Preseason Game 4: Boston Celtics 2-0 @ Orlando Magic 0-3 7PM EST.

[basketballRob]

Any feelings as to when do you think Isaac is back to playing, practising fully?

I've tried to research and there seems to be very little clarity on it.

Probably any day. He said if it was up to him he would play now. Officially he's listed as questionable for the start of the season, which is better than doubtful.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

He isn't practising fully, right?

Feels strange to have such a hard time figuring out at what stage he is at and what's the timetable for the return.

Ever since he tore his ACL, management has been overly cautious with every injury.

He could very well be ready for contact now, but they'll just give it more time to be safe. No reason to rush him since we aren't trying to make the playoffs this season.

Edit: Isaac has been upgraded to game time decision.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/teams/ORL/orlando-magic/injuries/

[drsd]

my god...franz is in preseason of his first year in a rebuilding/development situation and people are still impatient? do people not understand that things take time? This is the ground floor, it's like complaining about how the building looks when it hasn't even started being built yet

And-1

Wagner night be great, he might be a draft bust, and probably he will be a decent but not spectacular bench player. But in October of his rookie year, even if he was shooting 100% with his shot, we cannot judge what he can be in this league. The first assessment is about 20 games in to his rookie campaign.

..

[ARandomStranger]

I think Franz will be fine. Kid is a much better shooter than he has shown so far and he is a decent enough slasher that he should get some decent buckets in the future. He doesn't force plays and he passes well for his position. He is willing to take threes and though it has been inconsistent that could easily be placed on adjusting to increased arm strength than lack of skill. He knows how to shoot, but he seems to shoot too hard a lot, and I think in time he will find his rhythm. Defensively I'm also not concerned. He has had decent defensive performances throughout preseason and I doubt that will change in the regular season.

If he had hit those 2 threes he missed tonight, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now, and that is a fact.

Just curious, what makes you say Franz is a much better shooter than he has shown? Just being real despite being a magic fan, in the lead up to the draft I saw him as a mediocre shooter (but a developing one) with questionable mechanics. But to his credit, a good free throw shooter. Did he shoot well internationally or at some other level of play?

I do agree though, he does seem to be a good passer and knows where to be off the ball. Unfortunately on a 20 win team those traits will go unnoticed

Let me be absolutely real here. I don't expect him to be an amazing shooter that is lighting people up and draining threes in people's face. I see him as more of a catch and shoot type of player who will be good enough to keep teams honest and make people devise ways of keeping him away from the three point line instead of daring him to shoot. Which is an absolutely fine thing for a player to become in today's NBA. My expectation is he will get more consistent with the three ball as he adjusts to the game, he hasn't hesitated to take the three, and his willingness to take those shots is more indicative, at least to me, of him being a good shooter than him being bad. All he needs to do is hit them.

He didn't shoot poorly in college and his free throw percentage wasn't bad either, so I'm just inferring from the shot not looking bad, and the nature of how his shots are hitting the rim, that he may be putting too much "oomph" on his shots. Probably due to physical changes he has made to prep for NBA play.

Where Franz's value really is will not be determined by his three, the three helps, but that isn't where his value will be, is in how he defends, and if he can get his handles to the next level. With better handles, his passing ability, and unselfishness will make him an excellent starter who can get others going, and it will improve his ability to make shots for himself. Defensively I have not been disappointed. He can hold his own and is a decent enough help defender that I'm sure that once his shots starts falling and he adjusts to the NBA's physical style he will be a solid starter for this team moving forward.

[tooler]

I actually liked the way Franz Wagner has played the last 2 games.

Me too. I like that he's tried some highlight dunks as well. He was blocked both times but I like the idea.

It'd be nice to find a game thread with even-keeled adults that can calmly talk about the game and the team without someone trying to write players off multiple times in a single thread. Everyone still has an axe to grind. Once again I'm not sure how long I'll last here. *shrug*

Who's writing players off? Posting stats and concerns are writing players off these days? Everybody just loves echo chambers I guess.

You are. I have eyes, so I can be annoyed about Franz's energy level too, but bringing up the specter of Moe Harkless in preseason game 4 is pointless noise.

The only echo I heard in this game thread is you repeatedly posting about him. But I'm not picking on you. RealGM is full of people that come into every thread looking for evidence to prove whatever opinion they hold, or uncontrollable anxieties about the future of the team.

I just want to watch the damn game with some Magic fans on the Internet.

[The Real Dalic]

Bamba haters have been strangely missing as of late

Hope you weren't thinking of me with this post. Lol I said Bamba was playing pretty beastly in the first game of the pre-season and have been busy since. So skipped game 2 and watched games 3 and 4 the next day.

Loving the Bamba and Carter Jr. Lineups. I think Bamba looks much better with a JI or Wendell Carter then by himself as the lone big. It allows him to play his style of game more freely and he doesn't need to be in the best positions anymore since he has help from the other big.

It also helps that Coach Mo's style of game also caters to Bamba's playstyle a lot more.

[thelead]

Me too. I like that he's tried some highlight dunks as well. He was blocked both times but I like the idea.

It'd be nice to find a game thread with even-keeled adults that can calmly talk about the game and the team without someone trying to write players off multiple times in a single thread. Everyone still has an axe to grind. Once again I'm not sure how long I'll last here. *shrug*

Who's writing players off? Posting stats and concerns are writing players off these days? Everybody just loves echo chambers I guess.

You are. I have eyes, so I can be annoyed about Franz's energy level too, but bringing up the specter of Moe Harkless in preseason game 4 is pointless noise.

The only echo I heard in this game thread is you repeatedly posting about him. But I'm not picking on you. RealGM is full of people that come into every thread looking for evidence to prove whatever opinion they hold, or uncontrollable anxieties about the future of the team.

I just want to watch the damn game with some Magic fans on the Internet.

From my point of view, everyone else is playing to what I expect so I’m more concerned with Franz and Suggs than anyone else. I think we have a good idea of most of the guys on the team at this point barring a few specifics (Markelle’s shot, JI’s health). The only question mark I have besides the rookies are how good will RJ be. He’s wildly inconsistent but he has shown flashes. I’m sold on Bamba and WCJ being part of the future unless needed for a big trade. I don’t see Cole being more than a solid backup. Chuma still has some upside but minutes are going to be tough to come by. Anyway, I wasn’t a fan of the Franz pick and have been vocal but I hope that he completely makes me look bad. I thought he was worth a look in the middle of the first round so it’s not like I thought he was a bum.

I’m not sure how much positivity you expect on this board considering we’re likely going to be one of the worst teams in the NBA. There are going to much more bad plays than good this year. A ton of missed shots, missed assignments on defense, tons of turnovers, missed rebounds, terrible shot selection, etc. It’s not going to be a pleasant year.

I will gladly support Franz for real positive plays but I’m not going to hype up nor ignore what we’re seeing from him or anyone else.

[tooler]

I don't need a thread full of positivity. You might be mistaking me for someone else. I just think we'd all be happier if we kept the anxieties and big picture predictions to a minimum in the middle of a game thread.

Just watch the game! It's fun.

[pepe1991]

I don't need a thread full of positivity. You might be mistaking me for someone else. I just think we'd all be happier if we kept the anxieties and big picture predictions to a minimum in the middle of a game thread.

Just watch the game! It's fun.

Game threads are reactionary, they are driven by emotions and especially during regular season, hot takes.

That being said if top 10 lottery pick in preseason as rookie shoots >30% from the floor on 8 ppg, mostly against fringe nba players ofc first optics and opinions about him won't be uber positive.

It doesn't help when you see Mitchell, James Bouknight and Duarte, drafted after him, playing like pros.

But nobody is writing players off after SL or preseason as you said.

Also we are projected to be top 3 worst team in nba, and even by look at starting lineup, it's not hard to figure why. So there is just so much positivity you can produce from team that is projected to lose between 52 and 60 games out of 82 games.
Also, many people like to point out how they are "more exited for this season than they were in ages" yet, game threads and empty forums ( literally evey place where Magic fans post anything) prove that most people don't really watch rebuilding teams nor there is much interest overall to follow this team. Preseason game threads hardly squeezes 5 pages of 12-15 people leaving comments. And there is healthy enough sample size from other fanbases to know rebuildings are never really watched by fanbases, especially casual fans who drift toward more interesting and competitive teams, sports.


I just struggle to understand what's your complaint about "complaining" about players? If you see this in preseason:
Player A: 4,4 ppg, 4,8 rpg, 35% FG, 17% for 3
Player B: 7,00 ppg, 2,4 rpg, 59% FG, 17% for 3
Player C: 4,5 ppg, 1,5 rpg, 26% FG

would you know witch one of them is Franz ?

Spoiler:

PLayer A is Iwundu, player B is Frazier, player c is Franz, all during rookie preseasons

And it's fine and nobody makes big deal of him sucking, but saying he indeed sucks is simply calling thigs as they are in this moment. Not proclaiming he is bust, but writing objective reality of what has happened up until this point.
For what we know he might score 25 points in first regular season and people will do 180 on him fast.

[Skybox]

I don't need a thread full of positivity. You might be mistaking me for someone else. I just think we'd all be happier if we kept the anxieties and big picture predictions to a minimum in the middle of a game thread.

Just watch the game! It's fun.

Game threads are reactionary, they are driven by emotions and especially during regular season, hot takes.

That being said if top 10 lottery pick in preseason as rookie shoots >30% from the floor on 8 ppg, mostly against fringe nba players ofc first optics and opinions about him won't be uber positive.

It doesn't help when you see Mitchell, James Bouknight and Duarte, drafted after him, playing like pros.

But nobody is writing players off after SL or preseason as you said.

Also we are projected to be top 3 worst team in nba, and even by look at starting lineup, it's not hard to figure why. So there is just so much positivity you can produce from team that is projected to lose between 52 and 60 games out of 82 games.
Also, many people like to point out how they are "more exited for this season than they were in ages" yet, game threads and empty forums ( literally evey place where Magic fans post anything) prove that most people don't really watch rebuilding teams nor there is much interest overall to follow this team. Preseason game threads hardly squeezes 5 pages of 12-15 people leaving comments. And there is healthy enough sample size from other fanbases to know rebuildings are never really watched by fanbases, especially casual fans who drift toward more interesting and competitive teams, sports.


I just struggle to understand what's your complaint about "complaining" about players? If you see this in preseason:
Player A: 4,4 ppg, 4,8 rpg, 35% FG, 17% for 3
Player B: 7,00 ppg, 2,4 rpg, 59% FG, 17% for 3
Player C: 4,5 ppg, 1,5 rpg, 26% FG

would you know witch one of them is Franz ?

Spoiler:

PLayer A is Iwundu, player B is Frazier, player c is Franz, all during rookie preseasons

And it's fine and nobody makes big deal of him sucking, but saying he indeed sucks is simply calling thigs as they are in this moment. Not proclaiming he is bust, but writing objective reality of what has happened up until this point.
For what we know he might score 25 points in first regular season and people will do 180 on him fast.

You could probably write a very critical review of Santa Claus

[pepe1991]

I don't need a thread full of positivity. You might be mistaking me for someone else. I just think we'd all be happier if we kept the anxieties and big picture predictions to a minimum in the middle of a game thread.

Just watch the game! It's fun.

Game threads are reactionary, they are driven by emotions and especially during regular season, hot takes.

That being said if top 10 lottery pick in preseason as rookie shoots >30% from the floor on 8 ppg, mostly against fringe nba players ofc first optics and opinions about him won't be uber positive.

It doesn't help when you see Mitchell, James Bouknight and Duarte, drafted after him, playing like pros.

But nobody is writing players off after SL or preseason as you said.

Also we are projected to be top 3 worst team in nba, and even by look at starting lineup, it's not hard to figure why. So there is just so much positivity you can produce from team that is projected to lose between 52 and 60 games out of 82 games.
Also, many people like to point out how they are "more exited for this season than they were in ages" yet, game threads and empty forums ( literally evey place where Magic fans post anything) prove that most people don't really watch rebuilding teams nor there is much interest overall to follow this team. Preseason game threads hardly squeezes 5 pages of 12-15 people leaving comments. And there is healthy enough sample size from other fanbases to know rebuildings are never really watched by fanbases, especially casual fans who drift toward more interesting and competitive teams, sports.


I just struggle to understand what's your complaint about "complaining" about players? If you see this in preseason:
Player A: 4,4 ppg, 4,8 rpg, 35% FG, 17% for 3
Player B: 7,00 ppg, 2,4 rpg, 59% FG, 17% for 3
Player C: 4,5 ppg, 1,5 rpg, 26% FG

would you know witch one of them is Franz ?

Spoiler:

PLayer A is Iwundu, player B is Frazier, player c is Franz, all during rookie preseasons

And it's fine and nobody makes big deal of him sucking, but saying he indeed sucks is simply calling thigs as they are in this moment. Not proclaiming he is bust, but writing objective reality of what has happened up until this point.
For what we know he might score 25 points in first regular season and people will do 180 on him fast.

You could probably write a very critical review of Santa Claus

i don't view myself as critical, just not very easly to impressed. Maybe i just saw way too many soccer & basketball youth hypejob fiascos to be head over heels about most young players.
Being Barcelona fan as kid i saw countless amount of kids being proclaimed as next Messi to end up being complete garbage.
Soccer fans will remember guys like Bojan Krkic, Alen Halilovic, Dos Santos...

And ofc there is army of guys like Robinho, Pato, Oscar and ( mostly other Brasilians) who were "next xy" until they weren't ... But oh boy... hype around them was huge.

In general, for most of us who follow soccer, we are pretty much used to see scenario too many times to care: young kid scores 3,4 goals, he is proclaimed to be team savior, some megateam buys him, he is sent to develop somwhere, 5 years later he is in Japan and nobody remembers him.
After, as kid you suffer through raise and demise of Adriano, you can hardly ever get impressed by anything
From one of best strikers in the world to a guy who is walking around with gold AK47 adding like 200 pounds of pure fat

[Skybox]

Game threads are reactionary, they are driven by emotions and especially during regular season, hot takes.

That being said if top 10 lottery pick in preseason as rookie shoots >30% from the floor on 8 ppg, mostly against fringe nba players ofc first optics and opinions about him won't be uber positive.

It doesn't help when you see Mitchell, James Bouknight and Duarte, drafted after him, playing like pros.

But nobody is writing players off after SL or preseason as you said.

Also we are projected to be top 3 worst team in nba, and even by look at starting lineup, it's not hard to figure why. So there is just so much positivity you can produce from team that is projected to lose between 52 and 60 games out of 82 games.
Also, many people like to point out how they are "more exited for this season than they were in ages" yet, game threads and empty forums ( literally evey place where Magic fans post anything) prove that most people don't really watch rebuilding teams nor there is much interest overall to follow this team. Preseason game threads hardly squeezes 5 pages of 12-15 people leaving comments. And there is healthy enough sample size from other fanbases to know rebuildings are never really watched by fanbases, especially casual fans who drift toward more interesting and competitive teams, sports.


I just struggle to understand what's your complaint about "complaining" about players? If you see this in preseason:
Player A: 4,4 ppg, 4,8 rpg, 35% FG, 17% for 3
Player B: 7,00 ppg, 2,4 rpg, 59% FG, 17% for 3
Player C: 4,5 ppg, 1,5 rpg, 26% FG

would you know witch one of them is Franz ?

Spoiler:

PLayer A is Iwundu, player B is Frazier, player c is Franz, all during rookie preseasons

And it's fine and nobody makes big deal of him sucking, but saying he indeed sucks is simply calling thigs as they are in this moment. Not proclaiming he is bust, but writing objective reality of what has happened up until this point.
For what we know he might score 25 points in first regular season and people will do 180 on him fast.

You could probably write a very critical review of Santa Claus

i don't view myself as critical, just not very easly to impressed. Maybe i just saw way too many soccer & basketball youth hypejob fiascos to be head over heels about most young players.
Being Barcelona fan as kid i saw countless amount of kids being proclaimed as next Messi to end up being complete garbage.
Soccer fans will remember guys like Bojan Krkic, Alen Halilovic, Dos Santos...

And ofc there is army of guys like Robinho, Pato, Oscar and ( mostly other Brasilians) who were "next xy" until they weren't ... But oh boy... hype around them was huge.

In general, for most of us who follow soccer, we are pretty much used to see scenario too many times to care: young kid scores 3,4 goals, he is proclaimed to be team savior, some megateam buys him, he is sent to develop somwhere, 5 years later he is in Japan and nobody remembers him.
After, as kid you suffer through raise and demise of Adriano, you can hardly ever get impressed by anything
From one of best strikers in the world to a guy who is walking around with gold AK47 adding like 200 pounds of pure fat

/Users/JWM/Desktop/funny-fat-man-big-belly-santa-costume-funny-fat-man-big-belly-santa-costume-christmas-new-year-127776417.jpg
Not Ronaldo...

[pepe1991]

You could probably write a very critical review of Santa Claus

i don't view myself as critical, just not very easly to impressed. Maybe i just saw way too many soccer & basketball youth hypejob fiascos to be head over heels about most young players.
Being Barcelona fan as kid i saw countless amount of kids being proclaimed as next Messi to end up being complete garbage.
Soccer fans will remember guys like Bojan Krkic, Alen Halilovic, Dos Santos...

And ofc there is army of guys like Robinho, Pato, Oscar and ( mostly other Brasilians) who were "next xy" until they weren't ... But oh boy... hype around them was huge.

In general, for most of us who follow soccer, we are pretty much used to see scenario too many times to care: young kid scores 3,4 goals, he is proclaimed to be team savior, some megateam buys him, he is sent to develop somwhere, 5 years later he is in Japan and nobody remembers him.
After, as kid you suffer through raise and demise of Adriano, you can hardly ever get impressed by anything
From one of best strikers in the world to a guy who is walking around with gold AK47 adding like 200 pounds of pure fat

/Users/JWM/Desktop/funny-fat-man-big-belly-santa-costume-funny-fat-man-big-belly-santa-costume-christmas-new-year-127776417.jpg
Not Ronaldo...

just popped on my facebook feed

[D J C]

I don't need a thread full of positivity. You might be mistaking me for someone else. I just think we'd all be happier if we kept the anxieties and big picture predictions to a minimum in the middle of a game thread.

Just watch the game! It's fun.

Game threads are reactionary, they are driven by emotions and especially during regular season, hot takes.

That being said if top 10 lottery pick in preseason as rookie shoots >30% from the floor on 8 ppg, mostly against fringe nba players ofc first optics and opinions about him won't be uber positive.

It doesn't help when you see Mitchell, James Bouknight and Duarte, drafted after him, playing like pros.

But nobody is writing players off after SL or preseason as you said.

Also we are projected to be top 3 worst team in nba, and even by look at starting lineup, it's not hard to figure why. So there is just so much positivity you can produce from team that is projected to lose between 52 and 60 games out of 82 games.
Also, many people like to point out how they are "more exited for this season than they were in ages" yet, game threads and empty forums ( literally evey place where Magic fans post anything) prove that most people don't really watch rebuilding teams nor there is much interest overall to follow this team. Preseason game threads hardly squeezes 5 pages of 12-15 people leaving comments. And there is healthy enough sample size from other fanbases to know rebuildings are never really watched by fanbases, especially casual fans who drift toward more interesting and competitive teams, sports.


I just struggle to understand what's your complaint about "complaining" about players? If you see this in preseason:
Player A: 4,4 ppg, 4,8 rpg, 35% FG, 17% for 3
Player B: 7,00 ppg, 2,4 rpg, 59% FG, 17% for 3
Player C: 4,5 ppg, 1,5 rpg, 26% FG

would you know witch one of them is Franz ?

Spoiler:

PLayer A is Iwundu, player B is Frazier, player c is Franz, all during rookie preseasons

And it's fine and nobody makes big deal of him sucking, but saying he indeed sucks is simply calling thigs as they are in this moment. Not proclaiming he is bust, but writing objective reality of what has happened up until this point.
For what we know he might score 25 points in first regular season and people will do 180 on him fast.

I was the biggest James Bouknight and Alperen Sengun cheerleader leading up to the draft, but Franz is our guy and it does no good to make those comparisons now.

Why are you even bringing up preseason stats and putting his name by those guys, when you yourself say its meaningless?

Klay Thompson Stats - 8/3.5/1.5 on 24/0/67 splits
Draymond Green 4/4/1 on 32/33/50 splits
Khris Middleton 6/3/1 on 34/22/86 splits
Jayson Tatum 8/4/2 on 37/33/60 splits
Bam Adebayo 6/2/.3 on 39/0/57 splits
Domantas Sabonis 7/3/3 on 48/31/63 splits

Look I can do it too. Should I keep going or?

All these All Stars "sucked" in preseason. Mario Hezonja outperformed Klay, Andrew Nicholson outperformed Bam Adebayo, Kyle Kuzma outperformed Domantas Sabonis in preseason. It doesnt mean anything at all so why even discuss?

[pepe1991]

I don't need a thread full of positivity. You might be mistaking me for someone else. I just think we'd all be happier if we kept the anxieties and big picture predictions to a minimum in the middle of a game thread.

Just watch the game! It's fun.

Game threads are reactionary, they are driven by emotions and especially during regular season, hot takes.

That being said if top 10 lottery pick in preseason as rookie shoots >30% from the floor on 8 ppg, mostly against fringe nba players ofc first optics and opinions about him won't be uber positive.

It doesn't help when you see Mitchell, James Bouknight and Duarte, drafted after him, playing like pros.

But nobody is writing players off after SL or preseason as you said.

Also we are projected to be top 3 worst team in nba, and even by look at starting lineup, it's not hard to figure why. So there is just so much positivity you can produce from team that is projected to lose between 52 and 60 games out of 82 games.
Also, many people like to point out how they are "more exited for this season than they were in ages" yet, game threads and empty forums ( literally evey place where Magic fans post anything) prove that most people don't really watch rebuilding teams nor there is much interest overall to follow this team. Preseason game threads hardly squeezes 5 pages of 12-15 people leaving comments. And there is healthy enough sample size from other fanbases to know rebuildings are never really watched by fanbases, especially casual fans who drift toward more interesting and competitive teams, sports.


I just struggle to understand what's your complaint about "complaining" about players? If you see this in preseason:
Player A: 4,4 ppg, 4,8 rpg, 35% FG, 17% for 3
Player B: 7,00 ppg, 2,4 rpg, 59% FG, 17% for 3
Player C: 4,5 ppg, 1,5 rpg, 26% FG

would you know witch one of them is Franz ?

Spoiler:

PLayer A is Iwundu, player B is Frazier, player c is Franz, all during rookie preseasons

And it's fine and nobody makes big deal of him sucking, but saying he indeed sucks is simply calling thigs as they are in this moment. Not proclaiming he is bust, but writing objective reality of what has happened up until this point.
For what we know he might score 25 points in first regular season and people will do 180 on him fast.

I was the biggest James Bouknight and Alperen Sengun cheerleader leading up to the draft, but Franz is our guy and it does no good to make those comparisons now.

Why are you even bringing up preseason stats and putting his name by those guys, when you yourself say its meaningless?

Klay Thompson Stats - 8/3.5/1.5 on 24/0/67 splits 2 games played, 20,5 ppg in summerleague
Draymond Green 4/4/1 on 32/33/50 splits 35th pick
Khris Middleton 6/3/1 on 34/22/86 splits 39th pick
Jayson Tatum 8/4/2 on 37/33/60 splits Easly one of best summerleague players at age of 19 as rookie
Bam Adebayo 6/2/.3 on 39/0/57 splits 17 ppg, 8 rpg in summerleague, played only 12 mpg in preseason
Domantas Sabonis 7/3/3 on 48/31/63 splits Didn't play SL, was playing Olympics

Look I can do it too. Should I keep going or?

All these All Stars "sucked" in preseason. Mario Hezonja outperformed Klay, Andrew Nicholson outperformed Bam Adebayo, Kyle Kuzma outperformed Domantas Sabonis in preseason. It doesnt mean anything at all so why even discuss?

So yea, most of your cherrypicked players either aren't lottery picks or were at least playing well in SL ( minus Sabonis, who played at Olympics instad , nothing special but expected from 19 y.o. kid).

Why are you even bringing up preseason stats and putting his name by those guys, when you yourself say its meaningless?

Because there are claims he is "not playing bad" and " looking good" when he really does not . He has been poor in both SL and preseason. But SL nor preseason still mean nothing, that's why i wrote

For what we know he might score 25 points in first regular season and people will do 180 on him fast

I just find it hilarious that people get offended when you say player is playing bad, when by all perimeters he is playing bad