2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Slim Charless]

Yes, you have repeated this a lot that they will trade Bridges for a rookie or draft pick. I'll still be surprised if that happens.

I said lotto pick. Top 5-8 most like. There's a difference. Sarver may be a cheap, arrogant **** but he has good basketball people around who won't let him do something that reckless.

If I had to guess they ship him off to some Detroit or some other perennial loser (ironically which is what we were till we drafted DA and Mikal which allowed us to get CP3 ).

That crappy team signs Mikal to a max deal and we select some dude who may or may not be good. I'd guess in this scenario we also resign Cam so he takes Mikal's spot at the 3.

I don't think that's possible anymore unless you mean this season to a team that you expect to have a pick, but a team in the lotto wouldn't do it unprotected. Next summer since he's a RFA he can't be traded unless it's a S&T and that would be after the draft. But a team would have to absorb a lot of salary or ship quite a bit out to us.

I think they like Bridges and will keep him.

I'm curious as to what has transpired over the last month or so makes you think that Sarver will pony up for both Bridges and Deandre while additionally paying CP3 and Booker?

[Saberestar]

Damn. TMZ already in the mix. This makes me feel better. Making national news.. No one is gonna side with Sarver....he's hated by all but a few people. Hopefully this forces him to act.

TMZ is owned by FauxNews now so I dunno how to take this......

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

glad they met
hopefully SArver realizes that even though the Max may seem like a lot - how do you replace him under the cap

get it done

This team is going to be GOOD!

There are a few days until Oct 18th, but after that meeting between them Ayton said to reporters that he was disappointed, so I think an agreement at this point it is a LONG shot.

For what Sarver has said it seems that he thinks that is easier to agree on a deal next year.

[BobbieL]

TMZ is owned by FauxNews now so I dunno how to take this......

Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

glad they met
hopefully SArver realizes that even though the Max may seem like a lot - how do you replace him under the cap

get it done

This team is going to be GOOD!

There are a few days until Oct 18th, but after that meeting between them Ayton said to reporters that he was disappointed, so I think an agreement at this point it is a LONG shot.

For what Sarver has said it seems that he thinks that is easier to agree on a deal next year.

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

[bwgood77]

I said lotto pick. Top 5-8 most like. There's a difference. Sarver may be a cheap, arrogant **** but he has good basketball people around who won't let him do something that reckless.

If I had to guess they ship him off to some Detroit or some other perennial loser (ironically which is what we were till we drafted DA and Mikal which allowed us to get CP3 ).

That crappy team signs Mikal to a max deal and we select some dude who may or may not be good. I'd guess in this scenario we also resign Cam so he takes Mikal's spot at the 3.

I don't think that's possible anymore unless you mean this season to a team that you expect to have a pick, but a team in the lotto wouldn't do it unprotected. Next summer since he's a RFA he can't be traded unless it's a S&T and that would be after the draft. But a team would have to absorb a lot of salary or ship quite a bit out to us.

I think they like Bridges and will keep him.

I'm curious as to what has transpired over the last month or so makes you think that Sarver will pony up for both Bridges and Deandre while additionally paying CP3 and Booker?

Well I always thought they'd get paid...and as I have said on multiple occasions, there is likely only one year of overlap fairly deep into the tax (next year before Crowder, Saric and most likely Paul come off).

We always take a long time to negotiate...and haven't given too many extensions outside of Booker and Warren.

I think Sarver enjoys being a contender, moreso this time around after what he has endured the last decade plus.

These guys too important. There is a very good reason Bridges' value is 2.5 times the value of someone like Cam on 538, since there wasn't one thing Cam was better at this past season, and is same age and more injury prone.

Of course I think we are all very happy with Cam after many not being happy with the pick.

[darealjuice]

I don't see maxing Ayton being analogous to maxing Shaq at all. Shaq was flat out dominant on both sides of the floor and was averaging 27/12/2.5/3 as the clear best player on a strong playoff team. Paying him was the definition of a no brainer.

I think there were legitimate questions about what we had in Ayton throughout this season. There was clamoring for Dario to start over him in January/February with Dario's hot start and Ayton's continued inconsistency, he took a step back as a scorer despite being surrounded by shooters with one of the best pick and roll point guards ever, and he didn't finish the regular season on a strong note. We've heard all about CP3 getting on Ayton throughout the season and could see it spill on the court at times. No denying he had a strong playoff run, I can understand wanting to see him take a step forward and do it for a full season though. No idea whether that's the reason for the "delay" or not, just my opinion.

MPJ getting a max contract definitely muddied the waters, but you also can't justify decisions by pointing at another organization's potentially bad decision. I understand the optics and emotional side to this, but we also need to be absolutely convinced he can be our 2nd best player on a contending team post-CP3 to give him $35M a year or we're at serious risk of treadmilling.

[bwgood77]

glad they met
hopefully SArver realizes that even though the Max may seem like a lot - how do you replace him under the cap

get it done

This team is going to be GOOD!

There are a few days until Oct 18th, but after that meeting between them Ayton said to reporters that he was disappointed, so I think an agreement at this point it is a LONG shot.

For what Sarver has said it seems that he thinks that is easier to agree on a deal next year.

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

There have only been a few max extensions, at least 3 are no brainers and the other is a guy who has ELITE scoring efficiency and somewhat of a similar early game to KD.

I don't think anyone thought he was worth a max before the playoffs, except I guess I'mNotMcDISwear. And I defended him more than anyone and thought he was valuable. Many wanted him traded.

I think Sarver reads the forum and knows what people think of his inconsistencies and of course those who don't think he has that much value (bigfoot, etc). A lot of complaining outside of him too (Mjee, jdiddy, Frank, etc).

[bigfoot]

I don't see maxing Ayton being analogous to maxing Shaq at all. Shaq was flat out dominant on both sides of the floor and was averaging 27/12/2.5/3 as the clear best player on a strong playoff team. Paying him was the definition of a no brainer.

I think there were legitimate questions about what we had in Ayton throughout this season. There was clamoring for Dario to start over him in January/February with Dario's hot start and Ayton's continued inconsistency, he took a step back as a scorer despite being surrounded by shooters with one of the best pick and roll point guards ever, and he didn't finish the regular season on a strong note. We've heard all about CP3 getting on Ayton throughout the season and could see it spill on the court at times. No denying had a strong playoff run, I can understand wanting to see him take a step forward and do it for a full season though. No idea whether that's the reason for the "delay" or not, just my opinion.

MPJ getting a max contract definitely muddied the waters, but you also can't justify decisions by pointing at another organization's potentially bad decision. I understand the optics and emotional side to this, but we also need to be absolutely convinced he can be our 2nd best player on a contending team post-CP3 to give him $35M a year or we're at serious risk of treadmilling.

100% spot on. There are a lot of folks sitting on the fence about maxing Ayton. Let him convince us this season. Offer him a max next summer if he shows the consistency we demand. He'd be a fool to take the QO if given a max by the Suns. Even if the Suns let his agent test the waters next summer they can still match any RFA offers. Remember, he didn't get the Sheandrea moniker for nothing.

[bwgood77]

I don't see maxing Ayton being analogous to maxing Shaq at all. Shaq was flat out dominant on both sides of the floor and was averaging 27/12/2.5/3 as the clear best player on a strong playoff team. Paying him was the definition of a no brainer.

I think there were legitimate questions about what we had in Ayton throughout this season. There was clamoring for Dario to start over him in January/February with Dario's hot start and Ayton's continued inconsistency, he took a step back as a scorer despite being surrounded by shooters with one of the best pick and roll point guards ever, and he didn't finish the regular season on a strong note. We've heard all about CP3 getting on Ayton throughout the season and could see it spill on the court at times. No denying had a strong playoff run, I can understand wanting to see him take a step forward and do it for a full season though. No idea whether that's the reason for the "delay" or not, just my opinion.

MPJ getting a max contract definitely muddied the waters, but you also can't justify decisions by pointing at another organization's potentially bad decision. I understand the optics and emotional side to this, but we also need to be absolutely convinced he can be our 2nd best player on a contending team post-CP3 to give him $35M a year or we're at serious risk of treadmilling.

100% spot on. There are a lot of folks sitting on the fence about maxing Ayton. Let him convince us this season. Offer him a max next summer if he shows the consistency we demand. He'd be a fool to take the QO if given a max by the Suns. Even if the Suns let his agent test the waters next summer they can still match any RFA offers. Remember, he didn't get the Sheandrea moniker for nothing.

But was is he worth? Is he worth losing? Would you match a max and lose a year? They have potentially some to lose by waiting and discontent going into season. Is it worth risk? How much money do you care about Sarver saving?

I definitely don't think waiting on Ayton is a bad thing if you give him a max next summer, but why mess with a finals team at all? Who really cares if Sarver saves a few million a year when we will be working over the cap and only have MLE to use for FAs?

[Puff]

I don't see maxing Ayton being analogous to maxing Shaq at all. Shaq was flat out dominant on both sides of the floor and was averaging 27/12/2.5/3 as the clear best player on a strong playoff team. Paying him was the definition of a no brainer.

I think there were legitimate questions about what we had in Ayton throughout this season. There was clamoring for Dario to start over him in January/February with Dario's hot start and Ayton's continued inconsistency, he took a step back as a scorer despite being surrounded by shooters with one of the best pick and roll point guards ever, and he didn't finish the regular season on a strong note. We've heard all about CP3 getting on Ayton throughout the season and could see it spill on the court at times. No denying had a strong playoff run, I can understand wanting to see him take a step forward and do it for a full season though. No idea whether that's the reason for the "delay" or not, just my opinion.

MPJ getting a max contract definitely muddied the waters, but you also can't justify decisions by pointing at another organization's potentially bad decision. I understand the optics and emotional side to this, but we also need to be absolutely convinced he can be our 2nd best player on a contending team post-CP3 to give him $35M a year or we're at serious risk of treadmilling.

100% spot on. There are a lot of folks sitting on the fence about maxing Ayton. Let him convince us this season. Offer him a max next summer if he shows the consistency we demand. He'd be a fool to take the QO if given a max by the Suns. Even if the Suns let his agent test the waters next summer they can still match any RFA offers. Remember, he didn't get the Sheandrea moniker for nothing.

I think we should all just wait and see what happens by the 18th. None of us know what Ayton's agent is asking for or what the Suns are offering. Maybe Ayton's agent is demanding that he get the same contract as Doncic and Tre got. After all they did not make it to the finals and were drafted after him. Or are the Suns really low balling him. Quite frankly we do not know any of this. Could the agent be turning down the $173 Million offer the Suns have on the table?

From what little action I have see in pre season, Mcgee seems to be the better fit with this team. Maybe McGee can teach him how to go to the hole and dunk rather than shooting those sissy little jumpers Ayton loves to shoot. CP3 will not be here forever to spoon feed this guy for dunks so that his shooting percentage is off the charts. Yeah I need more convincing. Maybe the Suns don't and have a legit offer on the table but he wants more. We will soon find out.

[Revived]

glad they met
hopefully SArver realizes that even though the Max may seem like a lot - how do you replace him under the cap

get it done

This team is going to be GOOD!

There are a few days until Oct 18th, but after that meeting between them Ayton said to reporters that he was disappointed, so I think an agreement at this point it is a LONG shot.

For what Sarver has said it seems that he thinks that is easier to agree on a deal next year.

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

You think there’s a possibility that Ayton would turn down a 4 yr max next summer and play for the QO?

I don’t think he would especially after guys like Noel missing out on a major pay day by doing that.

Guys like Noel, Cousins and IT are prime examples of why they have to take the $$ unless it’s substantially less than market value.

[King4Day]

The only way DA considers the QO is if we don't offer him max. Even then, if another team offers him 4 @ 130, he'll sign it and we'll match. He's not turning down generational financial security for life out of spite.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The only way DA considers the QO is if we don't offer him max. Even then, if another team offers him 4 @ 130, he'll sign it and we'll match. He's not turning down generational financial security for life out of spite.

I find it highly unlikely that Ayton isn't effectively already secured generational financial security. He takes the QO and pushes his net worth to... what, $40 mil? He doesn't have any real injury history to speak of, so assuming he stays healthy he'll get the max from someone else the following year (albeit the "lesser" max). If past is prologue we can expect the FO would at least be open to signing and trading him - especially if the alternative is to be left holding absolutely zilch.

I get that we have leverage, but so do all teams heading into RFA, and others get the max. Ayton's right - it is about respect. I just don't get where Sarver's coming from.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

From what little action I have see in pre season, Mcgee seems to be the better fit with this team. Maybe McGee can teach him how to go to the hole and dunk rather than shooting those sissy little jumpers Ayton loves to shoot. CP3 will not be here forever to spoon feed this guy for dunks so that his shooting percentage is off the charts. Yeah I need more convincing. Maybe the Suns don't and have a legit offer on the table but he wants more. We will soon find out.

FAFO I guess.

[Saberestar]

There are a few days until Oct 18th, but after that meeting between them Ayton said to reporters that he was disappointed, so I think an agreement at this point it is a LONG shot.

For what Sarver has said it seems that he thinks that is easier to agree on a deal next year.

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

You think there’s a possibility that Ayton would turn down a 4 yr max next summer and play for the QO?

I don’t think he would especially after guys like Noel missing out on a major pay day by doing that.

Guys like Noel, Cousins and IT are prime examples of why they have to take the $$ unless it’s substantially less than market value.

Next summer Ayton can perfectly say that he doesn't want to play for the Suns anymore because he hasn't been respected by Sarver or the organization. He would sign an offer sheet for the max with another team and he would ask the Suns to not match it because he really wants out. James Jones will never sign a player who doesn't want to play for us and Sarver would be OK because he would save some money. Easy.

I am not saying that I think this is gonna happen, but I don't think it would be something rare.

Different case, but I remember when people here were saying "Markieff has a four year contract, he will play for us and we will trade him whenever we want..." Good players decide always where they play and they can get there at any moment. Look at Harden last year, Blake Griffin, now Simmons...

[GetYourPHX]

shooting those sissy little jumpers Ayton loves to shoot.

You heard it here first guys, REAL MEN DON'T SHOOT THE J!

[lilfishi22]

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

You think there’s a possibility that Ayton would turn down a 4 yr max next summer and play for the QO?

I don’t think he would especially after guys like Noel missing out on a major pay day by doing that.

Guys like Noel, Cousins and IT are prime examples of why they have to take the $$ unless it’s substantially less than market value.

Next summer Ayton can perfectly say that he doesn't want to play for the Suns anymore because he hasn't been respected by Sarver or the organization. He would sign an offer sheet for the max with another team and he would ask the Suns to not match it because he really wants out. James Jones will never sign a player who doesn't want to play for us and Sarver would be OK because he would save some money. Easy.

I am not saying that I think this is gonna happen, but I don't think it would be something rare.

Different case, but I remember when people here were saying "Markieff has a four year contract, he will play for us and we will trade him whenever we want..." Good players decide always where they play and they can get there at any moment. Look at Harden last year, Blake Griffin, now Simmons...

Yeah I mentioned this as something of a worse case scenario in a previous post. YOu're right that Jones might not want to sign someone who doesn't want to play but who knows, out of spite Sarver might match it because he now "sees the light" of losing Ayton. BUt then you get a disgruntled Ayton who was all ready to move on to a different team but now contracted to play for Suns/Sarver. It's all just negative juju to have around a focused team.

I don't necessarily think we'll get to that point and these are different situations but we've seen other players, take less money to go to another team where they feel like they would be better utilised and marketed better. Players can be convinced that there are "better" situations for them. Anthony Davis had secured the bag already but he gave up $30m (supermax) from the Pels to go to another team. I might have remembered it incorrectly but Jerami Grant gave up a bit of money (and opportunity to play on a contender) to be his own man on a crap team.

Again, different situations since the Suns having matching rights but we're really putting that seed of doubt in Ayton's mind that could grow into him preferring to take slightly less money to play elsewhere and be "the man".

[Slim Charless]

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

You think there’s a possibility that Ayton would turn down a 4 yr max next summer and play for the QO?

I don’t think he would especially after guys like Noel missing out on a major pay day by doing that.

Guys like Noel, Cousins and IT are prime examples of why they have to take the $$ unless it’s substantially less than market value.

Next summer Ayton can perfectly say that he doesn't want to play for the Suns anymore because he hasn't been respected by Sarver or the organization. He would sign an offer sheet for the max with another team and he would ask the Suns to not match it because he really wants out. James Jones will never sign a player who doesn't want to play for us and Sarver would be OK because he would save some money. Easy.

I am not saying that I think this is gonna happen, but I don't think it would be something rare.

Different case, but I remember when people here were saying "Markieff has a four year contract, he will play for us and we will trade him whenever we want..." Good players decide always where they play and they can get there at any moment. Look at Harden last year, Blake Griffin, now Simmons...

Some of you guys are missing out about my main point of him signing the QO. If he goes to a NYC then he can easily make that $$$$ back via endorsements. I mean sure he'll lose 1 yr off the 5yr deal we can give him. But on the flip side of that he can walk into Madison Square Garden as the biggest star since prime Melo and their best big man since Patrick Ewing-over 30yrs ago. You don't think that's worth some change?

Plus, Worldwide Wes and other equally shadey and connected people work for that Knicks organization now. They can easily do some underhanded stuff on the backend all season to get DA over.

This is a legitimate problem. Certain posters are ignoring it but we all should been concerned if he isn't signed by Tuesday.

[lilfishi22]

I don't see maxing Ayton being analogous to maxing Shaq at all. Shaq was flat out dominant on both sides of the floor and was averaging 27/12/2.5/3 as the clear best player on a strong playoff team. Paying him was the definition of a no brainer.

I think there were legitimate questions about what we had in Ayton throughout this season. There was clamoring for Dario to start over him in January/February with Dario's hot start and Ayton's continued inconsistency, he took a step back as a scorer despite being surrounded by shooters with one of the best pick and roll point guards ever, and he didn't finish the regular season on a strong note. We've heard all about CP3 getting on Ayton throughout the season and could see it spill on the court at times. No denying he had a strong playoff run, I can understand wanting to see him take a step forward and do it for a full season though. No idea whether that's the reason for the "delay" or not, just my opinion.

MPJ getting a max contract definitely muddied the waters, but you also can't justify decisions by pointing at another organization's potentially bad decision. I understand the optics and emotional side to this, but we also need to be absolutely convinced he can be our 2nd best player on a contending team post-CP3 to give him $35M a year or we're at serious risk of treadmilling.

You're 100% right that before the playoffs, it wasn't certain that max was a done deal. But I don't think we're justifying a max deal for Ayton solely on what others have done. It's the playoffs where I believe players should earn their contracts, not just regular season stats.

As little issue as I had with Booker's extension like 7 days into free agency, he had not proven anything other than that he can get buckets on a team that had a combined record of 87-328 during his rookie contract. Maybe I'll get some flack for this but Tatum's 19 playoff games averaging 18.5ppg in his rookie season is a hell of a lot more valuable and deserving of a big contract than Booker putting up 25 a game on a rat team. Ayton not only performed in the playoffs, he stepped up in the playoffs.

[bwgood77]

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

You think there’s a possibility that Ayton would turn down a 4 yr max next summer and play for the QO?

I don’t think he would especially after guys like Noel missing out on a major pay day by doing that.

Guys like Noel, Cousins and IT are prime examples of why they have to take the $$ unless it’s substantially less than market value.

Next summer Ayton can perfectly say that he doesn't want to play for the Suns anymore because he hasn't been respected by Sarver or the organization. He would sign an offer sheet for the max with another team and he would ask the Suns to not match it because he really wants out. James Jones will never sign a player who doesn't want to play for us and Sarver would be OK because he would save some money. Easy.

I am not saying that I think this is gonna happen, but I don't think it would be something rare.

Different case, but I remember when people here were saying "Markieff has a four year contract, he will play for us and we will trade him whenever we want..." Good players decide always where they play and they can get there at any moment. Look at Harden last year, Blake Griffin, now Simmons...

Ayton could do that but don't think he would. Not with family here, teammates, Monty, etc.

However, in the case he did, I think we would match regardless of what Jones usually does and either he gets over it or we trade him after a year for a nice package if he still wants out. They certainly wouldn't let him walk out for nothing.

[bwgood77]

You think there’s a possibility that Ayton would turn down a 4 yr max next summer and play for the QO?

I don’t think he would especially after guys like Noel missing out on a major pay day by doing that.

Guys like Noel, Cousins and IT are prime examples of why they have to take the $$ unless it’s substantially less than market value.

Next summer Ayton can perfectly say that he doesn't want to play for the Suns anymore because he hasn't been respected by Sarver or the organization. He would sign an offer sheet for the max with another team and he would ask the Suns to not match it because he really wants out. James Jones will never sign a player who doesn't want to play for us and Sarver would be OK because he would save some money. Easy.

I am not saying that I think this is gonna happen, but I don't think it would be something rare.

Different case, but I remember when people here were saying "Markieff has a four year contract, he will play for us and we will trade him whenever we want..." Good players decide always where they play and they can get there at any moment. Look at Harden last year, Blake Griffin, now Simmons...

Some of you guys are missing out about my main point of him signing the QO. If he goes to a NYC then he can easily make that $$$$ back via endorsements. I mean sure he'll lose 1 yr off the 5yr deal we can give him. But on the flip side of that he can walk into Madison Square Garden as the biggest star since prime Melo and their best big man since Patrick Ewing-over 30yrs ago. You don't think that's worth some change?

Plus, Worldwide Wes and other equally shadey and connected people work for that Knicks organization now. They can easily do some underhanded stuff on the backend all season to get DA over.

This is a legitimate problem. Certain posters are ignoring it but we all should been concerned if he isn't signed by Tuesday.

He won't take the QO. Knicks could sign him maybe but only if they let Randle go which likely wouldn't be popular. He's viewed as better than Ayton right now.