Waive Watch: Gillespie and Perry waived

[Dalek]

If I'm the Raptors I'd waive David Johnson and give Isaac Bonga his two-way contract and then sign Dekker to the final roster spot.

Agreed, Bonga has shown more than David - honestly don't see why they took David. He just seems lost every time he's played in summer league and not much better in preseason.

I think comparing a guy like Bonga who has played 1800 minutes in the NBA versus David Johnson who has played a total of 75 minutes of SL and preseason ball is not a fair assessment.

From what I know of his college career and brief appearances is that he is a big physical guard who is not afraid to challenge shots at the rim and guard bigger players, and he can create a bit and his jumper for the most part looks good. His defensive awareness and overall focus in game is really up and down. It could be because he is overthinking things or he just needs more reps.

Obviously, if Johnson is considered a lost cause in what they have seen in practice I think they could waive him. However, I did read some media accounts that said he had a good camp.

I know a lot of the discussion about who Toronto should waive, but I don't see why Dalano Banton should have a guaranteed deal. I honestly feel less comfortable throwing him in an NBA game than all of the other guys. Banton has to be force-fed the ball to be effective at all, and he has almost no jumper. He should be full-time with the 905 whereas guys like Bonga, Champagnie, Johnson, Wainwright should be on the roster and playing with the team.

[mtcan]

I'm ready to put this "Sam Dekker is a Trump supporter" talk behind me...especially if the guy makes the team.

He did post this in response to what JR said...

Who cares if he did support Trump? I know a lot of good people who voted for him for one reason or another. It doesn’t mean they agreed with everything he did

And you know for a fact that Dekker voted for Trump?

I don't know if he voted for Trump or if he actually said what JR Smith said that he said.

I see that he has been getting along really well with his Raptors teammates...whether white, black, Japanese, etc.

I also see that the president of basketball operations...a black man, mind you...and one of the champions of racial equality and Black Lives Matter...he saw it fit to give Sam a chance at a roster spot. You don't think Masai would have known about JR's accusations prior to offering an invite to camp? If there is any inkling that Sam might be a racist...they would never have let him put pen to paper on a contract.

Truth is...JR has a history of being a bit of a stoner and does and says weird **** from time to time.

Who should I trust more? I choose to believe with Masai and the Raptors players over JR Smith.

I honestly don't care if it's Bonga or Dekker that makes the team but if it's Dekker...I hope this is the last we talk about JR Smith's comments while Sam is in Toronto.

[pingpongrac]

I understand most of where you're coming from and I wouldn't be upset with Bonga getting the nod, but how much is he really going to develop with our organization when he's playing in the G-League or planted on the bench behind Achiuwa, Banton, Barnes and OG for the next few years while they continue to develop too. We have other players that play similar positions as Bonga too but are older (Boucher, Siakam and Yuta) as well as some better younger guards (GTJ and Flynn) that also need to develop.

There is just absolutely no space/room for Bonga to get meaningful NBA minutes unless we're dealing with significant injuries and trades are made. Even now without Siakam and Boucher to start the season, Bonga would only be getting minutes in a blowout.

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Norman, Fred and Siakam were all 23 and still doing stints in the G-League (G-League champs for FVV and Siakam) and look at where they are now.
Nurse said some players will be be doing a lot of back-and-forth:
Banton(21), Champagnie(20) and Bonga(21) are all in the same situation. Let's have them win the G-League. Isaac is an international player, those are the kind of players we have to target and keep.

That's really not the same at all. When FVV/Powell/Siakam were playing together in the G-League (2016/17), we had clear openings for Siakam (Patterson was the only other PF until the Ibaka and Tucker trades) and Powell (who was generally the back-up SF/SG playing 15+ MPG). FVV was a bit of a home run that many didn't expect much from at first (especially considering he was playing behind Lowry, Joseph and Wright in his rookie season), but Siakam and Powell were being groomed to be key contributors in the future.

With Bonga, he plays the same position(s) as Barnes and OG and we have better young guards (GTJ and Flynn) as well as Banton (who is a lot like Bonga) to also develop. That doesn't even include Siakam/Boucher/Yuta (at least one of which will likely be a Raptor for a few more years) and Achiuwa. Bonga has a bit of an advantage over Siakam/Powell from 2016/17 because he can already play multiple positions, but that doesn't change the fact that he is fighting for minutes with most of the roster whereas Siakam/Powell were competing with 1 or 2 others.

[aligator]

Nurse says roster decisions don't need to be made till Monday.

[ash_k]

I understand most of where you're coming from and I wouldn't be upset with Bonga getting the nod, but how much is he really going to develop with our organization when he's playing in the G-League or planted on the bench behind Achiuwa, Banton, Barnes and OG for the next few years while they continue to develop too. We have other players that play similar positions as Bonga too but are older (Boucher, Siakam and Yuta) as well as some better younger guards (GTJ and Flynn) that also need to develop.

There is just absolutely no space/room for Bonga to get meaningful NBA minutes unless we're dealing with significant injuries and trades are made. Even now without Siakam and Boucher to start the season, Bonga would only be getting minutes in a blowout.

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Norman, Fred and Siakam were all 23 and still doing stints in the G-League (G-League champs for FVV and Siakam) and look at where they are now.
Nurse said some players will be be doing a lot of back-and-forth:
Banton(21), Champagnie(20) and Bonga(21) are all in the same situation. Let's have them win the G-League. Isaac is an international player, those are the kind of players we have to target and keep.

That's really not the same at all. When FVV/Powell/Siakam were playing together in the G-League (2016/17), we had clear openings for Siakam (Patterson was the only other PF until the Ibaka and Tucker trades) and Powell (who was generally the back-up SF/SG playing 15+ MPG). FVV was a bit of a home run that many didn't expect much from at first (especially considering he was playing behind Lowry, Joseph and Wright in his rookie season), but Siakam and Powell were being groomed to be key contributors in the future.

With Bonga, he plays the same position(s) as Barnes and OG and we have better young guards (GTJ and Flynn) as well as Banton (who is a lot like Bonga) to also develop. That doesn't even include Siakam/Boucher/Yuta (at least one of which will likely be a Raptor for a few more years) and Achiuwa. Bonga has a bit of an advantage over Siakam/Powell from 2016/17 because he can already play multiple positions, but that doesn't change the fact that he is fighting for minutes with most of the roster whereas Siakam/Powell were competing with 1 or 2 others.

You said it yourself - FVV was a bit of a home run that many didn't expect much from at first (especially considering he was playing behind Lowry, Joseph and Wright in his rookie season). We need to bet on more home runs, with some of the difficulties in FA signings.
Ultimately, the success of Banton(21), Champagnie(20) and Bonga(21) is not guaranteed:
But at their age and with so much potential (I am bigger on Champagnie than both Bonga and Banton) it would be foolish not to give it a shot by settling on older journeymen, knowing our developmental system .
At the same age(20-21), Norman, FVV and Pascal were nowhere near the level of Champagnie(20) and Bonga(21)

[Gold Dragon]

Lol it's hilarious seeing the battle of who wants Dekker vs Bonga.
…

I understand most of where you're coming from and I wouldn't be upset with Bonga getting the nod, but how much is he really going to develop with our organization when he's playing in the G-League or planted on the bench behind Achiuwa, Banton, Barnes and OG for the next few years while they continue to develop too. We have other players that play similar positions as Bonga too but are older (Boucher, Siakam and Yuta) as well as some better younger guards (GTJ and Flynn) that also need to develop.

There is just absolutely no space/room for Bonga to get meaningful NBA minutes unless we're dealing with significant injuries and trades are made. Even now without Siakam and Boucher to start the season, Bonga would only be getting minutes in a blowout.

I see Bonga getting more play than Dekker as a 15th man.

Our starters will likely eventually be Precious, Pascal, OG, Barnes, Fred.

Here is the list of 3 pt shooters we have on the bench: GTJ, Boucher, Dragic, Svi, Flynn maybe Yuta and Ish

Here is the list of long defenders who can handle and pass the ball: Banton who they probably don’t want to rush into the rotation, Yuta whose handles and passing just barely get him into this category.

So if we are serious about having a team with long defenders who can handle and pass, we actually need Bonga because we don’t have many bench options that can maintain that style of play once the starters come off or if one gets injured.

[RaptorPride]

When can we trade Dragic?

[aligator]

When can we trade Dragic?

Anytime

[OAKLEY_2]

If I'm the Raptors I'd waive David Johnson and give Isaac Bonga his two-way contract and then sign Dekker to the final roster spot.

Agreed, Bonga has shown more than David - honestly don't see why they took David. He just seems lost every time he's played in summer league and not much better in preseason.

I think comparing a guy like Bonga who has played 1800 minutes in the NBA versus David Johnson who has played a total of 75 minutes of SL and preseason ball is not a fair assessment.

From what I know of his college career and brief appearances is that he is a big physical guard who is not afraid to challenge shots at the rim and guard bigger players, and he can create a bit and his jumper for the most part looks good. His defensive awareness and overall focus in game is really up and down. It could be because he is overthinking things or he just needs more reps.

Obviously, if Johnson is considered a lost cause in what they have seen in practice I think they could waive him. However, I did read some media accounts that said he had a good camp.

I know a lot of the discussion about who Toronto should waive, but I don't see why Dalano Banton ndard contracts in a process that gives them the most reps.should have a guaranteed deal. I honestly feel less comfortable throwing him in an NBA game than all of the other guys. Banton has to be force-fed the ball to be effective at all, and he has almost no jumper. He should be full-time with the 905 whereas guys like Bonga, Champagnie, Johnson, Wainwright should be on the roster and playing with the team.

A deal is a deal. Johnson and Champagnie have two way deals so why mess with that if we want them to graduate to get development reps. Without those kind of reps Siakam and Fred do not do sweet squat.

Then you have to like a vet like Ish as versatile brick shthouse jacked defender and never say die player - regardless of his age.

When we get down to the final two as A vs. B it really is a case of what kind of Stanley role at an affordable price we are contemplating.

This just in Dekker has a hell of lot more experience than Bonga has over multiple leagues including the NBA. It would be a travesty to cut him on a team desperate for experience and lockeroom presence to say nothing of quality shooting. Bonga will be fine elsewhere and let's not overthink so much so we think we are giving away Giannis-like force as we have done with other flights of late bench intrigue and fancy.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I'm gonna go with a guy like Dekker. If the Raptors are struggling to score overall, I doubt Bonga would be an answer in any scenario.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Lol it's hilarious seeing the battle of who wants Dekker vs Bonga.
…

I understand most of where you're coming from and I wouldn't be upset with Bonga getting the nod, but how much is he really going to develop with our organization when he's playing in the G-League or planted on the bench behind Achiuwa, Banton, Barnes and OG for the next few years while they continue to develop too. We have other players that play similar positions as Bonga too but are older (Boucher, Siakam and Yuta) as well as some better younger guards (GTJ and Flynn) that also need to develop.

There is just absolutely no space/room for Bonga to get meaningful NBA minutes unless we're dealing with significant injuries and trades are made. Even now without Siakam and Boucher to start the season, Bonga would only be getting minutes in a blowout.

I see Bonga getting more play than Dekker as a 15th man.

Our starters will likely eventually be Precious, Pascal, OG, Barnes, Fred.

Here is the list of 3 pt shooters we have on the bench: GTJ, Boucher, Dragic, Svi, Flynn maybe Yuta and Ish

Here is the list of long defenders who can handle and pass the ball: Banton who they probably don’t want to rush into the rotation, Yuta whose handles and passing just barely get him into this category.

So if we are serious about having a team with long defenders who can handle and pass, we actually need Bonga because we don’t have many bench options that can maintain that style of play once the starters come off or if one gets injured.

list of long defenders also include Precious, Pascal, OG, Barnes, Boucher - whom all will play big minutes anyways. just saying.

[DreamTeam09]

Take dekker, he has the type of offence that can steal a quarter/half/game. If bongs wants to make the team we can sign him from the g league or he gets plucked

[pingpongrac]

I understand most of where you're coming from and I wouldn't be upset with Bonga getting the nod, but how much is he really going to develop with our organization when he's playing in the G-League or planted on the bench behind Achiuwa, Banton, Barnes and OG for the next few years while they continue to develop too. We have other players that play similar positions as Bonga too but are older (Boucher, Siakam and Yuta) as well as some better younger guards (GTJ and Flynn) that also need to develop.

There is just absolutely no space/room for Bonga to get meaningful NBA minutes unless we're dealing with significant injuries and trades are made. Even now without Siakam and Boucher to start the season, Bonga would only be getting minutes in a blowout.

I see Bonga getting more play than Dekker as a 15th man.

Our starters will likely eventually be Precious, Pascal, OG, Barnes, Fred.

Here is the list of 3 pt shooters we have on the bench: GTJ, Boucher, Dragic, Svi, Flynn maybe Yuta and Ish

Here is the list of long defenders who can handle and pass the ball: Banton who they probably don’t want to rush into the rotation, Yuta whose handles and passing just barely get him into this category.

So if we are serious about having a team with long defenders who can handle and pass, we actually need Bonga because we don’t have many bench options that can maintain that style of play once the starters come off or if one gets injured.

list of long defenders also include Precious, Pascal, OG, Barnes, Boucher - whom all will play big minutes anyways. just saying.

Yep, that's my point. That's already a lot of minutes eaten up by lengthy defenders that can handle and pass the ball (with the exception of Boucher and his limited passing ability), and most of which are locked up for multiple years. GTJ, Boucher, Dragic, Svi, Flynn and Yuta are mostly good three-point shooters, but GTJ is the only serious shooting threat of that bunch. Dekker gives us something we're lacking a bit of while Bonga just gives us our 7th or 8th lengthy defender that can handle the ball a bit, but he's also one of the worst shooters of the bunch.

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[DangerZone13]

I think Nurse likes Bonga as his Patty McCaw replacement.

And I think the other has gotta be Ish. He just feels so much like a Raptor, and seems like he'll be a rock in the locker room. He also gives the team a sturdy beast with great speed for his size to body dudes in physical games and wear them out. With OG, Achiuwa, and Ish - there's always someone who's going to make you work for every inch of space, that can also drag you out to the perimeter. We don't so much need height when our 6'8" guys have the wingspans of 7footers, but we do need strength and toughness.

I wish Dekker well, and hope he lands with a Western Conference team that gives him a good shot. We'll look at that one pre-season game a few times through the year, "man, we coulda used Dekker!", but I think he'd be a 6'9" Matt Thomas once teams realize they can embarrass his defense off the floor.

Also hoping the 905 can get Freddie G's rights from Memphis. He could be a late bloomer if he builds consistent confidence, which I think explains last season vs whatever saw this summer. I'm not sure why, but I was rooting extra hard for the big fella.

[JYD]

Svi shoots just as well as Dekker, but with more ability to put it on the floor and finish/create, and Svi's defense and effort are solid. Dekker may be a good shooter but on defense he's just not there for what we need. I'd keep Bonga, really like what I've seen and heard from him so far.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Svi shoots just as well as Dekker, but with more ability to put it on the floor and finish/create, and Svi's defense and effort are solid. Dekker may be a good shooter but on defense he's just not there for what we need. I'd keep Bonga, really like what I've seen and heard from him so far.

what if Svi gets hurt?

Bonga is a worst version of all our best players and we have many of them.

[JYD]

Svi shoots just as well as Dekker, but with more ability to put it on the floor and finish/create, and Svi's defense and effort are solid. Dekker may be a good shooter but on defense he's just not there for what we need. I'd keep Bonga, really like what I've seen and heard from him so far.

what if Svi gets hurt?

Bonga is a worst version of all our best players and we have many of them.

Dekker can't cut it on D anyway, like Matt Thomas couldn't.

Bonga has looked good in our system on both ends from where I sit. 6'8, plays under control, executes. I agree he could be compared to the new McCaw, not a direct comp but as a guy you want to take a look at because they can defend and show up learning the system quickly.

This is coming from someone who thought he sucked watching him on WAS, and was not in the least bit interested in the announcement he'd be in camp with us. I think there's something worth looking at there for development potential at 21.

I'd put money on it being Bonga over Dekker, at least that's how obvious it seems to me.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Svi shoots just as well as Dekker, but with more ability to put it on the floor and finish/create, and Svi's defense and effort are solid. Dekker may be a good shooter but on defense he's just not there for what we need. I'd keep Bonga, really like what I've seen and heard from him so far.

what if Svi gets hurt?

Bonga is a worst version of all our best players and we have many of them.

Dekker can't cut it on D anyway, like Matt Thomas couldn't.

Bonga has looked good in our system on both ends from where I sit. 6'8, plays under control, executes. I agree he could be compared to the new McCaw, not a direct comp but as a guy you want to take a look at because they can defend and show up learning the system quickly.

This is coming from someone who thought he sucked watching him on WAS, and was not in the least bit interested in the announcement he'd be in camp with us. I think there's something worth looking at there for development potential at 21.

I'd put money on it being Bonga over Dekker, at least that's how obvious it seems to me.

Eh this team looks like it might be bad in the half court so this instant offense is probably more suited for the 15th guy than overlap of the same guys we already have. No one on this team can generate enough offense like Dekker it seems.

If we have to play Bonga, this team is either losing really badly or playing really well. His lack of offense is kinda meh for a 15th guy. And he didn’t impress me that much. Same goes for Dekker but at least Dekker can get them back in the game from what we witnessed. He’s got more experience overall.


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[JYD]

Don't think we'd be playing either, but again, 6'8, 21, fairly well rounded. He needs further development but there's potential.

And he has a chance, because again, he seems to have adapted to how we want to play on both ends very quickly. And getting Nurse's approval is the big hurdle (reasons we kept lesser talents like Thomas and McCaw around to see if we could develop them into regulars).

[dgr81]

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