2021-22 Season/Offseason Speculation

[Ghost of Kleine]

All of these are definitely valid concerns! But even in a 50/50 ( best outcome scenario) wherein we sign him at market value for potentially less than he's asking for with his restricted rights, The damage will already be done with Ayton, fostering distrust, contempt, peer pressure from numerous outside sources that could sour our relationship with him to the point of becoming toxic!


But worst of all would be the unecessary distraction for one or maybe both of our key starters with things bring unresolved and up in the air. These types of issues absolutely affect a teams' chemistry and focus. On top of all that, The broad media narrative will paint a very poor perspective of our franchise competency, front office, ownership commitment, and player relations overall. This would severely set us back in being able to attract any legitimate free agents, As these concerns would deter most free agents from considering us due concerns over similar treatment/ issues.

How teams treat their players both in terms of value/ prioritizing of player's needs/ contracts (pay) are huge deals around the league. Saver choosing to repeatedly lowball and " leverage " control in negotiations to squeeze players on contract value would make us a percieved free agency pariah. We'd be worse off than before because now everyone would understand that Sarvers' past wasn't an outlier situation at all. But rather a clear indictment of what a truly terrible owner he is, Just as everyone had originally suspected.


Also for all those wanting to wait and see, I can understand this position of course. But maybe look at things this way.........

IF we take Ayton off our roster last season in the playoffs, How far do we realistically go? Now take that a step further, We all know that Paul will be gone in another season or two. How competitive will we be once Paul's gone, IF Ayton is also gone too? And at that point, if we're not legitimate contenders, What will keep Booker from leaving in 2024???

Without Paul and Ayton, How competitive are we REALISTICALLY with only Book and Bridges and our bench supporting cast? Maybe a near .500 team at best IF everything falls exactly right! The question has been posed by many on here too. Who exactly do we replace him with that will fill his production and intangibles in order to sustain his being competitive. There's just too many negatives in not signing him now to risk so many potential negative consequences of waiting, Just to save a bit of additional cap space.

Take either of Paul or AYTON off our roster, and we're not contending, We're likely not even a playoff team either if we're being honest. As all of these other upstart teams will pass us by now with us being so thin up front! We need to do the right thing by Ayton, and also try not to tarnish our image even further around the league in interest of getting a potential discount.

[Slim Charless]

Next summer Ayton can perfectly say that he doesn't want to play for the Suns anymore because he hasn't been respected by Sarver or the organization. He would sign an offer sheet for the max with another team and he would ask the Suns to not match it because he really wants out. James Jones will never sign a player who doesn't want to play for us and Sarver would be OK because he would save some money. Easy.

I am not saying that I think this is gonna happen, but I don't think it would be something rare.

Different case, but I remember when people here were saying "Markieff has a four year contract, he will play for us and we will trade him whenever we want..." Good players decide always where they play and they can get there at any moment. Look at Harden last year, Blake Griffin, now Simmons...

Some of you guys are missing out about my main point of him signing the QO. If he goes to a NYC then he can easily make that $$$$ back via endorsements. I mean sure he'll lose 1 yr off the 5yr deal we can give him. But on the flip side of that he can walk into Madison Square Garden as the biggest star since prime Melo and their best big man since Patrick Ewing-over 30yrs ago. You don't think that's worth some change?

Plus, Worldwide Wes and other equally shadey and connected people work for that Knicks organization now. They can easily do some underhanded stuff on the backend all season to get DA over.

This is a legitimate problem. Certain posters are ignoring it but we all should been concerned if he isn't signed by Tuesday.

He won't take the QO. Knicks could sign him maybe but only if they let Randle go which likely wouldn't be popular. He's viewed as better than Ayton right now.

Feel like you're wrong here. Randle isn't signed to max money and Fournier-while a dumb contract isn't back breaking. By the time Ayton would hit UFA, they'd have enough to give him a max deal.

And FTR the Knicks are the only team that's in discussion here as part of not signing a 5th year with us is getting that XT endorsement money.

[Ghost of Kleine]

David Kevin (@theIVpointplay) Tweeted:
McGee is shooting at 74% in the preseason & 83% in the restricted area lol

Read on Twitter

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[Ghost of Kleine]

PHNX Suns (@PHNX_Suns) Tweeted:
If the Suns are smart, they'll get those contract extensions for Deandre Ayton and Mikal Bridges taken care of.

Otherwise, they're playing with fire ⬇️

https://t.co/oe5GALjfeF

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Mike Vigil (@protectedpick) Tweeted:
This is insane.

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Not too sure on this one!
But I do think he can achieve somewhere in between Ewing ( offense) and Olajuwan (defense).

[darealjuice]

100% spot on. There are a lot of folks sitting on the fence about maxing Ayton. Let him convince us this season. Offer him a max next summer if he shows the consistency we demand. He'd be a fool to take the QO if given a max by the Suns. Even if the Suns let his agent test the waters next summer they can still match any RFA offers. Remember, he didn't get the Sheandrea moniker for nothing.

But was is he worth? Is he worth losing? Would you match a max and lose a year? They have potentially some to lose by waiting and discontent going into season. Is it worth risk? How much money do you care about Sarver saving?

I definitely don't think waiting on Ayton is a bad thing if you give him a max next summer, but why mess with a finals team at all? Who really cares if Sarver saves a few million a year when we will be working over the cap and only have MLE to use for FAs?

I think "What's the point?" is a fair question. Unless we think he's worth significantly less than the max extension and/or are open to trading him, we're just kicking the can down the road at the risk of discontent. I doubt anyone's concern about paying Ayton is for the sake of saving Sarver money though.

I personally don't think Ayton is capable of being "The Man" at this point though, so I understand apprehension to giving him the max extension. It's scary when there've been points in every season that people wondered if Richaun Holmes, Aron Baynes, or Dario Saric should be getting more playing time or even starting over him. Wouldn't be surprised if we hear about it with JaVale at some point too with how he looked in preseason. I also think it's fair to question how many centers averaging 16/10.7/1.7/1.2 over their career with averages of 14.5/10.5/1.4/1.2 in their most recent season would get a max contract if they weren't the #1 pick.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Cam Johnson’s combined per-36 numbers in the playoffs and preseason:

15.3 PPG
71.1 TS%
46.6 3PT%

Johnson has taken the leap to becoming one of the most efficient scoring wings in the NBA.

Read on Twitter

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Cam will become an excellent replacement for Crowder once he comes off the books!
( with Smith at the backup 4 of course).

[bwgood77]

100% spot on. There are a lot of folks sitting on the fence about maxing Ayton. Let him convince us this season. Offer him a max next summer if he shows the consistency we demand. He'd be a fool to take the QO if given a max by the Suns. Even if the Suns let his agent test the waters next summer they can still match any RFA offers. Remember, he didn't get the Sheandrea moniker for nothing.

But was is he worth? Is he worth losing? Would you match a max and lose a year? They have potentially some to lose by waiting and discontent going into season. Is it worth risk? How much money do you care about Sarver saving?

I definitely don't think waiting on Ayton is a bad thing if you give him a max next summer, but why mess with a finals team at all? Who really cares if Sarver saves a few million a year when we will be working over the cap and only have MLE to use for FAs?

I think "What's the point?" is a fair question. Unless we think he's worth significantly less than the max extension and/or are open to trading him, we're just kicking the can down the road at the risk of discontent. I doubt anyone's concern about paying Ayton is for the sake of saving Sarver money though.

I personally don't think Ayton is capable of being "The Man" at this point though, so I understand apprehension to giving him the max extension. It's scary when there've been points in every season that people wondered if Richaun Holmes, Aron Baynes, or Dario Saric should be getting more playing time or even starting over him. Wouldn't be surprised if we hear about it with JaVale at some point too with how he looked in preseason. I also think it's fair to question how many centers averaging 16/10.7/1.7/1.2 over their career with averages of 14.5/10.5/1.4/1.2 in their most recent season would get a max contract if they weren't the #1 pick.

I know no one is concerned with Sarver saving money but the point is we will be operating over the cap while we are a team wanting to contend so it doesn't create cap space. The ONLY consideration would be worrying about luxury tax and or getting into the tax MLE which is a little less, but I don't think we really are into the tax much more than next year UNLESS we keep Paul a 3rd year and pay him $30 million. I expect we cut him after 2.

It's basically just penny pinching because it doesn't really help us have more space to sign guys in FA or anything. I just don't see much of a point.

The saving grace is that Monty has such a great relationship with players that I think any discontent could be smoothed over. "We just wanted to make sure we got the most out of you, etc."...I don't know...I mean I think he's a hard worker anyway. His wheels may have been spinning a bit too much at times with Monty/CP3, etc giving him constant feedback advice and him trying to absorb too much info too quickly but come playoff time he was ready for what we needed him for.

[bwgood77]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Cam Johnson’s combined per-36 numbers in the playoffs and preseason:

15.3 PPG
71.1 TS%
46.6 3PT%

Johnson has taken the leap to becoming one of the most efficient scoring wings in the NBA.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Cam will become an excellent replacement for Crowder once he CV comes off the books!
( with Smith at the backup 4 of course).

I think Cam can be very efficient but I wouldn't put too much stock into preseason. Seems like a lot of people are. Not saying we wouldn't be good but would anyone be saying we suck if we were 0-4 in the preseason? Well, I guess I know the answer to that..yes, people would be worried, but not the vast majority because they wouldn't think it mattered too much.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Cam Johnson’s combined per-36 numbers in the playoffs and preseason:

15.3 PPG
71.1 TS%
46.6 3PT%

Johnson has taken the leap to becoming one of the most efficient scoring wings in the NBA.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Cam will become an excellent replacement for Crowder once he CV comes off the books!
( with Smith at the backup 4 of course).

I think Cam can be very efficient but I wouldn't put too much stock into preseason. Seems like a lot of people are. Not saying we wouldn't be good but would anyone be saying we suck if we were 0-4 in the preseason? Well, I guess I know the answer to that..yes, people would be worried, but not the vast majority because they wouldn't think it mattered too much.

I hear ya!
I actually think that he'll surprise everyone a bit more during the season with improved skillset. And I do also think that by the all star break,
He'll really challenge for Crowders' spot. Especially with him expecting to get paid as well soon!

[bigfoot]

But was is he worth? Is he worth losing? Would you match a max and lose a year? They have potentially some to lose by waiting and discontent going into season. Is it worth risk? How much money do you care about Sarver saving?

I definitely don't think waiting on Ayton is a bad thing if you give him a max next summer, but why mess with a finals team at all? Who really cares if Sarver saves a few million a year when we will be working over the cap and only have MLE to use for FAs?

I think "What's the point?" is a fair question. Unless we think he's worth significantly less than the max extension and/or are open to trading him, we're just kicking the can down the road at the risk of discontent. I doubt anyone's concern about paying Ayton is for the sake of saving Sarver money though.

I personally don't think Ayton is capable of being "The Man" at this point though, so I understand apprehension to giving him the max extension. It's scary when there've been points in every season that people wondered if Richaun Holmes, Aron Baynes, or Dario Saric should be getting more playing time or even starting over him. Wouldn't be surprised if we hear about it with JaVale at some point too with how he looked in preseason. I also think it's fair to question how many centers averaging 16/10.7/1.7/1.2 over their career with averages of 14.5/10.5/1.4/1.2 in their most recent season would get a max contract if they weren't the #1 pick.

I know no one is concerned with Sarver saving money but the point is we will be operating over the cap while we are a team wanting to contend so it doesn't create cap space. The ONLY consideration would be worrying about luxury tax and or getting into the tax MLE which is a little less, but I don't think we really are into the tax much more than next year UNLESS we keep Paul a 3rd year and pay him $30 million. I expect we cut him after 2.

It's basically just penny pinching because it doesn't really help us have more space to sign guys in FA or anything. I just don't see much of a point.

The saving grace is that Monty has such a great relationship with players that I think any discontent could be smoothed over. "We just wanted to make sure we got the most out of you, etc."...I don't know...I mean I think he's a hard worker anyway. His wheels may have been spinning a bit too much at times with Monty/CP3, etc giving him constant feedback advice and him trying to absorb too much info too quickly but come playoff time he was ready for what we needed him for.

Really there are other things to consider besides the luxury tax. We have three players we need to consider paying ... Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson. Booker is a sunk cost but the others still could have major breakouts. Prematurely paying Ayton or Bridges could hamstring the Suns' chances of retaining the proper members of the core. Let this season play out and bring clarity for where the "limited" dollars should go.

[darealjuice]

I know no one is concerned with Sarver saving money but the point is we will be operating over the cap while we are a team wanting to contend so it doesn't create cap space. The ONLY consideration would be worrying about luxury tax and or getting into the tax MLE which is a little less, but I don't think we really are into the tax much more than next year UNLESS we keep Paul a 3rd year and pay him $30 million. I expect we cut him after 2.

It's basically just penny pinching because it doesn't really help us have more space to sign guys in FA or anything. I just don't see much of a point.

The saving grace is that Monty has such a great relationship with players that I think any discontent could be smoothed over. "We just wanted to make sure we got the most out of you, etc."...I don't know...I mean I think he's a hard worker anyway. His wheels may have been spinning a bit too much at times with Monty/CP3, etc giving him constant feedback advice and him trying to absorb too much info too quickly but come playoff time he was ready for what we needed him for.

I get your point, but it's just unrealistic to expect owners to starting throwing around money without considering valuation because they're already over the cap. At this point, I'd assume that there's a fairly significant difference in valuation, disagreement over team/player options, or the Suns just aren't comfortable paying him without seeing him build on his playoff performance. I don't think James Jones would let this be held up by penny pinching.

I'm sure he's had a lot thrown at him, but I also think he needs to be held to the same standard as the players he wants to be paid like. He's not going through anything that Luka, Trae, SGA, MPJ, Mitchell, Tatum, Adebayo, Fox, Booker, KAT, etc. didn't. He's not at the top of the scouting report on offense like the majority of those guys. He's become a good defender, but playing good defense is the expectation for centers. I'd just like to see some steps forward on offense.

[lilfishi22]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Cam Johnson’s combined per-36 numbers in the playoffs and preseason:

15.3 PPG
71.1 TS%
46.6 3PT%

Johnson has taken the leap to becoming one of the most efficient scoring wings in the NBA.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Cam will become an excellent replacement for Crowder once he CV comes off the books!
( with Smith at the backup 4 of course).

I think Cam can be very efficient but I wouldn't put too much stock into preseason. Seems like a lot of people are. Not saying we wouldn't be good but would anyone be saying we suck if we were 0-4 in the preseason? Well, I guess I know the answer to that..yes, people would be worried, but not the vast majority because they wouldn't think it mattered too much.

I hear ya!
I actually think that he'll surprise everyone a bit more during the season with improved skillset. And I do also think that by the all star break,
He'll really challenge for Crowders' spot. Especially with him expecting to get paid as well soon!

I'm putting stock in his playoff and pre-season stats for sure. He's going to get opportunities to step up, potentially play heavy minutes and in the clutch. This is going to be a big year for Cam

[bwgood77]

I think "What's the point?" is a fair question. Unless we think he's worth significantly less than the max extension and/or are open to trading him, we're just kicking the can down the road at the risk of discontent. I doubt anyone's concern about paying Ayton is for the sake of saving Sarver money though.

I personally don't think Ayton is capable of being "The Man" at this point though, so I understand apprehension to giving him the max extension. It's scary when there've been points in every season that people wondered if Richaun Holmes, Aron Baynes, or Dario Saric should be getting more playing time or even starting over him. Wouldn't be surprised if we hear about it with JaVale at some point too with how he looked in preseason. I also think it's fair to question how many centers averaging 16/10.7/1.7/1.2 over their career with averages of 14.5/10.5/1.4/1.2 in their most recent season would get a max contract if they weren't the #1 pick.

I know no one is concerned with Sarver saving money but the point is we will be operating over the cap while we are a team wanting to contend so it doesn't create cap space. The ONLY consideration would be worrying about luxury tax and or getting into the tax MLE which is a little less, but I don't think we really are into the tax much more than next year UNLESS we keep Paul a 3rd year and pay him $30 million. I expect we cut him after 2.

It's basically just penny pinching because it doesn't really help us have more space to sign guys in FA or anything. I just don't see much of a point.

The saving grace is that Monty has such a great relationship with players that I think any discontent could be smoothed over. "We just wanted to make sure we got the most out of you, etc."...I don't know...I mean I think he's a hard worker anyway. His wheels may have been spinning a bit too much at times with Monty/CP3, etc giving him constant feedback advice and him trying to absorb too much info too quickly but come playoff time he was ready for what we needed him for.

Really there are other things to consider besides the luxury tax. We have three players we need to consider paying ... Ayton, Bridges, and Cam Johnson. Booker is a sunk cost but the others still could have major breakouts. Prematurely paying Ayton or Bridges could hamstring the Suns' chances of retaining the proper members of the core. Let this season play out and bring clarity for where the "limited" dollars should go.

Still, Cam comes due after we lose Saric, Crowder and most likely Paul. I doubt he gets more than maybe $15, though I guess in 2 years with a higher cap that amount might be closer to $20. I think 538 might project him a little low but he will be 27 when his next contract starts so probably will have reached his peak already or close to it.

But make no mistake about it, Ayton and Bridges are part of our core future big 3. The rest are role players.

[bwgood77]

I think Cam can be very efficient but I wouldn't put too much stock into preseason. Seems like a lot of people are. Not saying we wouldn't be good but would anyone be saying we suck if we were 0-4 in the preseason? Well, I guess I know the answer to that..yes, people would be worried, but not the vast majority because they wouldn't think it mattered too much.

I hear ya!
I actually think that he'll surprise everyone a bit more during the season with improved skillset. And I do also think that by the all star break,
He'll really challenge for Crowders' spot. Especially with him expecting to get paid as well soon!

I'm putting stock in his playoff and pre-season stats for sure. He's going to get opportunities to step up, potentially play heavy minutes and in the clutch. This is going to be a big year for Cam

I think he should definitely be a lot better than last year. He needs to get that 34.9% 3pt % closer to 40%. But his defense looked better this past year and he's a solid cutter and could score in other ways. Hopefully he gets more minutes but Monty love Crowder and says it's hard to take him off the floor.

[RunDogGun]

Evan Sidery (@esidery) Tweeted:
Cam Johnson’s combined per-36 numbers in the playoffs and preseason:

15.3 PPG
71.1 TS%
46.6 3PT%

Johnson has taken the leap to becoming one of the most efficient scoring wings in the NBA.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

Cam will become an excellent replacement for Crowder once he comes off the books!
( with Smith at the backup 4 of course).

And yet our coach will do his best to limit Johnson's minutes like he did in the playoffs.

[Puff]

shooting those sissy little jumpers Ayton loves to shoot.

You heard it here first guys, REAL MEN DON'T SHOOT THE J! :lol:[/quote

There is no Center of any merit that I have seen play in the NBA that was a more afraid than Ayton to tke it strong to the hole in traffic for and 1's. He is virtually useless on post ups, he has no moves to the hole. He virtually never takes one dribble and scores in traffic.
He gets his point on "his SISSY jumpers" and the spoon fed lobs from his team mates.

His rebounding and defense have been very good. I want more from a max player. Hopefully he shows us more this year. If he does we will be very dangerous and he will be very rich next summer.

[Slim Charless]

There are a few days until Oct 18th, but after that meeting between them Ayton said to reporters that he was disappointed, so I think an agreement at this point it is a LONG shot.

For what Sarver has said it seems that he thinks that is easier to agree on a deal next year.

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

There have only been a few max extensions, at least 3 are no brainers and the other is a guy who has ELITE scoring efficiency and somewhat of a similar early game to KD.

I don't think anyone thought he was worth a max before the playoffs, except I guess I'mNotMcDISwear. And I defended him more than anyone and thought he was valuable. Many wanted him traded.

I think Sarver reads the forum and knows what people think of his inconsistencies and of course those who don't think he has that much value (bigfoot, etc). A lot of complaining outside of him too (Mjee, jdiddy, Frank, etc).

You're kidding right? I know you're a mod and you guys can't troll post but still....this HAS to be a joke.


Right?

[Jdiddy701]

Kinda weird that we haven’t heard any news on Mikal Bridges’ extension. I wonder if the Suns already extended him and are waiting for Deandre Ayton before announcing both at the same time. If I had to guess, Mikal will be extended by Monday and DA will go into next summer. Really hope we hear something soon!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bwgood77]

Again, I would ask Sarver - if Ayton turns the offer down and leaves - what will it cost to replace him? Is it worth 3-4m per year maybe

Second with the team over the cap - how will you fit him under the cap?

I mean sure, you can offer 125/5 - but be realistic -- thats not going to happen to get DA signed

There have only been a few max extensions, at least 3 are no brainers and the other is a guy who has ELITE scoring efficiency and somewhat of a similar early game to KD.

I don't think anyone thought he was worth a max before the playoffs, except I guess I'mNotMcDISwear. And I defended him more than anyone and thought he was valuable. Many wanted him traded.

I think Sarver reads the forum and knows what people think of his inconsistencies and of course those who don't think he has that much value (bigfoot, etc). A lot of complaining outside of him too (Mjee, jdiddy, Frank, etc).

You're kidding right? I know you're a mod and you guys can't troll post but still....this HAS to be a joke.

Right?

Not sure what you mean. You didn't see all the complaining? No one has turned down a max rookie extension to play on the QO. No one. Or even a deal worth near $30 million a year. Probably not even $25.