NBA protocols/Covid/Vaccine - Discussion thread

[FNQ]

NBA STAR BRANDON GOODWIN GETS BLOOD CLOTS AFTER THE CLOT SHOT
Ended his season, possibly his NBA career.
The NBA asked him to keep it hush!

Watch on YouTube

Heres a youtube video.

Make sure to check back with us with this is proven wrong.

NBA star and renowned scientist Brandon Goodwin self diagnoses the health issues that led to the end of his season. I really wonder how people think this kind of stuff supports their position. Wild.

I dont want to dismiss Goodwin's experience. But there are several things wrong with the way all caps guy presented this:

1) His season was ending regardless. Hawks got healthy. I remember checking his name in fantasy a lot. Not because I wanted him, but because it meant Trae Young was healthy

2) His career goes on, barely, like it did before, as he signed with the Knicks today. He was, and is, a fringe NBA player

3) the J&J shot, which is what he got, has had some cases of clotting - much higher than the mRNA shot. It is infrequent though

However what stands out to me is that he's saying this, not ever mentioning his doctor said this. But the bigger issue for me, and what should be for everyone, is if the Hawks actually did tell him to keep it quiet. Now this could be for many reasons, even justifiable ones, but if that did happen, the Hawks should be punished. I'd imagine the reason they weren't, and won't be, is because Goodwin was an expendable player that doesnt matter to Vegas at all. But, if the diagnosis they gave was the same one presented by the doctor -- which is pretty much 100% of the time -- then we're going to believe Goodwin over the medical professional who oversaw his specific case?

Either way.. I always have thought the mRNA shots are better, and if anyone ever has to pick between the two, I'd go with Pfizer obviously. But I won't entirely discount this either.. but on its own, its not a big deal. He had a clot that was dealt with, usually takes a cycle of 2 weeks max (but typically less), so the Hawks saw an opportunity to shut him down more than likely. I very much doubt Trae Young would have been shut down for the season in the same situation

[ReddoverKobe]

Heres a youtube video.

Make sure to check back with us with this is proven wrong.

NBA star and renowned scientist Brandon Goodwin self diagnoses the health issues that led to the end of his season. I really wonder how people think this kind of stuff supports their position. Wild.

And who cares what a poster X has to say on an NBA forum. He is a victim of the shot, and that is more than enough for me to be truly cautious.

Zero proof of this of course.

[FNQ]

NBA star and renowned scientist Brandon Goodwin self diagnoses the health issues that led to the end of his season. I really wonder how people think this kind of stuff supports their position. Wild.

And who cares what a poster X has to say on an NBA forum. He is a victim of the shot, and that is more than enough for me to be truly cautious.

Zero proof of this of course.

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

[fishfuego.]

And who cares what a poster X has to say on an NBA forum. He is a victim of the shot, and that is more than enough for me to be truly cautious.

Zero proof of this of course.

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

Sure ok.

[hardenASG13]

Zero proof of this of course.

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

Sure ok.

98% of those being hospitalized due to covid and/or dying of it are unvaccinated. Your argument of one guy saying he fot blood clots which hes recovered from isnt very strong considering the other side of the argument (the whole 98% thing). One in 470 americans has died of Covid, when will it be enough? Believe it or not people are dying all over the world, not just here. This is the one mandate ive ever seen like this, and rightfully so as its the first global pandemic ive ever seen. Your not losing any freedoms. What other mandate is impacting anyones rights or being suggested?

How about this. Unvaccinated can stay that way, but agree that hospitals dont have to treat you when you get severe covid (as they are now, when the anti vaxxers who dont trust them realize theyve messed up). Does that sound good? Take a look around the world, the US governme nt isnt out to get anyone. We are trying to end the pandemic we are all sick of, and vaccines are the best method humankind has. Grow up.

[Bucksmaniac]

And who cares what a poster X has to say on an NBA forum. He is a victim of the shot, and that is more than enough for me to be truly cautious.

Zero proof of this of course.

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

It’s important to look at the NBA picture though. There has not been a clear case of the vax saving any player from a negative outcome of COVID but a very good chance it’s curtailing the career of a player.

[xdrta+]

Zero proof of this of course.

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

It’s important to look at the NBA picture though. There has not been a clear case of the vax saving any player from a negative outcome of COVID but a very good chance it’s curtailing the career of a player.

Just how do you show a clear case of the vaccine saving any player?

[ReddoverKobe]

Zero proof of this of course.

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

It’s important to look at the NBA picture though. There has not been a clear case of the vax saving any player from a negative outcome of COVID but a very good chance it’s curtailing the career of a player.

The dude just signed with the knicks so that lie is out the window. Now do we get to the one where it was never proven that the vaccine caused the clot?

[Bucksmaniac]

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

It’s important to look at the NBA picture though. There has not been a clear case of the vax saving any player from a negative outcome of COVID but a very good chance it’s curtailing the career of a player.

Just how do you show a clear case of the vaccine saving any player?

Most realistic way is if any of them had a real grueling case, got vaccinated and since then haven’t been reinfected. Given that hasn’t happened it also illustrates just how low risk NBA players have been to this point in the pandemic.

[Bucksmaniac]

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

It’s important to look at the NBA picture though. There has not been a clear case of the vax saving any player from a negative outcome of COVID but a very good chance it’s curtailing the career of a player.

The dude just signed with the knicks so that lie is out the window. Now do we get to the one where it was never proven that the vaccine caused the clot?

Until he’s played in several games and not had issues I wouldn’t feel so sure. Hope he is successful.

[FNQ]

It’s important to look at the NBA picture though. There has not been a clear case of the vax saving any player from a negative outcome of COVID but a very good chance it’s curtailing the career of a player.

The dude just signed with the knicks so that lie is out the window. Now do we get to the one where it was never proven that the vaccine caused the clot?

Until he’s played in several games and not had issues I wouldn’t feel so sure. Hope he is successful.

So to be clear, you are saying that if he doesn't make the Knicks roster after being signed on October 14th, when the regular season on October 19th, after being a 2-way contract fringe NBA player.. then we're blaming the vaccine for that. Or am I mistaken here?

[FNQ]

It’s important to look at the NBA picture though. There has not been a clear case of the vax saving any player from a negative outcome of COVID but a very good chance it’s curtailing the career of a player.

Just how do you show a clear case of the vaccine saving any player?

Most realistic way is if any of them had a real grueling case, got vaccinated and since then haven’t been reinfected. Given that hasn’t happened it also illustrates just how low risk NBA players have been to this point in the pandemic.

Define real grueling. Was Jayson Tatum grueling? Or that he had to use an inhaler afterwards and didn't feel normal months after?

Or are we talking career threatening, like Josh Archibald of the NHL, who once bragged that he didnt need the COVID vaccination because he was a healthy young man?

[Bucksmaniac]

The dude just signed with the knicks so that lie is out the window. Now do we get to the one where it was never proven that the vaccine caused the clot?

Until he’s played in several games and not had issues I wouldn’t feel so sure. Hope he is successful.

So to be clear, you are saying that if he doesn't make the Knicks roster after being signed on October 14th, when the regular season on October 19th, after being a 2-way contract fringe NBA player.. then we're blaming the vaccine for that. Or am I mistaken here?

This is assuming his play deserves it in the first place. That being said we may never know if his cardio ends up playing a part (and that would probably be affected by this blood clot issue) in him getting cut.

[xdrta+]

It’s important to look at the NBA picture though. There has not been a clear case of the vax saving any player from a negative outcome of COVID but a very good chance it’s curtailing the career of a player.

Just how do you show a clear case of the vaccine saving any player?

Most realistic way is if any of them had a real grueling case, got vaccinated and since then haven’t been reinfected. Given that hasn’t happened it also illustrates just how low risk NBA players have been to this point in the pandemic.

That's realistic, seriously? Someone gets sick, gets a vaccine, and doesn't get sick again, and that proves something? Maybe he wouldn't have gotten sick again anyway. No way to know if the vaccine had anything to do with it. And because of this one unlikely, irrelevant scenario that has never happened, that shows that NBA players are at low risk? That's about the most unrealistic example you could have dreamed up.

[michaelm]

4.55m people dead

one fringe NBA player has a minor reaction to the shot

"he's a victim, and now I'm gonna be cautious"

Look math is hard, but its not that hard

Sure ok.

98% of those being hospitalized due to covid and/or dying of it are unvaccinated. Your argument of one guy saying he fot blood clots which hes recovered from isnt very strong considering the other side of the argument (the whole 98% thing). One in 470 americans has died of Covid, when will it be enough? Believe it or not people are dying all over the world, not just here. This is the one mandate ive ever seen like this is onthis, and rightfully so as its the first global pandemic ive ever seen. Your not losing any freedoms. What other mandate is impacting anyones rights or being suggested?

How about this. Unvaccinated can stay that way, but agree that hospitals dont have to treat you when you get severe covid (as they are now, when the anti vaxxers who dont trust them realize theyve messed up). Does that sound good? Take a look around the world, the US governme nt isnt out to get anyone. We are trying to end the pandemic we are all sick of, and vaccines are the best method humankind has. Grow up.

I don’t like analogies in general, but this is a case where if true the seatbelt analogy may be apposite.

It is almost always better to be wearing a seatbelt in a car crash, but very occasionally it isn’t. The incidence of clotting is much higher with infection with the virus, and quite commonly a contributor to patients requiring admission to ICU, including young people.

If he had pulmonary emboli he should be alright, and is more likely to make a full recovery with no sequelae than if he got a serious case of the virus with lung involvement. He won’t get VITTS again if he doesn’t have a viral vector vaccine again. The diagnosis is easily made btw, reduced platelet count and raised D dimer. Clotting with the mRNA vaccines is rarer than rare and likely by a different mechanism.

[michaelm]

How can you assign blame on the individual for the failure of a public policy? A public policy is not right or wrong independent of its reception. A public policy is assessed as right or wrong PRECISELY in how it's received.

Well is it not a bit of both? Would you say drunk drivers are a bringer of death? There is societal responsibility to help ensure drunk driving is minimized through norms and policy but ultimately the individual is responsible for getting behind the wheel of the car

Yes, it is a bit of both. The collective results are handled in the collective sphere, and the individual responsibilities are addressed in the individual sphere.

Drunk driving has been around for many decades, during which overwhelming social consensus has been built that says drunk driving is wrong and dangerous.

At the same time. we have the technology to make intoxication-proof vehicles, and we've had it for decades. And I don't mean a crappy breathalyzer that anyone can blow into. There are more effective ways that would pretty much solve the issue by making it physically impossible for an intoxicated person to sit at the wheel of a moving car.

But our policy makers prefer to keep it the way it is. Why?

Because they either don't have the interest, money, power or all three to make car manufacturers comply with what should be a very simple fix. There's no profit in solving drunk driving. Human tragedy is not necessarily a waste of resources for companies that have the State's legal blessing, as evidenced most obviously by the contents of our food.

For drunk driving, It's easier to keep the punishment scheme and keep many cops employed. It's very important for the State to keep cops on their payroll and under their control, and that's one reason why they're always gonna favor the punishment schemes instead of solution schemes. It's cheaper, faster, and it keeps the gun on their side.

The public policy on drunk driving is a bad policy for the simple fact that it's neither the easiest, most efficient, nor the more humane solution. It's a stopgap policy that's still there because of lack of interest in a real solution. And we accept it because it's the only alternative we're given, and it's better than nothing. And most importantly, The Experts among us will defend it because look at the numbers! It clearly shows it diminishes drunk driving, right?

I mean for crying out loud, we'll reach the stage of self driving cars before we could come up with a more simple solution to prevent intoxicated people from driving. How crazy is that.

In this case we're talking about a policy that is in the stage of building consensus, two completely different things.

Bottom-line is:

If I can't excuse my misbehavior by blaming it on the policy.
then
The policy can't excuse it's failure by blaming it on my misbehavior

You can't have it both ways.

So technology should be the answer to drunk driving, but isn’t for Covid 19 infection ?.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

This general tone of "no one can tell me what to do" is terribly overdone in the US. I'm American, live in America but have also lived in many parts of the world. (Asia, Canada) and travelled to every continent and over 50 countries. I only say this to make my point that there are several "free" countries, that accept mandated vaccinations or other regulatory/government mandatory policies. Many of these countries have way higher happiness indexes, health indexes, etc. than USA. I reject the blind notion that there shouldn't be mandatory policies, and that the government can't tell me what to do. I can't be naked in public, I can't drive a tank on the roads, etc. In fact women can't even have abortions in certain states. So there are plenty of mandatory public policies, largely designed for public good. Mandatory vax policy is 100% designed to save lives overall, and its purpose is not to invade personal health. There is also no evidence of vaccinations being bad for you. So all in all, Kyries position is just moronic to me.

Know what you did was assume he thinks no one is going to tell him what to do.

Under martial law or war time rules people can be killed. People can be forced to be vaccinated against certain diseases in theory.

Kyrie Irving is a millionaire who already has a championship ring. He cannot play basketball in his home cord because of that particular state or city’s rules. No one is saying he hast to take a Covid shot but you.

i don't get what you're saying. I didn't say Kyrie has to take a shot. The local laws asks Kyrie to do so if he wants to play. What I am saying is that Kyrie is a moron, and I dont see much logical reasoning behind not taking the vaccine. I would also prefer if we had a federal vaccine mandate (outside of a doctor's official recommendation not to), cuz its the obvious right thing to do.

Thank you for responding.

When I was in the military I had to take all kind of shots and there was no choice involved.

Years later I got diagnosed with a mental health disorder. There are medications which are prescribed and some have very bad side effects and have even made me worse off. I'm glad the police cannot arrest me when a med level might not be what it should be according to a doctor who may or may not be right.

I think it is stupid to assume the vaccine will not have long-term effects and that it is right for everyone and I could not disagree more about a federal mandate for the shot.

Suppose someone generates a virus in a lab and they believe they have the Cure. What you're saying is they get rich because the government will make everyone get that shot.

A logical reason is that not everyone is getting a shot just like Bradley Beal. Many PhD candidates are not getting the shot. I know someone right now who is sick because of the covid shot side effects.. What if he dies? The girl I went to high school might lose her husband.

Thank you for sharing your opinion

[FNQ]

I think it is stupid to assume the vaccine will not have long-term effects

But you have no idea of the science. You're just saying that in general, with no basis, which is followed by...

A logical reason is that not everyone is getting a shot just like Bradley Beal. Many PhD candidates are not getting the shot. I know someone right now who is sick because of the covid shot side effects.. What if he dies? The girl I went to high school might lose her husband.

Stuff like this. Many PhD candidates are not getting the shot? MDs? Because its not them. You know someone who's sick, and it's because only of the covid shot? How? What exactly are they dying from, and why is the vaccine the catalyst?

What you are putting forward isn't an argument. Its general things that you are tying to something you clearly don't like. I saw your explanation before and thought it was being earnest, your post here makes me think it isn't.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I am impressed I am impressed even if I think you're saying I am disingenuous.

No doubt I just gave a bunch of generalities and didn't really look at this specifically.

Since I have said a lot Now I will be brief here and say you're entitled to your opinion.... sincerely thank you for considering what I said even if you don't agree with it.

[FNQ]

I am impressed I am impressed even if I think you're saying I am disingenuous.

No doubt I just gave a bunch of generalities and didn't really look at this specifically.

Since I have said a lot Now I will be brief here and say you're entitled to your opinion.... sincerely thank you for considering what I said even if you don't agree with it.

No problem man and I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid. I'm saying that if you look at the vaccines, specifically the mRNA ones, you'll see that any long-term effects would have to be noticeable soon, because the mRNA that's injected dissolves quickly, and the message it relays (create spike proteins so your body destroys them) tends to fade over time. The only long-term effects have to be borne of the myocarditis, and doctors have been very careful about people with heart disease and recommending the vaccine to them.

It sounds like you have very valid reasons to be wary of the government mandating anything medical, but the government doesnt include the vast majority of doctors, specifically virologists and epidemiologists, who are all agreeing with that and are proving it in studies - some completed and up for viewing, some in progress for longer term, but so far its all been safe.

I'm also saying that a lot of people come here, leading with "I'm vaccinated, but..." and then throw out a lot of misinformation. So its hard to tell who's being earnest about what they are saying and who's not. But the facts are this: you either have the great, great supermajority of virologists/epidemiologists lying to you in unison in the exact same way, or you have the sliver of other dissenters who all have their own ideas about whats safe, what's a cure, what's bad about the vaccine.

And don't just believe me. If you know an anti-vaxxer person, ask them specifically why. And if you find another, ask them too. Its very rare that they are going to say the same thing. I get this is a basketball forum, and we all have some very uneducated opinions about something some of the time, but when that transfer over to medical, in a way that is detrimental to public health, its just not the time to be contrarian for contrarian's sake. There are studies to look over (and there's a new site in development that is supposed to be Cliffs notes for studies soon) and I'm sure there will be people familiar enough with how to translate them from the super science-y bluster into something easier to digest