Hal14 wrote:playa-hater wrote:Hal14 wrote:IMO the 3 different ways Tatum could take his game to the next level is either:
a) becoming a better play maker for others
b) improving consistency. As we all know, he has moments here and there we he absolutely goes bonkers, takes over a game for stretches and looks like a top 3 player in the world. But a) he doesn't do that frequently enough and b) there's also stretches where he simply is not that great, where he forces shots, half ass%s it on D, just doesn't go as hard..
c) Going from good to great defensively. He's definitely a good defender. And shows occasional flashes of being great. But for the most part you watch him and you see a good defender but not a great or elite one. You look at a lot of the guys who have been a top 5 player in the NBA over the years and many of them have been truly elite defenders (LeBron, Jordan, Duncan, Garnett, Olajuwon, Russell, Giannis, Kawhi, etc.)
I like that Tatum is being self reflective and he is acknowledging certain things that can take him to the next level. We're seeing these quotes here about. him wanting to be a better play maker, and a couple weeks ago Tatum was quoted as saying that one of his goals is to make the all defensive team. So clearly he is aware of points A and C above and is focused on both of them.
agree with all. Just wondering how possible it is for a True Go-to player like Tatum or anyone else for that matter to be a great defender. Players like Kawhi was a great defender when he was on SA. Not so much after he became the "man". Pippen was a great defender, but almost never had to carry the burden of a Franchise scorer. Lebron and Kobe played great when they had to, playoffs or in 4th quarters, but rarely stayed locked in on defense and coasted at times. Giannis may be the only exception that is a great offensive and defensive player.
I think Tatum has "top level" defensive capabilities. and is young. Just think that is a lot to ask someone. But maybe he can..
Kawhi was "the man" in Toronto offensively, and a top 5 defender in the league as well. Because he was so good on both sides of the ball, was a huge reason why they won the title.
In addition to Kawhi, others who were top 5-10 in the league (fort at least some of their career) on both offense and defense:
Giannis
Olajuwon
Jordan
David Robinson
Chris Paul
Jerry West
Bill Russell (not the greatest scorer but there's more to offense than just scoring. He was a top 5 offensive player during his era along with Wilt, west, baylor, Big O)
Wilt
Karl Malone
Gary Payton
Duncan
Garnett
Anthony Davis
Lebron and Kobe (both have had times when they were definitely considered top 10 defenders in the league)
Kareem
There's others, this is just off the top of my head. For the most though, you're right - the truly elite scorers usually aren't also a top 10 defender in the league as well.
I keep saying people don't really know how much it takes to be a good/great offender AND defender. The best offenders in the NBA aren't the defenders and the best defenders aren't offenders (sans a few greats).
People who have the ability to be top defenders get worse when they become better on offense, Avery Bradley was at his best when he couldn't offend worth a dang early on. Smart is not good offensively but the better he gets IMO the worst he gets on defense, of course he's still amazing on defense but he's also not good offensively to this day. I thought he was better offensively last season but his defense slipped.
Pat Beverly, Smart, Gobert etc are examples on D, then name pretty much all the top offenders and they stink on D. It's not that they can't offend or defend, they can't be great at both at the same time, so they choose the thing they are better at and go with it. Offense is easier IMO, so most guys go that route. The AD, LBJ, KL's of the world are the few who can excel at both. You could say Giannis too but really giannis is only starting to make shots that would show that defense saps your offense, he's still not that good at shooting, could be why he's still elite in D.
Look at Simmons, he can score and is an elite defender, but he doesn't shoot because unlike the Smart, Giannis, and Beverly's of the world he is afraid to be seen as bad at something. There are a lot of offenders who could be very good on D if they choose it but they also wouldn't be as good on offense and they know it. IMO it's no coincidence that the better the league has become at offense the worse defense has become (defense rules even skew to make it so).
