If Push Came to Shove... (Irving Trade)

[MrDollarBills]

I'm not wrong... because i stated none of what you reference.

1) Mandate is not law. they are 2 very different things
2) Mandates can remove certain freedoms, but they do not have unilateral power to govern, and they still need to be constitutional and be inline with discrimination laws

For instance (extreme example for clarity) you cant mandate that all chinese people get vaccinated and not apply it to veryone. you cant mandate everyone who is not vacicnated has to pay fines or you garnish their savings accounts.

The mandate is in align in alot of spots. it is complete garbage in others.

taking peoples tenure, pensions, and it not being applied to everyone is kind of BS. it should be all public buildings, not just the ones you arent scared of (i.e. police/fire)

it should apply to everyone, not just NY athletes. if it is about safety, why can Beal play at Barclays but not kyrie?

Im not saying all mandates are garbage or even that one isnt needed. but the NYC one stinks.

Mandates to protect public health and safety are 100% legal. That was the point. No one is being thrown in prison for it, but no one should be guaranteed employment or entertainment in a public setting if they can't abide by health and safety protocols. Your employer doesn't have to tolerate you if you're not abiding by rules put in place to protect public health. Your personal freedoms are not greater than the greater good.

You may think its crap, but it's being done to compel people to do the right thing, and its working because the vaccination rates are going up in NYC.

And again...if someone is an antivaxxer and can no longer be a nurse or a teacher, good. Who the hell wants an antivaxxer teaching children or tending to patients? It's disgusting.

re: Cops....if they want to die, thats on them. Covid is ravaging NYC cops. The police union is refusing a mandate while their members die. Doesn't seem smart to me.

In other words what MDB is saying -" you have a car, you can do whatever you want with it until it's parked in your private parking area. Once you decide to drive it on the streets, you have to have DL, insurance, registration etc. Those rules being enforced for reasons ".

I can't believe we as adults are even having this discussion. Mandates are literally apart of life. Always have been. Only til now when it asks antivax people to not be selfish ass holes does it become an issue.

[MrDollarBills]

Kyrie himself is now on record saying that he's not anti-vaxx (I don't believe him) so he's trying to publicly distance himself anti-vax movement. That being said, his message of "personal choice" has a ton of support from his peers (many of whom are vaccinated), and others (anti vaxxers and such). I'm sure Adam Silver hates all this but I don't think its at a point where he ends up being black balled from the league. What Ben Simmons has done is probably more damaging to the league as you have a young NBA "star" requesting a trade out of a contender and not reporting to them in the 2nd year of his max extension (until now). That will have bigger consequences with the next CBA negotiations.

Ben Simmons having a dispute with his team and doing a mini hold out is a drop in the bucket compared to the chaos Kyrie is causing. What Kyrie is using his platform for is going way beyond basketball. No one will care in a week that Simmons missed training camp.

And whether he likes it or not, he is being embraced by antivaxxers for his position. He wants to have it both ways, but he won't.

LEt me get this straight....

Simmons refuse to join his team, even though he is allowed to. trashes his teammates, says he will never play their again and his teammates hate him.

Kyrie cant join the team by law, expresses he wants to play, never dissed a teammate, and his teammates support him.

Yet somehow Kyrie caused more Chaos?

When Simmons ends up being the topic of discussion on CNN for negative reasons like Kyrie was last night, wake me up.

[MrDollarBills]

Disagree, read this story:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2949384-sources-kyrie-irving-ben-simmons-sagas-could-lead-to-nba-rule-changes

Bulk of the article talks about issues relating to Ben Simmons scenario and what kind of effect it can have in next CBA talks.

CBA talks are greater than a public health crisis?

Dude, don't be dense, that is not at all what I said, don't be putting words in my mouth. You're talking about blackballed from the league, I'm talking from league's perspective. Kyrie is not restricted from a league mandate, he's restricted because of local city law.

Kyrie is the one garnering negative national media attention for being an antivaxxer and wanting to be the voice of antivaxxers. From the league's perspective, you think Simmons being a disgruntled teammate is worse than what Kyrie is doing right now?

[gigantes]

Ben Simmons having a dispute with his team and doing a mini hold out is a drop in the bucket compared to the chaos Kyrie is causing. What Kyrie is using his platform for is going way beyond basketball. No one will care in a week that Simmons missed training camp.

And whether he likes it or not, he is being embraced by antivaxxers for his position. He wants to have it both ways, but he won't.

LEt me get this straight....

Simmons refuse to join his team, even though he is allowed to. trashes his teammates, says he will never play their again and his teammates hate him.

Kyrie cant join the team by law, expresses he wants to play, never dissed a teammate, and his teammates support him.

Yet somehow Kyrie caused more Chaos?

When Simmons ends up being the topic of discussion on CNN for negative reasons like Kyrie was last night, wake me up.

At least Simmons and the Sixers are finding a way forward, however ugly things got.

Meanwhile, Kyrie's in the driver's seat to pursue his second championship with a stacked roster, and instead he's taking a completely pointless stand, negatively impacting anyone foolish enough to follow him, and picking up a massive paycheck to do squat, while most people in the States are essentially wage slaves living in fraught financial circumstances.

The least he could in this situation is to donate a good chunk of his bogus salary to some kind of safety net charity, which would actually help people he's theoretically 'standing up for.'

Guy's such a damn tool.

[DarkXaero]

CBA talks are greater than a public health crisis?

Dude, don't be dense, that is not at all what I said, don't be putting words in my mouth. You're talking about blackballed from the league, I'm talking from league's perspective. Kyrie is not restricted from a league mandate, he's restricted because of local city law.

Kyrie is the one garnering negative national media attention for being an antivaxxer and wanting to be the voice of antivaxxers. From the league's perspective, you think Simmons being a disgruntled teammate is worse than what Kyrie is doing right now?

I'm not sure what you've been paying attention to but Ben Simmons has been garnering widespread negative attention since Sixers got eliminated by the Hawks. What Simmons has done points at a difficult problem in the league infrastructure. And it's not about which one is worse, they're both bad issues for the NBA to deal with in different ways. You're downplaying the Simmons situation which is not right.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I wont be surprised if Kyrie gets bored and decides get vaccinated in February or some ****.

No sense in trading him for nothing. No interest in Simmons at all. Hes unplayable in the playoffs.

[MrDollarBills]

Dude, don't be dense, that is not at all what I said, don't be putting words in my mouth. You're talking about blackballed from the league, I'm talking from league's perspective. Kyrie is not restricted from a league mandate, he's restricted because of local city law.

Kyrie is the one garnering negative national media attention for being an antivaxxer and wanting to be the voice of antivaxxers. From the league's perspective, you think Simmons being a disgruntled teammate is worse than what Kyrie is doing right now?

I'm not sure what you've been paying attention to but Ben Simmons has been garnering widespread negative attention since Sixers got eliminated by the Hawks. What Simmons has done points at a difficult problem in the league infrastructure. And it's not about which one is worse, they're both bad issues for the NBA to deal with in different ways. You're downplaying the Simmons situation which is not right.

Ben Simmons holding out from reporting to training camp versus Kyrie, a prominent NBA figure who is popular and polarizing, refusing to get vaccinated, getting banned from the team and openly becoming a "voice" for the antivax movement that is killing people by the thousands in the United States is not even remotely in the same hemisphere.

[HardenGoat]

I watched the IG and his ramblings are quite bizarre. He uses phrases like “messenger from god” and “my people”. He believes he is at a higher level. He also makes his choices based on “his feelings”. He can never be wrong since “feelings are good, human” and he serves as his own judge and jury. He is extremely self centered. Never does he mention scientific evidence as a basis to guide a decision this impactful with thousands watching in the midst of a historic pandemic. This is troubling to say the least. It shows a complete lack of empathy. Fear and anxiety are a hallmark for poor decision making when I see mental disorders. Another flag here is the fact he believed he would be getting a pass to play despite being warned a mandate was in place. He fully expected special treatment. All of the above is consistent with Narcissistic personality disorder. Iam not saying he doesn’t or hasn’t done charitable things, they often do, but his lack of empathy got fully exposed in this instance. He just can’t get past himself when something as simple as a vaccination could help others do the same despite their fears.

[GTR11]

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[Whiskey Slick]

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We had a championship team with a BIG 3 and this nut-case blew it all to smithereens over a vaccine.

The first two Covid Vaccines I received, there wasn't even a mandate. I took them of my own free will because A) I'm not an idiot, B) I'm not suicidal, and C) I'm not a selfish SOB who would put other peoples lives in danger.

And it was a hassle to get the first two. I spent hours on the phone trying to make appointments.

AND I STILL DIDN'T BLOW IT OFF!!!

Conversely I'm sure the Nets team doctors/trainers would come right to practice to give Kyrie his shot.

This feels like hitting the mega-millions lottery and losing the ticket.

I can't imagine there has ever been or ever will be a more hated Net than Kyrie. He's so toxic and un-tradable.

That's what makes it so much worse. If we saw this coming last year, we could have traded him for equal value.

BUT NOW we can't even trade him for a carton of official NBA basketballs.

One of these days, when he's old and gray, it will occur to him that he had a chance to to be a BIG PART of a BIG 3 that won the first "NBA" Championship for his hometown Brooklyn Nets, and he chose to BLOW IT UP instead.

Then he's gonna realize why he's the Anti-Dr. J (most beloved Net of all-time).

Instead he is the most reviled Net of all-time. When most Nets fans mention his name it will be with contempt.

[MrDollarBills]

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so KD and Harden are done with him.

imagine that? so all that stuff about "empowerment" and off the court stuff mattering more went right out of the window once Kyrie went full blown crazy town last night.

[harlem_ball]

I wont be surprised if Kyrie gets bored and decides get vaccinated in February or some ****.

No sense in trading him for nothing. No interest in Simmons at all. Hes unplayable in the playoffs.

yea, i feel the same way. it will be an anti-climactic conclusion and Kyrie will come in with fresh legs, just in time to jumpstart the teams success. He will be called a hero

[Whiskey Slick]

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so KD and Harden are done with him.

imagine that? so all that stuff about "empowerment" and off the court stuff mattering more went right out of the window once Kyrie went full blown crazy town last night.

How would you feel if he was in your ear trying to convince you to build a SUPER TEAM in Brooklyn, SO YOU DID, then the first year he went MIA every time he felt like it, probably costing us home court advantage in the east, then the second year, BEFORE IT EVEN STARTED, decided to ignore the Vax mandate and flat-out quit on the team he at least in part convinced you to join?

Not saying they would or should do it. I don't condone violence. But I'm sure KD and/or Harden want to deck him.

[Gooner]

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The snake is already turning his back on Kyrie, typical. He will regret it, as he is no alpha, he can't lead a team to the championship. Especially wit that puppett that he signed- Steve N ash. An insecure person like that is predictably being offended by this, because he is desperate to be an alpha that everybody listens to. But Kyrie doesn't give a damn about anyone's opinion, he is not this little brother that KD wants him to be. Kyrie should ask for a trade, it's best for both parties. Let KD go, he has always been a snake, he doesn't need him.

[TheNetsFan]

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The snake is already turning his back on Kyrie, typical. He will regret it, as he is no alpha, he can't lead a team to the championship. Especially wit that puppett that he signed- Steve N ash. An insecure person like that is predictably being offended by this, because he is desperate to be an alpha that everybody listens to. But Kyrie doesn't give a damn about anyone's opinion, he is not this little brother that KD wants him to be. Kyrie should ask for a trade, it's best for both parties. Let KD go, he has always been a snake, he doesn't need him.

KD just wants to hoop. Harden is the alpha. It's been reported as such multiple times.

[MrDollarBills]

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so KD and Harden are done with him.

imagine that? so all that stuff about "empowerment" and off the court stuff mattering more went right out of the window once Kyrie went full blown crazy town last night.

How would you feel if he was in your ear trying to convince you to build a SUPER TEAM in Brooklyn, SO YOU DID, then the first year he went MIA every time he felt like it, probably costing us home court advantage in the east, then the second year, BEFORE IT EVEN STARTED, decided to ignore the Vax mandate and flat-out quit on the team he at least in part convinced you to join?

Not saying they would or should do it. I don't condone violence. But I'm sure KD and/or Harden want to deck him.

I don't think it's serious enough to warrant hitting him.

But I definitely understand not being on speaking terms after that. Out of anyone, Kyrie did KD dirty and Marks did KD a huge solid by getting Harden here. No wonder KD signed his extension so quickly.

[MrDollarBills]

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The snake is already turning his back on Kyrie, typical. He will regret it, as he is no alpha, he can't lead a team to the championship. Especially wit that puppett that he signed- Steve N ash. An insecure person like that is predictably being offended by this, because he is desperate to be an alpha that everybody listens to. But Kyrie doesn't give a damn about anyone's opinion, he is not this little brother that KD wants him to be. Kyrie should ask for a trade, it's best for both parties. Let KD go, he has always been a snake, he doesn't need him.

I hope Kyrie does ask for a trade and gets it because that would mean your dumb, antivaxxer ass stops coming on this board.

[Gooner]

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The snake is already turning his back on Kyrie, typical. He will regret it, as he is no alpha, he can't lead a team to the championship. Especially wit that puppett that he signed- Steve N ash. An insecure person like that is predictably being offended by this, because he is desperate to be an alpha that everybody listens to. But Kyrie doesn't give a damn about anyone's opinion, he is not this little brother that KD wants him to be. Kyrie should ask for a trade, it's best for both parties. Let KD go, he has always been a snake, he doesn't need him.

I hope Kyrie does ask for a trade and gets it because that would mean your dumb, antivaxxer ass stops coming on this board.

Is that supposed to be an insult? I take it as a compliment.

[Prokorov]

[
My body my choice is ignorant period. Whatever the f*** you want to make it to be it is f*** ignorant. Moreover it been politicized by anti Vax group around the world. Kyrie magnified it to another level because he's public figure.

Shouting "its ignorant" i a curse riddled tirade doesnt make something ignorant. In fact, just screaming "its ignorant" with 0 insight on why you are claiming its ignorant, is closer to ignorance then "my body my choice". Which is far from some radical concept.

What part of he set his teammates up you didn't understand? I mean how hard it is? Team, I'm talking about Nash, Marks and rest of them? What part you didn't understand? ]/quote]

The "set up" part

3 - lmao you just special man. I made mistake taking you as an adult. You just special kind.

If you are going to imply i'm acting childish, after you just cursed and insulted me. I mean, you are being pretty hypocritical here:

1) You call someone else ignorant, and follow it with the explination of "its just F-word ignorant".

2) you curse and name call and then say im not an adult

[Prokorov]

Plenty. My body my choice is more than enough for me to understand how ignorant and hypocritical he is.

Two, team -> teammates. I'm a fan.

Three, how it's going to affect unions in general going forward. Politicians already involved.

I mean I can go on and on because it's a chain reaction. He is politicizing stuff he has no clue about.

1) "my body my choice" is not some insane concept, regardless of if you agree or not.

I get where you’re coming from when approaching this issue from a certain very specific angle, but “my body, my choice” is a non-sequitur here, and moreover it is heuristic, and therefore it’s necessary for guys like Kyrie to examine - and elucidate - the calculus of this specific pandemic as he sees it, and why “my body my choice” trumps other social consideration.

I haven’t seen him do this yet.

Agree, it would be alot easier to discuss the validity/hypocrisy of his stance if he gave us more insight into it... outside of just "The government shouldnt be able to tell me to put whats in my body" which while not some radical thought, also doesn't give us much on how he arrived to fall into that camp. There are some understandable reasons, there are some irrational reasons.

I can see why he wouldn't though, it doesn't really help. anything he says that makes sense is going to be called "spin" or a "lie" and anything that doesnt is just going to get mocked. And honestly, he doesnt really owe that to anyone.

My point was less that he is right or has good reasons and more that his stance in general isnt some off the wall looney toons stance as many have speculated (microchipped anti-vaxx, pandemic denier)