How did rim protection in the 90s compare to today?

[Harry Garris]

Bull ****.

You know, I really don't understand your aversion to stats. They're helpful to understand things. But here you go:

Last year teams attempted 21.8 free throws per game on average.
In the 1990 season it was 27.9. Every year in the 90's teams attempted at least 25 free throws per game on average, with a low of 25.8 in 1999.
Source: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

We are currently at an all time low for fouls called and free throws attempted in NBA history. I know you don't like to hear that because it doesn't fit your narrative that modern superstars foul bait and fool the silly NBA refs all the time and the stars of the 90s would never do such a thing. But it's true.

Neat, how about you put that in context to drives to the rim and open layups.

FTA /= worse rim protection.

If anything more free throws likely means better rim protection because there wasn't a free layup and they had to earn it at the line which is still a thing many players have as a weakness (see our reigning champion multiple time MVP, even 3 point shooters like Jaylen Brown, ect.)

You can't just list stats and think it means you're making a right conclusion. You have to think of how you're using those stats and the implications of them. Stats don't lie, but the conclusion humans draw from them can easily be foolish.

It's not really better rim protection though. It was just way easier to protect the rim back then when players weren't spacing the floor. The individual players aren't necessarily better at shutting down drives, there were just more of them in the paint so you could clog the lane with bodies.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

40-year-old Michael Jordan averaged 20.0 points, 6.1 rebounds, .445 shooting, in 82 games.....when the NBA allowed zone defense AND hand-checking.

[NBA Sheady]

In the 90's there was no defensive 3 seconds rule. The Eatons of the league just stood under the rim.

[Harry Garris]

40-year-old Michael Jordan averaged 20.0 points, 6.1 rebounds, .445 shooting, in 82 games.....when the NBA allowed zone defense AND hand-checking.

Well yeah he was the best player ever. Of course he could still manage to be a decent NBA player at age 40. It's worth noting though that those points came very inefficiently since he wasn't getting to the line much and didn't shoot threes. So despite MJ putting up stats, the team wasn't very good.

[K3nny Pow3rs]

40-year-old Michael Jordan averaged 20.0 points, 6.1 rebounds, .445 shooting, in 82 games.....when the NBA allowed zone defense AND hand-checking.

Well yeah he was the best player ever. Of course he could still manage to be a decent NBA player at age 40. It's worth noting though that those points came very inefficiently since he wasn't getting to the line much and didn't shoot threes. So despite MJ putting up stats, the team wasn't very good.

But he's 40-years-old, and playing with one of the weakest rosters in the NBA. You aren't seriously holding that 37-45 record against him, are you?
In fact the Wizards roster was even less talented the previous year, and they still were 26-21 before Jordan's knees gave out, and had beaten west-leading Kings and east-leading Nets 98-76 (thanks to Jordan's 45 points, including 22 points in a row on Jason Kidd's head).
The reason why they weren't as impressive the next year is because Stackhouse disrupted the chemistry, not because of Jordan attempting less free-throws or refusing to chuck threes....

In the 90's there was no defensive 3 seconds rule. The Eatons of the league just stood under the rim.

Its amazing how many folks here aren't aware of that. It had more impact on the NBA than any other rule change.

[Johnny Bball]

I can understand the thinking behind the idea that players would take it to the rack less knowing that they'd be fouled hard if they did... But that's not really what happened because teams shot a ton of free throws back then. Way more than they do now.

Bull ****.

You know, I really don't understand your aversion to stats. They're helpful to understand things. But here you go:

Last year teams attempted 21.8 free throws per game on average.
In the 1990 season it was 27.9. Every year in the 90's teams attempted at least 25 free throws per game on average, with a low of 25.8 in 1999.
Source: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

We are currently at an all time low for fouls called and free throws attempted in NBA history. I know you don't like to hear that because it doesn't fit your narrative that modern superstars foul bait and fool the silly NBA refs all the time and the stars of the 90s would never do such a thing. But it's true.

What’s your aversion to be honest? “A ton more” is bs.

[meekrab]

Well, it had this. So, better.

Yeah, you'd get ejected for taunting somebody that way today.

[NBA Sheady]

In the 90's there was no defensive 3 seconds rule. The Eatons of the league just stood under the rim.

Its amazing how many folks here aren't aware of that. It had more impact on the NBA than any other rule change.

Pretty sure the NBA is the only league in the world where 3 in the key applies to defenders.

[Capn'O]

A lot more focused on individual defenders than team schemes. There were some great individual defenders in the 90s (Mutombo, Ewing, Hakeem, DRob, Mourning, even Shaq) but they couldn't guard everyone.

[Nazrmohamed]

I can understand the thinking behind the idea that players would take it to the rack less knowing that they'd be fouled hard if they did... But that's not really what happened because teams shot a ton of free throws back then. Way more than they do now.

Yeah I agree. If anything guys who were inclined to dunk dunked hard. I remember lots of Russell Westbrook type dunks. Not necessarily as athletic cuz today's athletes are just on a different level but with that level of anger and conviction saw allot of guys like that cuz hey, you had to.

[The Rebel]

It's a lot better today - way more advanced. Why do you think threes are so popular now? Defenses today have become so good at keeping specific targeted people away from the rim. Between Thibs and the 08 Celtics strong side overloads and the shrinking the floor of the Spurs and the To 2.9 stuff that's ubiquitous now - it's impossible to win today if you can't make threes.

We can basically thank guys like LeBron for that.

3s are so popular now because it is easier to get open, it is easier to move, shooters are heavily protected, and moving screens are allowed.

[dhsilv2]

I would say is the 90s is better. The GOAT Alonzo mourning was around.

But in all seriousness I would lean towards the 90’s as there were more 7 footers and you don’t need to be as athletic to be a good rim protector. It’s more about timing.
But the top tier rim protectors in the 90’s are far better than today

Blocks between last year and 1998 are down .7 per 100 and free throw attempts are down by about 8 per 100. So for that .7 more blocks effectively there were 4 fouls on shot attempts.

[dhsilv2]

In the 90's, rim protection was not only shot blocking (think Mutumbo) but also intimidation (think Mahorn). There is nothing like that in today's candy-*** league.

^^^^

To ignore the impact of removing physicality to the game is to be blind to saying "the dollar is worth less today than 20 years ago" and no be aware of a simple thing like inflation.

Like it's that simple.

You could put the same rules in the 90s as today but if they still call it like a softer than no touch football game than it will end up being worse.

They call far less fouls today....like 20% less. These intimidators didn't intimidate people. These 1 in a 100 idiotic fouls that we see highlights of were really that....extremely rare and not normal at all.

[dhsilv2]

Bull ****.

You know, I really don't understand your aversion to stats. They're helpful to understand things. But here you go:

Last year teams attempted 21.8 free throws per game on average.
In the 1990 season it was 27.9. Every year in the 90's teams attempted at least 25 free throws per game on average, with a low of 25.8 in 1999.
Source: https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html

We are currently at an all time low for fouls called and free throws attempted in NBA history. I know you don't like to hear that because it doesn't fit your narrative that modern superstars foul bait and fool the silly NBA refs all the time and the stars of the 90s would never do such a thing. But it's true.

Neat, how about you put that in context to drives to the rim and open layups.

FTA /= worse rim protection.

If anything more free throws likely means better rim protection because there wasn't a free layup and they had to earn it at the line which is still a thing many players have as a weakness (see our reigning champion multiple time MVP, even 3 point shooters like Jaylen Brown, ect.)

You can't just list stats and think it means you're making a right conclusion. You have to think of how you're using those stats and the implications of them. Stats don't lie, but the conclusion humans draw from them can easily be foolish.

1998 dunks made up 5.3% of field goals. dunks made up 5.4% last year. Field goal percentages are up slightly 67.5% vs 62.8%. Shots at the rim are down 28.6% vs 25.4%

Doesn't seem that there's been a huge change beyond the free throw attempts. The difference in the 0-3 field goal percentage is likely MUCH more tied to less post ups than anything else.

[SelfishPlayer]

In the 90's, rim protection was not only shot blocking (think Mutumbo) but also intimidation (think Mahorn). There is nothing like that in today's candy-*** league.

^^^^

To ignore the impact of removing physicality to the game is to be blind to saying "the dollar is worth less today than 20 years ago" and no be aware of a simple thing like inflation.

Like it's that simple.

You could put the same rules in the 90s as today but if they still call it like a softer than no touch football game than it will end up being worse.

They call far less fouls today....like 20% less. These intimidators didn't intimidate people. These 1 in a 100 idiotic fouls that we see highlights of were really that....extremely rare and not normal at all.

Teams in the 90's still operated under the philosophy of "no easy ones" so players about to get a layup or dunk were sent to the free throw line instead. The equivalent of that today would be teams scheming to make opponents shoot long twos. That and the growth of the three point shot contribute to perhaps there being fewer fouls called today even though it was tougher to get a call in the 90s.

[dhsilv2]

^^^^

To ignore the impact of removing physicality to the game is to be blind to saying "the dollar is worth less today than 20 years ago" and no be aware of a simple thing like inflation.

Like it's that simple.

You could put the same rules in the 90s as today but if they still call it like a softer than no touch football game than it will end up being worse.

They call far less fouls today....like 20% less. These intimidators didn't intimidate people. These 1 in a 100 idiotic fouls that we see highlights of were really that....extremely rare and not normal at all.

Teams in the 90's still operated under the philosophy of "no easy ones" so players about to get a layup or dunk were sent to the free throw line instead. The equivalent of that today would be teams scheming to make opponents shoot long twos. That and the growth of the three point shot contribute to perhaps there being fewer fouls called today even though it was tougher to get a call in the 90s.

It was WAY easier to get a call in the 90's man.

This insane misinformation has GOT to stop. Look, guards get way more calls today dribbling on the outside, but in the 90's team would just go inside and get a foul so often it was stupid, and HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO, these were NOT HARD FOULS! Offensive players in the 90's were actively going to the basket and LOOKING for contact, just like the "foul baiting" we see today, and they were getting the calls MORE often.

Sorry for all the bold but this seem like a constant point of contention and it's just freaking wrong! Today inside the same fouls called in the 90's aren't called today. Post players can get mauled (see harden's post defense) and they never get a foul. At the rim as others have explained the ideas of verticality, if you go straight up you aren't fouling wasn't like it is today. Guys would just run into the post players and get 2 free throws. The offensive players initiated the contact just like today...for some reason it was acceptable to get a foul by running into a guy at the rim, but it's not to do what 3 point shooters do today (being fair the 90's foul hunting was harder to understand for a casual fan than today).

[SelfishPlayer]

They call far less fouls today....like 20% less. These intimidators didn't intimidate people. These 1 in a 100 idiotic fouls that we see highlights of were really that....extremely rare and not normal at all.

Teams in the 90's still operated under the philosophy of "no easy ones" so players about to get a layup or dunk were sent to the free throw line instead. The equivalent of that today would be teams scheming to make opponents shoot long twos. That and the growth of the three point shot contribute to perhaps there being fewer fouls called today even though it was tougher to get a call in the 90s.

It was WAY easier to get a call in the 90's man.

This insane misinformation has GOT to stop. Look, guards get way more calls today dribbling on the outside, but in the 90's team would just go inside and get a foul so often it was stupid, and HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO, these were NOT HARD FOULS! Offensive players in the 90's were actively going to the basket and LOOKING for contact, just like the "foul baiting" we see today, and they were getting the calls MORE often.

Sorry for all the bold but this seem like a constant point of contention and it's just freaking wrong! Today inside the same fouls called in the 90's aren't called today. Post players can get mauled (see harden's post defense) and they never get a foul. At the rim as others have explained the ideas of verticality, if you go straight up you aren't fouling wasn't like it is today. Guys would just run into the post players and get 2 free throws. The offensive players initiated the contact just like today...for some reason it was acceptable to get a foul by running into a guy at the rim, but it's not to do what 3 point shooters do today (being fair the 90's foul hunting was harder to understand for a casual fan than today).

I disagree with your perspective. Scoring on the inside is much easier today from the rules down to the philosophy. There is no such thing as a statement hard foul around the rim early in the game to establish "no easy ones." Defenders around the rim these days are constantly seen trying to avoid "cheap ones," as in cheap fouls.

[dhsilv2]

Teams in the 90's still operated under the philosophy of "no easy ones" so players about to get a layup or dunk were sent to the free throw line instead. The equivalent of that today would be teams scheming to make opponents shoot long twos. That and the growth of the three point shot contribute to perhaps there being fewer fouls called today even though it was tougher to get a call in the 90s.

It was WAY easier to get a call in the 90's man.

This insane misinformation has GOT to stop. Look, guards get way more calls today dribbling on the outside, but in the 90's team would just go inside and get a foul so often it was stupid, and HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO, these were NOT HARD FOULS! Offensive players in the 90's were actively going to the basket and LOOKING for contact, just like the "foul baiting" we see today, and they were getting the calls MORE often.

Sorry for all the bold but this seem like a constant point of contention and it's just freaking wrong! Today inside the same fouls called in the 90's aren't called today. Post players can get mauled (see harden's post defense) and they never get a foul. At the rim as others have explained the ideas of verticality, if you go straight up you aren't fouling wasn't like it is today. Guys would just run into the post players and get 2 free throws. The offensive players initiated the contact just like today...for some reason it was acceptable to get a foul by running into a guy at the rim, but it's not to do what 3 point shooters do today (being fair the 90's foul hunting was harder to understand for a casual fan than today).

I disagree with your perspective. Scoring on the inside is much easier today from the rules down to the philosophy. There is no such thing as a statement hard foul around the rim early in the game to establish "no easy ones." Defenders around the rim these days are constantly seen trying to avoid "cheap ones," as in cheap fouls.

And yet the data shows there were 30% more free throws in the 90's. You're right that you don't see the EXTREMELY rare "statement" foul at the rim today because those are now ruled flagrant fouls, but the other 25 shooting fouls a game in the 90's weren't hard fouls.

POST players are completely mauled today and they simply don't get calls. At the rim guys will get calls much like historically but again verticality has come into play. The biggest difference for scoring inside today is that there are less bodies at the rim. That said dunks as a percentage of field goals remains roughly at 5% today as it was in the 90's.

[LakerLegend]

40-year-old Michael Jordan averaged 20.0 points, 6.1 rebounds, .445 shooting, in 82 games.....when the NBA allowed zone defense AND hand-checking.

5-8 Isaiah Thomas averaged 30 ppg in the modern era..

[DroseReturnChi]

Well, it had this. So, better.

yep miss old school mutombo with the swag. todays game has been deteriorated honestly i would have not watched if not for doncic. no one cares abt rim protection nowadays and the centers all suck too. 90s was truly the golden age of basketball.