8305 wrote:He is the X factor to the season. As long as he can’t go team is a little more tied to a lineup that pairs Turner and Sabonis.
I agree he's an X factor but disagree about him playing at the 4.
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8305 wrote:He is the X factor to the season. As long as he can’t go team is a little more tied to a lineup that pairs Turner and Sabonis.
8305 wrote: As long as he can’t go team is a little more tied to a lineup that pairs Turner and Sabonis. I have seen no evidence that this will work any better than in the past.
Topofthekey wrote:8305 wrote:He is the X factor to the season. As long as he can’t go team is a little more tied to a lineup that pairs Turner and Sabonis. I have seen no evidence that this will work any better than in the past. When the the Sabonis/Turner pairing is off the floor it’s either Jackson (19 year old rookie) or Brissett (unimpressive in summer league and pre season).
How long till he can play and how long till he is in plying shape? We could be half way through the season before we see any sembelence of the guy we remember.
Can you elaborate a little bit more on why you think the Myles and Domas pairing doesn't work?
I haven't watched the team extensively this season, but from what I can gather from watching clips here and there, they don't stand out as a problen to me
8305 wrote:Watching the Memphis game Pacers were playing subs. Even in those circumstances there was no competitive advantage delivered by the Turner/Sabonis pairing. Things improved in this game when Turner left the floor and Brissett was subbed in. Struck me as the same old same old. Pairing these two together exposes Sabonis biggest weakness as a defender and limits Turner offensively.
Topofthekey wrote:8305 wrote:Watching the Memphis game Pacers were playing subs. Even in those circumstances there was no competitive advantage delivered by the Turner/Sabonis pairing. Things improved in this game when Turner left the floor and Brissett was subbed in. Struck me as the same old same old. Pairing these two together exposes Sabonis biggest weakness as a defender and limits Turner offensively.
Who between them would you trade?
Who or what would you trade him for?
8305 wrote:Topofthekey wrote:8305 wrote:Watching the Memphis game Pacers were playing subs. Even in those circumstances there was no competitive advantage delivered by the Turner/Sabonis pairing. Things improved in this game when Turner left the floor and Brissett was subbed in. Struck me as the same old same old. Pairing these two together exposes Sabonis biggest weakness as a defender and limits Turner offensively.
Who between them would you trade?
Who or what would you trade him for?
I've bounced back and forth on the question of which one to trade. Pre draft I was leaning Sabonis but after seeing Duarte and Jackson (I think both of these guys look like they could be really good complimentary players to Sabonis) I'd say Turner is the one to move.
I think most of us agree that Turner is the easier on to trade. A decent straight up move that's strikes me reasonable value to both teams is:
Myles Turner for Jerami Grant.
8305 wrote:I think most of us agree that Turner is the easier on to trade.
A decent straight up move that's strikes me reasonable value to both teams is:
Myles Turner for Jerami Grant.
Scoot McGroot wrote:I LOVE Turner. As a player and as a person. But, I would probably be ok with moving him, seeing as how I think that Goga/Jackson could somewhat reasonably replace his rim protection and overall defense.
Topofthekey wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:I LOVE Turner. As a player and as a person. But, I would probably be ok with moving him, seeing as how I think that Goga/Jackson could somewhat reasonably replace his rim protection and overall defense.
This is my sentiment as well
On court, the time has probably come to explore a trade for Myles, contingent on the continued development of Goga and Jackson
It's the off court part that makes me reluctant to trade Myles. To me, he's the best Pacer currently, by a wide margin. If they do trade him, I hope they either trade him to the Mavericks (it's home for him?) or to the Warriors where he'll get a good shot at winning a title with them
Scoot McGroot wrote:8305 wrote:Topofthekey wrote:Who between them would you trade?
Who or what would you trade him for?
I've bounced back and forth on the question of which one to trade. Pre draft I was leaning Sabonis but after seeing Duarte and Jackson (I think both of these guys look like they could be really good complimentary players to Sabonis) I'd say Turner is the one to move.
I think most of us agree that Turner is the easier on to trade. A decent straight up move that's strikes me reasonable value to both teams is:
Myles Turner for Jerami Grant.
Take a look at Jerami Grant's splits last year. He started out really hot for about 15-20 games, and then as the season went on, he took the ball more (his usage rate skyrocketed) and he got WILDLY inefficient. His defense also suffered greatly as his usage skyrocketed. He had a hot streak to start the season last year that we all remember, but we didn't notice how he played pretty poorly overall (when accounting for efficiency and defense) over the whole season on average. He got a ton of shots, because they had no one else to take any last year, and he largely did little with them, on average.
And, if you swap those guys straight up, you'd put Indy within $1m of the luxury tax again, meaning Warren or Sabonis bonuses would put us into the tax. I don't see it as a terribly good deal for Indy, other than buying high on a guy that may be a more natural PF, but a much lesser player.
I LOVE Turner. As a player and as a person. But, I would probably be ok with moving him, seeing as how I think that Goga/Jackson could somewhat reasonably replace his rim protection and overall defense.
8305 wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:8305 wrote:
I've bounced back and forth on the question of which one to trade. Pre draft I was leaning Sabonis but after seeing Duarte and Jackson (I think both of these guys look like they could be really good complimentary players to Sabonis) I'd say Turner is the one to move.
I think most of us agree that Turner is the easier on to trade. A decent straight up move that's strikes me reasonable value to both teams is:
Myles Turner for Jerami Grant.
Take a look at Jerami Grant's splits last year. He started out really hot for about 15-20 games, and then as the season went on, he took the ball more (his usage rate skyrocketed) and he got WILDLY inefficient. His defense also suffered greatly as his usage skyrocketed. He had a hot streak to start the season last year that we all remember, but we didn't notice how he played pretty poorly overall (when accounting for efficiency and defense) over the whole season on average. He got a ton of shots, because they had no one else to take any last year, and he largely did little with them, on average.
And, if you swap those guys straight up, you'd put Indy within $1m of the luxury tax again, meaning Warren or Sabonis bonuses would put us into the tax. I don't see it as a terribly good deal for Indy, other than buying high on a guy that may be a more natural PF, but a much lesser player.
I LOVE Turner. As a player and as a person. But, I would probably be ok with moving him, seeing as how I think that Goga/Jackson could somewhat reasonably replace his rim protection and overall defense.
I agree Grant is not a high usage guy. He wouldn’t be that here. Myles is a rim protector Grant is not. But Grant would mesh with Sabonis better. I’d contend we would be a better defensive team Sabonis at the five and good on ball defenders around him than we are with Turner at the five and Sabonis defending the perimeter. On offense they both would largely be stretch guys. Not much change subbing one for the other.
Scoot McGroot wrote:8305 wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:
Take a look at Jerami Grant's splits last year. He started out really hot for about 15-20 games, and then as the season went on, he took the ball more (his usage rate skyrocketed) and he got WILDLY inefficient. His defense also suffered greatly as his usage skyrocketed. He had a hot streak to start the season last year that we all remember, but we didn't notice how he played pretty poorly overall (when accounting for efficiency and defense) over the whole season on average. He got a ton of shots, because they had no one else to take any last year, and he largely did little with them, on average.
And, if you swap those guys straight up, you'd put Indy within $1m of the luxury tax again, meaning Warren or Sabonis bonuses would put us into the tax. I don't see it as a terribly good deal for Indy, other than buying high on a guy that may be a more natural PF, but a much lesser player.
I LOVE Turner. As a player and as a person. But, I would probably be ok with moving him, seeing as how I think that Goga/Jackson could somewhat reasonably replace his rim protection and overall defense.
I agree Grant is not a high usage guy. He wouldn’t be that here. Myles is a rim protector Grant is not. But Grant would mesh with Sabonis better. I’d contend we would be a better defensive team Sabonis at the five and good on ball defenders around him than we are with Turner at the five and Sabonis defending the perimeter. On offense they both would largely be stretch guys. Not much change subbing one for the other.
So, turn Grant back into the low usage, 25-30 minute per game guy that was asked to focus on defense only and put up around 14/5/1/1/1? Basically, a lesser player than Turner, but maybe better fit, and more expensive? I can live with that swap, but you should make sure you get paid with other assets for downgrading, getting older, and getting more expensive.
Scoot McGroot wrote:8305 wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:
Take a look at Jerami Grant's splits last year. He started out really hot for about 15-20 games, and then as the season went on, he took the ball more (his usage rate skyrocketed) and he got WILDLY inefficient. His defense also suffered greatly as his usage skyrocketed. He had a hot streak to start the season last year that we all remember, but we didn't notice how he played pretty poorly overall (when accounting for efficiency and defense) over the whole season on average. He got a ton of shots, because they had no one else to take any last year, and he largely did little with them, on average.
And, if you swap those guys straight up, you'd put Indy within $1m of the luxury tax again, meaning Warren or Sabonis bonuses would put us into the tax. I don't see it as a terribly good deal for Indy, other than buying high on a guy that may be a more natural PF, but a much lesser player.
I LOVE Turner. As a player and as a person. But, I would probably be ok with moving him, seeing as how I think that Goga/Jackson could somewhat reasonably replace his rim protection and overall defense.
I agree Grant is not a high usage guy. He wouldn’t be that here. Myles is a rim protector Grant is not. But Grant would mesh with Sabonis better. I’d contend we would be a better defensive team Sabonis at the five and good on ball defenders around him than we are with Turner at the five and Sabonis defending the perimeter. On offense they both would largely be stretch guys. Not much change subbing one for the other.
So, turn Grant back into the low usage, 25-30 minute per game guy that was asked to focus on defense only and put up around 14/5/1/1/1? Basically, a lesser player than Turner, but maybe better fit, and more expensive? I can live with that swap, but you should make sure you get paid with other assets for downgrading, getting older, and getting more expensive.
8305 wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:8305 wrote:
I agree Grant is not a high usage guy. He wouldn’t be that here. Myles is a rim protector Grant is not. But Grant would mesh with Sabonis better. I’d contend we would be a better defensive team Sabonis at the five and good on ball defenders around him than we are with Turner at the five and Sabonis defending the perimeter. On offense they both would largely be stretch guys. Not much change subbing one for the other.
So, turn Grant back into the low usage, 25-30 minute per game guy that was asked to focus on defense only and put up around 14/5/1/1/1? Basically, a lesser player than Turner, but maybe better fit, and more expensive? I can live with that swap, but you should make sure you get paid with other assets for downgrading, getting older, and getting more expensive.
A better fit could be played more minutes. Look at the minutes Thad got.
They love this guy in Detroit. I doubt you get a lot more than him in return for Turner. As for the age difference I see little chance of resigning Turner if we are using him as a spot player. Which i think is what you see for him.
8305 wrote:As for the age difference I see little chance of resigning Turner if we are using him as a spot player. Which i think is what you see for him.
Scoot McGroot wrote:8305 wrote:Scoot McGroot wrote:
So, turn Grant back into the low usage, 25-30 minute per game guy that was asked to focus on defense only and put up around 14/5/1/1/1? Basically, a lesser player than Turner, but maybe better fit, and more expensive? I can live with that swap, but you should make sure you get paid with other assets for downgrading, getting older, and getting more expensive.
A better fit could be played more minutes. Look at the minutes Thad got.
Thad played 30-32 minutes per night in Indy. Myles plays an average of 29.7 minutes per night in his Indy career (minus his rookie year when guys generally don't play a lot because they're rookies). It's largely the same. I don't think there's an argument that a better fit could be played more minutes. It's already being done.
They love this guy in Detroit. I doubt you get a lot more than him in return for Turner. As for the age difference I see little chance of resigning Turner if we are using him as a spot player. Which i think is what you see for him.
They love him in Detroit because he wanted to sign there since they had a black coach and a black GM, and they offered to run the offense through him. None of that would be the case in Indy. If you take a look at the Trade Forum when this was suggested (by you? or someone else?) in the last couple weeks, there was a bit of a shock there, and the belief that Turner was simply worth much more than Grant.
Again, I like Grant. I wanted him a lot before last year (and before I thought he'd take $20+m per year to sign). But the hot shooting, efficient player that he was in the first 15-20 games last year is not who he really is.