ImageImage

ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins

Moderators: paulpressey25, MickeyDavis

User avatar
giannis and 1
Starter
Posts: 2,359
And1: 1,175
Joined: Jan 06, 2019
Location: Vancouver, BC
       

Re: ATL - Preseason Begins 

Post#841 » by giannis and 1 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:09 am

Milbucks96 wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:American basketball is overdue to produce a legit superstar to the calibre of Kobe/Shaq/Lebron/KD
I thought Zion might have a chance but he looks less likely everyday

The nba needs one quick. Outside of Lebron, Steph, KD, nobody else brings in the big views/ratings and those guys are all pretty old in nba years. Giannis, Luka, Jokic all seem to be more in the Duncan, Dirk, KG molds. All time great talents with legit star power but not face of the league material.

Zion like you said was on the way, bringing in some impressive numbers by himself but injuries and losing made people drop him completely.

You're crazy if you don't think Giannis is in the same tier as KD/Lebron.
still learning the game

Matches Malone wrote:How did NBA fandom get to the point that it's more fun to thirst over players on other teams than to care more about your own team and players...
User avatar
giannis and 1
Starter
Posts: 2,359
And1: 1,175
Joined: Jan 06, 2019
Location: Vancouver, BC
       

Re: ATL - Preseason Begins 

Post#842 » by giannis and 1 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:12 am

BroncoBuck wrote:
Ayt wrote:
BroncoBuck wrote:I think that Wendell Carter deal is going to be a bad contract. Smart dude, I just don’t see it in him. His height is one of the biggest lies in the NBA. He’s actually like 6’7”, maybe 6’8”. He seems destined to be a journeyman big, Hammond giving him a 4/50 deal is par for the course (Gooden, Henson, Plumlee) and it’s truly incredible to see him pull it off once more.


He measured 6′ 8.75" barefoot at the combine which seems right to me by the eye test. That's the same height Bam measured out at.


That was the year prior to the NBA cracking down on these measurements. They went back and changed Carter’s height to 6’9” now, so his true height barefoot is much closer to 6’7”. Durant measured 6’9” at the combine and that is the biggest lie in the NBA lol. I saw Carter and Bagley at Summer League his rookie year and couldn’t believe how short Carter was. I had John Brockman flashbacks lol.

When they measured KD's height the year that they began cracking down on those measurements, he went from being listed at 6'9 to 6'10.5 iirc. KD being a true 7 footer has always been a myth.

Technically, Giannis isn't a true 7 footer either. He is 6'11.75.
still learning the game

Matches Malone wrote:How did NBA fandom get to the point that it's more fun to thirst over players on other teams than to care more about your own team and players...
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 62,581
And1: 29,638
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#843 » by paulpressey25 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:19 am

Giannis is over 7 feet. Seen him multiple times up close, and next to other players for reference. Believe most years he’s been the tallest guy on the team. For some psychological reason they try to keep those guys listed under 7 feet.
In depth discussions here - shorter stuff on Twitter

https://twitter.com/paulpressey25
Milbucks96
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,350
And1: 2,717
Joined: Mar 10, 2019
   

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#844 » by Milbucks96 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:14 am

Pachinko_ wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:
Wonka wrote:I truly hope somebody picks Jabari up and he carves out a role for himself

I think he might be done and it’s sad honestly. I know half of it’s his fault for not caring much about defense but if he didn’t tear his knee twice I feel he would still have a sane Michael Beasley role off the bench for somebody.

I think there is a structural problem in US basketball.
You look at top prospects of the past coming out of the system, from MJ to Lebron/KD/Shaq/Kobe/KG etc, they all had a different approach towards defense. But none of them, not a single one, would allow themselves to be horrible on D when it mattered. They all had great D in their pocket and brought it as often as they wanted. Which was A LOT.

How is it that what came after them, the Zion/Jabari/Wiggins/KAT/Trae etc of this world are so clueless on D?
It really feels like sometime in early 2000 the youth coaches collectively said don't worry about that, just focus on making buckets. And you know what? they were right, each and every one of those guys either got paid or is in the process of getting paid. And nobody really thinks there is a problem with prospects coming out of the US system, it's all BAU. I do, but who cares.

It’s still blue chip prospects that come out of high school and college that play both sides. For every Kat, Zion, Jabari(Wiggins is Canadian and came over to the us halfway through high school), there are the Anthony Davis, Tatum, Paul George, Kawhi types that are positives on both sides. And It would be wrong to ignore all the guys like Marcus smart, nerlins Noel, Myles turner, Avery Bradley, Kidd-gilcrest etc that were all highly ranked and drafted purely for their defenses coming out the us/Aau system. You still have guys getting drafted in the top 5 for their defensive ability.

I honestly don’t see a problem with the structure or system of youth basketball in America as far as development goes.
User avatar
Pachinko_
RealGM
Posts: 20,693
And1: 23,985
Joined: Jun 13, 2016
 

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#845 » by Pachinko_ » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:20 am

Milbucks96 wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:I think he might be done and it’s sad honestly. I know half of it’s his fault for not caring much about defense but if he didn’t tear his knee twice I feel he would still have a sane Michael Beasley role off the bench for somebody.

I think there is a structural problem in US basketball.
You look at top prospects of the past coming out of the system, from MJ to Lebron/KD/Shaq/Kobe/KG etc, they all had a different approach towards defense. But none of them, not a single one, would allow themselves to be horrible on D when it mattered. They all had great D in their pocket and brought it as often as they wanted. Which was A LOT.

How is it that what came after them, the Zion/Jabari/Wiggins/KAT/Trae etc of this world are so clueless on D?
It really feels like sometime in early 2000 the youth coaches collectively said don't worry about that, just focus on making buckets. And you know what? they were right, each and every one of those guys either got paid or is in the process of getting paid. And nobody really thinks there is a problem with prospects coming out of the US system, it's all BAU. I do, but who cares.

It’s still blue chip prospects that come out of high school and college that play both sides. For every Kat, Zion, Jabari(Wiggins is Canadian and came over to the us halfway through high school), there are the Anthony Davis, Tatum, Paul George, Kawhi types that are positives on both sides. And It would be wrong to ignore all the guys like Marcus smart, nerlins Noel, Myles turner, Avery Bradley, Kidd-gilcrest etc that were all highly ranked and drafted purely for their defenses coming out the us/Aau system. You still have guys getting drafted in the top 5 for their defensive ability.

I honestly don’t see a problem with the structure or system of youth basketball in America as far as development goes.

Yes there are great defenders coming through the draft, but I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the guys like Zion/Jabari/Wiggins who are the top hyped stars and know from a young age they're going to the top of the draft. The successors of the Lebron/KD/Shaq prospects. I mean I don't think anyone would ever tell 16 year old Kawhi you'll be fine without defence, but it does seem someone might have told Jabari.

I should probably leave the bigs out of the discussion because they're all about D anyway.
Milbucks96
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,350
And1: 2,717
Joined: Mar 10, 2019
   

Re: ATL - Preseason Begins 

Post#846 » by Milbucks96 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:31 am

giannis and 1 wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:American basketball is overdue to produce a legit superstar to the calibre of Kobe/Shaq/Lebron/KD
I thought Zion might have a chance but he looks less likely everyday

The nba needs one quick. Outside of Lebron, Steph, KD, nobody else brings in the big views/ratings and those guys are all pretty old in nba years. Giannis, Luka, Jokic all seem to be more in the Duncan, Dirk, KG molds. All time great talents with legit star power but not face of the league material.

Zion like you said was on the way, bringing in some impressive numbers by himself but injuries and losing made people drop him completely.

You're crazy if you don't think Giannis is in the same tier as KD/Lebron.

I should’ve said so but I meant in terms of popularity and wasn’t factoring on court stuff at all. I just meant the nba needs to find it’s next “face” of the league. Lebron, Steph and to a smaller degree KD are carrying the league in terms of casual and non nba fan interest, and when those three aren’t involved, overall interest suffers a lot.

When it comes to pure basketball, Giannis is for sure in the same tier as KD and lebron.
User avatar
ReasonablySober
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 108,070
And1: 42,320
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
Contact:

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#847 » by ReasonablySober » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:39 pm

Read on Twitter


Wowza.
User avatar
Ron Swanson
RealGM
Posts: 25,726
And1: 29,558
Joined: May 15, 2013

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#848 » by Ron Swanson » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:57 pm

That's a hell of a bargain if Jackson can stay healthy and live up to even half of his potential.
Licensed to Il
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,630
And1: 3,206
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
 

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#849 » by Licensed to Il » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:01 pm

Griz are going to be a fun league pass watch this year.
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 24,538
And1: 20,241
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#850 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:05 pm

Pachinko_ wrote:
Milbucks96 wrote:
Pachinko_ wrote:I think there is a structural problem in US basketball.
You look at top prospects of the past coming out of the system, from MJ to Lebron/KD/Shaq/Kobe/KG etc, they all had a different approach towards defense. But none of them, not a single one, would allow themselves to be horrible on D when it mattered. They all had great D in their pocket and brought it as often as they wanted. Which was A LOT.

How is it that what came after them, the Zion/Jabari/Wiggins/KAT/Trae etc of this world are so clueless on D?
It really feels like sometime in early 2000 the youth coaches collectively said don't worry about that, just focus on making buckets. And you know what? they were right, each and every one of those guys either got paid or is in the process of getting paid. And nobody really thinks there is a problem with prospects coming out of the US system, it's all BAU. I do, but who cares.

It’s still blue chip prospects that come out of high school and college that play both sides. For every Kat, Zion, Jabari(Wiggins is Canadian and came over to the us halfway through high school), there are the Anthony Davis, Tatum, Paul George, Kawhi types that are positives on both sides. And It would be wrong to ignore all the guys like Marcus smart, nerlins Noel, Myles turner, Avery Bradley, Kidd-gilcrest etc that were all highly ranked and drafted purely for their defenses coming out the us/Aau system. You still have guys getting drafted in the top 5 for their defensive ability.

I honestly don’t see a problem with the structure or system of youth basketball in America as far as development goes.

Yes there are great defenders coming through the draft, but I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the guys like Zion/Jabari/Wiggins who are the top hyped stars and know from a young age they're going to the top of the draft. The successors of the Lebron/KD/Shaq prospects. I mean I don't think anyone would ever tell 16 year old Kawhi you'll be fine without defence, but it does seem someone might have told Jabari.

I should probably leave the bigs out of the discussion because they're all about D anyway.
I think one reason young players struggle on D is the scemes are more complex now than any other time in basketball history.

Now the three guys you mentioned all are kind of unique in the why they haven't been good defenders. With Jabari there was always questions about what position he could actually guard and I guess the answer turned out to be no one. The knee injuries certainly didn't help but he might just be one of those guys who can't defend. Zion was good on D in college and still shows flashes but as a pro he just hasn't really tried (injuries and conditioning are a factor). Wiggins, who the hell knows. He was supposed to be good on D and has the physical tools but for whatever reason it's never translated.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
H2tObes
RealGM
Posts: 19,562
And1: 10,022
Joined: Oct 18, 2012

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#851 » by H2tObes » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:13 pm

Bit of a dice roll for Memphis, JJJ isn''t very good but he has youth on his side
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 24,538
And1: 20,241
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#852 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:14 pm

The JJJ deal is fine and a bet that he can stay healthy and develops.

I LOVED him as a prospect but honestly I'm less high on him now. Still think he can be a very good player but the fouling and lack of rebounding is a real issue that's been a problem with him forever. Those hurt if you're a C and if because of that you need to play him with a C I think that reduces his value a little. I think defensive metrics are kind of flawed and don't put a ton of value in them but it's at least a little troubling that he grades out so medicore/poorly on them.

Again totally fine with Memphis giving him that contract and it could turn out a steal but I just kind of think the idea of JJJ is a little better than the reality of JJJ right now.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.
User avatar
Ron Swanson
RealGM
Posts: 25,726
And1: 29,558
Joined: May 15, 2013

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#853 » by Ron Swanson » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:28 pm

Their young core is too good at this point to tank, so investing in him at anything less than the max is a no-brainer. They won't ever be contenders if JJJ doesn't take a leap anyways, plus they'll still have a bunch of cap room until Ja's extension to add a free agent piece in either 2022 or 2023.
User avatar
MickeyDavis
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 103,614
And1: 55,910
Joined: May 02, 2002
Location: The Craps Table
     

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#854 » by MickeyDavis » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:59 pm

Read on Twitter
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
User avatar
MickeyDavis
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 103,614
And1: 55,910
Joined: May 02, 2002
Location: The Craps Table
     

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#855 » by MickeyDavis » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:14 pm

Read on Twitter
I'm against picketing but I don't know how to show it.
Milbucks96
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,350
And1: 2,717
Joined: Mar 10, 2019
   

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#856 » by Milbucks96 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:42 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
Read on Twitter

That’s great security for Malcolm who is a little older and pretty injury prone. Also a decent deal for Indy. If they could get him to be more of a secondary ball handler and have him guard wings instead of guards I think he could out perform that contract in the next couple years.
User avatar
Turk Nowitzki
RealGM
Posts: 34,495
And1: 11,521
Joined: Feb 26, 2010
Location: on the Hellmouth
     

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#857 » by Turk Nowitzki » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:44 pm

MickeyDavis wrote:
Read on Twitter

Takes him out of play for awhile in any potential Ben Simmons deal.
User avatar
emunney
RealGM
Posts: 62,924
And1: 41,312
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Location: where takes go to be pampered

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#858 » by emunney » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:56 pm

Taking forever. I wonder if ours was short because we cooperated (and maybe we shouldn't have). We'll see how this shakes out.

Read on Twitter
Here are more legal notices regarding the Posts
User avatar
emunney
RealGM
Posts: 62,924
And1: 41,312
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Location: where takes go to be pampered

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#859 » by emunney » Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:57 pm

ReasonablySober wrote:
Read on Twitter


Wowza.


"One of the league's best young big men", must be a long ass list.
Here are more legal notices regarding the Posts
WeekapaugGroove
RealGM
Posts: 24,538
And1: 20,241
Joined: Feb 07, 2010

Re: ATL - 2021-22 Regular Season Begins 

Post#860 » by WeekapaugGroove » Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:28 pm

Simmons seems very engaged :)

Read on Twitter
?t=O32V-WzQeZvP5YjCEoAkXQ&s=19

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming Wow! What a Ride!-H.S.T.

Return to Milwaukee Bucks