for its land and citizens within the laws and the constitution. part of being a "free country" is that the government needs to abide by the freedoms set without the constitution or law. Mandates are now law, not signed by congress. they are strictly set forth by the governor and their legality can (and often is) challenged.

Private businesses (like your burger joint) dont have such restrictions. as long as they arent being discriminatory based on race/gender/religion they are typically ok.

You are 100% wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts

In 1905, the SCOTUS ruled that the states have the "authority to enforce compulsory vaccination laws. The Court's decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute".

Justice John Marshall Harlan delivered the decision for a 7–2 majority that the Massachusetts law did not violate the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court held that "in every well ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand" and that "[r]eal liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own [liberty], whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others."

It is legal precedent that individual freedoms do not trump public health and safety. This is why Cuomo and Murphy here in NY and NJ were legally able to shut down the state last spring, and why mask mandates in public places were enforced by law. It is why Joe Biden can demand that people in federal jobs need to wear masks when inside of federal office buildings. This is America, yes, and we do have freedoms, but it is not a free for all.

You do not have, and never will have, the freedom to endanger the health of other Americans. The sooner people like Kyrie realize this, the better we'll all be.

When the teamsters and unions get their cases thrown out, the judge will point to the above ruling and subsequent rulings by the SCOTUS that upholds vaccine mandates. There is nothing illegal about any of this. People need to stop being ass holes and do their part to keep each other safe.

Also, I recall seeing that NYC is working to close the loop hole allowing out of town players into public places unvaccinated. That definitively needs to happen.

I'm not wrong... because i stated none of what you reference.

1) Mandate is not law. they are 2 very different things
2) Mandates can remove certain freedoms, but they do not have unilateral power to govern, and they still need to be constitutional and be inline with discrimination laws

For instance (extreme example for clarity) you cant mandate that all chinese people get vaccinated and not apply it to veryone. you cant mandate everyone who is not vacicnated has to pay fines or you garnish their savings accounts.

The mandate is in align in alot of spots. it is complete garbage in others.

taking peoples tenure, pensions, and it not being applied to everyone is kind of BS. it should be all public buildings, not just the ones you arent scared of (i.e. police/fire)

it should apply to everyone, not just NY athletes. if it is about safety, why can Beal play at Barclays but not kyrie?

Im not saying all mandates are garbage or even that one isnt needed. but the NYC one stinks.

[Prokorov]

Doc Rivers isn't going to put up with Kyrie's lunacy.

And what is Ben Simmons exactly? A guy with a notoriously **** attitude and approach to basketball, who shrinks on the biggest stage. At least Kyrie has put in the time into his craft and when he's on the court, he doesn't run from the responsibility. And while Kyrie is an idiot for what he's doing right now, Kyrie has done a lot of great things off the court. Both Kyrie and Simmons are high maintenance in different ways, but there's no question that Kyrie is more well liked among his peers and the better player between the two. Doc Rivers would gladly take a committed Kyrie over Simmons right now.

Oh and btw, Simmons isn't vaccinated either

I'm not defending Simmons. I'm saying that Kyrie is most likely moving towards getting himself blackballed out of the league. This is not a good look for him or the NBA by having him become the face of the antivax movement.

thats on the media. there is not alot more someone can do besides state multiple times live that he is not anti-vaxx to let people know he isnt anti-vaxx.

[Prokorov]

And also, if nurses and teachers lose their jobs because they are antivaxxers that value conspiracy theory and facebook memes over actual science, they probably don't need to be in those jobs to begin with.

losing their job? sure.

But if im a female nurse and i lose my job cause im not Vaccinated, but the mail officer who works security doesnt lose his and is allowed in the same building, that is BS>

If im a nurse and i lose my job, thats one thing. if i lose my pension, my tenure which i accumulated for years prior to the pandemic, thats bull.

If im a nurse, and my religion states im not to be vaccinated, and you force me to go against my religion to keep my job, with no exemption process, that is bs.

People are not just fighting about keeping their jobs. hell most can go over the hudson and work. Many are being stripped of alot more, and many have issue with the law not being applied/enforced equally across gender and race.

[Prokorov]

I'm not defending Simmons. I'm saying that Kyrie is most likely moving towards getting himself blackballed out of the league. This is not a good look for him or the NBA by having him become the face of the antivax movement.

Kyrie himself is now on record saying that he's not anti-vaxx (I don't believe him) so he's trying to publicly distance himself anti-vax movement. That being said, his message of "personal choice" has a ton of support from his peers (many of whom are vaccinated), and others (anti vaxxers and such). I'm sure Adam Silver hates all this but I don't think its at a point where he ends up being black balled from the league. What Ben Simmons has done is probably more damaging to the league as you have a young NBA "star" requesting a trade out of a contender and not reporting to them in the 2nd year of his max extension (until now). That will have bigger consequences with the next CBA negotiations.

Ben Simmons having a dispute with his team and doing a mini hold out is a drop in the bucket compared to the chaos Kyrie is causing. What Kyrie is using his platform for is going way beyond basketball. No one will care in a week that Simmons missed training camp.

And whether he likes it or not, he is being embraced by antivaxxers for his position. He wants to have it both ways, but he won't.

LEt me get this straight....

Simmons refuse to join his team, even though he is allowed to. trashes his teammates, says he will never play their again and his teammates hate him.

Kyrie cant join the team by law, expresses he wants to play, never dissed a teammate, and his teammates support him.

Yet somehow Kyrie caused more Chaos?